Yves Bissouma / Signs for Spurs

Status
Not open for further replies.
reddevilz007 said:
I would end the Pogba saga by selling him, sell Fred, Pereira and Lingard, let Matic and Mata leave for free.

Latest quote for Neves is 30 mil, Bissouma probably for 35mil. I would get both Neves and Bissouma, and get Grealish.

Midfield for 21-22:

Neves, Bissouma, McTominay, VdB, Bruno, Grealish.

Garner on loan in the premier league.

but hey, we all know none of this will happen :)
Click to expand...

30m for Neves seems too good to be true
 
Exactly the type of player we need to be taking a risk on. Bissouma fits the profile of a player to make the step up at a big club.
 
Same name popping up this season along with the likes of Rafinha. Both evidently would have use in the team. No idea what Brighton would demand however.
 
reddevilz007 said:
I would end the Pogba saga by selling him, sell Fred, Pereira and Lingard, let Matic and Mata leave for free.

Latest quote for Neves is 30 mil, Bissouma probably for 35mil. I would get both Neves and Bissouma, and get Grealish.

Midfield for 21-22:

Neves, Bissouma, McTominay, VdB, Bruno, Grealish.

Garner on loan in the premier league.

but hey, we all know none of this will happen :)
Click to expand...
Neves is so average. There is a reason why he is only 30m now. If we are selling Pogs, get someone of similar quality. (Grealish is not his replacement)
 
Think he would make a lot more sense at 35-40mil than Rice would at 80mil. We could get him and Sancho for £110m less £40m on sales of Lingard and Dalot and we have improved at both ends of the ground for £70m net spend.
 
I haven't seen him play a lot, but from the handful of games I have watched, he looks a very impressive midfield player for the double pivot. He has the attributes/skillset to play both the more defensive role and also the more offensive box to box role in a double pivot IMO. Which is something that is important for a team that wants play a proactive brand of football. What I don't want to see, (personal preference) is us sign a player who just occupies the space in front of the two CBs, either on the left or the right defensive zones.

Bissouma does tick a lot of boxes defensively, but he's also surprisingly very good going forward from the games I've watched. His shooting ability and ability on the ball is quite impressive, and in one game I watched, he ended up in the opposition wide space, where he bamboozled the opposing fullback with a great piece of skill which opened up space to create a goal scoring opportunity. It's rare to see a midfielder who is defensively strong, with good discipline and also has the touch, technique and flair, when required higher up the pitch.

So for me, if we're to sign a player for midfield with a strong defensive game, then I'm hoping we look at Bissouma for that role.
 
Surprisingly press resistant, didn't panic at all when pressed and always found a way.
 
reddevilz007 said:
I would end the Pogba saga by selling him, sell Fred, Pereira and Lingard, let Matic and Mata leave for free.

Latest quote for Neves is 30 mil, Bissouma probably for 35mil. I would get both Neves and Bissouma, and get Grealish.

Midfield for 21-22:

Neves, Bissouma, McTominay, VdB, Bruno, Grealish.

Garner on loan in the premier league.

but hey, we all know none of this will happen :)
Click to expand...
Mmm. Sell our entire midfield and sign two lower midtable central midfielders to start. What could go wrong?
 
Floyd said:
Surprisingly press resistant, didn't panic at all when pressed and always found a way.
Click to expand...
He's absolutely superb at evading the press. I was also surprised with how comfortable he was in confined spaces.
 
I'm glad he's getting the recognition he deserves. I remember him making one of his first appearances for Brighton (might have been his debut) against us and I thought 'this guy can play'. I've followed him ever since and he looks exactly the type of player we need. I could easily see him at City rotating with Rodri or at Liverpool if they bin off Keita.
 
PL proven player, likes a tackle and can pass. It would be worth taking a risk on him. Brighton have played some really good counter attacking football against bigger sides and possession football against other sides so we know he is capable of playing both styles which we kind of play.
 
He's better than Rice and would fit our style of play way more, would be way cheaper too.

It's the type of signing Liverpool would make under Klopp.
 
Good player, about the same level as Fred and McTominay. Wouldn't help us bridge the gap to City, imo.
 
arthurka said:
We could finally drop Fred..
Click to expand...
Would we necessarily want to? He was absolutely integral to our 2 only wins against domestic rivals this season (City and Spurs). Bissouma would come in for McTominay, surely? In run-of-the-mill games it'd be nice to be able to play a midfield of Pogba and Bruno with one midfield anchor behind them, though (if Bissouma is up to it).
 
