Zlatan

[el3mel]

You're comparing three Barca years with one. What a load of crap. Henry flopped as much as Barcelona as Zlatan did and don't forget Henry flopped at Juventus as well before he joined Arsenal. Don't fool yourself. Everything Barca won with Henry was down to Messi, Xavi, Iniesta. Henry's part in it was very limited. Pedro won 3 CL's with Barcelona and was more influential for Barcelona than Henry. Is he better than Henry?

Zlatan won 14 league titles, everywhere he went except at Man Utd. Henry's record doesn't compare. Nor does his goalscoring record or his skillset. Henry was obviously a very good striker, but Zlatan is a legendary one - an all time great.

Pretty sure Henry was shifted outwide with Barca to accommodate Messi, something that Zlatan refused to do but Henry was willing to accept it to let the team succeed.

I like Zlatan but I'll take Henry ahead of probably the majority of the strikers in world football.

 

[Sky1981]

He has had great longevity and is a great player no doubt.

I just think sometimes people try to magnify his highs while conveniently brushing aside his lows. This is how players get overrated.



Actually don't have any dislike for him. Just pointing out how he gets overrated. Infact, I'll say something which might be unpopular in the current climate: I rate Zlatan higher than Benzema.

What the hell are you talking about? 14 league titles that's almost 1 every year

What low are we talking about?

Stop digging mate.

 

[Sky1981]

Pretty sure Henry was shifted outwide with Barca to accommodate Messi, something that Zlatan refused to do but Henry was willing to accept it to let the team succeed.

I like Zlatan but I'll take Henry ahead of probably the majority of the strikers in world football.

Cool players. Winning mentality of a cucumber though. I'd take prime zlatan for his arrogance and feck you attitude

 

[Mooza]

You're comparing three Barca years with one. What a load of crap. Henry flopped as much as Barcelona as Zlatan did and don't forget Henry flopped at Juventus as well before he joined Arsenal. Don't fool yourself. Everything Barca won with Henry was down to Messi, Xavi, Iniesta. Henry's part in it was very limited. Pedro won 3 CL's with Barcelona and was more influential for Barcelona than Henry. Is he better than Henry?

Zlatan won 14 league titles, everywhere he went except at Man Utd. Henry's record doesn't compare. Nor does his goalscoring record or his skillset. Henry was obviously a very good striker, but Zlatan is a legendary one - an all time great.

Absolutely nothing backs this up.
Ibrahmovic has never been in the Balon d’or top 3. As I said he has virtually no notable Champions League moments. Big fish in small pond. As someone wrote teams flourished when he left them.
Henry - 26 goals in 42 matches for Barcelona in 2008-2009. Key player in Barcelona’s win vs Lyon in the knockouts.

You’re very mistaken if you think Ibrahimovic is more legendary just because he played until he’s 40.
Look at what other players especially forwards say about Henry. Henry was Lewandowski’s idol. He’s a much more influential player and forward than Ibrahimovic. Just recently Van Dijk called him a legend while being interviewed after Liverpool beat Villarreal in the Champions League.

 

[Daslogisch]

Absolutely nothing backs this up.
Ibrahmovic has never been in the Balon d’or top 3. As I said he has virtually no notable Champions League moments. Big fish in small pond. As someone wrote teams flourished when he left them.
Henry - 26 goals in 42 matches for Barcelona in 2008-2009. Key player in Barcelona’s win vs Lyon in the knockouts.

You’re very mistaken if you think Ibrahimovic is more legendary just because he played until he’s 40.
Look at what other players especially forwards say about Henry. Henry was Lewandowski’s idol. He’s a much more influential player and forward than Ibrahimovic. Just recently Van Dijk called him a legend while being interviewed after Liverpool beat Villarreal in the Champions League.

Henry has retired now. People already call Zlatan a legend while he still playing. Henry did great things at Arsenal, so he is a PL legend and people will give him that.

