Your Hidden Gems or under the radar - Wanted Signings

I think he's injured and might miss the games against us but Malick Fofana looks a talent from Lyon.
 
criticalanalysis said:
How good is he really? Not watched much of Bournemouth but saw the Spain Netherlands game in the background and when he played against us. He looks decent for a 19 year old playing at the highest level i.e doesn't look overawed but nothing screams elite? With his athletic profile and technical ability, he could be promising but it could be also be another Christensen situation.

I'd say the same about Yoro too, although a little less tentatively.

Both would need to show some serious physical growth (muscle density, core strength etc) ala Saliba before I would start getting too hyped on them.
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I'm hardly a scout but he would be awesome as the left sided CB for us, and would be a significant upgrade on Lisandro.

He never looks bothered really, like one of those weirdos that would come out later and say he doesn't like football and never watches it etc. He looks like he spends his free time skateboarding, or chilling at the beach. But he's quality on the ball and appears to have a good passing range, and his defending is excellent. And he's not even twenty.
 
Sea-Cow said:
I'm hardly a scout but he would be awesome as the left sided CB for us, and would be a significant upgrade on Lisandro.

He never looks bothered really, like one of those weirdos that would come out later and say he doesn't like football and never watches it etc. He looks like he spends his free time skateboarding, or chilling at the beach. But he's quality on the ball and appears to have a good passing range, and his defending is excellent. And he's not even twenty.
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And in comparison to Yoro, as others have already said Huijsen looks like he barely breaks a sweat out there in the Prem, and occasionally Yoro gets rinsed and looks like it might be a step too far for him right now, at this age. Which, to be fair, is understandable!

And it could also have something to do with the team around them and their defensive partners, midfield cover, etc. etc. Because the other Bournemouth CB is that tough looking Ukrainian bastard who is not too bad himself, while Yoro could be next to Big Harry one day or Lisandro, with Onana behind him.... Not exactly apples to apples.
 
Sea-Cow said:
I'm hardly a scout but he would be awesome as the left sided CB for us, and would be a significant upgrade on Lisandro.

He never looks bothered really, like one of those weirdos that would come out later and say he doesn't like football and never watches it etc. He looks like he spends his free time skateboarding, or chilling at the beach. But he's quality on the ball and appears to have a good passing range, and his defending is excellent. And he's not even twenty.
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He can actually play in any role in a back 3. His talent ceiling is mind boggling. I personally expect Real Madrid to bag him in the summer.
 
WouterWeghorst said:
This is totally ruining football for me. Multi club ownership signing every single player on the planet and just moving players about at one point.
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Yes its becoming a bit of a joke. I have no problem with clubs having feeder clubs in the lower leagues or like we did with Royal Antwerp . If you loaning out lads from the academy its a smart move. But this signing players to stop others and then letting waste away on loan is shite for player and future of football
 
My hidden gem or under the radar list would be (in the positions I'd say are the top priorities):
- ST: Josh Sargent (25). Proven himself over three seasons playing for Norwich in the Championship. A well rounded striker. Better goals/per min ratio then Gyokeres in the same league for reference.
- CM: Hayden Hackney (22). Best playmaker in the Championship. A new Carrick (playing under Carrick at Middlesbrough).
- CM: Sergi Altimira (23). Only his second season in the top flight of spanish footbal, but a regular for Betis now. Solid passer and technically sound, good defensively and would raise the physicality of our team. Reminiscent of Rodri.
- RWB: Tom Fellows (21). Two footed, good crosser and a good dribbler, has pace and a good frame. Primarily played right mid/winger so would need some adaptation, but played fullback in League Two a couple of seasons ago.. 11 assists for West Brom this season.
 
userman said:
My hidden gem or under the radar list would be (in the positions I'd say are the top priorities):
- ST: Josh Sargent (25). Proven himself over three seasons playing for Norwich in the Championship. A well rounded striker. Better goals/per min ratio then Gyokeres in the same league for reference.
- CM: Hayden Hackney (22). Best playmaker in the Championship. A new Carrick (playing under Carrick at Middlesbrough).
- CM: Sergi Altimira (23). Only his second season in the top flight of spanish footbal, but a regular for Betis now. Solid passer and technically sound, good defensively and would raise the physicality of our team. Reminiscent of Rodri.
- RWB: Tom Fellows (21). Two footed, good crosser and a good dribbler, has pace and a good frame. Primarily played right mid/winger so would need some adaptation, but played fullback in League Two a couple of seasons ago.. 11 assists for West Brom this season.
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IMHO Hackney should be in the must buy category. He will be cheap. Is built for epl football. Plus has been coached by Carrick how to play center holding midfield
 
I still think Malik Tillman (22 Y, PSV) will be great additional talent who offer versatility no matter in 8, 6, or Left 10 positions.
He did well almost every positions both in the Eredivisie and Champion league.

