Berg is utterly awful.
Zlatan
- Thread starter FujiVice
- Start date
I most impressed of Zlatan mentality and mindset. At 39. He is still hunger and top winning mentality , still keep working hard, has right and most focus on football beside family. Zlatan still take this game seriously.
So beside his incredible physical factor. All the factors of mentality are there. Still on top level.
Zlatan = Born to be a winner. Almost.
It’s no doubt abound Zlatan talent and skills. But he had is still has the mindset too. The full packet.
If Zlatan had the top explosiveness, acceleration and top speed. Zlatan would be up there with Messi and Ronaldo. On the best and theirs peak. Messi and Ronaldo were really explosive and had top acceleration, with the ball on theirs feet of course. In advantage of those two, compare to Zlatan.
Same as a just past away football legend Diego Maradonna. The top explosiveness and acceleration.
And same for Brazil Ronaldo.
Top acceleration and explosiveness is a important factor. You need that few meters advantage to pass and beat players. Get away from them. And the little space you need to shoot and score. And the changing of direction on your run to the goal.
A common football factor of the highest level of football players. It is a really good and big advantage.
But rest of others factors. Zlatan was matching the top level. The mentality factors.
So beside his incredible physical factor. All the factors of mentality are there. Still on top level.
Zlatan = Born to be a winner. Almost.
It’s no doubt abound Zlatan talent and skills. But he had is still has the mindset too. The full packet.
If Zlatan had the top explosiveness, acceleration and top speed. Zlatan would be up there with Messi and Ronaldo. On the best and theirs peak. Messi and Ronaldo were really explosive and had top acceleration, with the ball on theirs feet of course. In advantage of those two, compare to Zlatan.
Same as a just past away football legend Diego Maradonna. The top explosiveness and acceleration.
And same for Brazil Ronaldo.
Top acceleration and explosiveness is a important factor. You need that few meters advantage to pass and beat players. Get away from them. And the little space you need to shoot and score. And the changing of direction on your run to the goal.
A common football factor of the highest level of football players. It is a really good and big advantage.
But rest of others factors. Zlatan was matching the top level. The mentality factors.
It worked out well for Zlatan. It didn't work out well for us. We spent nearly 80 million on a CF that couldn't hold up the ball and distribute properly. After that as many experts has said we've had a gap in the striker position that is yet to be properly filled. The fact that we've gone for a quick fix solution in Cavani this year says a lot.
I wouldn't hold Cavani in his current state and age higher than Zlatan either.
I do agree he needed game time to recover from his injury but it didn't exactly take him long to set the MLS alight. Mind you the LA Galaxy were shite before he came, he almost carried them to the playoffs his first year and did it the second year but it still wasn't enough.
And guess what? Now that he left they went out and tried to replace him with Chicharito and fell well short of the playoffs. That is the impact of Zlatan, the player, and mainly the leader.
As a Swede I can in all honesty say that we wouldn't have had a sniff on qualifying for most tournaments with the 2018 World Cup being an exception due to a defensive masterclass and some solid linkup between Ola Toivonen and Marcus Berg.
Now more than two years later, the defense is not the same. The attack is lacking a cutting edge and since Granqvist is out injured and most likely will never be able to make that starting CB spot his again we find ourselves lacking leaders again. Just like United (at least before Bruno). What you get from a player like Zlatan in his 30's is something that is invaluable to the team.
I have no doubts in my mind that he would instantly improve the United team if he were to take Martial's spot at CF today. But that time is gone and I do think that this will be his swansong.
Hopefully, he can get AC Milan a title and make Sweden compete before he decides to finally wind down in the Swedish league with Hammarby (if they are competitive enough).
I don't know, I'm too much out of the loop to give a good answer. All I know is that I dislike Berg.
They lost the first game 5-0, United lost to Istanbul but then beat them 4-1 without much fuss the other night. One off results don't mean much in isolation.
Serie A is a good league but it just isn't the quality it used to be.
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He was struggling in England too before he left, which points to him being in decline more than anything else.
Left wing or Left wing back it doesn't really invalidate the point mate.
Yeah thats a fair point mate, but the few times i've watched Inter in Serie A the likes of Young and Sanchez have looked decent. Which for me gives me an idea of where that league is right now quality wise.
