Exactly, our results are actually flattered this season by Wolves appalling finishing and Forest imploding.
Zlatan on Ten Hag | "A project can go wild with results but either you believe it in or you don't believe in it"
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
Piers is a bellend.
Zlatan's a gowl.
ETH needs to be sacked.
Think that just about sums this thread up.
Zlatan's a gowl.
ETH needs to be sacked.
Think that just about sums this thread up.
Between 2020 and 2022 they only improved by 8 points and went from 8th to 5th. They still lost the same amount, as I said, few people expected Arsenal to be title challengers and their play was hardly outstanding each week.
We're playing out from the back, trying to have control of games and be less reliant on individual brilliance, we were bad at creating against Palace because of poor decision making and a lack of urgency but we've shown we can be good, we were actually creating a lot when Weghorst was here but he couldn't finish. We're also pressing much higher as a team and we should have far more goaks from turnovers. The team is low on confidence now but they'll get better
Agreed I also don't see why fans would use Arteta as the golden goose when Klopp is the more realistic measure due to the size of the club. Even taking away Klopp, Poch has had a more successful four year reign with Spurs compared to what Arteta is having with Arsenal. The only thing keeping Arteta's name in everyone's mouth is recency bias but the club shouldn't be looking at Arsenal as the model for moving forward but rather Jurgen and his stint at Liverpool.
Well I mean this is always going to be the issue at United.
If it's not the fans who want short term fixes/results, it's the media/pundits who will pile on the pressure when the team goes on a run of losses like they have been doing right now.
Hate comparing to other clubs because club contexts/situations are different but if United as a club with the board believe in Ten Hag, they need to stand firm and get through the storm somehow, like Arsenal did. They should be setting their expectations according to what they feel is achievable (even if that expectation is different from others). Like how Edu in trusted in Arteta and presented to the Arsenal board why he should stay on during their tough spells.
The problem however is United don't have a competent board. Which is why the problem swings full circle back to the ownership and club model/structure in place.
If it's not the fans who want short term fixes/results, it's the media/pundits who will pile on the pressure when the team goes on a run of losses like they have been doing right now.
Hate comparing to other clubs because club contexts/situations are different but if United as a club with the board believe in Ten Hag, they need to stand firm and get through the storm somehow, like Arsenal did. They should be setting their expectations according to what they feel is achievable (even if that expectation is different from others). Like how Edu in trusted in Arteta and presented to the Arsenal board why he should stay on during their tough spells.
The problem however is United don't have a competent board. Which is why the problem swings full circle back to the ownership and club model/structure in place.
You can either stick with your manager or you dont.
Wow 200 IQ. Thanks Zlatan Owen.
Wow 200 IQ. Thanks Zlatan Owen.
The media and some United fans are really on the ETH out bandwagon. Sacking him is pointless. We're not getting anybody better, and he will fail with the owners and background staff we have, anyway. I think the club needs to stand its ground and let ETH do his job. At the very least, I would let him finish this season. Look at things again when it ends.
It's funny because after that Ole/Rangnick year, I was not expecting much from last season and wouldn't have minded every player getting shipped out, and I doubt many others felt too differently. Possibly a lesson that compromising long term goals for short term success isn't wise, as that short term then becomes the baseline to beat.
Huh? Is this just a fancy way of saying they improved by 8 points and 3 league positions between the 20-21 season to the 21-22 season? Like I said, each season showed an incremental improvement in points. Even in the seasons when they were still developing there were some signs. They absolutely played City off the park in one of their matches, going directly head to head with them and dominating possession for spells, but still ended up losing on a last-minute Rodri winner. Of course their play wasn't outstanding each weak, they were a young and developing squad. Inconsistency was to be expected. Still, you could see them clearing out deadwood and expensive contracts, coalescing around young squad on cheap (at the time) contracts that could grow together to become a force, developing a team identity and, yes, improving results.
With ETH's squad composition, are you seeing the development of a young nucleus that will grow together and potentially become a force for years to come? It all seems like a hodgepodge patchwork job. But, to be fair to him, he has pressures to deliver more in the near term that Arteta did not and constraints that Arteta has not faced.
I only invoke Arteta because it is probably the closest "successful" comp of recent note at a big club other than Klopp. The situations and expectations are not the same, but there is something of a blueprint there for the sake of discussion and comparison. These discussion tend to focus on results, but there are other ways that you can demonstrate some form of progress and imbue a sense of belief. Poch is decent too, I suppose, but he didn't really receive as much support in the transfer market to reward his exploits and "giving him time" was the obvious thing to do because he was over performing without tremendous outlay or expectation from the club.
Last edited:
“Impatience of our fans” 
Why do people speak to Piers Morgan?
That's alright, none of your posts hold any weight with me whatsoever. I'm sure I'm not the only one either.