In addition, Lennon Miller (18 Y, Motherwell) is another young talent that it might be worth to take the risk.
He's 8, 6, 10 who excel well in those positions and show very good promise despite of young age.
 
So I've posted in the Hidden Gems thread that United should be seriously looking at signing Kevin Lopes who plays as a left winger for Shakthar Donesk and over the last number of months my conviction has only gotten stronger. I work in football data/analytics and to me he's by far the most standout option for United at the left 10 given his profile of age/ability/availability and potential. He's already better than any winger United have on the books and that's including Rashford/Sancho/Antony etc

I've spent the last couple of days watching all of his champions league games for Shakthar and made a compilation of his play, unfortunately I couldn't find the game vs Arsenal as this was copyrighted but opponents are: Bayern/PSV/Brest/Young Boys/Atalanta/Dortmund. I've tried to pick clips that highlight every area of his game from pressing opposition defenders, receiving the ball into space/running behind defensive line, receiving the ball into feet and taking on defenders, crossing left foot and right as well as goal scoring.

I know some posters will say anyone can look good in a highlight reel but bear in mind that the entire reel is taken from just 6 games and statistically he's incredibly impressive.

He's the #1 dribbler in the champions league this season with 5.1 per game, for comparison Garnacho averages 1.3 while Rashford is 1.6. Most elite level dribblers complete around 50%+ of dribble attempts (general guideline in analytics) Doku who is the best dribbler in the premier league averages 52%, Kevin is 59%. For comparison Garnacho is 33% and Rashford is 40%

In the Ukrainian league he has averaged 6.4 dribbles per game, Willian averaged 3.5 when he played for Shakhtar and Douglas Costa averaged 4.

He's 99th percentile for: Goals, Successful take ons, Carries into penalty area/progressive carries/non penalty goals

90+ percentile for: Goals+ assists, Through balls, crosses into penalty area, progressive carrying distance, shots on target/fouls drawn.

United rank 19th in the premier league from chances created from take ons. We went from being an average side in this department with Rashford/Sancho etc to a relegation level team. Which is a large part of why we struggle so badly to score goals and why our strikers have such poor returns.

It simply won't be possible to replicate Amorim's Sporting style without at least 1 winger with this type of profile because that team had the #1 and #2 most creative forwards in Portugal playing alongside Gyokeres. With Rashford/Sancho and Antony all gone and none expected to return this position has to be priority #1 for United, and Kevin is an exceptional talent who would be a massive addition to any top team in Europe.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

 
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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
His numbers are still impressive numbers for a guy supposedly having a bad season.
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Alright, I’ve just checked. My info is outdated, apologies. The Boro fans were panning him about 3 months ago when I last checked. Apparently he’s been bossing it since then and the general view is that he is a great player (PL suited for sure but maybe not top 6 worthy) who was a victim of Boro’s strange start to the season.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
So I've posted in the Hidden Gems thread that United should be seriously looking at signing Kevin Lopes who plays as a left winger for Shakthar Donesk and over the last number of months my conviction has only gotten stronger. I work in football data/analytics and to me he's by far the most standout option for United at the left 10 given his profile of age/ability/availability and potential. He's already better than any winger United have on the books and that's including Rashford/Sancho/Antony etc

I've spent the last couple of days watching all of his champions league games for Shakthar and made a compilation of his play, unfortunately I couldn't find the game vs Arsenal as this was copyrighted but opponents are: Bayern/PSV/Brest/Young Boys/Atalanta/Dortmund. I've tried to pick clips that highlight every area of his game from pressing opposition defenders, receiving the ball into space/running behind defensive line, receiving the ball into feet and taking on defenders, crossing left foot and right as well as goal scoring.

I know some posters will say anyone can look good in a highlight reel but bear in mind that the entire reel is taken from just 6 games and statistically he's incredibly impressive.

He's the #1 dribbler in the champions league this season with 5.1 per game, for comparison Garnacho averages 1.3 while Rashford is 1.6. Most elite level dribblers complete around 50%+ of dribble attempts (general guideline in analytics) Doku who is the best dribbler in the premier league averages 52%, Kevin is 59%. For comparison Garnacho is 33% and Rashford is 40%

In the Ukrainian league he has averaged 6.4 dribbles per game, Willian averaged 3.5 when he played for Shakhtar and Douglas Costa averaged 4.

