Youri Tielemans | signs for Villa

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I’m starting to think he would be a good squad option if he can be got cheaply. Eriksen drops off very sharply after half time so I could even see these two getting 45 minutes each in some games.

It’s not a long term solution but we are light in the Eriksen position. He’s young enough to have an epiphany and sort his work rate out. ETH seems like a man who could wring a bit more effort out of him.

I doubt we’ll go for him but if we do it will be driven by ETH and at this point I trust his judgement more than anyone else’s.
 
#07 said:
Yeah but Kroos is basically unique in world football. Stastically he's in the 99th percentile for passes attempted, 98th for passes completed and 99 for progressive passes. That's basically alien. By comparison, Fernandez is in the 99th percentile for passes attempted and 99th percentile for progressive passes, but 86th percentile for passes completed. De Jong in the 90th percentile for passes attempted, 93rd for passes completed and 86th for progressive passes. Kroos is out on his own. He's not only hitting a high number of forward passes, he's nailing them pretty much every time. MacAllister isn't even in the same ballpark statistically as these players.

The reason I mentioned Caicedo and Kessie is that there are more than one way to skin a cat. Kessie, particularly, has quite a high number of dribbles completed. Having someone dribble from centre midfield can be another way to open up an opponent, if you don't have someone with Kroos like powers of passing. DeJong's dribbling numbers are elite, significantly better than Kessie's. However, I just don't buy that De Jong is going to leave Barcelona unless they put him in a canon and fire him from the walls of the city's gothic quarter. DeJong would be the perfect blend of passing and dribbling but it just aint gonna happen.
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To have a decent all round CM who can dribble is the Holy Grail. Dribbling is arguably the best way to create space for the players ahead because every time you beat a player with a dribble, another defender has to leave their man to engage with you.

De Jong is the best I have seen at this in recent years; when he decides to go, he can carry the ball from box to box - rapidly. I wish we could get him but in the meantime, we need cover for Eriksen because we look much worse when he is either not playing or knackered at the end of games. Someone good in possession and positionally astute and a team player. And affordable. And generally gettable.
 
Not similar players but Leicester are absolute rubbish and their players stock is at an all time low. Tielemens, soumare, ndidi all highly coveted in recent years. Great time to buy given how poor Leicester look
 
I still think he’s definitely a good ball player. He could be a handy squad option but what we really need is an understudy for Casemiro. That ball winner, deep play maker is vital to how we are playing now. If anything happens to the Brazilian or he starts to drop off we are back to square one with the options we currently have.
 
Seems like someone that needs to play a lot to get back his game if it's even possible and really should be looking at a club to be playing each week. Reus and Tielemans don't' sound like genuine targets, maybe Youri can be a future prospect or sell on, we get some cover now and see it how it goes.
 
Jeffthered said:
  1. Ok, like who?
  2. Tielemans is a good football player. To suggest that he has already 'peaked' or cannot reach previous levels of play is without foundation. Look at Rashford not too long ago for example (add Shaw to that list too...)
  3. *Is he any poorer, off the ball than Eriksen? Bruno?* I don't think so, and I wouldn't buy Tielamans for his ball-winning skills. That's Casimiero, Fred, Mctominay etc..
  4. And if we sign a starter, who would you suggest we drop to the bench?
  5. And why not buy a good player, at decent value, and aim to improve them?
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Eriksen doesn't have great mobility but he is intelligent and disciplined when he's on the pitch. Against city, for example, he stuck to rodri and blocked off passing lanes until he tired and was a significant part of us stifling city for the first 45. Whenever I see Leicester play and they aren't playing well, Tielemans is not tracking runners or keeping up with the game off the ball. I don't think you can trust him like ten Hag trusts Eriksen.

Bruno is about the hardest worker in our first 11 off the ball, and he initiates most of our front presses. Saying that he is no better than Tielemans off the ball does him a massive disservice.

If Tielemans had started against city in place of either of them I have no doubt we'd have lost.
 
redshaw said:
Seems like someone that needs to play a lot to get back his game if it's even possible and really should be looking at a club to be playing each week. Reus and Tielemans don't' sound like genuine targets, maybe Youri can be a future prospect or sell on, we get some cover now and see it how it goes.
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I really liked Reus about 6 or years ago but now he's past it, surely?

Model pro though despite and through all his injuries, and at his peak he was totally lethal.
 
I think he is a very good player who has lost a bit of motivation at Leicester. Could well be worth picking up.
 