Do you lash out at everything and everyone in real life too? If so, you must get punched by complete strangers quite often.
We've also bested City who won the treble last season. In fact, Arsenal were beaten easily City last season. We've signed young players too, Casemiro being the exception to our core. Antony, Martínez, Højlund, Mount can all be considered part of our core.
We've also shown signs, we beat Liverpool, Spurs and City at home with great performances, we bested Barca over 2 legs with great performances, reached 2 finals and won one.
It's hard to support the man who gets all the basics wrong. 400m and can't barely put a team that can match Burnley.
He basically dont know how to deal with Bruno Rashford and spending 400m only to build a half baked team that still has 2 players that can never buy his playstyle
These naivety is on him.
Does giving him another 500m and 5 yeaes would work? SAF dont deliver till year 5 but he never back down from big names since day 1.
He basically dont know how to deal with Bruno Rashford and spending 400m only to build a half baked team that still has 2 players that can never buy his playstyle
These naivety is on him.
Does giving him another 500m and 5 yeaes would work? SAF dont deliver till year 5 but he never back down from big names since day 1.
You generally play your best players, and you upgrade on the ones who are the worst. With FFP and the squad not being up to scratch it would be hard for whoever to get all the right people. He's been unfortunate with injuries too.
Technically he's not wrong. If you believe in the manager's project and think he'll improve you will endure the short term results. The point is Ten Hag's project sucks and will lead us nowhere going by his inability to implement a proper style of play and identity, and his crap transfer business.
His transfers have been awful. Overpaying for Dutch league players. Get some perspective.
And lost 7-0 at home to Liverpool. And this season we are dross
*Away, Ole was the one that lost 5-0 at home.
Morgan has never made a meaningful contribution to our understanding or appreciation of politics, culture or sport. He’s a scummy WUM who is not worthy of our attention here, even if he were to interview Socrates or Einstein.
All United managers post Ferguson had memorable performances and results against the top teams, all of them reached finals and most of them won trophies at United. The net result is what matters, as these are just scattered good performances here and there.
This whole thing is about finding a sustainable path success. The point was not about merely "beating" City, which many teams have done. It was the fact that they dominated City for extended periods, which few teams have done. I remember being a bit shocked at the time. With that type of performance, win or lose, you could see the basis of a foundation for the future.
Many people have strong doubts and little optimism about Antony and Mount. Højlund has barely played and Licha has a less than desirable injury history. If you are confident and optimistic in that as that combination as the future foundation of a winning side, you are probably in the minority. There was near unanimous excitement about the likes of Odegarrd, Martinelli and Saka amongst the Arsenal fanbase, even through all of the growing pains.
Also a bunch of the "signs" you've pointed to are from last season. ETH won't be able to rely as strongly on those at the end of this season, so the incremental improvement needs to come in this season.
I'm out of posts for today, so have at it.
Everyone posts this constantly, there is an identifiable style of play that is noticeably different from last season, you just can't tell the difference between style of play and results.
On who?
Martinez transformed our defence
Antony has been OK at RW
Malacia is a squad player
Onana was one of the best Keepers in the world last year
Get some perspective and show some respect even the other posters who disagree with me have done that. Your opinion that his transfers have been awful isn't even factually correct. Your post is a cnut.
Lots of comparisons going on with other managers; Klopp and Arteta for example.
Fact is that ETH over achieved in his first season, considering the mess of a situation he walked into. 3rd place, FA Cup final lost by goalkeeping error, and a League Cup trophy, the first trophy in 6 years.
This season has started poorly, for sure; but the mitigating circumstances are an almost unprecedented injury crisis, more scandals off the pitch, a forever takeover saga….the team is completely misfiring as we integrate more new players and deal with the legions who are out injured.
This season should be judged as a whole, not in the microcosm of the first 5-10 games. When the team hits a rough patch, which it has, there is no quality of infrastructure to fall back on. The club is a rotten shambles behind Erik. Sacking him is pointless.
I’d give him three full seasons and make the call at the end of next season. In the interim you take the rough patches with the same grain of salt that you take the purple patches, and hope a takeover of some sort is completed.
If we finish 5th or 6th this season, it only looks like regression because he overachieved so much last season. In reality, the squad he took on and the problems we had, only merited a 7th or 8th place finish. Not third, a trophy and another final.
Fact is that ETH over achieved in his first season, considering the mess of a situation he walked into. 3rd place, FA Cup final lost by goalkeeping error, and a League Cup trophy, the first trophy in 6 years.
This season has started poorly, for sure; but the mitigating circumstances are an almost unprecedented injury crisis, more scandals off the pitch, a forever takeover saga….the team is completely misfiring as we integrate more new players and deal with the legions who are out injured.
