We've been starved of quality midfielders who aren't called Michael Carrick for so long that we no longer remember what they actually do or how does it feel to have one.
So we didn't sign a central midfielder
- Thread starter charlenefan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
We've been starved of quality midfielders who aren't called Michael Carrick for so long that we no longer remember what they actually do or how does it feel to have one.
That's Twigg for you. Everyone can clearly see Jones shows much more potential at CB, even if he has his bad moments (who doesn't at the age of 19 or 20?), and he can barely do anything other than run after a certain player and prevent him from playing football in midfield, yet he'll come here and try to convince everyone that he's impressed with him in midfield and uncomfortable in defence. Twigg's best moment last season was him telling everyone that he was disappointed with Jones at CB when everyone was raving about him after he'd just put in a great performance there against City. He could play the worst game ever in midfield and Twigg would be impressed though.
Yup, Twigg's main problem isn't that he's too positive about our midfield, it's that he'll look for any possible means to defend it and make it look like there's nothing wrong with it, no matter how little sense it makes, in order to try and prove his point. Oh, it doesn't help that he thinks anyone who is critical of our midfield is completely negative of our entire club and apparently thinks we'll never win anything, and thus he looks great and they look like tits when we do, apparently.
All I can remember of him against City last year is letting Aguero score. Phil Jones has played more games in his professional career in midfield and defence, and yet it's bizarre that I think he'll be a midfielder.
This was his best time in a United shirt.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/dec/18/phil-jones-manchester-united
When he was fantastic in midfield.
Then there was the run last year as well:
When selected in the centre at Tottenham Hotspur, it was seen as a ploy to stop Gareth Bale. When he was chosen in midfield against Everton in February, it was as Marouane Fellaini's man-marker. Very different tasks were executed admirably.
For the most intimidating game of the season, when the defensive midfielder's duties were complicated by the presence of the elusive Mesut Ozil and the irrepressible Cristiano Ronaldo, he started against Real Madrid in the Bernabeu and enhanced his reputation. But for an ankle injury, it is a role he would surely have reprised in the second leg.
A further indication of Jones's importance came at Stamford Bridge last Monday. When the team sheets arrived, it was assumed he was starting at right-back. Instead, he returned to the midfield, with the winger Antonio Valencia standing in at full-back in the reshuffle. With Chelsea's trio of playmakers - Juan Mata, Eden Hazard and Oscar - converging in the middle, the greater priority was solidity in the centre. Despite defeat, Jones provided it. He and Valencia were two to escape criticism from Ferguson.
So yeah I really do think he's fine in midfield. I think he's got all the tools to be a good defensive midfielder considering some of the fantastic performances he's put in there. Indeed I think his driving runs and good attacking play is rather neutered at the back where I don't think he's at his best no.
Phil Neville is at our club now and he's compared him to Roy Keane. I see no reason he can't go on to have a similar sort of playing style.
This was his best time in a United shirt.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/dec/18/phil-jones-manchester-united
When he was fantastic in midfield.
Then there was the run last year as well:
When selected in the centre at Tottenham Hotspur, it was seen as a ploy to stop Gareth Bale. When he was chosen in midfield against Everton in February, it was as Marouane Fellaini's man-marker. Very different tasks were executed admirably.
For the most intimidating game of the season, when the defensive midfielder's duties were complicated by the presence of the elusive Mesut Ozil and the irrepressible Cristiano Ronaldo, he started against Real Madrid in the Bernabeu and enhanced his reputation. But for an ankle injury, it is a role he would surely have reprised in the second leg.
A further indication of Jones's importance came at Stamford Bridge last Monday. When the team sheets arrived, it was assumed he was starting at right-back. Instead, he returned to the midfield, with the winger Antonio Valencia standing in at full-back in the reshuffle. With Chelsea's trio of playmakers - Juan Mata, Eden Hazard and Oscar - converging in the middle, the greater priority was solidity in the centre. Despite defeat, Jones provided it. He and Valencia were two to escape criticism from Ferguson.
So yeah I really do think he's fine in midfield. I think he's got all the tools to be a good defensive midfielder considering some of the fantastic performances he's put in there. Indeed I think his driving runs and good attacking play is rather neutered at the back where I don't think he's at his best no.
Phil Neville is at our club now and he's compared him to Roy Keane. I see no reason he can't go on to have a similar sort of playing style.
When you have people being completely negative about the club after our recent success it does completely boggle the mind yes.
And if they're negative about the club after a period of little success you'll still moan at them
Lose-lose.You'll be proven wrong. He's a really average midfielder. Sort of what happens when, you know, you put a centre back in midfield.
He was never ever fantastic in midfield, decent was about as good as he ever got. If you weren't so insistent on being ultra positive about our midfield you'd have noticed.
His lack of minutes in defence doesn't mean much when we have Vidic, Ferdinand and Evans ahead of him while we have virtually no midfielders who can do any defensive work apart from Carrick. O'Shea probably played more in midfield for us than defence from 2004 onwards, it doesn't make him a good midfielder.