Adnan said:
I haven't seen him play a lot, but from the handful of games I have watched, he looks a very impressive midfield player for the double pivot. He has the attributes/skillset to play both the more defensive role and also the more offensive box to box role in a double pivot IMO. Which is something that is important for a team that wants play a proactive brand of football. What I don't want to see, (personal preference) is us sign a player who just occupies the space in front of the two CBs, either on the left or the right defensive zones.

Bissouma does tick a lot of boxes defensively, but he's also surprisingly very good going forward from the games I've watched. His shooting ability and ability on the ball is quite impressive, and in one game I watched, he ended up in the opposition wide space, where he bamboozled the opposing fullback with a great piece of skill which opened up space to create a goal scoring opportunity. It's rare to see a midfielder who is defensively strong, with good discipline and also has the touch, technique and flair, when required higher up the pitch.

So for me, if we're to sign a player for midfield with a strong defensive game, then I'm hoping we look at Bissouma for that role.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty comprehensive analysis of Bissouma but it was written in December 2020 where, at that point, he’d played a lot of the season as the more offensively minded CM in the Brighton pivot system next to Alzate or Ben White.

Since then he seems to have played the more defensive role, next to Lallana, much more often and his numbers have reflected that. I didn’t watch the game last night but I’ve seen the highlights (all 2 of them) and it seemed to show all of Bissouma’s strengths - quick aggressive ball winning skills combined with great dribbling and one touch passing to evade pressure.

I think at the right price he’d be a great signing as he seems to be one of those players from lower down the league who will be a natural fit at a bigger club. Brighton’s style of play mirrors a more progressive team so the fact that he’s produced a great season for them is a good omen for his ability to step up. If they were to demand in excess of £40/45 million however I think it would make less sense as the bulk of the budget should be reserved for Sancho imo.
 
Harry Harries said:
Would we necessarily want to? He was absolutely integral to our 2 only wins against domestic rivals this season (City and Spurs). Bissouma would come in for McTominay, surely? In run-of-the-mill games it'd be nice to be able to play a midfield of Pogba and Bruno with one midfield anchor behind them, though (if Bissouma is up to it).
Click to expand...
I would yes I agree with Keane here he isn't s very good player at all.
 
He's class, would love for him to stay at Brighton but:
1 - I think his head has already been turned - was in poor form for second half of the season although has played better recently and was class last night.
2 - Brighton could use that £40m to bring in a much better striker.
Arsenal seem to have been the most heavily linked.
 
Brighton's best player, so they're likely to ask the earth for him, unless he has a contract situation we can exploit. We need to find him before he joins the premier league, cos once he is in the premier league and is a star, we'll have to use the majority of the budget to buy him. He could be the difference between staying up or not... and that's worth over 100m to these clubs. They'd want that sort of money to buy him.

It's like these posters coming out and saying "get Grealish". He has a six year contract (5 remaining), is the club's best player, and on top of that English. Villa would ask 9 digit numbers for him, and is therefore un-transferrable.

We have to find the players before they join the premier league in order to be able to sign more than one player per window. Once they're in the league, and are proven, they're unaffordable, unless their contract has a year or less to run.
 
Brighton bought Caicedo to replace Bissouma, they know he'll be leaving soon. He'd be a very smart purchase for somebody in the top 6.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Brighton bought Caicedo to replace Bissouma, they know he'll be leaving soon. He'd be a very smart purchase for somebody in the top 6.
Click to expand...
Was thinking the same...but should we cut out the 'middle-man' and go straight for Caicedo?
 
Beachryan said:
Was thinking the same...but should we cut out the 'middle-man' and go straight for Caicedo?
Click to expand...

Well it seems like a good idea in theory to ‘get these players before they’re established’ as a few posters have mentioned but it’s much more problematic to do this in reality.

Bissouma is a perfect example of this issue for bigger teams. When he first joined Brighton he struggled to establish a clear role within the team and took a while to adapt to the demands of being a midfielder in the Premier League. Brighton provided him the forgiving platform to overcome these initial struggles that he would never have received at United due to the demands and pressure at a club like ours.

If we’d signed Bissouma 3 years ago we’d have got him for a fantastic price but he would likely never have developed into the player he has and we’d have sold him. So we have to, instead, pay a premium now to essentially reward Brighton for giving him the time and freedom to make that development.
 
Dante said:
Good player, about the same level as Fred and McTominay. Wouldn't help us bridge the gap to City, imo.
Click to expand...
I don't think its all about their ceiling, level or whatever it's about individual attributes - he might be the same level with both McTominay and Fred but also possess different attributes like passing, shooting etc that make him a better fit for our team.

