You could be nice and give us one or two of your midfielders...
So we didn't sign a central midfielder
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
You could be nice and give us one or two of your midfielders...
Well appearantly Woodward is stuck on a plane flight between England and Germany for two days or so. Maybe he tries to test Dortmund with a 20Mil € bid for Gündogan
Wait if it's simply not good enough how the hell did we manage to fluke the prem and do so well against Real last year?
I hate our obsession with buying utility players, who end up not excelling in any position because they get shunted all round the team. Jones is a CB, but poor lad gets moved from one position to another, week to week. How is he ever going to get established at CB.
Because if City hadn't had so many issues and Chelsea had Jose in charge, like they have now, it might have been a different story. People seem to have short memories, all they did last season was moan about the midfield. Yes we won and it was great, but I think we are over estimating the talent of some of our players. Would we have won it without RVP? That was the big reason we won, not the midfield.
That's not what he said, he said that we have a great CM in Carrick who is what stopped our midfield from being a weakness for (most of) last season. The problem is that without him, it goes to shit, and if he was to get injured, we'd be in a lot of trouble there.
It also helped that our challengers last season were a shadow of the team they were the year before.
For God's sake, why are you discussing with Twigg for our midfield. He has been saying for a long time that we have great midfielders and until recently he opposed the idea of signing a midfielder.
Don't worry Revan, he'll finally crumble some day, after all, now that our manager and club and basically everyone else who exists on the planet have embraced the fact that we do need a midfielder and it's lacking compared to most of our team, he'll have to embrace it soon.
In one sentence? Because Carrick managed to play 3044 minutes (nearly 35 full games) consistently strong football in EPL as well as starring in every single important match in the CL and dometstic cups. If you can take such a season for granted, then good for you.
I don't get how people don't see that we are an injury to Carrick away from disaster. If Carrick gets injured we are fecked, forget the title, we would find difficult to finish third. Add to that that our second best midfielder (Cleverley) isn't as good as to command a place in midfield and wouldn't be even in the bench of the likes of Barca, Madrid and Bayern.
I think he does see it, he's just a wee bit stubborn is all, and has been making this argument about our midfield for the last three to four years.
WOW, that was a lot of IFs. IF we didn't have RVP, IF Chelsea had Mourinho, IF City had played better. So IF Rio, Evra and Carrick had been injured all last season and Liverpool actually were as good as their supporters claim they are, they would have won the league and United would be close to relegation.
Quite a stupid argument, if you don't mind me saying. We DID have RVP, Chelsea DIDN'T have Mourinho and City were not as good as we were last season. That's all there was to it! If anything, we were unlucky NOT to have beaten RM and thus most likely reached the semi-finals in the CL. People talking about all the ifs and buts are only looking for excuses. What went down last season in the league was simple enough, United were better than City and Chelsea with some margin! Our midfield may not be the best, but it's not much worse than City's or Chelsea's. I would say that only Arsenal have a significantly better central midfield than United with Wilshere, Cazorla, Ramsey and Arteta, but still United finished comfortably ahead of them last season. Perhaps we are making too much fuss about the midfield issue?
United need a central midfielder or two, no doubt, but it's not as bad as some would have it. One would only assume that relegation was imminent listening to some arguments on here!
He likes being controversial and uber positive so it's understandable that he'll stick by his stance.
What helped us last year and is Arsenal's downfall, is we have a great defence and the best goalie in the league. Kompany is to City's defence like Carrick is to our midfield, the team struggles without them. Arsenal fans keep screaming for defenders and strikers like we do for the midfield. We all have issues. Chelsea wanted a striker, they now have Eto.
If Carrick would get injured, our midfield would be way worse than that of any of the other 5 top clubs.
About your comment on DT, yes we won the title but there also were a lot of things that happened in order to do that:
- our strikers were fantastic, RVP, Rooney and Chicha scored 64 goals last seasons (all competitions). With Chicha's injury and the lack of pre-season and with Rooney's problems we would be lucky if they replicate that.
- Carrick didn't got injured, as Sphaero said he played only in the league 3044 minutes. Can we expect this to happen every year?