He's 99th percentile for: Goals, Successful take ons, Carries into penalty area/progressive carries/non penalty goals

90+ percentile for: Goals+ assists, Through balls, crosses into penalty area, progressive carrying distance, shots on target/fouls drawn.

United rank 19th in the premier league from chances created from take ons. We went from being an average side in this department with Rashford/Sancho etc to a relegation level team. Which is a large part of why we struggle so badly to score goals and why our strikers have such poor returns.

It simply won't be possible to replicate Amorim's Sporting style without at least 1 winger with this type of profile because that team had the #1 and #2 most creative forwards in Portugal playing alongside Gyokeres. With Rashford/Sancho and Antony all gone and none expected to return this position has to be priority #1 for United, and Kevin is an exceptional talent who would be a massive addition to any top team in Europe.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

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Had a skim through the video and he looks good. Good pace, acceleration, close ball control and plays with his head up. Not many clips of his general play with a set defence and build up but looks like he has a decent all around game. Follows a long line of Brazilian players from that Shaktar-imported-factory-line like Willian and Costa.

The only issue is Shaktar would probably want big money ala Mudryk.

If available at a good price, we should be looking at this. Also since Fred has left, we are missing a first name Brazilian name in the squad.
 
criticalanalysis said:
Had a skim through the video and he looks good. Good pace, acceleration, close ball control and plays with his head up. Not many clips of his general play with a set defence and build up but looks like he has a decent all around game. Follows a long line of Brazilian players from that Shaktar-imported-factory-line like Willian and Costa.

The only issue is Shaktar would probably want big money ala Mudryk.

If available at a good price, we should be looking at this. Also since Fred has left, we are missing a first name Brazilian name in the squad.
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Our 100 million euros winger?
 
SparkedIntoLife said:
Alright, I’ve just checked. My info is outdated, apologies. The Boro fans were panning him about 3 months ago when I last checked. Apparently he’s been bossing it since then and the general view is that he is a great player (PL suited for sure but maybe not top 6 worthy) who was a victim of Boro’s strange start to the season.
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No biggie, It happens. I just feel he is the kinda player like Neves when he came up with Wolves or Eze when he joined Palace who will take to epl football like a fish to water. I'd rather prefer us ti be the ones to take thaf chance on him. Than wait, he shines else where then have to pay "a house and one kidney" to get him....
 
Hackney would be a clever signing. Wouldn't cost a fortune yet and we should have a fair chance thanks to the Carrick connection. Maybe we could send someone like Kone on loan the other way.
 
Sea-Cow said:
He looks very similar to Big Zirk. That goal he scored against Spain U-21 was so nice! I love a Rooney-vs-Bolton-full pitch counter attack-dink over the onrushing keeper.
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Definitely, and if you look at his Fbref comparisons, Zirkzee actually comes up. Might not make sense unless we do happen to sell Zirkzee and looking to bring in another player who has similar attributes but a better goalscoring touch.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
So I've posted in the Hidden Gems thread that United should be seriously looking at signing Kevin Lopes who plays as a left winger for Shakthar Donesk and over the last number of months my conviction has only gotten stronger. I work in football data/analytics and to me he's by far the most standout option for United at the left 10 given his profile of age/ability/availability and potential. He's already better than any winger United have on the books and that's including Rashford/Sancho/Antony etc

I've spent the last couple of days watching all of his champions league games for Shakthar and made a compilation of his play, unfortunately I couldn't find the game vs Arsenal as this was copyrighted but opponents are: Bayern/PSV/Brest/Young Boys/Atalanta/Dortmund. I've tried to pick clips that highlight every area of his game from pressing opposition defenders, receiving the ball into space/running behind defensive line, receiving the ball into feet and taking on defenders, crossing left foot and right as well as goal scoring.

I know some posters will say anyone can look good in a highlight reel but bear in mind that the entire reel is taken from just 6 games and statistically he's incredibly impressive.

He's the #1 dribbler in the champions league this season with 5.1 per game, for comparison Garnacho averages 1.3 while Rashford is 1.6. Most elite level dribblers complete around 50%+ of dribble attempts (general guideline in analytics) Doku who is the best dribbler in the premier league averages 52%, Kevin is 59%. For comparison Garnacho is 33% and Rashford is 40%

In the Ukrainian league he has averaged 6.4 dribbles per game, Willian averaged 3.5 when he played for Shakhtar and Douglas Costa averaged 4.

