Zlatan on Ten Hag | "A project can go wild with results but either you believe it in or you don't believe in it"

VP89

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Found this interview interesting - as a player having played at both Ajax and United and knows the step up needed from a manager.




I found his point about any project quite interesting, short term results can send them "wild" but you either believe in it and stick with it, or you don't. There shouldn't be a half way house. He's right in saying the predicament in United is that the sheer size of our club and impatience of our fans means its an uphill struggle for Ten Hag to get the time he needs.
 
VP89 said:
Found this interview interesting - as a player having played at both Ajax and United and knows the step up needed from a manager.




I found his point about any project quite interesting, short term results can send them "wild" but you either believe in it and stick with it, or you don't. There shouldn't be a half way house. He's right in saying the predicament in United is that the sheer size of our club and impatience of our fans means its an uphill struggle for Ten Hag to get the time he needs.
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But….but….Ange at Spurs doesn’t need time!
 
VP89 said:
Found this interview interesting - as a player having played at both Ajax and United and knows the step up needed from a manager.




I found his point about any project quite interesting, short term results can send them "wild" but you either believe in it and stick with it, or you don't. There shouldn't be a half way house. He's right in saying the predicament in United is that the sheer size of our club and impatience of our fans means its an uphill struggle for Ten Hag to get the time he needs.
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Silly me, I thought Real Madrid were a big team with no patience. Turns out they're a small club with the most patient fans in the world. No wonder they've been so successful. Zlatan manages to talk the most shite and people lap it up.
 
Piers tried hard to get Zlatan to talk shite about ETH
 
Devil_forever said:
Silly me, I thought Real Madrid were a big team with no patience. Turns out they're a small club with the most patient fans in the world. No wonder they've been so successful. Zlatan manages to talk the most shite and people lap it up.
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Or, the man just has his own opinion which he's gained from years playing within the sport.
 
Devil_forever said:
Silly me, I thought Real Madrid were a big team with no patience.
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Comparing Real Madrid to any PL club is pointless. Real Madrid could be managed by a literal donkey and they would still finish top 2 and probably make it to the CL quarter finals.

Chelsea are a much more reasonable comparison if you are going discuss patience vs impatience.
 
Any way to watch it without giving Piers Morgan 0.0001p of revenue?
 
Scandi Red said:
Comparing Real Madrid to any PL club is pointless. Real Madrid could be managed by a literal donkey and they would still finish top 2 and probably make it to the CL quarter finals.

Chelsea are a much more reasonable comparison if you are going discuss patience vs impatience.
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Then lets compare it to Chelsea, they turned over managers for fun under Roman and were the most successful team in England during his reign.

The opinions of Zlatan "I bottled it on every big occasion and became a mental midget at Barca" Ibrahimovic don't hold much weight for me. Sorry.
 
Devil_forever said:
Then lets compare it to Chelsea, they turned over managers for fun under Roman and were the most successful team in England during his reign.

The opinions of Zlatan "I bottled it on every big occasion and became a mental midget at Barca" Ibrahimovic don't hold much weight for me. Sorry.
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Seriously?

You're labeling Zlatan Ibrahimović as a mental midget?! Feck me.

Scared to think what's your opinion on our current squad :nervous:
 
VP89 said:
Found this interview interesting - as a player having played at both Ajax and United and knows the step up needed from a manager.




I found his point about any project quite interesting, short term results can send them "wild" but you either believe in it and stick with it, or you don't. There shouldn't be a half way house. He's right in saying the predicament in United is that the sheer size of our club and impatience of our fans means its an uphill struggle for Ten Hag to get the time he needs.
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Piers trying to get little bites without success.
 
Devil_forever said:
So should we listen to what Alan Shearer says? What about Michael Owen?
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Well people can listen to whoever they want to listen to surely?... and It's not like Zlatan is a rent-a-quote/pundit who is voicing his opinion every week.

As an aside, Shearer is well worth listening to on the podcast he does with Linekar and Richards.
 
It's true Piers tried to get a soundbite the little cnut
 
Piers should have gotten Zlatan and Rebic onto the snow at the same time. It was Rebic who recently had less then flattering words about Zlatan, correct?
 
Devil_forever said:
Then lets compare it to Chelsea, they turned over managers for fun under Roman and were the most successful team in England during his reign.
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Each to their own. 5 PL and 2 CL in 19 years isn't bad of course but it's not crazy successful either. I also think that they were very fortunate in the CL in particular. 2 of their 5 PL trophies came in a particularly weak era where Leicester won the league and Spurs looked like a serious challenger. I don't think their model is very successful with City and Klopp present.
 