It is true Zlatan doesn't have great CL campaigns. But let's be honest here, neither did Henry. He had to move to Messi's Barca to get good CL campaign's. Yes, before that one final with Arsenal in which they did not stand a chance. Other than that Henry's Arsenal also always flopped in the CL. Henry's Arsenal were even eliminated by Ibra's Ajax in 2002/03 when Ibra did have a good CL campaign by the way, brought Ajax to the QFs in which he had a big role and Ajax was two minutes away from a SF which is a big accomplishment against clubs with much bigger resources. Zlatan's CL performances may not have been as great as his domestic performances, but Henry's CL's performances are not either.

 

[Red the Bear]

Cl isn't the all and all as after all its a cup competition, I inzaghi (a world class player in his own right) has done much more in cl compared to fat Ronaldo and yet you have to be out of your mind to rate the former above the latter.

 

[Mooza]

Henry has retired now. People already call Zlatan a legend while he still playing. Henry did great things at Arsenal, so he is a PL legend and people will give him that.

It is true Zlatan doesn't have great CL campaigns. But let's be honest here, neither did Henry. He had to move to Messi's Barca to get good CL campaign's. Yes, before that one final with Arsenal in which they did not stand a chance. Other than that Henry's Arsenal also always flopped in the CL. Henry's Arsenal were even eliminated by Ibra's Ajax in 2002/03 when Ibra did have a good CL campaign by the way, brought Ajax to the QFs in which he had a big role and Ajax was two minutes away from a SF which is a big accomplishment against clubs with much bigger resources. Zlatan's CL performances may not have been as great as his domestic performances, but Henry's CL's performances are not either.

Ajax didn’t knock Arsenal out in 2002-2003. Valencia did and in the match vs Ajax in Ajax ‘s stadum even though it was 0-0 Henry made their players look like kids at times. Ibrahimovic had little impact. Henry’s 2002-2003 CL was stilll better than Ibrahimovic’s. Henry was runner up in the 2002-2003 Balon d’Or and Ibrahimovic was 20th. Henry’s 2005-2006 CL campaign is far beyond any of Ibrahimovic’s.

Painting Henry as just some local Premier League great and Ibrahimovic as some international legend is hilarious and obviously completely wrong.

 

[Daslogisch]

Ajax didn’t knock Arsenal out in 2002-2003. Valencia did and in the match vs Ajax in Ajax ‘s stadum even though it was 0-0 Henry made their players look like kids at times. Ibrahimovic had little impact. Henry’s 2002-2003 CL was stilll better than Ibrahimovic’s. Henry was runner up in the 2002-2003 Balon d’Or and Ibrahimovic was 20th. Henry’s 2005-2006 CL campaign is far beyond any of Ibrahimovic’s.

Painting Henry as just some local Premier League great and Ibrahimovic as some international legend is hilarious and obviously completely wrong.

You are full of yourself. Henry made them look like kids? You forget that they actually were kids and at Highbury these kids made the great invincible Arsenal look like baby girls. You also forgot Henry was in his prime years at the time and Zlatan was just getting started (first CL season). Zlatan was as important for Ajax in that season as Henry for Arsenal and Zlatan brought Ajax further than this great Arsenal team that always flopped in CL except for the fluke final. 2 QFs and 1 F was all that the great Henry could achieve with your club which is quite underwhelming tbh. In the fantastic 2005/2006 season you mentioned Henry only scored 5 CL goals and none past the QFs (hence none in the last 3 matches and only 2 goals in 7 post group stage matches). Anything but spectacular. But to be fair to Henry; his most spectacular CL season was probably his first one with Monaco in which he actually made the SF and scored his only goal post QF in the CL.

Zlatan may not have reached his domestic levels in the CL, but the same really goes for Henry. Both of them scored only 4 goals beyond the round of 16. Henry really didn't do much better than Zlatan and his legacy is fully related to his PL performances. Even for France Henry was not that great even if he was part of a WC and EC winning squad and played another WC final. In Henry's time, especially when he was suppose to carry the team, France bottled it most of the time. Zlatan has a better goalscoring record for Sweden than Henry for France, even though Henry had much more talent around him. Zlatan has fantastic performances for many clubs, in many leagues and won a crazy amount of titles and his legacy is tied to all kinds of crazy performances and goals for all those clubs and his NT. Henry can say the same for his Arsenal days.

