You are a right soft lot, look:

WeasteDevil

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Right, ok, we've got rid of a lot of fringe players this season, and many of you are getting into a panick that we are not replacing those players through the transfer market.

Sit up a bit and think...............

Think what Alan Hansen said...............

"You can't win anything with kids".............

dot dot dot......................

We only need to buy a good flexible fullback that can play on both sides and we are sorted.

Why?

Because the kids are going to play again.

Ok, not in midfield, but in defence!

I'm talking Brown and O'Shea.

feck Rio Ferdinand, feck Nesta et al, lets play the kids!
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>I'm talking Brown and O'Shea.

feck Rio Ferdinand, feck Nesta et al, lets play the kids!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hell! Yeah! I Like that :D <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Unbelievable!! The PL might still be possible (though a real struggle), but do you seriously think that Brown + O'Shea can be CL winning CB partnership THIS season??
 
Originally posted by Cal:
<strong>Unbelievable!! The PL might still be possible (though a real struggle), but do you seriously think that Brown + O'Shea can be CL winning CB partnership THIS season??</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
have faith! ;)
 
After the worst season in a decade, we have to come right back and maintain our grip on English football and challenge to do the same in Europe.

Our current squad isn't good enough and we must sign reinforcements. Simple as that!

We have the money to spend and it's very much a buyer's market at the moment.
 
Originally posted by Cal:
<strong>
We have the money to spend and it's very much a buyer's market at the moment.</strong><hr></blockquote>

We have the money to spend no doubt. but unfortunately the PLC is very tight about the transfer kitty. Therefore, I don't really mind if SAF put his faith on Brown and O'Shea to manage the defence for the coming season.!
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>Right, ok, we've got rid of a lot of fringe players this season, and many of you are getting into a panick that we are not replacing those players through the transfer market.

Sit up a bit and think...............

Think what Alan Hansen said...............

"You can't win anything with kids".............

dot dot dot......................

</strong><hr></blockquote>


Does lightening also strike twice? I hope it does and i hope Hansen gets foot in mouth again
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>Right, ok, we've got rid of a lot of fringe players this season, and many of you are getting into a panick that we are not replacing those players through the transfer market.

Sit up a bit and think...............

Think what Alan Hansen said...............

"You can't win anything with kids".............

dot dot dot......................

We only need to buy a good flexible fullback that can play on both sides and we are sorted.

Why?

Because the kids are going to play again.

Ok, not in midfield, but in defence!

I'm talking Brown and O'Shea.

feck Rio Ferdinand, feck Nesta et al, lets play the kids!</strong><hr></blockquote>


I hope you do that Martin, I really do..
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>Right, ok, we've got rid of a lot of fringe players this season, and many of you are getting into a panick that we are not replacing those players through the transfer market.

Sit up a bit and think...............

Think what Alan Hansen said...............

"You can't win anything with kids".............

dot dot dot......................

We only need to buy a good flexible fullback that can play on both sides and we are sorted.

Why?

Because the kids are going to play again.

Ok, not in midfield, but in defence!

I'm talking Brown and O'Shea.

feck Rio Ferdinand, feck Nesta et al, lets play the kids!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Doing so would mean we would be out of the first stages of the CL campaign and would struggle to get a CL qualfying place in the Premiership.

Brown isn't exactly a kid, he's only a year younger than Rio who's a superstar already
 
Originally posted by pjaya:
<strong>

We have the money to spend no doubt. but unfortunately the PLC is very tight about the transfer kitty. Therefore, I don't really mind if SAF put his faith on Brown and O'Shea to manage the defence for the coming season.!
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I do! Personally, I can't see any improvement on last season's 3rd place if we don't strengthen the squad.
 
John O'Shea I like, but I'd prefer to see him partner Gary Neville if necessary - Wes Brown has, so far, not inspired me one bit. We need someone scary - now hand on heart, does Wes Brown scare you..........I'll clarify that. Wes Brown frequently scares me, but does he scare the opposition?

Maybe this will be Wes' season, but I'd prefer to test it first, rather than not have any new cover - just in case.

Bless him.
 
Wouldnt that be cool, not signing a single defender. The plastic fans desert us and the O'Shea/ Brown partnership draws in the treble :D
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>John O'Shea I like, but I'd prefer to see him partner Gary Neville if necessary - Wes Brown has, so far, not inspired me one bit. We need someone scary - now hand on heart, does Wes Brown scare you..........I'll clarify that. Wes Brown frequently scares me, but does he scare the opposition?

