Youri Tielemans

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bond19821982 said:
Waste of a post. While I am truly gutted we missed on Tielemans, probably better to just compare against McT and not Pereira. Also I have no idea why are you bringing up the 8 years history of Pereira. You are comparing him since he was playing in u17 ffs.

McT had a better season last season for us. May be the club has different ideas on the game time given to him.
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I'll reword this for better clarity, Pereria is a Manchester United player. Throughout Pereira's entire club career being a Manchester United player, he has not had a better influence in a full season in all professional levels (u17 / pros) compared to the stint that Tielemans has experienced at Leicester in 6 months. The answer why is simple because Tielemans is clearly a much better player.

There's really no need to highlight Fred's season, he has never been favoured by Solskjaer unless injuries are prevelant.

Mctomminay has primarily been utilised in Matic's position under Ole when Matic started sustaining injury. Once Nemanja returned to fitness his legs looked shot, we have no natural defensive midfield cover but Scott is the most disciplined midfielder at the club so he was given the role.

Mctomminay's natural position is not to shield the defence, we have a common tendency at this club to appropriate a players position by circumstances irrespective of their effectiveness. This is the reason why Valencia became a right back, why Ashley Young became a right back, why Rashford was mentored as a striker but forced wide under Mourinho, why Lingard / Mata are playing on the right despite being attacking midfielders. Mctomminay in Solskjaer's most used 4-3-3 system would occupy a similar position to Tielemans, so the element of comparison is completely just. Mctomminay is ideally more suited to replace Herrera than Matic.
 
Mastoness said:
Tielemans was a risk for 40mil and isn't proven enough but 9 PL games Longstaff for 30mil is a great fit for us :rolleyes:.
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How many times must it be said that those two players play in different positions. The attacking midfielder we are targetting in Bruno Fernandes. Whether you agree with that or not is fair game, but at least compare targets for the same position...
 
0le said:
How many times must it be said that those two players play in different positions. The attacking midfielder we are targetting in Bruno Fernandes. Whether you agree with that or not is fair game, but at least compare targets for the same position...
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I am aware that they play the different positions and I wasn't comparing them in that sense.
 
Eric's Seagull said:
Wild to anyone besides Woody and he still claims there is no value in the market. He's a fecking joke mate.
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I know this is hard for Utd fans to believe, but maybe not every player automatically wants to come to you? Especially at the moment, given your current plight.
 
Sterling Archer said:
Ramsey
Tielemans Rabiot

Would have cost 35 million in transfer fees. That's just wild to me.
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Eric's Seagull said:
Wild to anyone besides Woody and he still claims there is no value in the market. He's a fecking joke mate.
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To be fair, none of those players probably wanted to play for United and quite frankly with the other offers they have had, why would they?
 
Sterling Archer said:
Ramsey
Tielemans Rabiot

Would have cost 35 million in transfer fees. That's just wild to me.
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But how much in agent fees? Or signing on bonuses? for these two big free transfers? How about wages? You're looking at adding three quarters of a million to our weekly wage bill. How do other players react to the fact the Aaron Ramsey is earning twice as much as them and how does that effect future contract negotiations? What if they do not play well? How do we sell an underperforming player who earns 400,000 per week and is on a long term contract?
 
Eric's Seagull said:
Wild to anyone besides Woody and he still claims there is no value in the market. He's a fecking joke mate.
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Yeah. * Sigh *
Saw someone else post about the amount of talent available and on the move the summer, so started looking more into it. And its feckin depressing. That's from ten minutes of Google. You'd think the club could do better with their resources in six months than me on the shitter with last year's Pixel
 
Neil_Buchanan said:
But how much in agent fees? Or signing on bonuses? for these two big free transfers? How about wages? You're looking at adding three quarters of a million to our weekly wage bill. How do other players react to the fact the Aaron Ramsey is earning twice as much as them and how does that effect future contract negotiations? What if they do not play well? How do we sell an underperforming player who earns 400,000 per week and is on a long term contract?
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You know that's just arguing for the sake of arguing , right? Every transfer is a risk and you can say the same things. I mean, Ronaldo for his wage at his age and transfer fee...that was argued about in the same way.