Now I like Young he was a decent player for us but by the time he left he couldn't get a game at RB and I just couldn't imagine him getting regular games in an attacking role for any of the top teams in England not at 35. Even when he was starting for us under Mourinho towards the end it was as a stop gap fullback most of the time because of injuries to the likes of Shaw.
Those of you who are interested should read his book. Good read and gives you an idea of the person behind Zlatan. If you understand the system in Sweden as regards to playing football at an early age then you'll understand even more. In Sweden it's parents who take responsibility for their kid's development at early ages on the football field. Without the parent's participation which is totally voluntary the system would fall apart. Unlike the UK, school football teams don't exist. So the kids are dependant on their parents if they are going to be sucessful. Zlatan's parents emigrated to Sweden. His father, a muslim from Bosnia and mother a catholic from Croatia. Unlike the other boys Zlatan's parents were'nt on the sidelines watching their son. As foreigners to the country with 6 kids to feed and struggling to get into Swedish society, they had other "more important" things on the agenda. So when Zlatan decided he would play football his way, and all the other parents wanted him to play their way he didn't give a feck and carried on being Zlatan. Same happened when as their youngest player playing for Malmo, he gave all the other "more established" players the finger when they wanted him to pass the ball them. Zlatan has never changed, often with the esablishment against him, he's let his feet do the talking. Just like he's doing now at 39 yrs of age in a Milan jersey.Strange in a way it took so long for most football followers in the UK to recognise him. Remember Eric Cantona highlighting the quality of the player not long after he retired. Takes a genius to know one!
I don't know, I'm too much out of the loop to give a good answer. All I know is that I dislike Berg.
He is a bit the Welbeck/Cavani type in that he is good in the play and works hard, but often missing too many chances.
I think we are going to need hard workers to balance the team around Ibra if he plays.
I think we could test different partners depending on form. If Isak shows better form for Real Sociedad we could try him with Zlatan.
Yup.
The Swedish national team has a got a tendency of keep starting past it players until they voluntarily retire, if Toivonen hadn't done so he'd probably still get a game up front. Can't wait to see Seb Larsson lead out the team in Qatar 2022
Wonder what the media will feel about it after the recent, ridiculous 'Zlatan is a bully' campaign.
He was a regular in United’s best finish (2nd) since Fergie aged 33 mate, in a similar position. 30 games in the Premier League finishing second. So yeah, it pretty much does.
Salah absolutely embarrassing the Premier League after leaving Italy with nothing like the stats also does.
In fact, Salah scored more league goals in his first Premier League season than he managed in 3 Serie A seasons steve.
The media and some ex players absolutely embarrassed themselves with that nonsense. The fact is, similar to Jordan, he’s a winner, unlike so many of them, and he rightfully makes demands. So call it “bullying” in sport is an utter embarrassment and shows zero understanding of top level sport.
That Zlatan is still Sweden’s best player and winning golden balls after an ACL injury at an old age and some years in MLS is incredible for the man, but it’s shocking for the Swedish national team.
If you’re gonna play Berg or Zlatan, everyday it’s Zlatan cause neither have a long term future and neither do the national team have any hope of doing anything noteworthy for the foreseeable future. May as well let the Swedes at least enjoy watching their best player.
Zlatan's international career is over and it should be kept that way!
Sadly there is not enough young quality to come through. Berg is doing a good job for the team as is Larsson.
Kulusevski is exciting sadly it looks like he is not good enough for Juventus to start at the moment. Thus wonder how much he will play.
It just tells us that Antonio Conte is a mad man and that's it. Ashley Young is playing as well as he was at Utd which means that he's just average. It would help to watch games I think
Playing Left Back in a fairly conservative Mourinho set-up isn't the same position as left wing/back in a more progressive system wouldn't you agree?
And not that it matters but he was 32 that season.
Haaland is scoring for fun in Germany after transferring from Austria, but that says nothing about the respective levels of the Austrian and German leagues. Same with Salah.
It does help mate and i do. He's looked better for Inter than he did in his last few years at United.
You think Conte is a more progressive coach? feck me.
He has Ashley at left wing back because that’s exactly what he’s NOT!
Haaland had a better ratio in Austria though, 16 in 14 followed by 13 in 15 in Germany.
His stats are eerily similar in both leagues.
Salah was miles worse in Italy, huge difference there.
He wasn’t much worse. He's become better in the PL but it was mostly just a player in a better team reaching his peak under a much better manager who specializes at maximizing player's talents.