We know McFred's weaknesses regarding ball progression and circulation and it seems Bissouma can do that better than both meaning we can play him as part of a pivot with either or with a more offensive player thereby increasing our options.
 
He looks really great, has good ball control, good tackles, good passes, he'd fit nicely.
 
I'd drop £25-30 mill on him. Think that would be fair for a PL proven-ish player.

I really like him but at the same time I wonder is he really that much better than say Fred? If you compare him to how Fred played against Spurs on Sunday? I don't think I've seen performances close to that from Bissouma and that worries me because Fred isn't the natural out-and-out DM that we need.
 
AgentSmith said:
Well it seems like a good idea in theory to ‘get these players before they’re established’ as a few posters have mentioned but it’s much more problematic to do this in reality.

Bissouma is a perfect example of this issue for bigger teams. When he first joined Brighton he struggled to establish a clear role within the team and took a while to adapt to the demands of being a midfielder in the Premier League. Brighton provided him the forgiving platform to overcome these initial struggles that he would never have received at United due to the demands and pressure at a club like ours.

If we’d signed Bissouma 3 years ago we’d have got him for a fantastic price but he would likely never have developed into the player he has and we’d have sold him. So we have to, instead, pay a premium now to essentially reward Brighton for giving him the time and freedom to make that development.
Click to expand...
This. We should remember how highly rated players like Fosu Mensah, Pereira and others were then we should look at the issues being faced by Diallo, no manager was ever going to risk losing their job to mould a player like Bissouma in a position where you have nowhere to hide.

United don't have the luxury to blood in a lot of young players so we have to pay the premium when a player is proven like we did with Maguire, Keane back in the day or Rio. What we need to do is avoid letting the likes of Leicester, Everton and Spurs get players like him before because then they would demand a king's ransom.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I'd drop £25-30 mill on him. Think that would be fair for a PL proven-ish player.

I really like him but at the same time I wonder is he really that much better than say Fred? If you compare him to how Fred played against Spurs on Sunday? I don't think I've seen performances close to that from Bissouma and that worries me because Fred isn't the natural out-and-out DM that we need.
Click to expand...

Fred’s passing is generally bad and technically he’s not great which impacts a lot. If whoever selected can be an upgrade in those departments it’s worth it. We were poor v Leicester, no doubt, but a technical error from Fred starts the FA Cup exit off. That’s a clear example of how damaging it can be. I’m sure if anyone had the time to go through any match they’d see many other occasions where a better player would help.
 
Is this a fact free zone ? I keep reading statements that are quite clearly incorrect if you look at the data on Fbref, WhoScored and Understat (links below).

Brighton are a passing team. The player on the ball has lots of options to pass the ball to. They create a fair amount of chances but their finishing has been terrible this season.

Bissouma's pass completion rate is 86.8%. Which is marginally lower than both Fred and McTominay. For short passes Bissouma 40.9 (accurate) v 4.8 (inaccurate). Long passes 2.3 (accurate) v 1.8 (inaccurate). McTominay Short 43.4 v 5. Long 2.8 v 1.6.

Perhaps Bissouma attempts more ambitious passes ? 0.4 key passes per 90 mins. Again below that of Fred and McTominay. His xA90 is 0.03 this season, was 0.01 last season, 0.05 the season before. He has 0 assists in the PL in 3 seasons. McTominay 0.8 key passes per 90 mins. xA90 0.11, 1 assist this season. Fred 0.9 key passes, 0.09 xA90

Progressive passes per 90 mins: Bissouma 3.38, McTominay 4.61, Fred 5.73

Progressive carries per 90 mins: Bissouma 4.04, McTominay 5.47, Fred 4.39

He's good at shooting: no he isn't. His shot map is awful. A huge percentage of his shots have been off-target. He has scored 2 goals in the PL in 3 seasons. Shots inside the area: 3 saved 1 blocked 8 off-target. Shots outside the area: 2 goals, 8 saved, 18 blocked, 36 off-target.

Bissouma has one red card this season in the PL, after 89 mins in the 3-0 win against Newcastle so didn't cost them.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that Bissouma isn't a good player but if you think he'd come in and be an automatic upgrade on Fred or McTominay, I suspect you'd be disappointed.

https://fbref.com/en/players/6c203af0/Yves-Bissouma

https://understat.com/player/5609

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/303096/Show/Yves-Bissouma
 
Last edited:
I will say Bissouma passes the 'eye test' better than Fred and McT for me. He look more comfortable receiving a ball and moving it on, and looks more fluid and mobile. Stats may not fully show it, but I do think he looks like an upgrade.
 