Devil_forever said:
Then lets compare it to Chelsea, they turned over managers for fun under Roman and were the most successful team in England during his reign.
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By what metric?

SAF won as many PL titles as Roman did during his entire tenure despite quitting almost a decade earlier. Pep has equal or more PL-titles since taking over City over 10 years after.
 


Well said. Coming to United and thinking you can Eredivisie your way to success is stupidly naive.
 
Piers Morgan is fecking obsessed with Ten Hag. Trying to push Zlatan into talking shit about the manager, all because he got rid of an over the hill Ronaldo. If he was up Ronnie’s arse any further he’d be coming out his mouth.
 
Samid said:


Well said. Coming to United and thinking you can Eredivisie your way to success is stupidly naive.
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You missed what Zlatan was saying. Ten Hag isn't trying to say he is "Eredivisie" his way to success.
 
The "ETH out" crowd really piling on, eh. It's going to be an annoying few weeks/months/years/however long it takes for him to be sacked. They've made their minds and want the next manager already. Nothing to be done.
 
He's got a point. Klopp's first 3 seasons with Liverpool he finished 8th, 4th and 4th. Took until his 4th season to get them challenging for a title. Ten Hag is in his second season now. I'd give him until the end of next season at least
 
Initially read the thread title as 'Ten Hag on Zlatan"
 
Now every little thing will be ETH's fault. Players injured? His fault. Rashford doesn't give a shit? His fault. Bruno's worst form since coming to the club? His fault. Even the Glazers are fine and not a problem.
 
tothetop96 said:
He's got a point. Klopp's first 3 seasons with Liverpool he finished 8th, 4th and 4th. Took until his 4th season to get them challenging for a title. Ten Hag is in his second season now. I'd give him until the end of next season at least
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Arteta as well on a similar trajectory. Many including myself thought he'd be sacked but they stuck with him and they look much better compared to the last 5 years or so.
 
Zlatan is a clown. He was very talented in his prime, but always a clown

I need his opinion about United, like I need a toothache. He is not a United fan, he doesn't care about us, he doesn't watch us, he can feck off. Whatever cheap shot he took with Pierce fecking Morgan on us is meaningless and waste of time
 
But we been through this with every manager post saf. Only one who didnt get time was Moyes but it was clear as a day he wasnt a proper fit. Perhaps things will click next season who knows. But we have highest net spend of any club post saf. Our success in transfer market has been abysmal. We havnt had a genuinely world class xi since forever now.
 
The problem with a "project" it should mean progression, with maybe the occasional period of stagnation. What it shouldn't entail is regression.

Some fans may be impatient about how slow the progression is, but as long as the team isn't regressing then there's always an argument to believe in a project.

What we're going through right now is not slow progression. It's going from a top 4 side to a side who doesn't look like they'll get anywhere near top 4. We cannot be going from 3rd place to 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th with less points. A successful project is very unlikely to involve making the team significantly worse after £400m spent. If bad results continue over the next few weeks, it would become very clear that we're going backwards, which can't be acceptable.
 
NewGlory said:
Zlatan is a clown. He was very talented in his prime, but always a clown

I need his opinion about United, like I need a toothache. He is not a United fan, he doesn't care about us, he doesn't watch us, he can feck off. Whatever cheap shot he took with Pierce fecking Morgan on us is meaningless and waste of time
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Did he take a cheap shot?
 
FreakyJim said:
Now every little thing will be ETH's fault. Players injured? His fault. Rashford doesn't give a shit? His fault. Bruno's worst form since coming to the club? His fault. Even the Glazers are fine and not a problem.
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As a fanbase, we love individualising all problems. everyone is clamouring for a tangible target to vent their frustration.
 
tothetop96 said:
He's got a point. Klopp's first 3 seasons with Liverpool he finished 8th, 4th and 4th. Took until his 4th season to get them challenging for a title. Ten Hag is in his second season now. I'd give him until the end of next season at least
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The Klopp thing always makes me laugh. Klopp had titles and a CL final under his belt - he was already one of the best managers in the world by the time he landed there - and Liverpool were markedly improved by his second season.
 
horsechoker said:
Arteta as well on a similar trajectory. Many including myself thought he'd be sacked but they stuck with him and they look much better compared to the last 5 years or so.
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For this to work, you have to in some way be showing steady, incremental progress toward the longterm objectives. Arteta had it in terms of reforming the squad composition with younger players, style of play and results, with the early FA cup with buoying his case. Klopp had it in terms of playstyle and results in the league and cup competitions.

