[Josh 76]

Where does this guy stand in the list of worst ten players to have ever worn our jersey?

For a player who started so many games. He is the worst ever. We may have had players who only played a couple of times who were very bad. But even those may have done a lot better if they were given a run of games like Weghorst did.

 

[Chris-Red]

Anyone who thinks that, with the parameters of having 3m to spend on a 6-month loan - that a League One level striker was the only or best option available is deluding themselves. And there seem to be many. It’s even the hypocrisy of the CAF. It’s just great lengths to completely absolve Ten Hag of the decision to bring Weghorst in (presumably because we like him), in a manner that no other United manager in recent times would have just been excused.

3m for a 6 month loan is round about fair value for majority of top flight players who go on loan. Probably amongst the more expensive in the loan market for that matter. Nobody wants to face the very likely fact that, given the circumstances of needing a short term option, Ten Had decided, fairly early in the market too, that he wanted Wout Weghorst. It wasn’t even easy to get him. He wasn’t ‘available’, we had to go and get him out of an existing loan deal and compensate his loan club as a result. For whatever reason, Ten Hag saw him as the best stop gap option. It wasn’t under duress, many people on here were saying similar crap at the time about how much of a good option he will be, and even pundits were saying similar. It’s clearly just a view that Ten Hag held, and it was a terrible one.

I’m a fan of Ten Hag. Everyone makes mistakes and this was one. Weghorst… nice guy, poor footballer. Should have got a decent/competent striker for the money they had available.

 

[TheLittleOne]

31 appearances is astonishing

 

[stevoc]

Anyone who thinks that, with the parameters of having 3m to spend on a 6-month loan - that a League One level striker was the only or best option available is deluding themselves. And there seem to be many. It’s even the hypocrisy of the CAF. It’s just great lengths to completely absolve Ten Hag of the decision to bring Weghorst in (presumably because we like him), in a manner that no other United manager in recent times would have just been excused.

3m for a 6 month loan is round about fair value for majority of top flight players who go on loan. Probably amongst the more expensive in the loan market for that matter. Nobody wants to face the very likely fact that, given the circumstances of needing a short term option, Ten Had decided, fairly early in the market too, that he wanted Wout Weghorst. It wasn’t even easy to get him. He wasn’t ‘available’, we had to go and get him out of an existing loan deal and compensate his loan club as a result. For whatever reason, Ten Hag saw him as the best stop gap option. It wasn’t under duress, many people on here were saying similar crap at the time about how much of a good option he will be, and even pundits were saying similar. It’s clearly just a view that Ten Hag held, and it was a terrible one.

Sad thing is it likely cost the club at least double that when you factor in loan fee and the rumoured £2.5m compensation to Besiktas.

 

[Jeppers7]

No correction we needed someone decent.



What point do you believe you are making here?

Do you know which strikers were on the clubs scouting radar?

Do you know which strikers were offered to United in January by agents/clubs?

Do you know which strikers the club approached before signing Weghorst?



So why did he sign him and then proceed to use him almost every game despite alternatives then?

Which other players were on the list? Or do you believe he was literally the only striker we could afford? Him being Dutch is a coincindence I supose?

I get that everyone loves ETH right now, me too but we shouldn't be deflecting from the fact that singing Weghorst was almost certainly his idea and it was a bad one.

£6-8 mill including wages and Martial getting injured. Do you know who else we could’ve signed for a similar amount because if you can’t name anyone, then it’s a safe guess that Mbappe, Benzema, Kane, etc weren’t available at that price.

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

I’m a fan of Ten Hag. Everyone makes mistakes and this was one. Weghorst… nice guy, poor footballer. Should have got a decent/competent striker for the money they had available.

Nobody’s perfect, sure, but I think his persistence in playing WW (31 appearances!) long after it was clear to everyone else on the planet that he clearly wasn’t good enough points to a more general issue with ETH’s stubbornness.

Sticking to your guns is not necessarily always a bad thing, but it is something I’ve noticed with ETH in other areas, such as his very rigid attitude as to who plays where in defence and how (eg left footed defender at LCB, or insisting our fullbacks push forward as auxiliary strikers when none do them are good at it).