Maybe this will be Wes' season, but I'd prefer to test it first, rather than not have any new cover - just in case.

Bless him.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Ahem, G Neville and Blanc as CBs will take United to another treble.
:D
 
Originally posted by Cal:
<strong>Unbelievable!! </strong><hr></blockquote>

You're just as bad as Kemo for transfer-loving, you know that? I nominate you next week ;)
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>Wouldnt that be cool, not signing a single defender. The plastic fans desert us and the O'Shea/ Brown partnership draws in the treble :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

Dream on....
 
Originally posted by pjaya:
<strong>

We have the money to spend no doubt. but unfortunately the PLC is very tight about the transfer kitty....

</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's just not true anymore. Kenyon has dramatically released the purse strings as evidenced by his willingness to support the purchase of Veron. He has publicly stated that the PLC's job is to generate enough funds to allow Ferguson to go for the players he wants.

As for not purchasing a new CB - sheer lunacy. We've lost Irwin, Ronnie J, Wallwork. David May is clearly seeing out his tenure in the reserves. Wes is a class player but (unlike Rio) not had the most consistent of runs due to injuries (note he has a tendency to pick up injuries - long term and major ones).

O'Shea is simply too inexperienced in a position that will be another melting pot of focus and sniping criticism. Everyone will be watching to see how we fare defensively this season. If O'Shea is thrown and has a mare - it could have long term implications for his progress and confidence. Blanc will have it all to prove again with the "he's another year older - is this a season too far" comments.

We simply have to get it right and cannot afford mistakes.
 
Originally posted by veron004:
<strong>

That's just not true anymore. Kenyon has dramatically released the purse strings as evidenced by his willingness to support the purchase of Veron. He has publicly stated that the PLC's job is to generate enough funds to allow Ferguson to go for the players he wants.

As for not purchasing a new CB - sheer lunacy. We've lost Irwin, Ronnie J, Wallwork. David May is clearly seeing out his tenure in the reserves. Wes is a class player but (unlike Rio) not had the most consistent of runs due to injuries (note he has a tendency to pick up injuries - long term and major ones).

O'Shea is simply too inexperienced in a position that will be another melting pot of focus and sniping criticism. Everyone will be watching to see how we fare defensively this season. If O'Shea is thrown and has a mare - it could have long term implications for his progress and confidence. Blanc will have it all to prove again with the "he's another year older - is this a season too far" comments.

We simply have to get it right and cannot afford mistakes.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Summed up beautifully :D
 
The idea that Fergie could work some magic with young players again is pretty cool but I'm not convinced that youth is best policy in such a key position. Central defenders need to be at least intimidating. Young players very rarely are.

Wes Brown worries me to be honest. I mean he has great feet and is very comforable on the ball but he does look like a player who is lacking in confidence. I don't think he likes the rough and tumble that some forwards confront him with and, I'm sad to say it, I do wonder if Wes will fulfill his potential. (In fairness to him I think Barthez has displayed an amazing lack of faith in Brown at times and that seems to be damaging his confidence. The Deportivo game is a good example).

O'Shea has great promise and, although he might not be as good on the ball or as quick as Brown, he is strong and physically imposing. I reckon John O'Shea could go from strength to strength this season and, in a way, I think he could be the more natural partener for Blanc because of his physical presence.

The real point in all of this is that with such an important season coming up, the one thing we need is stability. I'm not convinced that O'Shea/Brown is the answer as a partenership. Fergie has kept Blanc on for a reason and I reckon he firmly believes that Blanc can play a role next year. So my guess would be that regardless of who is or isn't signed, the partnership will be Blanc and ?.

IMO that is not a bad thing to look forward too. Blanc is a great organiser and a really inspirational defender. His point about always lacking pace at the start of last season is a fair one. Larry ended the season in top form and you have to say, but for a wonder goal in Leverkusen, the man would have been inspirational in getting us to Glasgow, our view of the defenders might have been very different then?

The thing that really amazes me, however, is how come no one is pointing the finger at Barthez? What does he really contribute to the team? When is the last time we can genuinely say Fabien won us a match in the way that Schmeical would? And more importantly, how much confidence do his defenders have in him? If he starts the season the way he did last year then all we have to look forward to is more of the same :(
 
Agree. Fergie has already made it very clear that defence was our major weakness and he will look at it as the highest priorty. O'shea has indeed only played a few matches for us last season, against some "mighty" opponents such as Boro and Everton, and then people are expecting he can partner with another lad to win the CL for us. This kind of young players must gain experience gradually. Demand too much from him too quickly can only do harm to them.