There were ups and downs for each, but on the whole the trajectory was clear and you could see the case for rewarding the incremental progress with further investment and faith, even if they weren't winning everything from the outset (or yet to win anything big in Arteta's case).

ETH will need to achieve some type of progress, whether in terms of playstyle or results, in order to keep momentum going and justify further investment and faith. You can't go from 3rd in the league to 6th or 7th with no identifiable style of play and expect to be granted the same allowances as Klopp or Arteta.
 
Taribo's Gap said:
For this to work, you have to in some way be showing steady, incremental progress toward the longterm objectives. Arteta had it in terms of reforming the squad composition with younger players, style of play and results, with the early FA cup with buoying his case. Klopp had it in terms of playstyle and results in the league and cup competitions.

There were ups and downs for each, but on the whole the trajectory was clear and you could see the case for rewarding the incremental progress with further investment and faith, even if they weren't winning everything from the outset (or yet to win anything big in Arteta's case).

ETH will need to achieve some type of progress, whether in terms of playstyle or results, in order to keep momentum going and justify further investment and faith. You can't go from 3rd in the league to 6th or 7th with no identifiable style of play and expect to be granted the same allowances as Klopp or Arteta.
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The results weren't there for Arteta but ten Hag is changing the composition of the squad and the style of play, it's not happening all at once but the signs are there. People tend to look back favourably on Arteta but for most on here he was just lego Pep.
 
Devil_forever said:
Then lets compare it to Chelsea, they turned over managers for fun under Roman and were the most successful team in England during his reign.

The opinions of Zlatan "I bottled it on every big occasion and became a mental midget at Barca" Ibrahimovic don't hold much weight for me. Sorry.
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Why are you posting here then?
 
NewGlory said:
Zlatan is a clown. He was very talented in his prime, but always a clown

I need his opinion about United, like I need a toothache. He is not a United fan, he doesn't care about us, he doesn't watch us, he can feck off. Whatever cheap shot he took with Pierce fecking Morgan on us is meaningless and waste of time
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Did you even watch the video?
 
It's also important to define what the project is, the issue with the supposed project is none of us know what the criteria is. If the project is to win the league or challenge in four or five years the teams trajectory has to be consistently moving forward which by rule isn't being witnessed this season.

I see Arteta mentioned so often in these conversations but there are too many differentiations between the relativity of Arsenal and United, a United manager would not last two consecutive 8th place finishes point blank period. Arteta is certainly an exception to the rule because if he was at Liverpool, City, Barca, Madrid or Bayern he would have been sacked. It's also imperative for critical thinking sake that he's not won anything of significance at Arsenal so while it's completely understandable to acknowledge his development from A to B history won't account for it no different to how no one accounts for the brilliance Poch showed at Tottenham (until Arsenal win something of note).

The most relevant scenario to objectively view a managers progression at a club of substantial size and resource, is to look no further than Klopp: 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd, 1st with a UCL final and win two consecutive seasons in a row. That is how an unproven manager buys and builds credibility at a big club. Multiple things have to click in place including perhaps the biggest which is fantastic recruitment. That's not even touching the ethos of the manager and his ability to coach the team which is fundamentally what's undoing EtH tenure in his second season at this moment in time.

So while time is certainly a requirement for any manager there has to be a linear show of definitive progression (should be easily comprehensible) for them to earn there stay, not a lateral trajectory of development.
 
horsechoker said:
The results weren't there for Arteta but ten Hag is changing the composition of the squad and the style of play, it's not happening all at once but the signs are there. People tend to look back favourably on Arteta but for most on here he was just lego Pep.
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Arsenal have improved their points haul in each of the last four seasons and their league position has steadily improved as well. Sure they had some blips in there as well, but there is also steady progression in results.
 
horsechoker said:
The results weren't there for Arteta but ten Hag is changing the composition of the squad and the style of play, it's not happening all at once but the signs are there. People tend to look back favourably on Arteta but for most on here he was just lego Pep.
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What signs? Please explain with specifics. We cant defend and we cant create chances. Apart from that...
 
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