 

[Rozay]

Sad thing is it likely cost the club at least double that when you factor in loan fee and the rumoured £2.5m compensation to Besiktas.

Indeed. There were certainly better options. Like the man who replaced Weghorst at Besiktas as just one example. Aboubakar is comfortably better than him.

 

[Jeppers7]

Anyone who thinks that, with the parameters of having 3m to spend on a 6-month loan - that a League One level striker was the only or best option available is deluding themselves. And there seem to be many. It’s even the hypocrisy of the CAF. It’s just great lengths to completely absolve Ten Hag of the decision to bring Weghorst in (presumably because we like him), in a manner that no other United manager in recent times would have just been excused.

3m for a 6 month loan is round about fair value for majority of top flight players who go on loan. Probably amongst the more expensive in the loan market for that matter. Nobody wants to face the very likely fact that, given the circumstances of needing a short term option, Ten Had decided, fairly early in the market too, that he wanted Wout Weghorst. It wasn’t even easy to get him. He wasn’t ‘available’, we had to go and get him out of an existing loan deal and compensate his loan club as a result. For whatever reason, Ten Hag saw him as the best stop gap option. It wasn’t under duress, many people on here were saying similar crap at the time about how much of a good option he will be, and even pundits were saying similar. It’s clearly just a view that Ten Hag held, and it was a terrible one.

I usually agree with you, and certainly groaned whenever I saw Weghorst appearing but can you give some examples? Felix as an example of someone I wanted (wrongly) was 10mill and 250k a week. £16 mill in total.

 

[Brophs]

Why are people being so mean? He absolutely smashed DDG’s clean sheet record.

 

[Lay]

Indeed. There were certainly better options. Like the man who replaced Weghorst at Besiktas as just one example. Aboubakar is comfortably better than him.

This. That’s the guy I wanted for a short term deal. He’s limited but better than this so called striker

 

[Rozay]

I usually agree with you, and certainly groaned whenever I saw Weghorst appearing but can you give some examples? Felix as an example of someone I wanted (wrongly) was 10mill and 250k a week. £16 mill in total.

The spectrum of footballers between Joao Felix, a 126m signing for Atletico and Wout Weghorst is absolutely enormous. And it’s extremely far-fetched I think to suggest that we couldn’t have gotten anyone that lies within that huge gap.

Aboubakar, I’ve mentioned, is better than Weghorst.

Danny Ings went on loan in January, and is far better than Weghorst.

Chris Wood went on loan in January and he’s better than Weghorst.

Ayoze Perez went on loan in January and he’s better than Weghorst.

Matheus Cunha went on loan in January and is better than Weghorst.

Goncalo Guedes went on loan in January is better than Weghorst.

There were others who could have allowed us to play Rashford more centrally like Toko Ekambi who went on loan, or Tete who went on loan.

Like come on, it’s not hard to improve upon Wout Weghorst. Everyone asking ‘who then’ - did we all agree at the start of January when asking ourselves who that we obviously meant ‘who instead of Wout Weghorst’ or something? He should have never been an option. And if he was to be an option, then Connor Wickham at Forest Green may as well have been an option. The ‘who’ options are almost infinite if the parameters are ‘3m or less and better than Wout Weghorst’.

We didn’t even get Weghorst on January 31st having exhausted every avenue. We did the deal early because our manager likes him.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

The spectrum of footballers between Joao Felix, a 126m signing for Atletico and Wout Weghorst is absolutely enormous. And it’s extremely far-fetched I think to suggest that we couldn’t have gotten anyone that lies within that huge gap.

Aboubakar, I’ve mentioned, is better than Weghorst.

Danny Ings went on loan in January, and is far better than Weghorst.

Chris Wood went on loan in January and he’s better than Weghorst.

Ayoze Perez went on loan in January and he’s better than Weghorst.

Matheus Cunha went on loan in January and is better than Weghorst.

Goncalo Guedes went on loan in January is better than Weghorst.

