We should go for A Song.
So we didn't sign a central midfielder
- Thread starter charlenefan
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
i'd move rooney + money to try to tempt vidal and marchisio to come the other way.
FM!
FM!
Have we ever taken a failed transfer off another European heavy weights hands?
Hargreaves.
He was a great player for Bayern though. We've never swooped in and taken a 'flop' of a teams hands have we? Likes of Sneijder, van der Vaart, Song, Modric.
I thought you meant "failed transfer" as in they failed for us.
Otherwise, no, can't really think of any.
I wouldn't say Hargreaves was "great" for Bayern though, he was what he was, a good defensive midfielder.
Otherwise, no, can't really think of any.
I wouldn't say Hargreaves was "great" for Bayern though, he was what he was, a good defensive midfielder.
We shouldn't even joke about selling Rooney. I hate you all.
196 goals in 354 starts and 41 appearances as sub.
196 goals in 354 starts and 41 appearances as sub.
Perhaps part of the issue is how we play. We rarely play with a midfield 3 and decent number of European teams choose to have the onus on the midfield. While we do play a 4-2-3-1 the majority of the time, this 4-4-2 variant is a very expansive one. We know this to be true based on the way we use wingers as they are tasked with being the creative outlets. Additionally, we're one of the few European teams willing to play two forwards.
The question comes down to if we'd be willing to slightly change how we play to accommodate a different type of midfielder to what we're looking for. With the addition of Kagawa and RvP, we now have the ability to add some dynamism to how we attack. Whether this will happen remains to be seen.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't think we will find another Keano or Robbo. There's a reason such characters are so highly lauded. They are rare quantities. So when I hear Fergie talk about finding a new Keano, I just lose further hope in us signing a new midfielder.
Some posters were discussing Carrick's qualities and how it suits our team compared to other midfielders. Part of this argument goes with my assumption at the beginning of my post regarding our style of play. Operating as a defensive screen. Spraying forward passes to the strikers/wingers. Encouraged to play long balls from deep and getting involved with the attack. For some teams, these sort of tasks are split up between two maybe three midfielders. We are asking Carrick to do all of those things and more.
This season has been rare in the sense that our wingers have been quite mediocre all season long. Usually, it's an outlet which always provides for us. Next season, they may return to the heights of years past. However, I think we need to rely on our wingers less than before. It's harder to this with the way our midfield functions now. Carrick alone is carrying this midfield and until Tom imposes himself more, it's going to be difficult to get more out of this midfield. Don't get me wrong, Cleverley has had some great performances this season and has helped Carrick in midfield. I argue Carrick needs more than just help, he needs rest. Yet, we can't afford to rest bar a few games during the season. Carrick is only getting older. Fletcher won't be the same. Scholes time is near. I'm assuming Ferguson has lost patience with Anderson. Jones is purely a stop gap. Giggs is Giggs.
I think that's why it's so frustrating when it comes to our midfield. We have the ability to improve it but our setup means they aren't many players we can bring in to really complement it. Finding the right piece would be another top-class box-to-box midfielder but in the days of specialist roles, I don't see where we are going to get one. Until we decide to slightly change our style, we will continue down this route of debating about our midfield, wishing for better and not getting what we want. What makes it even more complicated is the contingency plan (Powell, Petrucci, Anderson, Cleverley)
I hope Fergie proves me wrong, but after 7 years I honestly doubt it.
Yes, in a way he's not mature enough, and his form may have been a bit eratic should he be first team choice week in week out, which is not his fault, it's experience and maturity you can only get with age.
yes he have a club to run, and who are we (you and me included) to point this out, but if you ask me, we really need a midfield, even if Cleverly/Carrick/Anderson does the job, you can't argue with Giggs and Scholes not getting any younger, they're a few years away from 40, and to doubt them is not a travesty.
I don't ask for a world class in every department, but we really need to bolster our midfield next season
We should buy Fabregas.