Especially in the central defence, where even a little error can be fatal, we need someone who have the true class, enough experience and absolute reliability to be there. It is not just "transfer-loving". It's something we must do in order to avoid further failure in the coming season. We don't need to reject any new purchase just for the sake of showing our loyality to current players and our credential as a true fan. United being strong, playing good football and getting good result are the most important things of all.
 
Whatever we do I just hope we don't use anymore stop gap solutions, great defences usually involve great partnerships, and it takes awhile for players to figure each other out, I just hope we get in some young guns or give O'Shea and Brown ther head I do think that O'Shea deserves his chance, Wes seems to suffer from crisis of confidence, but a good run could see him come good
 
Originally posted by stoned.rose:
<strong>

You will when Liverpool win the league.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>It could be a very good move letting O'Shea and Brown if we're looking at it long-term...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Even when we are looking for long term it's still unwise to start both of them together now. A better approach is to partner one of them with a true world class and experienced CB, let them learn the trade from him and gradually build up their experience and confidence.
 
Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>When is the last time we can genuinely say Fabien won us a match in the way that Schmeical would? </strong><hr></blockquote>

A tall order. Schmeichel was exceptional (i.e. one-off). The only solid match winning keeper around is Kahn, the rest are all the same, every once in awhile producing a string of good saves but generally just doing an adequate job.
 
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

Even when we are looking for long term it's still unwise to start both of them together now. A better approach is to partner one of them with a true world class and experienced CB, let them learn the trade from him and gradually build up their experience and confidence.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree

Maybe Sir Alex see Larry as this one though
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>Wouldnt that be cool, not signing a single defender. The plastic fans desert us and the O'Shea/ Brown partnership draws in the treble :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

They would most likely stay and complain the whole time, and then tap dance around the specifics when confronted. ;)
 
I've been a bit worried the last season or 2 that United haven't seemed to play the promising youngsters as much as they used to.

I wouldn't mind another trophyless season, as long as it means putting together a team for the future, with a solid core of young, true Reds.

Buy low key - hard working young lads with a future - give them a chance and not knock their head off if they're not world beaters at first try. I really feel this is a season to experiment. We're outsiders now, and The Arse are the team to beat.
 
Originally posted by Divine:
<strong>I've been a bit worried the last season or 2 that United haven't seemed to play the promising youngsters as much as they used to.

I wouldn't mind another trophyless season, as long as it means putting together a team for the future, with a solid core of young, true Reds.

Buy low key - hard working young lads with a future - give them a chance and not knock their head off if they're not world beaters at first try. I really feel this is a season to experiment. We're outsiders now, and The Arse are the team to beat.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I like it, I like it! <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Originally posted by Divine:
<strong>I've been a bit worried the last season or 2 that United haven't seemed to play the promising youngsters as much as they used to.

I wouldn't mind another trophyless season, as long as it means putting together a team for the future, with a solid core of young, true Reds.

Buy low key - hard working young lads with a future - give them a chance and not knock their head off if they're not world beaters at first try. I really feel this is a season to experiment. We're outsiders now, and The Arse are the team to beat.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree with you
 
I would love it if Wes and O'Shea come out on top this year....If we cut out the errors, we wont be as bad as last year....

But I cant help but think other teams have strengthened and we must add something different...hopefully Forlan and veron and Fortune and Chadwick will do better this year and our forward/midfield problems in bigger matches will be over...espeically when Giggsy and Becks are out of sorts.

I am more worried about our lack of another left back than Wes and O'Shea...I think they will come good....
 
Who would have raved about Rio before the world cup? He had an inconspicuous season with Leeds. Yeah, I reckon O'Shea could be the 'immovable, imposing centre half' with Blanc and Brown alternating around him. Fergie likes these flexible defenders i.e. centre back one week, full back the next and sweeper after that. It's possible that he thinks O'Shea might need another season or two and he would like someone such as Ayala to teach (or learn from) so age is not the important criteria for a new centre back. I feel he thinks as well, that Brown still has more to learn from Blanc - confidence maybe?
 
No new big name CB then? I like it! <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />

We do need a CB for cover, but nothing on the big money front.

What we really need IMO, is a flexible fullback just like Irwin. But who? that is the question.
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>No new big name CB then? I like it! <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />

We do need a CB for cover, but nothing on the big money front.

What we really need IMO, is a flexible fullback just like Irwin. But who? that is the question.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wouldn´t mind Finnan or Bridge.
 
Originally posted by Jens:
<strong>

I wouldn´t mind Finnan or Bridge.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Me too, it makes more sense than this Ferdinand and Nesta nonsense. We built our success from youth, so why not continue?