Jeffthered said:
Leicester City have a few players I wouldn't mind considering. It's clear they are going through the motions, and you can envisage many of those players moving on, as well as Rodgers. The club needs a bit of a refresh, like we did (and continue to..). Nothing wrong with that.

Vardy. Tielemans. Maddison. Barnes. Albrighton. Soyencu. These are v decent Premiership players, who could benefit from a change. Maddison aside, I don't think we are seeing the best out of any of them. Maybe not world-beaters, but I wouldn't say no to any of those players personally. You cannot judge Leicester on current form, the team is a mess, inconsistent and without direction.

Just my opinion.
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Do we really want to be buying players who are just going thru the motions - no thanks
 
If you could get him for slightly more than you could sell mct for it'd be a no brainer. He'd be a great rotation option with eriksen
 
2 years ago I thought he has a very high ceiling, looked a bit like Gundogan to me (good b2b technical midfielder, a bit light defensively but still can play in midfield 2). I'd trust ETH to get the best out of him. I think he would be a good option. Isn't he injury prone though?
 
I'd take him to replace Donny in the squad/competition for Eriksen in CM (with Eriksen also playing as a 10 on occasion).

I'd be a bit worried if he replaces McTominay though. We're fecked without Casemiro.
 
OrcaFat said:
To have a decent all round CM who can dribble is the Holy Grail. Dribbling is arguably the best way to create space for the players ahead because every time you beat a player with a dribble, another defender has to leave their man to engage with you.

De Jong is the best I have seen at this in recent years; when he decides to go, he can carry the ball from box to box - rapidly. I wish we could get him but in the meantime, we need cover for Eriksen because we look much worse when he is either not playing or knackered at the end of games. Someone good in possession and positionally astute and a team player. And affordable. And generally gettable.
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I think that's 1990s talk. I love watching De Jong play, but dribbling destabilizes both teams and Eriksen keeps it safer by being willing to concede possession going longer.

In some ways this is the old Iniesta vs Xavi argument. There's probably no Barca superfans here, but I'd be curious to know how Barca did when Iniesta filled in at #8, though maybe they just used Yaya or Keita or whoever.

Tough to write about these guys and be excited for Youri Tielemans, though he was a good player for Leicester a few years back and isn't too old to recover his best (and was showing it for Belgium at times). Makes you wish that if we were going for a bargain player it would be on a potential Cazorla at the bottom of La Liga or whoever the scouts like most among the 17-19 year old Croats.
 
GreenFieldsGoldenBarley said:
Eriksen doesn't have great mobility but he is intelligent and disciplined when he's on the pitch. Against city, for example, he stuck to rodri and blocked off passing lanes until he tired and was a significant part of us stifling city for the first 45. Whenever I see Leicester play and they aren't playing well, Tielemans is not tracking runners or keeping up with the game off the ball. I don't think you can trust him like ten Hag trusts Eriksen.
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It's possible he's just lost his hunger playing for Leicester. Not the most endearing trait, but it happens. Roy Keane wouldn't sign him, but then again we don't want Roy Keane making our transfer decisions.

I'd go for someone quicker, and if we do it you have to think that Ten Hag's budget is low and he's talked himself into some 50M striker or we think we can get Osimhen or Kane for 80M (I think if we're honest we know a Kane deal would get insanely big even with 1 year to go to an English team, and we'd have to just hope he ages like a Sheringham or Giroud and can be a good 1 in 3 striker even after a decline), or he's just praying De Gea gets through the year okay but sees our passing from keeper as a huge issue and wants money for him. Or he doesn't rate McTominay and wants him gone in January with a good offer from I guess Newcastle (I would have guessed them or West Ham) on the table.
 
GreenFieldsGoldenBarley said:
I really liked Reus about 6 or years ago but now he's past it, surely?

Model pro though despite and through all his injuries, and at his peak he was totally lethal.
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Reus makes sense if all of the conditions apply:

1) We're selling McTominay and buying a proper DM to back up Casemiro.
2) We're not buying a #8, and it's Eriksen, Fred and one of Mainoo or Iqbal in the first team next year.
3) Sancho is going, either on loan or permanently.
4) Amad is going on loan again, I guess to a team in a Big 5 league to get 30 games at mid-table level. Fulham would be fun if they don't add another winger.
 
NoPace said:
I think that's 1990s talk. I love watching De Jong play, but dribbling destabilizes both teams and Eriksen keeps it safer by being willing to concede possession going longer.