No chance, I'm sure Fabregas is quite happy where he is, and he'll gradually get more games as Xavi gets older.
We should buy Iniesta.
Probably true, it was somewhat tongue in cheek. But he definitely doesn't get as many minutes as a player of his calibre should at Barca.
We should buy Busquets.
Yeah and loan out 42 players. cnut
There is evidence for this, I can see why you're saying it. But I can't quite believe it. SAF has shown so much patience with him over the years, I can't believe it's just suddenly stopped now. I think it's because at one point it looked like he could become that player you described. He seemed to have the attributes. Whether it was the application or just luck he lacked, he never got there. Maybe you're right, maybe SAF had an epiphany, "my god, what am I doing? Look at him limping around the training ground! This is ridiculous!"
The Anderson thing went from tragedy to comedy a long time ago for me, but SAF always had faith. I think he still does. I can't explain why he didn't play against Chelsea though.
Good post by the way.
I think there's a decent chance Anderson picked up a knock last week. Him being left out of he squad when fit is very rare, and the bench against Madrid was otherwise so entirely illogical.
I was always sort of on the fence about this but I just can't see how any other area of the team needs addressing more than midfield. It's not that it's bar or anything but it could be better.
I was worried when RVP came it that it would limit the game time of someone like Welbeck, but he's played more than most and that's because whilst he hasn't added goals to his game he's developed other areas of his game and forced his way in, good players will step up.
I think with Fletch sadly not someone we should make plans around and Scholes unlikely to stay there's a clear space in the middle. Anderson hasn't shown he can stay fit and whilst that doesn't mean he should be moved on I think we have to move away from hoping he'll step up and not buying because of that. Clev has shown promise but he's not been great.
End of the day I think how we'll we've done at times using Jones/Clev in there and think how much better could we be if we just had the option of pairing Carrick with a midfielder who is experienced and knows the role properly. I think it would make the midfield as a whole stronger and allow Carrick to influence more as he could share the midfield responsibilities a bit more. Not to mention we could hopefully give him a rest a bit more and not just hope he's always available. Who knows it may help give the likes of powell more game time. You could actually rest carrick and give powell a chance without taking a big risk by partnering them with clev/ando/scholes.
Carrick, clev, ando and a new player as the base midfielders for next season, with jones, powell and giggs as options would put us in a great position imo. It's not an essential transfer but I think its a transfer which would within reason do the most to take us up another level. Only problem as always is who. Hard to think of many available midfielders at decent prices but then with all of uniteds resources I'm sure there are people they could find.
I was worried when RVP came it that it would limit the game time of someone like Welbeck, but he's played more than most and that's because whilst he hasn't added goals to his game he's developed other areas of his game and forced his way in, good players will step up.
I think with Fletch sadly not someone we should make plans around and Scholes unlikely to stay there's a clear space in the middle. Anderson hasn't shown he can stay fit and whilst that doesn't mean he should be moved on I think we have to move away from hoping he'll step up and not buying because of that. Clev has shown promise but he's not been great.
End of the day I think how we'll we've done at times using Jones/Clev in there and think how much better could we be if we just had the option of pairing Carrick with a midfielder who is experienced and knows the role properly. I think it would make the midfield as a whole stronger and allow Carrick to influence more as he could share the midfield responsibilities a bit more. Not to mention we could hopefully give him a rest a bit more and not just hope he's always available. Who knows it may help give the likes of powell more game time. You could actually rest carrick and give powell a chance without taking a big risk by partnering them with clev/ando/scholes.
Carrick, clev, ando and a new player as the base midfielders for next season, with jones, powell and giggs as options would put us in a great position imo. It's not an essential transfer but I think its a transfer which would within reason do the most to take us up another level. Only problem as always is who. Hard to think of many available midfielders at decent prices but then with all of uniteds resources I'm sure there are people they could find.
I think you mean Biscuits.
Can't you sort this now, anyway, since you own the club? Or are the cows in the next field not tempting you at the moment.
