Yerry Mina - Everton Player

[Ekeke]

Does our transfer record over the last 6 years fill you with confidence?

People are getting peeved off with comparisons to City and Liverpool. I can understand that. But I can also understand the comparisons.

City had glaring holes at FB and CB and went out and got the best available and paid a premium. Liverpool had glaring holes in GK, CB and CM and they went out and signed some of the best available for premium prices.

Not only are we neglecting our shite areas again, but even in the areas we are signing players, we're signing make do players.

Alderweireld is available and is quality. Pay the fecking fee and if we win a major trophy at the end of the year no one will care.
Mahrez and Malcom have been available this year and we have glaring problems in our wide areas. Yet we weren't even interested.

Pulisic seems available and all the talk is Chelsea or Liverpool.

I already know someone will reply saying Pulisic hasnt even moved and we could be interested.
A. Yes we could be.
B. Don't ignore the rest of the post.
C. I'll repeat, I have little faith in our transfer policy and that's been pretty much the same story since 2009.

Well no, City did not go out and sign the best for the highest prices.

They bought players who werent already at top clubs and only some of them look all that good.

Toby is not a great defender and is only available at stupid money prices. And if you think Mourinho is likely to prefer someone who makes some good long passes over someone who is tall and great in the air, you've probably not come to terms with who we have as manager.

 

[Ekeke]

Agreed, it's difficult to tell how a player like Mina will perform until he joins. Mina is decent on the ball, but nothing special. If anything, it was one of his weak points at Barca (but of course the CB's there have to be very good on the ball).

I think a CB pairing of Smalling and Mina would lack technical ability tbh and we'd still be lacking a passer from the back. Mina looks impressive dribbling with the ball, as he's so physically dominant. But, on the ball he generally keeps it very simple- something all of our CB's can do very comfortably already. The CB we need is one with a solid passing range that can open up play for our attacking players and ease the burden on our midfield.

Saying all this, I still think we're working on a deal for Alderweireld.

Mina can pass out. He's a defender, not a midfielder sure but we need a defender not a midfielder. We already have CBs whos defending isnt particularly their strength.

 

[gr3yham3]

Yikes. Can you imagine a pairing of Smalling and Mina trying to dribble and pass from the back? If we get Mina, my only assumption is we are changing the formation and Fred will be the one controlling play from the back.

From previous reports on Mina, he does pass well. On whoscored, passing is one of his strengths. I am sure that was one of his strengths that caused Barca to buy him in the first place.

 

[NinjaFletch]

You don't consistently have one of the best defensive records in the league for 4 consecutive seasons and have an average defence.

Yeah DDG plays a vital part but there's no way in hell we'd have been this solid with "average defenders".

And yet almost the only consistent fixture of that defence over those four years has been De Gea and Smalling. Hell, one of those seasons we had a back four of De Gea, Smalling, Blind and a rotating door of youth options in the full back positions.

He makes the most saves because we pay in a low block and its hard for defences to get behind us so sides take a lot more potshots against us. Arsenal away last year is a great example.
Its why people consider him as mainly a shot stopper, I honestly can't think of the last one on one that he faced for us.

That games a ridiculously poor example to make your point with. You might want to try and find a video of De Gea's saves from that game, I can promise you his Premier League record equalling tally was not achieved by 'saving pot shots'. In fact, it's probably the best example there is of our defence being overly reliant on De Gea's magnificence.

I didn't conclude that - I said we are a difficult team to score against, because we are. Hence why we don't concede many goals, and teams struggle to create chances against us.
Even when DDG isn't in goal we don't concede many goals. We got to the Europa, Carling & FA Cup finals in the last two years using Romero.

You're making it sound as though DDG is under siege every game and that is not the case at all. Yes he has memorable WC saves, because he is a WC goalkeeper, that's his job.