In some ways this is the old Iniesta vs Xavi argument. There's probably no Barca superfans here, but I'd be curious to know how Barca did when Iniesta filled in at #8, though maybe they just used Yaya or Keita or whoever.

Tough to write about these guys and be excited for Youri Tielemans, though he was a good player for Leicester a few years back and isn't too old to recover his best (and was showing it for Belgium at times). Makes you wish that if we were going for a bargain player it would be on a potential Cazorla at the bottom of La Liga or whoever the scouts like most among the 17-19 year old Croats.
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I’m not sure I understand you. It sounds like you’re saying dribbling is bad.
 
OrcaFat said:
I’m not sure I understand you. It sounds like you’re saying dribbling is bad.
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I'm saying it can lead to really bad turnovers that are easier to turn into counters then missing a pass vertically, for obvious reasons. A lot of the possession stuff is ultimately defensive. A player like De Jong creates less, but more threatening, counter attacks against him, whereas a player like Eriksen who can't dribble so hits a ball upfield when that's the only option, will turn over the ball more but the (higher number) of counters from that will be less individually threatening.
 
Trequarista10 said:
I'd take him to replace Donny in the squad/competition for Eriksen in CM (with Eriksen also playing as a 10 on occasion).

I'd be a bit worried if he replaces McTominay though. We're fecked without Casemiro.
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I agree that Tielemans would be excellent under Ten Hag and give Erikson a night off, or fill in for injuries. A perfect understudy for Casemiro, could be Neves. But it looks likely that he is off to Liverpool now.
 
Wheato said:
I agree that Tielemans would be excellent under Ten Hag and give Erikson a night off, or fill in for injuries. A perfect understudy for Casemiro, could be Neves. But it looks likely that he is off to Liverpool now.
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Yeah could definitely rotate with Eriksen,however have others already said we badly need an understudy for Casemiro
 
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Watched the Mini Match for the Forest-Leicester game and he seems to have played as a 10 and both Forest goals began with sequences in which he either gave the ball away or looked incapable of beating a man when pressed. I'm against this now. Feels like a Van Der Beek/Schweinsteiger thing where the legs are gone, which as crazy as it seems at 26, he's played 49 games a season (club and country) since he was 16. Rooney never made a team of the month after that age, never mind a PFA team of the year. So he really might be on the proper decline and should be seen as like a 28-29 year old.

I think I'm against this, though would be fine with a 4 month loan and us paying a few million and sending them Van De Beek, Pellistri (they need a RW if they don't sign Gonzalez from Fiorentina or another) or even Sancho on loan.
 
Red in STL said:
Do we really want to be buying players who are just going thru the motions - no thanks
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Hold on, why not? Rashford, Shaw, Dalot are three, three examples of three of our starting XI who all have been '..going through the motions..' at United. Now take a look at their form.

So yes, I think that targeting good players who are not playing to their potential should be something we should do. I'm fed up of this constant 'transfer watch for the big name, most coveted star etc..' Genuine marquee signings are important, but targeting players and developing them is good coaching.

From top talents like KDB, Sadio Mane, Van Dijk..to the likes of Robertson at Liverpool who was playing div 1 in Scots league! Riyad Mahrez was bought by Leicester for nothing. Odegaard at Arsenal was going nowhere at Real. All players who had potential, and were coached to become the outstanding players they are. That's good football club management. Look at Arsenal's left back, in and out the side at city, and now look, one of the most consistent performers at the side who are probably now favourites to win the Prem.

Good clubs and good managers take players and make them better. So yes, I do think we should consider players who may, for whatever reason, be 'going through the motions..'
 
NoPace said:
It's possible he's just lost his hunger playing for Leicester. Not the most endearing trait, but it happens. Roy Keane wouldn't sign him, but then again we don't want Roy Keane making our transfer decisions.

I'd go for someone quicker, and if we do it you have to think that Ten Hag's budget is low and he's talked himself into some 50M striker or we think we can get Osimhen or Kane for 80M (I think if we're honest we know a Kane deal would get insanely big even with 1 year to go to an English team, and we'd have to just hope he ages like a Sheringham or Giroud and can be a good 1 in 3 striker even after a decline), or he's just praying De Gea gets through the year okay but sees our passing from keeper as a huge issue and wants money for him. Or he doesn't rate McTominay and wants him gone in January with a good offer from I guess Newcastle (I would have guessed them or West Ham) on the table.
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I think I've kinda talked myself put of thinking it's a good idea - but there's little harm if he's happy to come and be a bit-part player and remain hungry. I think his attitude has been questioned a few times before, and in this case I'm wondering if he'd be happy to come in on the understanding he'd have to train hard for a bit-part role.