He's 99th percentile for: Goals, Successful take ons, Carries into penalty area/progressive carries/non penalty goals

90+ percentile for: Goals+ assists, Through balls, crosses into penalty area, progressive carrying distance, shots on target/fouls drawn.

United rank 19th in the premier league from chances created from take ons. We went from being an average side in this department with Rashford/Sancho etc to a relegation level team. Which is a large part of why we struggle so badly to score goals and why our strikers have such poor returns.

It simply won't be possible to replicate Amorim's Sporting style without at least 1 winger with this type of profile because that team had the #1 and #2 most creative forwards in Portugal playing alongside Gyokeres. With Rashford/Sancho and Antony all gone and none expected to return this position has to be priority #1 for United, and Kevin is an exceptional talent who would be a massive addition to any top team in Europe.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

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Very interesting player. But like Doku, is he a great dribbler with poor output? His passing looks really weak according to his fbref profile. This is the type of player the club will likely take a chance on given our limited budget. Although clubs may be wary of players from Ukraine league due to how poorly Mudryk has performed. Sudakov is another who has been hyped but who hasn't moved clubs.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
So I've posted in the Hidden Gems thread that United should be seriously looking at signing Kevin Lopes who plays as a left winger for Shakthar Donesk and over the last number of months my conviction has only gotten stronger. I work in football data/analytics and to me he's by far the most standout option for United at the left 10 given his profile of age/ability/availability and potential. He's already better than any winger United have on the books and that's including Rashford/Sancho/Antony etc

I've spent the last couple of days watching all of his champions league games for Shakthar and made a compilation of his play, unfortunately I couldn't find the game vs Arsenal as this was copyrighted but opponents are: Bayern/PSV/Brest/Young Boys/Atalanta/Dortmund. I've tried to pick clips that highlight every area of his game from pressing opposition defenders, receiving the ball into space/running behind defensive line, receiving the ball into feet and taking on defenders, crossing left foot and right as well as goal scoring.

I know some posters will say anyone can look good in a highlight reel but bear in mind that the entire reel is taken from just 6 games and statistically he's incredibly impressive.

He's the #1 dribbler in the champions league this season with 5.1 per game, for comparison Garnacho averages 1.3 while Rashford is 1.6. Most elite level dribblers complete around 50%+ of dribble attempts (general guideline in analytics) Doku who is the best dribbler in the premier league averages 52%, Kevin is 59%. For comparison Garnacho is 33% and Rashford is 40%

In the Ukrainian league he has averaged 6.4 dribbles per game, Willian averaged 3.5 when he played for Shakhtar and Douglas Costa averaged 4.

He's 99th percentile for: Goals, Successful take ons, Carries into penalty area/progressive carries/non penalty goals

90+ percentile for: Goals+ assists, Through balls, crosses into penalty area, progressive carrying distance, shots on target/fouls drawn.

United rank 19th in the premier league from chances created from take ons. We went from being an average side in this department with Rashford/Sancho etc to a relegation level team. Which is a large part of why we struggle so badly to score goals and why our strikers have such poor returns.

It simply won't be possible to replicate Amorim's Sporting style without at least 1 winger with this type of profile because that team had the #1 and #2 most creative forwards in Portugal playing alongside Gyokeres. With Rashford/Sancho and Antony all gone and none expected to return this position has to be priority #1 for United, and Kevin is an exceptional talent who would be a massive addition to any top team in Europe.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

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Great post this. Lots of information about a player i had never heard of but will look out for him now. Looks a very tidy player indeed.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
So I've posted in the Hidden Gems thread that United should be seriously looking at signing Kevin Lopes who plays as a left winger for Shakthar Donesk and over the last number of months my conviction has only gotten stronger. I work in football data/analytics and to me he's by far the most standout option for United at the left 10 given his profile of age/ability/availability and potential. He's already better than any winger United have on the books and that's including Rashford/Sancho/Antony etc

I've spent the last couple of days watching all of his champions league games for Shakthar and made a compilation of his play, unfortunately I couldn't find the game vs Arsenal as this was copyrighted but opponents are: Bayern/PSV/Brest/Young Boys/Atalanta/Dortmund. I've tried to pick clips that highlight every area of his game from pressing opposition defenders, receiving the ball into space/running behind defensive line, receiving the ball into feet and taking on defenders, crossing left foot and right as well as goal scoring.

I know some posters will say anyone can look good in a highlight reel but bear in mind that the entire reel is taken from just 6 games and statistically he's incredibly impressive.