No, I'm making it sound like he has a disproportionate amount of work to do for a keeper who supposedly has a good defence in front of him. Which should be obvious.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Bailly Mina Lindelof

That's going to be a formidable trio at the back. It may take half the season or perhaps only in Europe this year. But I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

I say this being pretty gash at identifying talented players before superstardom let alone center backs. But it's a feeling I've got. A little tickle around my grundle. That's my lucky spot. Always perks me up when something good is afoot.

And if i've learned anything in life, intuition and opinions are more important than cold hard facts.
Urgh Nothing good comes from cold, hard anything.

 

[villain]

No, I'm making it sound like he has a disproportionate amount of work to do for a keeper who supposedly has a good defence in front of him. Which should be obvious.

Which again, by your logic - so does Oblak & Ter Stegen. They have even better defenders ahead of them, and still have a disproportionate amount of work to do, surely?

 

[Aberdonian Red]

Hope this deal goes through, looks a decent player and a threat in the opposition box. Interesting few days ahead. I’m unsure if he is a significant upgrade on Rojo but time will tell I guess.

 

[cyberman]

@NinjaFletch
I might suggest you go re watch the saves he made. The Sanchez and Lukaku saves were the only chances that had a hope of getting past him
The rest were from shots from around the edge of the box or ping pong phases from frustrated crosses into the box.
Stats are deceiving.

 

[NinjaFletch]

@NinjaFletch
I might suggest you go re watch the saves he made. The Sanchez and Lukaku saves were the only chances that had a hope of getting past him
The rest were from shots from around the edge of the box or ping pong phases from frustrated crosses into the box.
Stats are deceiving.

I did, hence why I told you to do so, you've forgotten several excellent saves.

I mean, you can't really believe the entire footballing world was fawning over his performance in that game because he made a string of routine saves, can you?

 

[United Pro]

Yikes. Can you imagine a pairing of Smalling and Mina trying to dribble and pass from the back? If we get Mina, my only assumption is we are changing the formation and Fred will be the one controlling play from the back.

I reckon Mourinho could be looking to play a 3-5-2 formation next season with a new ball playing CB coming in, wing backs as we don't really have solid full backs, 3 in midfield to accommodate Pogba and perhaps Sanchez up front alongside Lukaku, where he's been impressing all pre-season.

Mina can pass out. He's a defender, not a midfielder sure but we need a defender not a midfielder. We already have CBs whos defending isnt particularly their strength.

I've seen very little of Mina tbf. But, from what I have seen, Mina looks to keep things simple on the ball. He's not the type to make too many expansive passes. Then again, he may have done that for Barca as there were several other technically better players to pass to to take on the play making responsibility.

 

[Tony247]

I hope Mina is not another Lindelof. We need a matured calm brain at the back.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

From previous reports on Mina, he does pass well. On whoscored, passing is one of his strengths. I am sure that was one of his strengths that caused Barca to buy him in the first place.

Except passing stats for a defender can be deceptive. They make hundreds of 5-20 yard passes to the midfield. For example, Chris Smalling has about the same pass completion rate (87% compared to Mina's 90%) over a longer period of games. And nobody in their right mind would suggest Smalling is a world class passer of the ball. https://www.whoscored.com/Players/71345/Show/Chris-Smalling

 

[AgentP]

I hope Mina is not another Lindelof. We need a matured calm brain at the back.

He is nothing like Lindelof in any way! He is like a mix of Bailly and Smalling from what I saw of him at the World cup. Tall, physical, great header of the ball in both boxes and rash and clumsy at times.

 

[Ballache]

I hope Mina is not another Lindelof. We need a matured calm brain at the back.

I think him and VNL would make a good partnership tbh.

 

[AgentP]

From previous reports on Mina, he does pass well. On whoscored, passing is one of his strengths. I am sure that was one of his strengths that caused Barca to buy him in the first place.

Whoscored can't be trusted especially the strengths and weaknesses column. I have seen so many obvious things that they have got wrong.

 

[Bubz27]

Well no, City did not go out and sign the best for the highest prices.

They bought players who werent already at top clubs and only some of them look all that good.