 

[TenonTen]

What the hell are you talking about? 14 league titles that's almost 1 every year

What low are we talking about?

Stop digging mate.

Cool players. Winning mentality of a cucumber though. I'd take prime zlatan for his arrogance and feck you attitude

Arrogance and feck you attitude? Cringe. Imagine buying this kinda nonsense. Guess you're a Balotelli fan then. Thanks for proving the point.

Zlatan is the classic no pressure magician/flat track bully. We have all seen him disappear in big games throughout his career. He has been embarrassing himself in the Champions League for years. This is the reason he picks B grades teams and challenges. Big fish in a small pond. He couldn't cope in a truly elite team like Prime Barca and threw his toys out of the pram when he realized he was surrounded by superior players in every position. Spent many of his peak years statpadding in PSG while disappearing in Europe.

 

[TenonTen]

Ajax didn’t knock Arsenal out in 2002-2003. Valencia did and in the match vs Ajax in Ajax ‘s stadum even though it was 0-0 Henry made their players look like kids at times. Ibrahimovic had little impact. Henry’s 2002-2003 CL was stilll better than Ibrahimovic’s. Henry was runner up in the 2002-2003 Balon d’Or and Ibrahimovic was 20th. Henry’s 2005-2006 CL campaign is far beyond any of Ibrahimovic’s.

Painting Henry as just some local Premier League great and Ibrahimovic as some international legend is hilarious and obviously completely wrong.

Especially when Ibrahimovic shat the bed in the CL consistently despite desperately jumping from club to club to win it.

 

[Suedesi]

If we are talking about the CL as the marker of success in a player's career (which it isn't), Henry is the definition of shitting the bed - he could have won Arsenal the CL in Paris and he choked. Twice.
His CL win with Barca came because of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol etc - not something Henry should take full credit for. He was mostly a passenger.

With France he rode the coattails of Zidane and co also - the one time Zidane was injured and Henry was expected to assume leadership, the team got bounced in the group.

Zlatan is overrated but I prefer him to Henry

 

[Lay]

Henry was heavily criticised in his prime for not doing enough when it truly mattered. Think he had a poor record in finals.

Both are/were great players. Zlatan frustrated me more during his career so I think I’d pick Henry if I had to. Zlatan when he was on, was fecking brilliant but I’ve seen far too many games of his where he’s so careless.

 

[TenonTen]

Sweet. Now let's count how many times Zlatan has choked in the CL. Atleast, Henry has that iconic CL goal against Madrid.

Also, if Zlatan can take credit as the head cheerleader for Milan's current title, then the Henry at Barca case is nothing that bad.

BTW, where was Zlatan's elite mentality and coaching/motivational ability when Sweden recently got eliminated by an inferior national team in the decisive World Cup qualifier?

Henry>Zlatan. Henry also has a couple of European golden boots, was robbed of a Ballon d or, was the best player in the world for a while and stuff. Individually better.

 

[Idxomer]

Zlatan's 12 league titles

2 with Ajax

3 with Inter after Calciopoli

1 with Barca

4 with QSG

2 with AC Milan

Doesn't look that impressive to me and very inflated by his wins in France, 8 of those league titles at least would've been won without him easily.

 

[kouroux]

Zlatan's 12 league titles

2 with Ajax

3 with Inter after Calciopoli

1 with Barca

4 with QSG

2 with AC Milan

Doesn't look that impressive to me and very inflated by his wins in France, 8 of those league titles at least would've been won without him easily.

Which 8 titles ? He contributed massively to all of PSG's titles and since PSG managed to not win some of them, I wouldn't discard his contribution

 

[Giggs' right foot]

Which 8 titles ? He contributed massively to all of PSG's titles and since PSG managed to not win some of them, I wouldn't discard his contribution

If you don't singlehandedly play all the 11 positions at the same time and win the league with the likes of Angers, Venezia and Rotterdam - really, how good are you then?