I imagine we could get someone with a lower profile who better fits ten Hag's targets of high energy. That said, if our bald genius goes for him I trust him completely to make it work!
 
NoPace said:
Reus makes sense if all of the conditions apply:

1) We're selling McTominay and buying a proper DM to back up Casemiro.
2) We're not buying a #8, and it's Eriksen, Fred and one of Mainoo or Iqbal in the first team next year.
3) Sancho is going, either on loan or permanently.
4) Amad is going on loan again, I guess to a team in a Big 5 league to get 30 games at mid-table level. Fulham would be fun if they don't add another winger.
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I don't know what his form is like, but i actually quite like the idea of a veteran of his experience in our attack line now I think about it. All our forwards are pretty young bar weghorst, and none have the experience of cl knockouts that Reus has. And he's no Ronaldo, he's not gonna demand to play or rock the boat.

Although i also don't think we'd let go of Sancho (at least I hope not). We've invested too much in him.

We need an 8 and a 6 backup before that too, and I'd be disappointed if we prioritised Reus.
 
He was a hot property just last season. Not sure if he's the perfect fit right now but seems the type of player Ten Haf could coach back to their best.
 
GreenFieldsGoldenBarley said:
I really liked Reus about 6 or years ago but now he's past it, surely?

Model pro though despite and through all his injuries, and at his peak he was totally lethal.
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Injuries completely wrecked his career. Without all the serious injuries he would have been a helluva player.

11/12Abdominal Influenza3 days-
11/12Adductor problems10 days-
10/11Muscular problems10 days-
10/11Torn Muscle Fibre7 days1
10/11Abdominal Influenza3 days-
09/10Twisted knee3 days
14/15Torn ankle ligament45 days7
14/15Ankle fracture10 days-
14/15Ruptured ankle aigament28 days7
13/14Ruptured syndesmotic ligament66 days1
13/14Muscular problems10 days2
13/14Torn Muscle Fibre7 days2
13/14Bruise on ankle3 days1
13/14Ruptured intraarticular ligament initiation in the ankle9 days-
13/14Abdominal Influenza3 days-
13/14Infection0 days-
12/13Muscular problems7 days1
12/13Abdominal Strain4 days1
12/13Tear in the abductor muscle3 days-
12/13Metatarsal bone bruise3 days-
11/12Fractured Toe17 days
16/17Muscular problems7 days-
16/17Heel Bone Injury4 days1
16/17Pubitis176 days17
15/16Rest4 days2
15/16Rest3 days1
15/16Infection7 days1
15/16Adductor problems7 days2
15/16Adductor problems3 days1
15/16Pulled hamstring at the adductors11 days2
15/16Muscular problems3 days1
15/16Toe Injury17 days2
15/16Rest0 days1
14/15Muscular problems14 days2
14/15Adductor problems14 days3
14/15Bruised Knee0 days
19/20Tear in a joint capsule3 days1
19/20Muscular problems4 days1
19/20Muscular problems4 days1
19/20Cold4 days1
18/19Pulled hamstring at the adductors19 days4
18/19Stretched Ligament4 days1
18/19Abdominal Influenza5 days-
18/19Thigh Problems2 days1
18/19Knee Problems10 days-
17/18Muscular problems20 days3
17/18Fitness31 days4
17/18Cruciate Ligament Rupture220 days27
16/17Torn muscle bundle38 days8
16/17Bruise0 days-
16/17Thigh Problems3 days
22/23Ankle Inflammation56 days2
22/23Ankle problems17 days5
22/23Ruptured ankle aigament24 days4
21/22Torn Muscle Fibre24 days-
21/22Rest7 days-
21/22Ill21 days3
21/22Minor Knock11 days2
21/22Knee Problems4 days1
21/22Knee Problems3 days-
20/21Bruised Ankle18 days1
20/21Tendonitis32 days-
19/20Fitness79 days9
19/20Muscle Injury85 days7
19/20Torn Muscle Fibre21 days1
19/20Ankle problems9 days
 
NoPace said:
I'm saying it can lead to really bad turnovers that are easier to turn into counters then missing a pass vertically, for obvious reasons. A lot of the possession stuff is ultimately defensive. A player like De Jong creates less, but more threatening, counter attacks against him, whereas a player like Eriksen who can't dribble so hits a ball upfield when that's the only option, will turn over the ball more but the (higher number) of counters from that will be less individually threatening.
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I suppose the team have to be coached to adapt to mitigate such risks. I can’t imagine ETH was wanting to sign FDJ only to then ask him not to dribble.
 