Toby is not a great defender and is only available at stupid money prices. And if you think Mourinho is likely to prefer someone who makes some good long passes over someone who is tall and great in the air, you've probably not come to terms with who we have as manager.

City did sign the best available RB and LBs available last summer. And both helped City absolutely storm the title. Even though Mendy was injured, I dont think anyone is doubting his class. He still had a big impact on City's play when he was available.

They needed CBs so they went and signed Stones and Laporte over a course of 18 months or so. Not the best, but some of best available.

Fact is, there have been better CBs available than Mina and quality RW options available and we haven't shown our face at all.

Toby is a very very very good defender and has had a great impact at Saints and Spurs. He isn't all about long balls, he can defend. You're massively underrating Toby imo.

But it isn't just about Toby. Why weren't we in for VVD? I couldn't care less about the price to be honest. That's actually kind of my point. We're about to take our spending on CBs to over £90m in 3 years. VVD next to Smalling would've been a great pairing.

 

[VP89]

And yet almost the only consistent fixture of that defence over those four years has been De Gea and Smalling. Hell, one of those seasons we had a back four of De Gea, Smalling, Blind and a rotating door of youth options in the full back positions.

It's been rotated across Jones Rojo (last year) and Bailey under Jose. And so what? They've all performed admiralty at the back. Our only obvious negative worse than any other side is playing out from the back.

The idea that we are only good at the back because we had DDG is beyond ridiculous. Criminal underrating of what we have.

As another poster said you may as well scratch off Atletico because of the blinder saves Oblak has made for them in previous seasons.

 

[cyberman]

I did, hence why I told you to do so, you've forgotten several excellent saves.

I mean, you can't really believe the entire footballing world was fawning over his performance in that game because he made a string of routine saves, can you?

What examples then?
I've literally just watched it, there are so many saves that's should be saves that it would have been a huge disappointment if David let it past him.
It all backs up my point, frustrated shots in volume because they can't get behind our defence.

 

[Rajma]

Bailly Mina Lindelof

Why would we play with 3 CBs when we struggle scoring goals and breaking down teams? Honest question.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

City did sign the best available RB and LBs available last summer. And both helped City absolutely storm the title. Even though Mendy was injured, I dont think anyone is doubting his class. He still had a big impact on City's play when he was available.

They needed CBs so they went and signed Stones and Laporte over a course of 18 months or so. Not the best, but some of best available.

Fact is, there have been better CBs available than Mina and quality RW options available and we haven't shown our face at all.

Toby is a very very very good defender and has had a great impact at Saints and Spurs. He isn't all about long balls, he can defend. You're massively underrating Toby imo.

But it isn't just about Toby. Why weren't we in for VVD? I couldn't care less about the price to be honest. That's actually kind of my point. We're about to take our spending on CBs to over £90m in 3 years. VVD next to Smalling would've been a great pairing.

Exactly. It makes no sense. Why buy three average CBs for 30m each when they all need replacing after a year, and yet refuse to pay 60m for a defender that can sort out the defence for 4 years?+

 

[Ekeke]

City did sign the best available RB and LBs available last summer. And both helped City absolutely storm the title. Even though Mendy was injured, I dont think anyone is doubting his class. He still had a big impact on City's play when he was available.

They needed CBs so they went and signed Stones and Laporte over a course of 18 months or so. Not the best, but some of best available.

Fact is, there have been better CBs available than Mina and quality RW options available and we haven't shown our face at all.

Toby is a very very very good defender and has had a great impact at Saints and Spurs. He isn't all about long balls, he can defend. You're massively underrating Toby imo.

But it isn't just about Toby. Why weren't we in for VVD? I couldn't care less about the price to be honest. That's actually kind of my point. We're about to take our spending on CBs to over £90m in 3 years. VVD next to Smalling would've been a great pairing.

Most high profile available players sure, but they didnt try to buy from their rivals and other top clubs.

Spurs dont want to sell to us because it just helps us finish above them.