Looks like a good player from the little I've seen of him, but knowing how we are run, we will wait and watch him go to a club like Everton or West Ham for 30m-ish only to buy him the following season for 75m
 
kundalini said:
Is this a fact free zone ? I keep reading statements that are quite clearly incorrect if you look at the data on Fbref, WhoScored and Understat (links below).

Brighton are a passing team. The player on the ball has lots of options to pass the ball to.

Bissouma's pass completion rate is 86.8%. Which is marginally lower than both Fred and McTominay.

Perhaps Bissouma attempts more ambitious passes ? 0.4 key passes per 90 mins. Again below that of Fred and McTominay. His xA is 0.03 this season, was 0.01 last season, 0.05 the season before. He has 0 assists in the PL.

Progressive passes per 90 mins: Bissouma 3.38, McTominay 4.61, Fred 5.73

Progressive carries per 90 mins: Bissouma 4.04, McTominay 5.47, Fred 4.39

He's good at shooting: no he isn't. His shot map is awful. A huge percentage of his shots have been off-target. He has scored 2 goals in the PL in 3 seasons. Shots inside the area: 3 saved 1 blocked 8 off-target. Shots outside the area: 2 goals, 8 saved, 18 blocked, 36 off-target.

https://fbref.com/en/players/6c203af0/Yves-Bissouma

https://understat.com/player/5609

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/303096/Show/Yves-Bissouma
Click to expand...
This is a good point. I feel Fred's progressive passing especially is underrated.

One of the big things for a defensive midfielder is willingness to get hold of the ball and moving it on without losing it. Winning the ball is only half the battle, being available for passes is the other half (an area where McTominay really struggles for instance). I'm more willing to forgive a lack of progressive passing if he's constantly showing for the ball and offering midfielders an out ball, getting the ball to those players quickly and being positionally disciplined.

What strikes me about Bissouma is that he's not the player to make himself available for the ball, he makes 48 passes a match which is not good at all for a player in his position.
 
I think I'd prefer Koopmeiners as an alternative who'd play a similar role and I imagine cost around the same. Having said that Bissouma looks very good and could offer the flexibility of defensive solidity while still being comfortable technically.

Anything up to around 40m would be a decent punt these days I think.
 
AKDevil said:
Fred’s passing is generally bad and technically he’s not great which impacts a lot. If whoever selected can be an upgrade in those departments it’s worth it. We were poor v Leicester, no doubt, but a technical error from Fred starts the FA Cup exit off. That’s a clear example of how damaging it can be. I’m sure if anyone had the time to go through any match they’d see many other occasions where a better player would help.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree, which is why I mentioned Fred not exactly being perfect for the DM role we need covered.

The thing with Fred is that he definitely has his weaknesses but when he’s in good form his strengths tend to outweigh those weaknesses (like we saw on Sunday where his relentless energy and pressing is a big plus in that performance) resulting in a situation where we need to be buying a very good player in order to improve on Fred. If you get what I mean.
 
reddevilz007 said:
Can’t say we had more success in buying ready-made stars. Short term memory much?
Click to expand...
See @kundalini ’s post above. I don’t think Fred and McTominay are amazing, far from it, but they’re pretty underrated at times. Someone like Neves who is routinely average wouldn’t displace either, and I’m not that convinced by Bissouma either.
 
DWelbz19 said:
See @kundalini ’s post above. I don’t think Fred and McTominay are amazing, far from it, but they’re pretty underrated at times. Someone like Neves who is routinely average wouldn’t displace either, and I’m not that convinced by Bissouma either.
Click to expand...

He is better than both, he's a very good player as we'll see next season when he makes a move to a better club (hopefully ours)
 
Adam-Utd said:
He's better than Rice and would fit our style of play way more, would be way cheaper too.

It's the type of signing Liverpool would make under Klopp.
Click to expand...

I agree. this is what I wrote last night in this thread but didn’t finish posting my reply.

This guy is actually really interesting. He looks like another one the likes of Liverpool would snap up for 40 million while we chase Rice and everyone will go on about how they are so efficient in the market and they aren’t wrong. It’s just a pretty obvious transfer, he can definitely pass it off well and seems to be press resistant and strong. He’s a very interesting player at a decent price point
 
Status
Not open for further replies.