He's the #1 dribbler in the champions league this season with 5.1 per game, for comparison Garnacho averages 1.3 while Rashford is 1.6. Most elite level dribblers complete around 50%+ of dribble attempts (general guideline in analytics) Doku who is the best dribbler in the premier league averages 52%, Kevin is 59%. For comparison Garnacho is 33% and Rashford is 40%

In the Ukrainian league he has averaged 6.4 dribbles per game, Willian averaged 3.5 when he played for Shakhtar and Douglas Costa averaged 4.

He's 99th percentile for: Goals, Successful take ons, Carries into penalty area/progressive carries/non penalty goals

90+ percentile for: Goals+ assists, Through balls, crosses into penalty area, progressive carrying distance, shots on target/fouls drawn.

United rank 19th in the premier league from chances created from take ons. We went from being an average side in this department with Rashford/Sancho etc to a relegation level team. Which is a large part of why we struggle so badly to score goals and why our strikers have such poor returns.

It simply won't be possible to replicate Amorim's Sporting style without at least 1 winger with this type of profile because that team had the #1 and #2 most creative forwards in Portugal playing alongside Gyokeres. With Rashford/Sancho and Antony all gone and none expected to return this position has to be priority #1 for United, and Kevin is an exceptional talent who would be a massive addition to any top team in Europe.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

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Kid is talented. Thats for sure.
 
Kingslayer18 said:
Very interesting player. But like Doku, is he a great dribbler with poor output? His passing looks really weak according to his fbref profile. This is the type of player the club will likely take a chance on given our limited budget. Although clubs may be wary of players from Ukraine league due to how poorly Mudryk has performed. Sudakov is another who has been hyped but who hasn't moved clubs.
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His passing numbers are weak because he's playing for a very average Shakhtar team (3rd in Ukraine) in the champions league. Look at the amount of passes he receives and compare it to other wingers.

If anything it only highlights how incredible his attacking numbers are when he has this level of output whilst playing for a weaker team. He's also in the 90th percentile for through balls and 96th percentile for crosses into the box. Garnacho is bottom 3% for through balls and bottom 15% for crosses into penalty area.

Aside from playing for Shakhtar there's really nothing similar to Mudryk. Kevin averages more than 5 dribbles per game in his first champions league campaign, Mudryk was 0.8. The best stats Mudryk ever produced was averaging 1.7 per game which is miles away from Kevin.

Sudakov is a decent young player but again his numbers here aren't close to Kevin.

I believe Manchester United need to use a far more data driven approach to transfers and not just eye test or media hype.
 
Yoro said:
Our 100 million euros winger?
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Damn, I completely forgot about him. GoAnTony is bossing it for Betis anyways, he's already a legend for them.

FlawlessVictory88 said:
His passing numbers are weak because he's playing for a very average Shakhtar team (3rd in Ukraine) in the champions league. Look at the amount of passes he receives and compare it to other wingers.

If anything it only highlights how incredible his attacking numbers are when he has this level of output whilst playing for a weaker team. He's also in the 90th percentile for through balls and 96th percentile for crosses into the box. Garnacho is bottom 3% for through balls and bottom 15% for crosses into penalty area.

Aside from playing for Shakhtar there's really nothing similar to Mudryk. Kevin averages more than 5 dribbles per game in his first champions league campaign, Mudryk was 0.8. The best stats Mudryk ever produced was averaging 1.7 per game which is miles away from Kevin.

Sudakov is a decent young player but again his numbers here aren't close to Kevin.

I believe Manchester United need to use a far more data driven approach to transfers and not just eye test or media hype.
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Alright, I'm all aboard the train.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
His passing numbers are weak because he's playing for a very average Shakhtar team (3rd in Ukraine) in the champions league. Look at the amount of passes he receives and compare it to other wingers.

If anything it only highlights how incredible his attacking numbers are when he has this level of output whilst playing for a weaker team. He's also in the 90th percentile for through balls and 96th percentile for crosses into the box. Garnacho is bottom 3% for through balls and bottom 15% for crosses into penalty area.

Aside from playing for Shakhtar there's really nothing similar to Mudryk. Kevin averages more than 5 dribbles per game in his first champions league campaign, Mudryk was 0.8. The best stats Mudryk ever produced was averaging 1.7 per game which is miles away from Kevin.

Sudakov is a decent young player but again his numbers here aren't close to Kevin.

I believe Manchester United need to use a far more data driven approach to transfers and not just eye test or media hype.
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Ok, fair point. That does highlight how productive he's been if you take the low amount of passes received. However would we run into a similar issue with him as we ran into Antony? Antony had good stats in the champions league, better than his dutch league stats which fooled a lot of people in thinking he was better than he actually was. I guess I'm trying to figure out if he can keep up such high dribbling rates in the EPL with a greater amount of ball?