He's an okay defender who is good on the ball and plays a lot of long passes.

 

[Lyng]

Could Mourinho be thinking about using Mina as a sweeper? Much like Rio was more of a sweeper late in his career?
This would allow Bailly or Lindelöf to push a little forward and be the main drive from defense and upwards. It would essentially allow us a higher back line and allow Pogba more freedom, since you would then have Mina in the back always. Just a thought.

 

[suhaylah]

If he can stay fit for almost the entire season, then he would be an upgrade on Jones. He seems better at heading the ball than Smalling in the opposition box. Question is if he can handle the pace of quick, tricky players.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Why would we play with 3 CBs when we struggle scoring goals and breaking down teams? Honest question.

You mean in pre season in particular?

We've struggled with breaking teams down in general. So I'm not keen on linking the two. Especially as one of our best attacking performances was in Russia with a back three.

 

[NinjaFletch]

It's been rotated across Jones Rojo (last year) and Bailey under Jose. And so what? They've all performed admiralty at the back. Our only obvious negative worse than any other side is playing out from the back.

The idea that we are only good at the back because we had DDG is beyond ridiculous. Criminal underrating of what we have.

As another poster said you may as well scratch off Atletico because of the blinder saves Oblak has made for them in previous seasons.

That wasn't your point, your point was that our defence has been good for four years, as if the same players had made up the back four across those years when they demonstrably haven't.

The rest of your post is attacking a position that no one holds.

 

[VP89]

That wasn't your point, your point was that our defence has been good for four years, as if the same players had made up the back four across those years when they demonstrably haven't.

The rest of your post is attacking a position that no one holds.

My point is that the defence has been very good in the last 4 years. I never suggested its been the same players. That's you trying to make your argument fit (which it doesn't).

Weve had a strong defence in the last 4 years which has rotated across say 4 key players at centre back and all of them have put in strong performances. Not without its hiccups, but its been darn well more resolute than our league rivals.

 

[charlie9882]

Most high profile available players sure, but they didnt try to buy from their rivals and other top clubs.
.

Literally bought Walker from a premier league rival and paid a premium to get him. Most expensive fullback in the world until they signed Mendy.

Money well spent as well considering he was absolutely immense and one of City's best last year.

City didn't baulk at the price tag and settle for another target for less. They didn't mess around with their key positions.

 

[MUFC OK]

Really hope we get this lad, think he could become a star. The negative press around him is weird, and he's half the price of Harry Maguire.

 

[Red4Life_#7]

Why would we play with 3 CBs when we struggle scoring goals and breaking down teams? Honest question.

I think this is what JM wanted to move to this last season when he tried to sign Persic. He wants to control the game and keep a compact team defensively, then counter with speed.

 

[Offside]

Really hope we get this lad, think he could become a star. The negative press around him is weird, and he's half the price of Harry Maguire.

It’s bizarre. Founded on absolutely nothing as well.

 

[Powderfinger]

Mina doesn't make a lot of sense to me. All the other CBs to whom you've been linked have been relatively experienced players who would assumedly walk into the starting XI and help you compete this year. Mina is raw as hell and Jose Mourinho is well known for preferring experienced players, particularly in the defense. Mina may or may not be a good prospect and a good buy but either way he's one for the future not for the present (at least in a Mourinho side).

My guess is that all the Mina talk is a bunch of smoke and that Alderweireld and Maguire are still the targets.

 

[Offside]

Bailly Mina Lindelof

That's going to be a formidable trio at the back. It may take half the season or perhaps only in Europe this year. But I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

I say this being pretty gash at identifying talented players before superstardom let alone center backs. But it's a feeling I've got. A little tickle around my grundle. That's my lucky spot. Always perks me up when something good is afoot.

And if i've learned anything in life, intuition and opinions are more important than cold hard facts.
Urgh Nothing good comes from cold, hard anything.