 

[PSV]

Zlatan's 12 league titles

2 with Ajax

3 with Inter after Calciopoli

1 with Barca

4 with QSG

2 with AC Milan

Doesn't look that impressive to me and very inflated by his wins in France, 8 of those league titles at least would've been won without him easily.

Considering it took Ajax 7 years to win it again, PSG failed to win at first opportunity and AC Milan haven't won it since 03-04 without Zlatan I'd say you're spot on.

 

[Idxomer]

Which 8 titles ? He contributed massively to all of PSG's titles and since PSG managed to not win some of them, I wouldn't discard his contribution

4 with PSG, 3 with Inter and pick one of his 3 with Barca and Ajax.

No other team got more than 80 points while he was at PSG.

 

[Idxomer]

Considering it took Ajax 7 years to win it again, PSG failed to win at first opportunity and AC Milan haven't won it since 03-04 without Zlatan I'd say you're spot on.

His two titles with AC Milan are great, well the first one anyway.

PSG failed to win it against a team that got 83 points, the next season the best any other team could do was 71 points. Ibra played most of his prime in non-competitive leagues, there's no way around that.

 

[kouroux]

4 with PSG, 3 with Inter and pick one of his 3 with Barca and Ajax.

No other team got more than 80 points while he was at PSG.

How would you quantity the total point reached by those without his direct (goals and assists) and indirect contribution ? There is no way to know so it's a pointless speculation

 

[Zlaatan]

Sweet. Now let's count how many times Zlatan has choked in the CL. Atleast, Henry has that iconic CL goal against Madrid.

Also, if Zlatan can take credit as the head cheerleader for Milan's current title, then the Henry at Barca case is nothing that bad.

BTW, where was Zlatan's elite mentality and coaching/motivational ability when Sweden recently got eliminated by an inferior national team in the decisive World Cup qualifier?

Henry>Zlatan. Henry also has a couple of European golden boots, was robbed of a Ballon d or, was the best player in the world for a while and stuff. Individually better.

You talk about diverting attention and conveniently brushing things aside and yet the only thing you seem to talk about is the CL, which just so happens to be the only competition he hasn't done particularly well in.

The only time you've mentioned his international career for example is when you talk about this past WC qualifier where he as a semi-injured 40-year old sat on the bench the whole time. I don't know if you're deliberately ignoring it because it doesn't support your argument or if you simply don't know much about it but you'd be laughed out the country if you came to Sweden and said that Zlatan disappeares in big games or that he's just a "no pressure magician".

 

[Suedesi]

Zlatan's 12 league titles

2 with Ajax

3 with Inter after Calciopoli

1 with Barca

4 with QSG

2 with AC Milan

Doesn't look that impressive to me and very inflated by his wins in France, 8 of those league titles at least would've been won without him easily.

+2 with Juve which were on the field but stripped by BS Calciopoli

 

[Suedesi]

4 with PSG, 3 with Inter and pick one of his 3 with Barca and Ajax.

No other team got more than 80 points while he was at PSG.

Clueless

Do you know Inter were absolutely not winning those titles without Zlatan? He was instrumental in all three, especially the second one where they had to rush him back to win on the final day because Inter were shitting the scudetto and Roma was about to pipe them on the final day. (Parma - Inter)

 

[Vernon Philander]

Zlatan is the classic no pressure magician/flat track bully. We have all seen him disappear in big games throughout his career.

Come on, you make it sound like he's Lukaku levels of flat track bullying.

He has scored key goals in el classico for Barca, against City for us, and countless goals in Milan derbies, all when the pressure was on.

Also, and I've already linked this to you in a previous post, he single-handedly won us the EFL cup in the final itself.