And if they're negative about the club after a period of little success you'll still moan at them
Well that's all hypothetical for now.
Surprises me that, with Rio and Vidic at cb, Jones gets picked for midfield. Evans is a far more accomplished footballer, and yet, to the best of my knowledge, he's never played there for us.
I like Twigg's unflappable optimism, but we really do desperately need another midfielder. Jones is no midfielder.
Decent was as good as he got? Around this time he was constantly man of the match. Same as against Madrid. Same as against Tottenham..
Some people have short memories.
But I'm not being negative about the club, I'm being critical of our midfield, there's a massive difference. me saying "I don't think our midfield is good enough" does not equate to the overall opinion that I think our club as a whole is shite and we won't win anything.
Good.
It's all true but he does have a point, sort of. Jones' supposedly great potential at CB is something we haven't really seen yet. He had the odd good game there but both Smalling and Evans performed far better there than him. I do believe and trust Fergie when he says Jones is a future CB but so far he hasn't really shown a lot of that potential.
He's definitely not a midfielder though, that's for sure. It's just he never really shined in any position yet.
He wasn't even close to MotM against Madrid and Spurs and offered little going forward. He does fine as a fifth defender basically, stuck to prevent players like Bale or Ronaldo from playing football but offers little otherwise.
Jones is more mobile and has more energy plus he'd played Premier League games there before signing for us.
I'll try find one, I just remember Graham Hunter on the radio during the summer revealing that senior figures at United were disappointed at the scout's return in reports and that they'd encouraged Moyes to bring his own system from Everton.
Thing is, Jones tackling and energy make him a decent destroyer in midfield for a team that plays with 3 midfielders. He doesn't have the awareness to be a defensive midfielder in a midfield two nor does he have the creativity and enough ability on the be ball to be a box to box midfielder. He could probably do a decent job there from time to time as proven by his performances against Madrid and Spurs (although they weren't really as spectacular as Twigg wants us to think) but he will never be a top class midfielder, there's just no chance of this happening.
I said it before on numerous occasions - we can either turn Jones into a world class centre half or an average midfielder. Play him in midfield more than in defence for next two seasons and any chance of becoming a truly class centre half he may have had will be gone though.
please do.
I've read an article about Everton's scouting system and i was very impressed. On the other hand i was also convinced that our scouts were very good.
Jones did a great man marking job but it severely limited our midfield play. Against Madrid he can barely even be classified as having played in midfield. He was basically an extra defender.
If football was a 12-a-side game then he'd probably find himself a position in that role full time.
An underwhelming end to the six-year wait. A player who's at his best as a target man behind the main striker.
Squad player.that al he is.
£27.5m. Unbelievable.
We waited 6 years but we did. But he's not going to change the world.
Is he feck
He's instantly our second best midfielder. You don't think he's better than Cleverley?
Fellaini is certainly no Fabregas, but he's a good enough signing and definitely improves us.
I hope to God that unless Carrick is rested/ injured i dont see Mop Man anywhere near starting xi
Allows Cleverley the breathing space of developing in the number 10 role or the creative outlet of a 4-3-3 midfield. As far as versatility goes it was the right signing. We have a few players who can hold down the number 10 spot and bringing in a 10 would have completely upset the balance.
I look forward to seeing; (If and while Rooney or Kagawa are injured)
-Ba------ck------Fo-----ur--
-----Carrick------Fellaini-----
-----------Cleverley---------
--Winger--------------Winger
-------------RVP
Of course that leaves Rooney, Kagawa, Cleverley and Fellaini to play in the role ahead of the two that sit. With also more deputies. It was the right balance signing imo. Of course the pecking order resets if either Rooney and Kagawa are fit and Cleverley misses out.
Some of you are fecking idiots.
Fellaini isn't a world class player, but he's an effective one. We don't really sign world class players - we make them. Fellaini will become a beast for us in the midfield - I just know it.
At least give the guy a fecking chance.
Fellaini isn't a world class player, but he's an effective one. We don't really sign world class players - we make them. Fellaini will become a beast for us in the midfield - I just know it.
At least give the guy a fecking chance.
Still waiting.....
we did not sign one coz those we want turn us down or we think too expensive. it is silly to just insist not paying a few millions more
Finally we get a CM.
Hear Hear!
I bet a fair few were underwhelmed when we only signed Carrick in 2006!
Bravo, we've just signed a beast in midfield with decent technique as well and people are writing him off because of his haircut (or.lack thereof), the layman's or rival fans' simplistic perception of him or just because he isn't the star name that was promised.
Time to close this thread,we have that midfielder , although by the sounds of it some wished we hadn't.
Many were. I remember a fair few balking at the fee and a similar phenomenon occurring (too expensive, decent but nothing great, etc, with only a few connaisseurs recognizing he is quite good).