3 at the back system relies on really good fullbacks. Valencia and Young would be a car-crash. Well, Young did a good job for England at the World Cup but we don’t have a player like Tripper on the other flank. Valencia can’t cross and can’t get up and down like he used to.

 

[devilish]

I would have Smalling & Tuanzebe as squad players, Jones would be too, but he's too injury prone to be relied upon - but we also can't sell him for that very reason. I think Bailly & Lindelof will come good this season. I don't really have any expectations for this Mina guy as of yet.
Fred doesn't play anything like Carrick at all, if anything Pereira would be more of a Carrick-style player - but I understand what you're trying to say.
Dalot has been hailed as one of the best RB's in his age group, which is a wise investment. I think the club are giving Shaw one more chance before we replace him, which is understandable.

From what I can see we're making moves in the right direction, could it be better? Absolutely. Doesn't mean we have to get desperate and throw money at any and everyone who has a sale going on.
We're making improvements to the squad and almost everyone we have signed since Mourinho joined has improved us in some way (except Mhki & it's too early to tell with Sanchez & Lindelof yet)

If we don't win the title, then as long as we qualify for CL - I don't really care where we finish. I think we'll win a domestic Cup and have a good run at CL with this team.

I'd rather see Tuanzebe go on loan and make his bones elsewhere. That will increase his chances of him becoming more than a squad player. Bailly can become a Johnsen like CB if he can remain fit. Its too early to judge Lindelof while the rest are either squad players (Smalling) or not good enough (Jones and Rojo). Thus is of course not good enough which is why Mou wants a top CB. However I doubt we'll achieve that by getting him his 3rd and 4th choice.

My point is very simple. We need to take things into context ie by analysing the squad and analysing our competitors. If we add 1 upgrade (ie Fred) while failing to replace our ageing makeshift wingers who are acting as fullbacks then its really one step forward and two step back. If we add 1 top talent and our competitors add 2-3 top talents then we had regressed since we've moved one step forward while they had moved 3 step forward. I can sympathise that its not possible adding 6-7 players at one go. However, they need to understand that unfortunately years of under-investment has lead us to this situation and we won't get off this hole unless we invest heavily. I mean look at the side. We've now replaced Carrick and hopefully (finger crossed) Dalot will replace Valencia. Next year the LB will collapse (Young is old and I am more hopefully of the second coming of Christ then Shaw making it with us), we'll still have issues as CB, we've got no RW, Martial will need to be replaced and we would still need a top cover/competitor for Lukaku. After that what makes you think that the likes of DDG and Pogba would still be happy staying at 'the biggest non achieving club' in the world? We'll swiftly descending into yet another Arsenal a team whose just happy with a top 4 position, maybe some mickey mouse cup (FA or league cup) and a decent run in the CL.

 

[villain]

I'd rather see Tuanzebe go on loan and make his bones elsewhere. That will increase his chances of him becoming more than a squad player. Bailly can become a Johnsen like CB if he can remain fit. Its too early to judge Lindelof while the rest are either squad players (Smalling) or not good enough (Jones and Rojo). Thus is of course not good enough which is why Mou wants a top CB. However I doubt we'll achieve that by getting him his 3rd and 4th choice.

My point is very simple. We need to take things into context ie by analysing the squad and analysing our competitors. If we add 1 upgrade (ie Fred) while failing to replace our ageing makeshift wingers who are acting as fullbacks then its really one step forward and two step back. If we add 1 top talent and our competitors add 2-3 top talents then we had regressed since we've moved one step forward while they had moved 3 step forward. I can sympathise that its not possible adding 6-7 players at one go. However, they need to understand that unfortunately years of under-investment has lead us to this situation and we won't get off this hole unless we invest heavily. I mean look at the side. We've now replaced Carrick and hopefully (finger crossed) Dalot will replace Valencia. Next year the LB will collapse (Young is old and I am more hopefully of the second coming of Christ then Shaw making it with us), we'll still have issues as CB, we've got no RW, Martial will need to be replaced and we would still need a top cover/competitor for Lukaku. After that what makes you think that the likes of DDG and Pogba would still be happy staying at 'the biggest non achieving club' in the world? We'll swiftly descending into yet another Arsenal a team whose just happy with a top 4 position, maybe some mickey mouse cup (FA or league cup) and a decent run in the CL.