There are too many of our supporters that want to win the CL every year. It's not realistic. And in 1999 we won the thing with what? Major signings? Stam and Yorke come to mind, but RVN is far better than Yorke ever was and our midfield (with the exception of Keane) came from the youth setup.

Why do people have such little faith in our two young CBs? Because Wes fecked up a few times. They forget that the rest of the games he played very very well indeed, and the blunders involving him and Barthez we soley down to Barthez not Brown. He is the senior play and should have made sure of the situation. As for the famous OG, does anyone have a go at Keano? No!

By building from youth once more, we can ensure future success. Of course we need major signings every now and then, but we had two of those last year, and we dont need any more right now.

I couldn't give a shit if we win anything next year if it means another 7 years of domination after that, and for that we need a settled and bonded squad. Give the kids a go I say, and lets see what happens. The worst that can happen is that we finnish 3rd.

Admit it people, Brown and O'Shea cant do much worse thatn last seasons first half fiasco!
 
Brown is not in Rio's class and neither is O'Shea in Nesta's class. Both superior alternatives are avaliable, a bit pricey, but having them would guarantee us the league and champions league.
It was our defence that cost us both trophies last year and it would be mad to stick by the same defenders. Both Brown and O'Shea are good young players who'd do a fine job as squad players, but realistically, we will not achieve success without buying at least one world class centre back.

And no to Gary Neville playing at cente back. He does a great jobn there but he's better on the right. It's time to stop compromising our better players favoured positions and bring the cheque book out.
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

Me too, it makes more sense than this Ferdinand and Nesta nonsense. We built our success from youth, so why not continue?

There are too many of our supporters that want to win the CL every year. It's not realistic. And in 1999 we won the thing with what? Major signings? Stam and Yorke come to mind, but RVN is far better than Yorke ever was and our midfield (with the exception of Keane) came from the youth setup.

Why do people have such little faith in our two young CBs? Because Wes fecked up a few times. They forget that the rest of the games he played very very well indeed, and the blunders involving him and Barthez we soley down to Barthez not Brown. He is the senior play and should have made sure of the situation. As for the famous OG, does anyone have a go at Keano? No!

By building from youth once more, we can ensure future success. Of course we need major signings every now and then, but we had two of those last year, and we dont need any more right now.

I couldn't give a shit if we win anything next year if it means another 7 years of domination after that, and for that we need a settled and bonded squad. Give the kids a go I say, and lets see what happens. The worst that can happen is that we finnish 3rd.

Admit it people, Brown and O'Shea cant do much worse thatn last seasons first half fiasco!</strong><hr></blockquote>

You fail to recognize that the generation of Giggs, Beckham and Scholes is a one-off. O'Leary has built the team around young players for several years but yet still come up with nothing, not even getting a CL place. So the worst case is certainly not "we finish 3rd this season, then dominate the next 7 years". The worst that can happen is "Our young players simply don't have the same quality as their seniors. We finish 3rd in the next few years, then drop to mid-table after those Fergie Fledglings retire".

If faith alone can win thing I will have faith 24 hours per day. But at the end of the day we need quality where it is due. I have said we need to buy new defender for over 2 years now. Every time there are people who said our squad is already good enough and we should keep faith on our current players. But when we look back today we can see the fact that after 1999 we are in a continuous down curve (treble in 99, PL and World champion in 00, PL only in 01, nothing in 02). Why we get to such a stage? It is already not a secret or question that our problem lie in the defence. Fergie has finally agreed that we have a problem in defence needed to be addressed (though at least one year too late IMO). Directly plug someone from the reserve into the team is certainly not a reasonable thing to do at this moment. Especially in the area just in front of our own net, we need someone with absolute class, experience and reliability. Playing with lads there can only backfire and destroy us.

The best approach is still buying a world class and experienced defender, then have Brown or O'shea partner him in some matches and gradually learn the trade from him. In this way we can acheieve the target of building for the future, at the same time without seriously damaging our chance to produce good results in the next few years.
 
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

So the worst case is certainly not "we finish 3rd this season, then dominate the next 7 years". The worst that can happen is "Our young players simply don't have the same quality as their seniors. We finish 3rd in the next few years, then drop to mid-table after those Fergie Fledglings retire".
.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly..

Its not a case of "sacrifice" a season so that OG and O'Shea can develop into a decent CB partnership...

You're looking to challange for honours home and in Europe so you need excellent players..will O'Shea become one? Who knows...
Will OG? I doubt it..