What we can say is, of that list I made the risk is quite a bit lower for one big fat reason that so many of Sir Alex's transfers were successful:

Ramsey and Tielemans can handle the premier league. That alone is less of a risk than what we put into Fred from the Ukrainian league. Both coming off great seasons, unlike Sanchez who was dire for a year and a half when we signed him.

As for salaries, if penny pinching Juve can afford that and keep the squad settled as well as add a 19 year old for 300k then get out, we sure as hell should not be worrying
 
Sterling Archer said:
You know that's just arguing for the sake of arguing , right? Every transfer is a risk and you can say the same things. I mean, Ronaldo for his wage at his age and transfer fee...that was argued about in the same way.

What we can say is, of that list I made the risk is quite a bit lower for one big fat reason that so many of Sir Alex's transfers were successful:

Ramsey and Tielemans can handle the premier league. That alone is less of a risk than what we put into Fred from the Ukrainian league. Both coming off great seasons, unlike Sanchez who was dire for a year and a half when we signed him.

As for salaries, if penny pinching Juve can afford that and keep the squad settled as well as add a 19 year old for 300k then get out, we sure as hell should not be worrying
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You were simplifying things too much in your op, just offering some factors that need consideration. I'm not even saying it's a bad idea, it would improve our midfield greatly which I'm all for. I wouldn't want Ramsey though, even for half wages.
 
Dahnsouff said:
I know this is hard for Utd fans to believe, but maybe not every player automatically wants to come to you? Especially at the moment, given your current plight.
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Eh .. even in their current state I'd say 99% of players would rather move to Manchester United than Leicester City.

I mean .. more wages, higher league position, more prestige etc .. sure at Leicester you'll likely get a more settled system but United are still a more attractive option I reckon.

It's not like Leicester are in the CL or anything, you're still just an upper mid table PL team.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Eh .. even in their current state I'd say 99% of players would rather move to Manchester United than Leicester City.

I mean .. more wages, higher league position, more prestige etc .. sure at Leicester you'll likely get a more settled system but United are still a more attractive option I reckon.

It's not like Leicester are in the CL or anything, you're still just an upper mid table PL team.
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I am not for one second that players would rather go to Leicester City :lol:
Just that the current situation makes things unstable for Utd, so presumably Ed's job is harder than it used to be (CL, etc)
I fully expect Utd to overcome current woes and progress upwards, but as of right now - what I said holds true I think.
(Last post for me - so abuse cannot be responded to until tomorrow :) )
 
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Neil_Buchanan said:
You were simplifying things too much in your op, just offering some factors that need consideration. I'm not even saying it's a bad idea, it would improve our midfield greatly which I'm all for. I wouldn't want Ramsey though, even for half wages.
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I considered them as irrelevant. Even if you paid each of those lads 300k a week your looking at an equivalent of what we paid for DJ. In the end, it's the principal. The club talks about not being held to ransom and also about being the richest jn the world. Yet can't get in free transfers nor big sum ones with any sort of efficiency.

I don't care what we all think about the level of Alderweireld but him at 25 mil for a 4+1 contract would be infinitely better than having extended Young or Jones. And that's before we even consider that in negotiations we could improve the parity of the contract.

But then again mate, maybe I am thinking about it wrong. The club is so inept at every single transfer negotiation they'd probably shoot themselves in the foot in trying to work out the free transfer.
 
ravi2 said:
To be fair, none of those players probably wanted to play for United and quite frankly with the other offers they have had, why would they?
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I think that Tieleman's may have wanted to come, but I read he was waiting on the outcome of the Pogba situation, so that could be one one we lost out out on by not getting rid of Pogba quicker, assuming he does go, not sure how much truth there is in it though.
Not sure about Rabiot and Ramsey due to our lack of Champions League football, think we should have signed Ramsey years ago before he signed for Arsenal. I'm hoping that although we don't have Champions League football to offer that players see us as an exciting challenge. They may look at us and see the challenge of making us great again and if they come here and do well, they would go down in history as playing a significant part in getting us back to the top.
 