We should have some Tea and Busquets and discuss.
What does he care? He's bought the club with money he doesn't have, he'll be paying himself a million quid for unspecified consultancy services and then disappearing into the background, doubt you'll be seeing or hearing from him again anytime soon.
Love United Hate Ciderman
Ciderman's United: No Trophies
Ciderman's United: No Trophies
You're probably right. When it comes to our midfield, I'm usually at a loss. The key issue is we have no reliability whatsoever in midfield except for Carrick.
Can we really afford to wait on Anderson and hope he will get over his fitness/injury problems? We'll see how our midfield selections pan out but I am losing patience myself. Last season, at least I could see some direction. Now, I honestly don't know what to make of it.
My only hunch is we keep relying on Carrick with Jones being his replacement if the worst happens. We hope Cleverley and Anderson repay our faith in them by continuing to give them experience. We hope that Scholes can stay on another season. Giggs continues his good form and that Fletcher makes a miraculous comeback. We hope Powell, Petrucci and Adnan (cant spell his last name) continue to their development into the first team. And all this happens while we could be looking to improve our midfield but we are simply content.
That's what gets me Simon. I've come to the conclusion we are content. I would take Moutinho right now but perhaps I'm asking too much.
As others have mentioned, we picked up unknown players such as Vidic, Evra, Hernandez, Solskjaer, da Silva twins in the past. Why can't we do the same for a CM? The lad doesn't have to be top class imo. Just someone who's dependable and can give Carrick some relief.
I think you're right. In that long paragraph, I have to say the only one that is to me unrealistic is the fletcher one. Jones will improve. Giggs will be there. OK Scholes prob won't give us another season... But overall I can see us muddling through. As long as Carrick is there, on the whole, we'll probably get by, we do have quality and it should improve. I guess it's just in my lifetime I've seen that position really define our team, these days it just doesn't. It always seems like the weakest link in the chain.
That's actually a good call. This transfer hasn't worked out for Barcelona because their midfield is too strong for him to have any chance to play there and he isn't good enough defensively to be used as a centre half which they've tried to do both with him and Mascherano. He'll sign for someone like Milan though, a more typical destination for Barca/Madrid rejects.
i see more hope there than in an obama campaign. obama taking over for fergie?
Some good posts from Potato, Ash and Simo Says there. I agree with Simon, I think our midfield can "struggle" on for another season or two, or basically til Carrick passes his peak or picks up a serious injury. If Fergie continues his policy of making our defense and attack (and hopefully our wings again) really powerful then it can continue to compensate for our midfield issues, which it has done for years.
Still though, I think if he wants another CL it's far more likely if he bulks up the damn midfield!
Still though, I think if he wants another CL it's far more likely if he bulks up the damn midfield!
you'd have to expect City to improve next year....
they are starting to look back at their best in recent weeks and I could see them strengthening in the Summer
after we lost to Barca in London Fergie talked about bridging the gap between us and Barca who set and continue to set the standard in world football
In reality though and lets be honest we are doing enough to finish ahead of City - they won it by a whisker last year, we buy Van Persie, they stagnate a little and maybe go slightly backwards and we win the league
we should be looking at teams like Barca, Madrid and Munich as our rivals and try to build a squad comparable with theirs
we compare well to those sides in most departments apart from midfield - we would be formidable with 2 more top quality midfielders to replace/cover Fletcher/Scholes/Anderson all of whom are unlikely to be part of our long term future.
I can't see how not signing any midfielder in the Summer could possibly be justified. We'll likely be left with Carrick and Cleverley as first choices and Anderson on the sidelines (unless he leaves which I think is actually possible) and Giggs who can't possibly play more than 20-25 games a season at 40. Scholes will likely leave at the end of season and Fletcher is very unlikely to make a proper return to football. Jones should be used in defence because that's where his future lies - with him we'll either develop a world class defender or an average midfielder in the same class as Scott Parker, it's easy choice really. Then we have Powell with virtually no experience, especially in a 2-man midfield that we seem to play more often than not.