Also looks like Shakhtar bought him only a season ago and he's on a 5 year contract, would they be willing to sell at a decent price or would they want a huge fee given he's only played a season with them?

I do agree we need to take a more data driven approach. Getting Lopes would be a very Liverpool type move, so I think that highlights why he could be a very good purchase for us. I hope Vivell is looking at all this and incorporating data in his recruitment analysis.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
So I've posted in the Hidden Gems thread that United should be seriously looking at signing Kevin Lopes who plays as a left winger for Shakthar Donesk and over the last number of months my conviction has only gotten stronger. I work in football data/analytics and to me he's by far the most standout option for United at the left 10 given his profile of age/ability/availability and potential. He's already better than any winger United have on the books and that's including Rashford/Sancho/Antony etc

I've spent the last couple of days watching all of his champions league games for Shakthar and made a compilation of his play, unfortunately I couldn't find the game vs Arsenal as this was copyrighted but opponents are: Bayern/PSV/Brest/Young Boys/Atalanta/Dortmund. I've tried to pick clips that highlight every area of his game from pressing opposition defenders, receiving the ball into space/running behind defensive line, receiving the ball into feet and taking on defenders, crossing left foot and right as well as goal scoring.

I know some posters will say anyone can look good in a highlight reel but bear in mind that the entire reel is taken from just 6 games and statistically he's incredibly impressive.

He's the #1 dribbler in the champions league this season with 5.1 per game, for comparison Garnacho averages 1.3 while Rashford is 1.6. Most elite level dribblers complete around 50%+ of dribble attempts (general guideline in analytics) Doku who is the best dribbler in the premier league averages 52%, Kevin is 59%. For comparison Garnacho is 33% and Rashford is 40%

In the Ukrainian league he has averaged 6.4 dribbles per game, Willian averaged 3.5 when he played for Shakhtar and Douglas Costa averaged 4.

He's 99th percentile for: Goals, Successful take ons, Carries into penalty area/progressive carries/non penalty goals

90+ percentile for: Goals+ assists, Through balls, crosses into penalty area, progressive carrying distance, shots on target/fouls drawn.

United rank 19th in the premier league from chances created from take ons. We went from being an average side in this department with Rashford/Sancho etc to a relegation level team. Which is a large part of why we struggle so badly to score goals and why our strikers have such poor returns.

It simply won't be possible to replicate Amorim's Sporting style without at least 1 winger with this type of profile because that team had the #1 and #2 most creative forwards in Portugal playing alongside Gyokeres. With Rashford/Sancho and Antony all gone and none expected to return this position has to be priority #1 for United, and Kevin is an exceptional talent who would be a massive addition to any top team in Europe.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

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You can't compare the current Ukrainian league to the years when Willian and Douglas Costa (and others like Mkhitaryan and Fernandinho) were there. It has a dropped off at least a few levels because of the war.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
You can't compare the current Ukrainian league to the years when Willian and Douglas Costa (and others like Mkhitaryan and Fernandinho) were there. It has a dropped off at least a few levels because of the war.
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I can compare champions league though and Costa averaged 1.3, 1.2 and 1.2 dribbles per game in his first 3 champions league campaigns. Not remotely close to Kevin.
 
Kingslayer18 said:
Ok, fair point. That does highlight how productive he's been if you take the low amount of passes received. However would we run into a similar issue with him as we ran into Antony? Antony had good stats in the champions league, better than his dutch league stats which fooled a lot of people in thinking he was better than he actually was. I guess I'm trying to figure out if he can keep up such high dribbling rates in the EPL with a greater amount of ball?

Also looks like Shakhtar bought him only a season ago and he's on a 5 year contract, would they be willing to sell at a decent price or would they want a huge fee given he's only played a season with them?

I do agree we need to take a more data driven approach. Getting Lopes would be a very Liverpool type move, so I think that highlights why he could be a very good purchase for us. I hope Vivell is looking at all this and incorporating data in his recruitment analysis.
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Antony played 3 seasons of European football for Ajax. Two in the champions league where he averaged 1.3 and 1.4 dribbles per game and another in the Europa league where he averaged 0.3.

Antony's stats didn't fool anyone except for the clowns running United. There's numerous reports that scouts valued him at 20-30m.

Manchester United signing Antony for the fee they did is an example of how the club routinely made signings that firmly went against the data rather than being driven by it.

If United had decided that they wanted to sign a wide forward in 2022 based on data then they would have ended up with Kvaratskheli, Leao or Luis Diaz.