I disagree with the posters earlier that are trying to say he is better than Henry. But they do have a point in that Henry also had similar detractors when it came to Europe, yet it still doesn't mean he wasn't an all time great player.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You're comparing three Barca years with one. What a load of crap. Henry flopped as much as Barcelona as Zlatan did and don't forget Henry flopped at Juventus as well before he joined Arsenal. Don't fool yourself. Everything Barca won with Henry was down to Messi, Xavi, Iniesta. Henry's part in it was very limited. Pedro won 3 CL's with Barcelona and was more influential for Barcelona than Henry. Is he better than Henry?

Zlatan won 14 league titles, everywhere he went except at Man Utd. Henry's record doesn't compare. Nor does his goalscoring record or his skillset. Henry was obviously a very good striker, but Zlatan is a legendary one - an all time great.

To be fair Henry also won WC and Euro with France, was 2nd in Ballon D’or. I wouldn’t go as far as to say his record doesn’t compare.

Zlatan
Ballon D’or - 4th
Top 3 league titles - 8 (6 if discounted 2 titles revoked at Juventus)
Major trophies won - 0
Trophies count - 34
Career goals - 570
Career assists - 157

Henry
Ballon D’or - 2nd, 3rd
Top 3 league titles - 4
Major trophies won - WC, Euro, CL
Trophies count - 18
Career goals - 417
Career assists - 179

 

[Idxomer]

+2 with Juve which were on the field but stripped by BS Calciopoli

Ok

 

[abundance]

4 with PSG, 3 with Inter and pick one of his 3 with Barca and Ajax.

No other team got more than 80 points while he was at PSG.

That Inter side was very dominant in Serie A but Ibrahimovic contribution to that dominance was pretty substantial.

In terms of offensive build-up and end product as well as leadership and impact in the locker room.

That side had a lot of strong, zero-fuss characters like Zanetti, Stankovic, Maicon, Samuel, Cambiasso, Vieira, Julio Cesar... and they all said that they felt more at ease with Ibrahimovic on the pitch.

Especially in 2007/08, I really don't think we would've won without him.

 

[Sky1981]

Arrogance and feck you attitude? Cringe. Imagine buying this kinda nonsense. Guess you're a Balotelli fan then. Thanks for proving the point.

Zlatan is the classic no pressure magician/flat track bully. We have all seen him disappear in big games throughout his career. He has been embarrassing himself in the Champions League for years. This is the reason he picks B grades teams and challenges. Big fish in a small pond. He couldn't cope in a truly elite team like Prime Barca and threw his toys out of the pram when he realized he was surrounded by superior players in every position. Spent many of his peak years statpadding in PSG while disappearing in Europe.

Ok mate. Keeping this for posterity

 

[haru krentz]

BTW, where was Zlatan's elite mentality and coaching/motivational ability when Sweden recently got eliminated by an inferior national team in the decisive World Cup qualifier?

You wish Zlatan to score goal using his hand so his country could qualified to the world cup?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

World class self trumpet blower.

 

[roonster09]

World class self trumpet blower.

Exactly, Lion and all that.

Henry > Zlatan, Eto'o > Zlatan too. Henry was just too good, suited to play any type of game. What a player he was, I was so happy when he finally fecked off from Arsenal.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Exactly, Lion and all that.

Henry > Zlatan, Eto'o > Zlatan too. Henry was just too good, suited to play any type of game. What a player he was, I was so happy when he finally fecked off from Arsenal.

Zlatan is very good but the myth outweighs the man in a way that it doesn't with others.

And I'd take Henry and Eto'o anyway over him.

 

[TenonTen]

You wish Zlatan to score goal using his hand so his country could qualified to the world cup?

Despite all the dirty plays and stuff, Zlatan never mastered the dark arts. He just does silly and painfully dumb fouls. Remember when he tried to clash with Lukaku like a manchild and then got himself sent off in the second half? Not even a good shithouse, so no I wouldn't expect him to bend the rules and win an all-important game for his country.