A whole post full of ifs, buts & hypotheticals that have yet to materialise. I don't like to try and make sense out of made up scenarios.

Like I said earlier, it sounds like you've accepted defeat before a ball has been kicked.

 

[devilish]

OK, but where do you think Bailly and Lindelof fit into this equation? Were they first choice or last choice when he bought them?

As any employee in the world we tend to cover up our superiors mistakes as much as possible. Which might explain why SAF used to constantly changed his tune from 'I want 4 players' to 'I am happy with my squad'. Thus some employees tend to have less tolerance to BS then others and we've seen SAF's successors complaining about our inability to bring in the players they want and being forced to either make due with what they have or bring in their plan C. Moyes for example wanted Fabregas but has to make due with Fellaini. Mou has said this year that he gave a list of 5 players. However he'll be very lucky if he ends up with 1 of them.

So to answer your question I really have no clue if Bailly and Lindelof were up the list or not. What we do know is that our club is hardly the most competent in bringing the players the manager want.

 

[Sterling Archer]

3 at the back system relies on really good fullbacks. Valencia and Young would be a car-crash. Well, Young did a good job for England at the World Cup but we don’t have a player like Tripper on the other flank. Valencia can’t cross and can’t get up and down like he used to.

Agreed. Young is fine there. I'd like to see Dalot make a name for himself on the right. Whether it's a back four or five . Most of us agree we're unsatisfied with Valencia there from an attacking sense. So that's a low bar for him to hurdle

 

[MUFC OK]

It’s bizarre. Founded on absolutely nothing as well.

Really impressed with him at the WC, obviously haven't seen much of him at Barca but he looks to have the tools to become a top player and is a massive threat from corners. If Liverpool were signing him it'd be labelled the bargain of the window.

 

[Ekeke]

Literally bought Walker from a premier league rival and paid a premium to get him. Most expensive fullback in the world until they signed Mendy.

Money well spent as well considering he was absolutely immense and one of City's best last year.

City didn't baulk at the price tag and settle for another target for less. They didn't mess around with their key positions.

Spurs arent their rival

 

[gr3yham3]

Really impressed with him at the WC, obviously haven't seen much of him at Barca but he looks to have the tools to become a top player and is a massive threat from corners. If Liverpool were signing him it'd be labelled the bargain of the window.

Agreed. Some people are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I am not saying that he will be a sure success if he joins, but those who already label him a failure are surely jumping the gun. Most of us have only seen him during the WC. I am sure our scouts and Jose have seen him many, many more times.

 

[devilish]

A whole post full of ifs, buts & hypotheticals that have yet to materialise. I don't like to try and make sense out of made up scenarios.

Like I said earlier, it sounds like you've accepted defeat before a ball has been kicked.

Not really. Its a snapshot of what's happening today. We added Fred (1 upgrade). Shitty who ended up with a looping 19 points ahead of us had also added 1 upgrade (Mahrez) which suggest that they kept the distance from us. Liverpool on the other hand had added 4 top players which will further boost their rather young side. So its not silly to think that they end up bridging that wafer thin 6 points gap between us.

That's a rather simplified way to see it. For example Valencia and Young who already shown signs of wear and tear will be one year older. Martial on the other hand had already publically stated that he wants to leave which suggest he's poorly motivated for next season. At that point I wonder how long it will take before Pogba and DDG realises that they are playing with the new Tottenham (ie a team who constantly aim for top 4 without winning anything) and move to greener pastures. That's a normal thing for top quality players to do.

Squads are like a house build on a cliff near the sea. They need constant restoration else they degenerate quickly. Once it degenerated it need more than standard restoration to keep it in place.