Anyway, for anyone watching consistently the games Seria A is worse than the PL and more forgiving to old strikers. It still doesn't take much from what Zlatan is doing now which is fantastic stuff tbf.
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Because Sweden have a team that now play collectively for one and other. There is only one player who is above the others in terms of skills and experience at high level. That player is Emil Forsberg. The manager gets the maximum out of each player. Bringing in Zlatan would disrupt the whole setup.
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Are you seriously comparing what Zlatan did for us at 38 age old to 2 players who are now about to get in their prime and best years ? With all things considered, Zlatan was absolutely phenomenal for us. 2nd best signing we have made post Fergie, with only Bruno being better than him.
Few years out there I think
He was a gerat signing when we made it, but I think we hoped for more. Better in the league and more than one season. To win EL was great, but Zlatan didn't play in the last games.
Ok maybe 35 years old. Still the comparison doesn't make any kind of sense. Both Martial and Rashford are now entering their prime, can't be compared to what a 35 years old did.
22/23 is considered prime now for a striker?
Martial is 24 and will be 25 soon. Of course this is the time he's starting his prime years and when we should expect his numbers to significantly rise. He's no longer a youngster.
Bit pedantic but last year martial was 23 when he achieved the numbers the poster was quoting. Either way he’s a few years off the typical ‘prime’ historically for the majority of top strikers. He’s been poor this season but he did really well last season. That much seems obvious.
Martial will complete 25 next month. His birthday is in December.
Most top strikers strikers start their prime around 25-26. Many of them start even earlier than this.
The Zlatan we got was 35 or something, way past his prime years.
So Martial was two to three years from his prime last season (according to you), and hit 17 league goals without penalties? Great return then I guess. Zlatan was great but no need to put our current strikers down for the sake of it.
There are also plenty of strikers, some of which the best in recent history, that didn’t start hitting 20/25 a season regularly until they were 26/27/28 years old.
Who said it's not a very good return ? I don't remember saying otherwise.
What I said is we can't the numbers of striker approaching his prime to a striker who's way past them. Martial is approaching the age when it's expected to have his numbers significantly rise year by year. Zlatan was playing his last few years in football when he joined us.
Beside saying he was our best striker post Fergie isn't really putting our other strikers down. It's just an opinion, and more of a fact actually. It doesn't mean Martial or Rashford are doing poor in general. Maybe they'll be better than him in the upcoming few years ? But for now he's still our best striker in post Ferige era too.
I just found the notion of continuously treating both Martial and Rashford as youngsters to be a little bit too much at this point. This is their 6th season with United I believe. One of them is 23, the other is 24 and will be 25 soon. It's time to start expecting more from them in general. They're no longer inexperienced youngsters, that's all.
People say Zlatan is a bit of a freak for being where he is at 40, but could he actually be starting a trend? Now the blueprint is there and he's shown it's possible to still be competing at the top level at that age, could we start to see more players do just that?
Not far behind him we have Thiago Silva and CR7 playing like they're still in their 20's and there's Lewandowski at 32 showing no signs of slowing down for example.
Not far behind him we have Thiago Silva and CR7 playing like they're still in their 20's and there's Lewandowski at 32 showing no signs of slowing down for example.
Not at all IMHO, same shit, different team
Trend?
These type of players have always been there.
Maldini, Totti, Giggs, Scholes, Luca Toni, Zanetti, Roger Milla, Baresi, Costacurta and so on. Some players have the skills, intelligence, dedication and / or physique to continue delivering even when the stamina is gone. Many of them never never outran or even ran as much as opponents to begin with.
Then there are the Gerrards and Rooneys.
Of course we hoped for more, that injury looked potentially career ending and we did the right thing letting him go. In hindsight we should have kept him on, his recovery was phenomenal and he would still have been our first choice striker for another year or two.
I agree with @el3mel - second best signing post SAF and I’d go one step further and say that even though his stay was relatively brief, one of the very best strikers we’ve had here too. Top player.
What Zlatan has can’t be learned unfortunately. It’s all down to genetics. Of course he’s coupled his genetic gifts with dedication and been a slave to good self preservation but it’s largely down to what his parents gifted him as to why he’s still able to perform and recover as well as he does.
Sweden just got relegated from the nations league ffs, they are utterly wank.
They were more fun to watch for the entire nation when Zlatan played, and right now that’s all that really matters.
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That maybe but they weren't better as a team when he played.