I don't know about how willing Shakhtar will be to let him go but the most important thing is that United are able to identify the right players and at least try to sign them. Whilst Kevin is my #1 pick for this summer I'd fully understand if the club didn't sign him because Shakhtar simply wanted too much money and they're operating on a limited budget.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
So I've posted in the Hidden Gems thread that United should be seriously looking at signing Kevin Lopes who plays as a left winger for Shakthar Donesk and over the last number of months my conviction has only gotten stronger. I work in football data/analytics and to me he's by far the most standout option for United at the left 10 given his profile of age/ability/availability and potential. He's already better than any winger United have on the books and that's including Rashford/Sancho/Antony etc

I've spent the last couple of days watching all of his champions league games for Shakthar and made a compilation of his play, unfortunately I couldn't find the game vs Arsenal as this was copyrighted but opponents are: Bayern/PSV/Brest/Young Boys/Atalanta/Dortmund. I've tried to pick clips that highlight every area of his game from pressing opposition defenders, receiving the ball into space/running behind defensive line, receiving the ball into feet and taking on defenders, crossing left foot and right as well as goal scoring.

I know some posters will say anyone can look good in a highlight reel but bear in mind that the entire reel is taken from just 6 games and statistically he's incredibly impressive.

He's the #1 dribbler in the champions league this season with 5.1 per game, for comparison Garnacho averages 1.3 while Rashford is 1.6. Most elite level dribblers complete around 50%+ of dribble attempts (general guideline in analytics) Doku who is the best dribbler in the premier league averages 52%, Kevin is 59%. For comparison Garnacho is 33% and Rashford is 40%

In the Ukrainian league he has averaged 6.4 dribbles per game, Willian averaged 3.5 when he played for Shakhtar and Douglas Costa averaged 4.

He's 99th percentile for: Goals, Successful take ons, Carries into penalty area/progressive carries/non penalty goals

90+ percentile for: Goals+ assists, Through balls, crosses into penalty area, progressive carrying distance, shots on target/fouls drawn.

United rank 19th in the premier league from chances created from take ons. We went from being an average side in this department with Rashford/Sancho etc to a relegation level team. Which is a large part of why we struggle so badly to score goals and why our strikers have such poor returns.

It simply won't be possible to replicate Amorim's Sporting style without at least 1 winger with this type of profile because that team had the #1 and #2 most creative forwards in Portugal playing alongside Gyokeres. With Rashford/Sancho and Antony all gone and none expected to return this position has to be priority #1 for United, and Kevin is an exceptional talent who would be a massive addition to any top team in Europe.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

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Looks a good talent, but from the video he looks more suited to playing as a winger. He doesn't look like a creative #10, so another square peg in a round hole like with Garnacho and Rashford playing in the #10 roles when Amorim first came in. Of course theres no reason why someone with plenty of pace and liking to pull wide and take players on cant be a good #10 if that leads to loads of goals and assists. But its probably not ideal and we'd be best off looking for someone with the vision of Bruno who we can rely on when Bruno is playing CM, or to dovetail with him when they both play as a #10

Looks like he'd be a good signing for a team playing 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 though. We just arent that team

The difference with Trincao is he runs the ball through the middle and still has the vision to play through balls. He might not be as athletic but he plays inside rather than taking on the fullback
 
Ekeke said:
Looks a good talent, but from the video he looks more suited to playing as a winger. He doesn't look like a creative #10, so another square peg in a round hole like with Garnacho and Rashford playing in the #10 roles when Amorim first came in. Of course theres no reason why someone with plenty of pace and liking to pull wide and take players on cant be a good #10 if that leads to loads of goals and assists. But its probably not ideal and we'd be best off looking for someone with the vision of Bruno who we can rely on when Bruno is playing CM, or to dovetail with him when they both play as a #10

Looks like he'd be a good signing for a team playing 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 though. We just arent that team

The difference with Trincao is he runs the ball through the middle and still has the vision to play through balls. He might not be as athletic but he plays inside rather than taking on the fullback
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Kevin is in the 90 percentile for through balls, Trincao is in the bottom 20%. He's significantly ahead of him in key passes too.

Trincao has decent numbers playing in Portugal and very poor numbers in the champions league or against the top opposition in Portugal.

I've already outlined how far removed Kevin in statistically from Garnacho, they're not even remotely similar.