But his fans are bigging him up for his off the field coaching and motivational qualities. So I wonder why he couldn't motivate his Swedish teammates in a do or die World Cup qualifier against a weaker side? There's a reason Sweden had their best World Cup campaign in a long time without him in 2018.

World class self trumpet blower.

Exactly, Lion and all that.

Henry > Zlatan, Eto'o > Zlatan too. Henry was just too good, suited to play any type of game. What a player he was, I was so happy when he finally fecked off from Arsenal.

This is how it works: When he says something truly stupid, his fans will just laugh it off saying he's Zlatan and not serious.

On social media, most of the comments under a Zlatan post are those old Zlatan jokes about how he brought up his own father, created universe, etc. His quotes are basically a way to stay in the news.

From this last decade itself, there are 2 comprehensively better strikers than Zlatan. Actually if you count Benzema/Aguero(Many rate Benz above Ibra) it's 3/4

Ibra has great longevity but his peak wasn't high enough at the very elite level.

If your team is like a Real, Bayern, Barca type- all dominating team, then Zlatan will flop badly and hinder the team game.

Zlatan is better suited to B grade teams or B grade level projects where the expectations are lower because unlike the personality his PR team sells, he crumbles under pressure consistently. The team has to be built geared towards his strengths.

Also, his time at United is extremely overrated. He missed so so many piss easy chances on a regular basis. Pogba was creating chances for fun that season. Wasn't Ibra injured in the key Europa league games too? Only the EFL cup against mighty Southampton where he did very well.

Half of his career goals are in French league(when it was even worse than now), Dutch League, MLS, etc.

 

[Thelongsleevesofblomqvist]

Zlatan is very good but the myth outweighs the man in a way that it doesn't with others.

And I'd take Henry and Eto'o anyway over him.

Sometimes I think about this quote by Di Maria.

"I have played with Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney and now I have the chance to play with Ibra," he told Uefa's official website.

"I'd never realised how good he is, all the moves he has despite him being so tall, I was very surprised from the day I arrived." (To PSG.)

The myth seems more often to over-shadow how incredibly good player he is. There is a reason why Zlatan had higher on pitch status in all the teams he shared with PL greats - Henry in Barcelona, Rooney in Man Utd, Vieira in Inter. Or all the players he shared a pitch with except Messi.

 

[roonster09]

From this last decade itself, there are 2 comprehensively better strikers than Zlatan. Actually if you count Benzema/Aguero(Many rate Benz above Ibra) it's 3/4

In this decade I would take Benzema, Lewandowski, Suarez, Aguero ahead of Zlatan.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sometimes I think about this quote by Di Maria.

"I have played with Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney and now I have the chance to play with Ibra," he told Uefa's official website.

"I'd never realised how good he is, all the moves he has despite him being so tall, I was very surprised from the day I arrived." (To PSG.)

The myth seems more often to over-shadow how incredibly good player he is. There is a reason why Zlatan had higher on pitch status in all the teams he shared with PL greats - Henry in Barcelona, Rooney in Man Utd, Vieira in Inter. Or all the players he shared a pitch with except Messi.

Or alternatively, he only did exceptionally well outside the elite big 2 leagues - France and Serie A. And we've seen the kind of strikers who have been prolific in Serie A over the years.

Rooney's decline was alarming fast but that aside, what was Zlatan's "higher status" there? Rooney is one of our greatest who was finished. Zlatan had a decent year for us owing to his longevity. That's the only reason. As for Henry, he again went to Barcelona when he was past his prime and did well. Zlatan went to Barca as a young force and disappointed.

I find him to be very overrated. If I'm picking a striker for my team, he's way down the list of the ones I pick from the ones I've watched. For me, he is a very good footballer who is elevated a few tiers higher due the image.

 

[giorno]

In this decade I would take Benzema, Lewandowski, Suarez, Aguero ahead of Zlatan.

That is straight up insulting

 

[roonster09]

That is straight up insulting

It's not.

 

[giorno]

It's not.

Aguero is hilariously overrated on here

 

[roonster09]

Aguero is hilariously overrated on here

Not more than Zlatan.