- We made more returns than any other team in the history of the Premier League? Without SAF, I can't see us making those many returns.
Add to that, both Chelsea and City have better managers than last seasons (Chelsea have probably the best manager in the world) and have strengthen their teams by four or more quality players and it's easy to understand why people are worried that we didn't sign a midfielder this summer.
The whole argument that "we won this and that last year therefore we're fine this year" is a daft, old, tired one anyway.
According to your reasoning then, a good defense and/or a good attack is more important than a good central midfield, so maybe Ferguson was right splashing the money on RVP instead of a central midfielder. As you say, every team has issues, even Barcelona who are too slow in their central defense.
Has it been confirmed that Chelsea have signed Eto'o? Great signing for them, I would imagine, but it doesn't bode well for Lukaku's playing time - and he can be great. Mourinho yet again reluctant to play their young talents?
Is the arguments of IFS and buts better? Should we not be able to assume that Cleverley can only improve this season and Ando can't possibly be more injured and our wingers can't possibly be worse than last season? Thus assuming that the rest of the team performs to last year's standards, we should improve with the team we have. It's not as ridiculous as you claim!
Try telling MUTV that. It's their favourite line.
Exactly. We have the best keeper in the league, the best string of strikers in the league, and despite injuries we have very good options in the defense. Rafael and Evra are also fantastic when attacking. Our wingers were a bit shit last season, but we can expect that they'll be better this season because the season before that they were the best wingers in the league. What we don't have is a good midfield. Even last year (with Carrick having his best season ever and playing almost every game) we were overruned in midfield by many teams and won many games because of the brilliance of Van Persie. It frightens me only to imagine how our midfield would look without Carrick on it.
Again with the IFs. Is it likely that City will go yet another season with having not half the injuries that United suffer? Chelsea have strengthened their team, but mostly with players where they already have terrific options in Hazard and Mata - can't see Willian or Schürrle being an upgrade on them.
Is it likely that our wingers will be as bad as last season? Thus if they improve they will score quite a few more goals and not therefore making Rooney's absence more manageable.
How would Chelsea and City fare with the injuries United have suffered? This place is so depressing at times, where you are basically the complete opposite of the disgusting optimism of RAWK with an equally disgusting pessimism about United here.
You have a good point on the wingers. It is very likely that they will be (much) better than last season. They were terrific a season before that.
About Cleverley, I don't see it. He hasn't improved a bit in the last two seasons and personally I have never seen him more than a squad player (in fact I have always rate Ando higher than him). I think that him being English and a local boy has made many posters overrate him and I haven't ever seen him that he's good enough to be a starter in our midfield. Ando can be good at times, but after 6 seasons it is very optimistic to expect that he will suddenly not get injured anymore and improve his fitness. His history says that after some good performances he'll get injured and the cycle will continue. Like others, I hope that this is not the case, but I have hoped it in the last 3-4 seasons. And always got the same results. Ando will leave his injuries behind and will be our solution to midfield is our counterpart to Liverpool's 'next year is our year'
Right ok, so we wouldn't have a very good midfield if Carrick got injured.
Would Arsenal have a better midfield if Wilshere was out? Would Man City without Yaya? Would Chelsea without Ramires? Would Tottenham without Dembele?
Would Arsenal have a better midfield if Wilshere was out? Would Man City without Yaya? Would Chelsea without Ramires? Would Tottenham without Dembele?
I knew this was coming next, you're very predictable.
City and Spurs have indeed suffered in the past without those two players, I guess that's why they uh ... went and bought some fecking midfielders this Summer.
You can also add Chelsea.
For the record it's not about being controversial. It's not about being stubborn.
I've said for years that I think our squad is fine and I believe I've been justified in that belief. I've never been against signings, but I put full trust in those at United to strengthen if we need it and if nothing comes about I am fine with that. That's always been my stance. If anything our continued success to me seems to validate my point of view and make hysterical fannies out of those who complain every year about our midfield.