Jeffthered said:
Hold on, why not? Rashford, Shaw, Dalot are three, three examples of three of our starting XI who all have been '..going through the motions..' at United. Now take a look at their form.

So yes, I think that targeting good players who are not playing to their potential should be something we should do. I'm fed up of this constant 'transfer watch for the big name, most coveted star etc..' Genuine marquee signings are important, but targeting players and developing them is good coaching.

From top talents like KDB, Sadio Mane, Van Dijk..to the likes of Robertson at Liverpool who was playing div 1 in Scots league! Riyad Mahrez was bought by Leicester for nothing. Odegaard at Arsenal was going nowhere at Real. All players who had potential, and were coached to become the outstanding players they are. That's good football club management. Look at Arsenal's left back, in and out the side at city, and now look, one of the most consistent performers at the side who are probably now favourites to win the Prem.

Good clubs and good managers take players and make them better. So yes, I do think we should consider players who may, for whatever reason, be 'going through the motions..'
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They were already our players so it's not the same, there's also a big difference between targeting players who are not fulfilling their potential vs players who are basically downing tools, all those players you mentioned, as far as I'm aware, weren't accused of not trying, they were just deemed unsuitable for their teams
 
OrcaFat said:
I suppose the team have to be coached to adapt to mitigate such risks. I can’t imagine ETH was wanting to sign FDJ only to then ask him not to dribble.
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No question. That would be bizarre. I'm just saying I think dribbling is on the way down in the middle.
 
justboy68 said:
He was a hot property just last season. Not sure if he's the perfect fit right now but seems the type of player Ten Haf could coach back to their best.
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Last season for Leicester his form fell off a cliff and the fans there went from wanting him to sign a new contract to wanting him gone asap. It was well known that with 12 months left on his deal he could be had for 25M this summer and it says volumes for how he is perceived by clubs that not a single offer was made for him. I don't know if he has picked it up this season but the general decline of Leicester suggests he has not been that influential, he is a free at the end of the season and right now I am not sure who will want him.
 
NoPace said:
No question. That would be bizarre. I'm just saying I think dribbling is on the way down in the middle.
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I would agree that you want your dribbling to be done by someone who is clever enough to know when to do it and good enough to execute. The way the game is these days and the greater athleticism of the average player, there’s probably fewer guys who can actually do it without being a liability. Done well it is a devastating weapon - I’ve seen De Jong put the burners on and take three players out of the game.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Not similar players but Leicester are absolute rubbish and their players stock is at an all time low. Tielemens, soumare, ndidi all highly coveted in recent years. Great time to buy given how poor Leicester look
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James Justin is out for a long time, but I think he'd be a good fit at RB for us. Comfortable in midfield, versatile (almost cracked the England team at LB). Lots of the qualities we're looking for in a backup RB if Wan-Bissaka is going. And Leicester could use some quick cash now, but this sort of thing doesn't really happen at the early stages of an ACL recovery.
 
Gandalf said:
Last season for Leicester his form fell off a cliff and the fans there went from wanting him to sign a new contract to wanting him gone asap. It was well known that with 12 months left on his deal he could be had for 25M this summer and it says volumes for how he is perceived by clubs that not a single offer was made for him. I don't know if he has picked it up this season but the general decline of Leicester suggests he has not been that influential, he is a free at the end of the season and right now I am not sure who will want him.
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Just wondering whether Ten Hag might fancy his chances at getting him back to his best. We've seen him be really good in the past and having a terrible season is not unheard of. I believe he's still only 25? Just look at someone like Rashford this season compared to last. Imagine picking him up for a bargain basement price and then getting him back on song as a solid rotation option.
 
NoPace said:
James Justin is out for a long time, but I think he'd be a good fit at RB for us. Comfortable in midfield, versatile (almost cracked the England team at LB). Lots of the qualities we're looking for in a backup RB if Wan-Bissaka is going. And Leicester could use some quick cash now, but this sort of thing doesn't really happen at the early stages of an ACL recovery.
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JJ has played left back more than right back in his professional career and I wouldn't say he is comfortable in midfield either really. A torn Achilles too is a tough injury to come back from, the ACL injury was his previous absence.

I'm not judging most of our players now until the self publicist is removed and a manager appointed
 
For the role he plays I'd prefer Enzo or De Jong and those two are currently better than Tielemans (according to reviews) and would do the job Ten Hag wants better
 
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