There were others who could have allowed us to play Rashford more centrally like Toko Ekambi who went on loan, or Tete who went on loan.

Like come on, it’s not hard to improve upon Wout Weghorst. Everyone asking ‘who then’ - did we all agree at the start of January when asking ourselves who that we obviously meant ‘who instead of Wout Weghorst’ or something? He should have never been an option. And if he was to be an option, then Connor Wickham at Forest Green may as well have been an option. The ‘who’ options are almost infinite if the parameters are ‘3m or less and better than Wout Weghorst’.

We didn’t even get Weghorst on January 31st having exhausted every avenue. We did the deal early because our manager likes him.

I agree we could probably have signed someone better but not all of those were loans. Ings was a permanent deal for £15m, Cunha had an obligation to buy for £44m after playing 3 games and Wood was also the same for £15m.

 

[friendlytramp]

Nobody’s perfect, sure, but I think his persistence in playing WW (31 appearances!) long after it was clear to everyone else on the planet that he clearly wasn’t good enough points to a more general issue with ETH’s stubbornness.

who would he have played instead?

 

[RedBanker]

I agree we could probably have signed someone better but not all of those were loans. Ings was a permanent deal for £15m, Cunha had an obligation to buy for £44m after playing 3 games and Wood was also the same for £15m.

Ok. That's 3 out of the 8 players he named. The other 5 could have also offered much more than the waste of space we went for.

 

[RedBanker]

The spectrum of footballers between Joao Felix, a 126m signing for Atletico and Wout Weghorst is absolutely enormous. And it’s extremely far-fetched I think to suggest that we couldn’t have gotten anyone that lies within that huge gap.

Aboubakar, I’ve mentioned, is better than Weghorst.

Danny Ings went on loan in January, and is far better than Weghorst.

Chris Wood went on loan in January and he’s better than Weghorst.

Ayoze Perez went on loan in January and he’s better than Weghorst.

Matheus Cunha went on loan in January and is better than Weghorst.

Goncalo Guedes went on loan in January is better than Weghorst.

There were others who could have allowed us to play Rashford more centrally like Toko Ekambi who went on loan, or Tete who went on loan.

Like come on, it’s not hard to improve upon Wout Weghorst. Everyone asking ‘who then’ - did we all agree at the start of January when asking ourselves who that we obviously meant ‘who instead of Wout Weghorst’ or something? He should have never been an option. And if he was to be an option, then Connor Wickham at Forest Green may as well have been an option. The ‘who’ options are almost infinite if the parameters are ‘3m or less and better than Wout Weghorst’.

We didn’t even get Weghorst on January 31st having exhausted every avenue. We did the deal early because our manager likes him.

Great post.

 

[flappyjay]

who would he have played instead?

All the times he moved Bruno to the wing to accommodate Weghorst are all the times he could have subbed in Pellestri.

 

[flappyjay]

Indeed. There were certainly better options. Like the man who replaced Weghorst at Besiktas as just one example. Aboubakar is comfortably better than him.

I was hoping for Aboubaker at the time.

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

who would he have played instead?

In the absence of Martial, Rashford up front, and any of various combinations on the wings depending on availability and the opposition ie two from Antony, Sancho, Garnacho, Bruno or Pellistri. In other words, basically what ETH eventually did once he realised WW wasn’t working.

 

[Ish]

Ok. That's 3 out of the 8 players he named. The other 5 could have also offered much more than the waste of space we went for.

Guedes and Ayoze aren’t really central players are they - and it was clear the plan was to get someone in who played CF, and potentially offers something different (a physical presence up front who presses etc). It’s debatable whether anyone knew Aboubakar would have been better (though having seen WW for Burnley, I’d have gone for Aboubakar myself), but he was definitely linked so probably someone we did consider/look at as a serious option.

Overall, I don’t disagree with @Rozay’s point. It was shoddy planning and an appalling signing (with hindsight we might add) but Ronaldo’s antics also forced our hand, with Martial becoming Phil Jones reincarnated more and more as time passes. Considering all these circumstances, & our budgetary constraints - we were essentially basement bargain shopping and it’s not a massive surprise that the manager ended up going with someone he knew and trusted (& who was on decent form in Turkey iirc).