I've said for years that I think our squad is fine and I believe I've been justified in that belief. I've never been against signings, but I put full trust in those at United to strengthen if we need it and if nothing comes about I am fine with that. That's always been my stance. If anything our continued success to me seems to validate my point of view and make hysterical fannies out of those who complain every year about our midfield.
Willian and Schurrle aren't definitely improvements on their trio there, but they are good players and will help their depth. Both Rooney or Eto'o will be an improvement on Torres, heck even Lukaku will be. Add to that the changes from di Matteo and unpopular Benitez to probably the best manager in the world and it isn't hard to expect that they'll be much better than last season.
City have improved too. Fernandinho is an improvement on everything they had, Jovetic is quality, Navarro is a solid player (though I don't think that he's as good as Dzeko, but hey, depth is important) and Navas whom in form is a great player (though he has been shit for the last two seasons and IMO he's the worst of their signings). Pellegrini is better than Mancini IMO.
On the other side, we have a downgrade on manager (and who wouldn't be, every manager would have been a downgrade on Sir Alex). And if you are expecting that Carrick will don't get injured again and we will make again a record of returns then good for you but the second part is highly unlikely.
That's always your whole argument though, for everything. "We still won this, we still won that, how can our midfield be crap?". If the club had your attitude about the entirety of the pitch then heaven forbid what we'd have won. What if last Summer SAF went "Actually, I already have a good strikeforce, I won't bother with RvP"?
You act like because we win that you hold the high ground on your stance, which is a ridiculous view to have seeing as I, and many other people who "complain" about our midfield, still predicted that we would win the league last season.
They would all have functional midfields that can give the base for the better attacking players to attack in those games. We don't have that, if carrick is out there is very little defensive protection an personally I wouldn't say any of the midfielders offer a reliable attacking outles to even balance this out.
Arsenal aren't title rivals. Dembele is overrated.
Chelsea and Man City would have siginificantly better midfields than us, if you took Yaya out of City, Carrick out of United and Ramires out of Chelsea. Because you know, they have quality secondary midfielders.
"Hmm, let's see, I'll just skip this, and this, and this post too cause I've no logical argument for them, ooh, this one might be a good one to pick on!"
Well yeah I think that first quote you've got sums up a lot of my stance. We obviously aren't that bad in midfield.
And I was very happy when RVP signed. I'd be happy if we signed a top class CM tomorrow. I'd be happy if we signed a top class winger, or a top class full back.
But I expect the management to know more about this than me. Wen we signed RVP last year and tried for Moura people were laughing at Ferguson. RVP wasn't needed and to get Moura was simply laughable. Out of nowhere Carrick was the best CM in the league and we'd have loved Moura available. My point isn't that it's not good to strengthen, my point is that we're in an incredibly privileged position and whatever happens we're good enough to deal with it.
With all respect Twigg, I think that it is undeniable that EPL in the last three-four seasons isn't near as good as it was on 2005-2009. I am not one of them who says that the league is shit (I still think that it is the best in the world) but it's not near as good as it was. Our team of last season would have struggled to win the league against Arsenal of 2004, United off 2007-2009 or Chelsea's Mourinho. In Europe on the last two seasons we haven't been good, one time finishing third on group stage and another on the first KO stage. Barca toyed with us on 2012, making us look like a pub team. If we had addressed our midfield problems and our midfield would have been as good as our other departments then I think that in Europe we would have been much more successful then we were.
As long as Carrick is not injured and playing as good as in last two-three seasons I think that we'll be fine in England and challenge for the trophy. In Europe we don't have much hopes though, and as I said, if Carrick gets injured we will struggle to get even the third position. He's our most important player despite the brilliance of RVP, simply because we don't have enough quality in both his replacement or in his partner.
It's not just attacking, it's protecting the defence as well. You don't want them under pressure constantly or eventually your luck runs out. When Carrick is missing, or he has to drop back as a CB due to injury, other teams just walk through our midfield.
I'm surprised we aren't in for a young midfielder as well as Fellaini/Fabregas. Someone like Vilhena, Leitner, Ward-Prowse or Will Hughes. Sure we've got Powell but those I've mentioned are a step ahead of him and surely could be attainable.
quality put down.