This season should be judged as a whole, not in the microcosm of the first 5-10 games. When the team hits a rough patch, which it has, there is no quality of infrastructure to fall back on. The club is a rotten shambles behind Erik. Sacking him is pointless.
I’d give him three full seasons and make the call at the end of next season. In the interim you take the rough patches with the same grain of salt that you take the purple patches, and hope a takeover of some sort is completed.
If we finish 5th or 6th this season, it only looks like regression because he overachieved so much last season. In reality, the squad he took on and the problems we had, only merited a 7th or 8th place finish. Not third, a trophy and another final.
That's some way to play on the "insult the post not the poster" rule instead of just being direct with the intended insult.
Antony scored 4 goals and 2 assists in the Premier League for United but I guess that's considered "OK" now.
Madrid is a terrible example, because everything from the structure to recruitment is generally top tier. So if the team is faltering tremendously it’s often down to the manager hence why they are so ruthless with them.
I actually very much wanted to directly insult him.
Antony has been OK in possession and with helping the team out, he needs to work on his left foot plus he was getting used to the league. No doubt we overpaid and we could talk about who we could've signed but I think he's better than the other players we could play there. If Amad comes back he should get a shot there, I don't think Pellestri is the one.
Antony has 1 goal since this time last year in the league. How does that pass for OK?
Even Pepe did better than that and he’s a monumental flop
I think ETH would have a lot more credit in the bank with our fans if we played entertaining football and just weren’t getting results. But if we are honest, we’ve yet to do that at all barring some outlier games. Now that’s excusable for a first season and we won a trophy as well which is great, but now in season 2 nothing looks to have changed. Fans are rightfully going to take issue with that.
Does it mean he should be instantly sacked? No. But I also don’t think he should be given some 3 year grace period that he hasn’t really earned. Sorry but scraping your way to a Carabao cup doesn’t give you that.
Does it mean he should be instantly sacked? No. But I also don’t think he should be given some 3 year grace period that he hasn’t really earned. Sorry but scraping your way to a Carabao cup doesn’t give you that.
Someone used the example of the 2016 Real Madrid side as a reason why we should sack ten Hag the other day. Some people really do have brain worms.
You know your winger is shit when the best you can praise him for is putting the effort to help the team out. Unfortunately, goals, assists and being actually involved in attacks and terrorizing the defenders matter more for forwards.
It reminds me of the early Weghorst days when people were defending him because "he put a lot of efforts into it". He's a forward, his job should be scoring goals. If the only thing you can praise him for is efforts then it means he sucks at his primary job.
Last edited:
He passes for ok because he helps the team to play better. In any case it doesn't mean ten Hag's signings have been awful. As I said, nobody has gone into that position and improved us more than Antony in his time here.
I mean you could have a Lukaku who will score but be terrible at everything else. We have a lot of players who don't put in effort and that usually means we get beat.
Bruno usually gets a goal or an assist and still gets criticised. Ideally we'd have players who put effort in and are good, but that isn't ten Hag's fault, it's the owners and directors.
Effort is the bare minimum you'll expect from any player. It's not something worthy of a praise. It's his job to go on the pitch and put on some hard work into this as that's what he's literally paid millions for them. What's important is if he's actually a good player or not.
Efforts alone will never make you a good team. Talent and ability would. You can fill your team with low tier players who can't stop running and you'll end up fighting for relegation because these players are just shit.
So it boggles my mind when a shit forward is praised for "running a lot". He's getting paid by the club to run a lot. That's not a criteria for being a good player. It's his abilities that define if he's good or not.
Antony is just a terrible footballer. You have nothing else to praise him for except the bare minimum expected from any player.
Fergie got far in his final years on just effort from some players. He's hardly a terrible footballer, he might not ever reach top footballer status but he's not terrible. I think your personal dislike for him is just showing.
Fergie had good players who put efforts, not awful ones who just run a lot.
That's what it piles up for : "personal dislike". On the contrary, you haven't provide a single evidence on how he has been Ok for United except "he helps the team out".
Looks like Zlatan has remote respect for ETH, and Piers isn't satisified with answers.
I remember some bust ups Zlatan had in Ajax back in a day. Koeman could easily throw him out the door, but he managed to use fiery rivalry between him, Mido and Van der Vaart to spark moments of absolute genius from the whole team.
In United players aren't even remotely motivated for that type of rivalry. It also becomes all convoluted when you compare different clubs from different era of football.
I remember some bust ups Zlatan had in Ajax back in a day. Koeman could easily throw him out the door, but he managed to use fiery rivalry between him, Mido and Van der Vaart to spark moments of absolute genius from the whole team.
In United players aren't even remotely motivated for that type of rivalry. It also becomes all convoluted when you compare different clubs from different era of football.
A sensible approach. As opposed to EtH should be backed with another 200m next summer.