We couldn't even field a proper team with three midfielders, which could come handy in key European ties (particularly away from home).
It'll be criminal if we don't sign at least one but I reckon we could do with two new faces in midfield. At this rate we're going to see Carrick and Giggs retire and Anderson leave and still not address any issues we have in that area.
Unfortunately this time around the lack of genuinely good midfielders that would fit the bill might actually be the case. We've missed out on some players that'd do a great job in the last couple of years - Dembele or Vidal for instance - and there aren't many left available for a transfer. Perhaps we could try for someone like Gundogan but it'd be too expensive I guess and with Lewandowski likely leaving Dortmund won't like to lose another key player (especially as Barca want Hummels too).
We couldn't even field a proper team with three midfielders, which could come handy in key European ties (particularly away from home).
It'll be criminal if we don't sign at least one but I reckon we could do with two new faces in midfield. At this rate we're going to see Carrick and Giggs retire and Anderson leave and still not address any issues we have in that area.
Unfortunately this time around the lack of genuinely good midfielders that would fit the bill might actually be the case. We've missed out on some players that'd do a great job in the last couple of years - Dembele or Vidal for instance - and there aren't many left available for a transfer. Perhaps we could try for someone like Gundogan but it'd be too expensive I guess and with Lewandowski likely leaving Dortmund won't like to lose another key player (especially as Barca want Hummels too).
197 goals in 355 starts and 41 appearances as sub. Closing in on 200 goals for us, and might do it before 400 appearances... But mention selling him, and caftards don't bat an eyelid, and just think 'Get Bale in'. Come on, we want him here for the rest of his career, and breaking records, and winning trophies. He would probably rot somewhere else anyway.
If Fergie honestly thinks that Giggs is the second best central midfielder we have it's time to shop - and has been for some time. We're dreadfully low on numbers in the middle of the pitch, seeing as Fergie has given up on Anderson and Fletcher won't come back (at least to his best). Pretty much leaves us with Carrick, Cleverley and Powell (and Giggs apparently). With the games we play there's simply no reason we shouldn't have at least another top quality central midfielder at the club, and tonight is far from the first occasion we've suffered from the lack of options/quality.
Playing Giggs in central midfield with Carrick has always worked in the past.
White text?
It worked well against Chelsea in the CL semi-final. 2 years ago. Hasn't since then.
If Cleverley was the answer in Fergie's mind, surely he'd of played today?
What's the use in signing CMs if we're still gunna play Giggs there?
In 2010/11 it was okay. Do you by chance know what year it is now? 2013. Giggs hasn't even had a decent game in center mid since 2011. Yet he keeps playing there. If Scholes didn't tell Sir Alex he was past it he'd probably still be starting games as well. Time for Giggs to let him know something Sir Alex is obviously blind to.
If we don't buy a midfielder or 2, even 3 wouldn't be too much this summer, it will just be shocking decision making by Sir Alex.
Even if Cleverley is the answer (I personally think he will be (and is) good enough to play a part) we still need at least another one. We're incredibly lucky that Carrick has hit the best form of his career otherwise we'd be severely fecked in the central midfield and we can't rely that much on him next season.
That's the thing it worked well in one or two games and has failed us in at least half a dozen of games miserably.
After Giggs was back on the left wing I was almost certain that even SAF had realized by now that it is a bad idea of playing Giggs in that position but no he does it time and time again as if he wants to test fate.
The most baffling though is that even when it's clear that it isn't working with Giggs in the center SAF won't even make a sub to correct his error.
When it comes to Giggs and what he can and can't do Fergie really seems to be blind at times.
And yet SAF said recently we are well stacked up in the midfield department.
Why is he doing this?
Why is he doing this?
It's just so obvious we need one and have done for years, I just dont get it to be honest and it's starting to get really fecking frustrating see this team struggle without some quality alongside Carrick.