Sterling Archer said:
I considered them as irrelevant. Even if you paid each of those lads 300k a week your looking at an equivalent of what we paid for DJ. In the end, it's the principal. The club talks about not being held to ransom and also about being the richest jn the world. Yet can't get in free transfers nor big sum ones with any sort of efficiency.

I don't care what we all think about the level of Alderweireld but him at 25 mil for a 4+1 contract would be infinitely better than having extended Young or Jones. And that's before we even consider that in negotiations we could improve the parity of the contract.

But then again mate, maybe I am thinking about it wrong. The club is so inept at every single transfer negotiation they'd probably shoot themselves in the foot in trying to work out the free transfer.
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You are seriously misjudging what transfer fees and wages actually mean to a clubs financial situation. Or you just dont have a clue.
Wages are much more important to a club than transfer fees as long as we are not talking about players 28years+.
 
Sterling Archer said:
Yeah. * Sigh *
Saw someone else post about the amount of talent available and on the move the summer, so started looking more into it. And its feckin depressing. That's from ten minutes of Google. You'd think the club could do better with their resources in six months than me on the shitter with last year's Pixel
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Agree with your post it's sad but very true. We need too get some quality signings in before we fall further behind the bigger teams. I thought this was going to be one of our most important transfer windows in years at the moment, it has gone to shit bar 2 promising youngsters. As there is a bit of time time left I'm hoping Woody does something good but I don't have faith in him.
 
Johan07 said:
You are seriously misjudging what transfer fees and wages actually mean to a clubs financial situation. Or you just dont have a clue.
Wages are much more important to a club than transfer fees as long as we are not talking about players 28years+.
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Go ahead and explain it to me you financial maestro, you. Just make sure you don't jump ahead of the gun by assuming a lifetime of service. Just a single initial contract. No renewals.
 
Dahnsouff said:
I know this is hard for Utd fans to believe, but maybe not every player automatically wants to come to you? Especially at the moment, given your current plight.
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I am fully aware of that.. I can understand why: we have no Champions League football, are in a but of a mess in the process of a massive rebuild which is going to take time. Like I have said several times I'm hoping they want to come here to help us become great again.
 
He has signed permanently for Leicester so time to lock this up.
 
From the reports I have read he didn't knock us back, he got tired of waiting for us to make an offer, so told his agent to pursue the Leicester move, who had made their intentions clear. Did we want him, did we take too long, possibly, but this notion he had 2 offers on the table, one from us and one from Leicester and he chose them is inaccurate.
 
Sterling Archer said:
Go ahead and explain it to me you financial maestro, you. Just make sure you don't jump ahead of the gun by assuming a lifetime of service. Just a single initial contract. No renewals.
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Sigh... I know I shouldnt have responded to your posts to begin with. I will give you a clue:
A transfer fee is not an actual cost for the club. Its an investment. Do you think the Glazers care that we invested 50m in Wan Bissaka? Do you think they see this as money spent?
If he does not flop he will always be worth that or more. Plus the cost will be amortised over the term of the contract anyways.
Wages are a direct cost for the club though. Rabiot and Ramsey are on the same wages as Sanchez.
It means feck all that they came on a free, they are a much bigger cost for the club yearly.
We already have the biggest wage budget in the PL. The last thing we can be doing is signing free agents on massive wages.
Investing a couple of 100ms in promising young players on normal wages is well within our capacity though.
If you dont see the difference now I am not responding further, I know it was a mistake to begin with,
 
poleglass red said:
From the reports I have read he didn't knock us back, he got tired of waiting for us to make an offer, so told his agent to pursue the Leicester move, who had made their intentions clear. Did we want him, did we take too long, possibly, but this notion he had 2 offers on the table, one from us and one from Leicester and he chose them is inaccurate.
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Yeah it's nonsense. Belgian reliable journalist reported Tielemans was offered to Spurs, they didn't want him. He was offered to ManUtd, we didnt make any decision till Pogba issue was resolved and then he signed for Leicester.
 