Trincao signing would only show United have learned nothing and keep trying to win by building the old managers team. There's no point in having data and recruitment if you're simply going to ignore it. If United want to give transfer power to people using this method then they have every right to do so but it should be transparent and we should know who exactly is getting to make decisions based on eye test so we know who to fire when they spend 80m on Antony.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
Kevin is in the 90 percentile for through balls, Trincao is in the bottom 20%. He's significantly ahead of him in key passes too.

Trincao has decent numbers playing in Portugal and very poor numbers in the champions league or against the top opposition in Portugal.

I've already outlined how far removed Kevin in statistically from Garnacho, they're not even remotely similar.

Trincao signing would only show United have learned nothing and keep trying to win by building the old managers team. There's no point in having data and recruitment if you're simply going to ignore it. If United want to give transfer power to people using this method then they have every right to do so but it should be transparent and we should know who exactly is getting to make decisions based on eye test so we know who to fire when they spend 80m on Antony.
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You picked the video. In the video he didnt do any of what you are suggesting.
 
Ekeke said:
You picked the video. In the video he didnt do any of what you are suggesting.
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The 2nd clip of the video is him playing a key pass vs Bayern which him team mate misses.

He makes more key passes and through balls @ 9.10 vs Brest, then again at 13.35 vs Young boys and then two vs Atalanta at 17.15 and 17.40.

The video has plenty.
 
I watch a lot of Ligue 1 (french championship). So if u want i can report a lot of young players.

I start with Ayyoub Bouaddi.
French / Marrocan, 17 years old, Lille OSC. CM, DM. Right footed

+ : Passing, Ball Control, Stamina, Composure, Off the ball
- : Pace

Effective play time this season :
Ligue 1 : 1088'
ECL : 622' (including an amazing game vs Real Madrid in League phase)

Regarding his age i don't see a better prospect in miefield at the moment.
 
Axe2401 said:
I watch a lot of Ligue 1 (french championship). So if u want i can report a lot of young players.

I start with Ayyoub Bouaddi.
French / Marrocan, 17 years old, Lille OSC. CM, DM. Right footed

+ : Passing, Ball Control, Stamina, Composure, Off the ball
- : Pace

Effective play time this season :
Ligue 1 : 1088'
ECL : 622' (including an amazing game vs Real Madrid in League phase)

Regarding his age i don't see a better prospect in miefield at the moment.
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While don’t doubt he may be a good prospect, I’d think that with Ugarte, Mainoo, Collyer (not saying he’s top quality), Kone and Bruno (when he plays deeper)… not sure it’d be high on our agenda. And that will depend on the outs come Summer.

I think it’s goalie, 9, RWB (though hoping Mantato kicks on next season), 10.

Any of those?
 
Hugo Bolin at Malmo looks like an interesting player, predominently right footed left sided player but has the balance and dribbling to be able to translate inside, can go off of either foot as well. Would be a punt but I think you can get him cheap and get a PL to bite on a loan for him, he would be fantastic at Palace if they lost someone like Eze, not as quick or as strong at his current age but his balance and composure on the ball will take him a long way.
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
Antony played 3 seasons of European football for Ajax. Two in the champions league where he averaged 1.3 and 1.4 dribbles per game and another in the Europa league where he averaged 0.3.

Antony's stats didn't fool anyone except for the clowns running United. There's numerous reports that scouts valued him at 20-30m.

Manchester United signing Antony for the fee they did is an example of how the club routinely made signings that firmly went against the data rather than being driven by it.

If United had decided that they wanted to sign a wide forward in 2022 based on data then they would have ended up with Kvaratskheli, Leao or Luis Diaz.

I don't know about how willing Shakhtar will be to let him go but the most important thing is that United are able to identify the right players and at least try to sign them. Whilst Kevin is my #1 pick for this summer I'd fully understand if the club didn't sign him because Shakhtar simply wanted too much money and they're operating on a limited budget.
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I agree that the data in its entirety didn't back up buying Antony for anything above 30-40m. Its actually maddening that given the final cost, they didn't go for the best young wide attacker in the world, just the 3 you mentioned were highly regarded.

I hope we use a more data led approach this summer but Ratcliffe has already said that our data department is stuck in the middle ages so I'm not holding out much hope it is righted in time for the next window. Also, since Dominic Jordan left, they haven't replaced him as the head of data science.

Given that he seems to do his best work in space and on the outside, do you feel he can adapt to playing narrower or would we have another Garnacho situation play out? Based on the stats and the video, I do like Lopes but I can see a situation where Shakhtar demand a huge fee given that he recently joined and is on a 5 year contract. Other names we should look at that would compare are Dilane Bakwa and Roger Fernandes. They can operate as the R10 or RWB.
 
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