bond19821982 said:
Ramsey is earning 300k + at Juve and we will never pay that esp given his injury record
Rabiot wants CL .
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Ramsey will earn approx 250k gross per week, something between Pogba and Martial.
 
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Nedved said:
Ramsey will earn approx 250-270/week, something between Pogba and Martial.
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Martial doesn't earn that much . Point being we wouldn't pay that much to Ramsey given his injury record.
 
Johan07 said:
Sigh... I know I shouldnt have responded to your posts to begin with. I will give you a clue:
A transfer fee is not an actual cost for the club. Its an investment. Do you think the Glazers care that we invested 50m in Wan Bissaka? Do you think they see this as money spent?
If he does not flop he will always be worth that or more. Plus the cost will be amortised over the term of the contract anyways.
Wages are a direct cost for the club though. Rabiot and Ramsey are on the same wages as Sanchez.
It means feck all that they came on a free, they are a much bigger cost for the club yearly.
We already have the biggest wage budget in the PL. The last thing we can be doing is signing free agents on massive wages.
Investing a couple of 100ms in promising young players on normal wages is well within our capacity though.
If you dont see the difference now I am not responding further, I know it was a mistake to begin with,
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Considering your certainty and condescension in your previous post I paused to give you the chance to lay out, in more explicit detail, how you're evaluating the cost and longterm expenses from contracts versus a transfer fee. I've seen many a back and forth over the years on the forum from posters on the same. In the end it's all offset by the value a certain player can bring to the club.

You haven't even touched on that level of detail and I'm disappointed because I might have learned something if you actually had something to teach. I certainly misjudged in calling you a transfer , contract maestro or whatever. Nay, seems like you were just trying to be a dick.
 
Dahnsouff said:
I am not for one second that players would rather go to Leicester City :lol:
Just that the current situation makes things unstable for Utd, so presumably Ed's job is harder than it used to be (CL, etc)
I fully expect Utd to overcome current woes and progress upwards, but as of right now - what I said holds true I think.
(Last post for me - so abuse cannot be responded to until tomorrow :) )
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It's harder, but in this situation you've got a player going to Leicester City. I think it's pretty clear that in most cases if United table an offer he'll go there instead.
 
We've a very similar player in Donny who Ole doesn't like , Youri would be on the bench in an Ole squad
 
2 years left on his contract. If he doesnt renew a lot of clubs will be interested.
 
Another one who was available yet we weren’t interested in. Leicester signed for £20m. Along with Fabinho, Partey that’s 3 top class midfielders we missed out on who I’m sure would have joined us.

Fred.
 
MUFC OK said:
Another one who was available yet we weren’t interested in. Leicester signed for £20m. Along with Fabinho, Partey that’s 3 top class midfielders we missed out on who I’m sure would have joined us.

Fred.
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It’s tough because of the 3 Partey was the only one I was actually annoyed we didn’t get.

And he’s the only one of the 3 who currently doesn’t look the part (it’s obviously far too early to properly judge him). Hindsight is a funny thing.

Fabinho would’ve been an absolute monster for us. He’d instantly be our best CM or our best CB. Or RB. Probably do a better job up top as well.
 
Is he really that good?

What kind of CM is he in peoples eyes?

He is nothing like a player we dont have and we are dying for either.

He isnt a deep lying playmaker, Pogba is better than him, he isnt a ball winning midfielder.

Seems like some people are crying about him after he scored against us.
 
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