But yeah, I don’t think ive ever seen a player so far out of his depth for us. That’s even taking Bebe, Taibi & Prunier into account

 

[stevoc]

£6-8 mill including wages and Martial getting injured. Do you know who else we could’ve signed for a similar amount because if you can’t name anyone,

Neither can you it seems, give me a list of who was available in January?

Because if you don't know then it's a pointless question and exercise. You are basically just asking me to name strikers who I think are better than Weghorst. Which would take some time.

then it’s a safe guess that Mbappe, Benzema, Kane, etc weren’t available at that price.

So you're saying the club realised that they couldn't sign Mbappe, Benzema or Kane so turned to Weghorst as he was the first name on the list that they could afford?

So there would have been no other options between those two extremes, do you really believe that?

 

[stevoc]

Indeed. There were certainly better options. Like the man who replaced Weghorst at Besiktas as just one example. Aboubakar is comfortably better than him.

Yep and he came from the Saudi league which says it all really.

No the only logical explanation for us signing Weghorst is that for whatever reason Ten Hag fancied him.

 

[stevoc]

who would he have played instead?

Weghorst started and came on in quite a few games in the no10 position.

You telling he was always the best option available when used there?

 

[golden_blunder]

Goals aside he did ok. He didn’t really negatively impact the season overall.

 

[Rozay]

Guedes and Ayoze aren’t really central players are they - and it was clear the plan was to get someone in who played CF, and potentially offers something different (a physical presence up front who presses etc). It’s debatable whether anyone knew Aboubakar would have been better (though having seen WW for Burnley, I’d have gone for Aboubakar myself), but he was definitely linked so probably someone we did consider/look at as a serious option.

Overall, I don’t disagree with @Rozay’s point. It was shoddy planning and an appalling signing (with hindsight we might add) but Ronaldo’s antics also forced our hand, with Martial becoming Phil Jones reincarnated more and more as time passes. Considering all these circumstances, & our budgetary constraints - we were essentially basement bargain shopping and it’s not a massive surprise that the manager ended up going with someone he knew and trusted (& who was on decent form in Turkey iirc).

But yeah, I don’t think ive ever seen a player so far out of his depth for us. That’s even taking Bebe, Taibi & Prunier into account

I mean, my list was of course not exhaustive of all the possibilities that lay somewhere between Joao Felix and Wout Weghorst. You also have expiring contracts of players at lower tier clubs for example, like Marcus Thuram or Moussa Dembele, both who are now out of contract. I’m sure their clubs would have taken 3m for 6 months for either.

And then the any number of players who are not at the tip of my tongue. If any club in the top 3 or 4 leagues signed a striker on loan, there is a very good chance that player was better than Wout Weghorst.

 

[Ish]

I mean, my list was of course not exhaustive of all the possibilities that lay somewhere between Joao Felix and Wout Weghorst. You also have expiring contracts of players at lower tier clubs for example, like Marcus Thuram or Moussa Dembele, both who are now out of contract. I’m sure their clubs would have taken 3m for 6 months for either.

And then the any number of players who are not at the tip of my tongue. If any club in the top 3 or 4 leagues signed a striker on loan, there is a very good chance that player was better than Wout Weghorst.

Yeah, like I said, I agree with your overall point but I also believe we were extremely hamstrung with finances, added in that the whole world knew we were fairly desperate, plus the minimal amount of business done during January and you’re in for a torrid time, irrespective.

Not a good look on our scouting department either - essentially bring the options down to WW & Aboubakar, where I’m sure there were more options out there. I guess literally no one knew exactly how shit WW was going to end up being, plus Martial (lest we forget) was actually first choice.

 

[buckooo1978]

Mad when you consider we played Weghorst at Number 10 away at Camp Nou.....

still in a crazy way we might not have won the League Cup without him though i could be reaching.

Poor scouting from club really to end up with Wout who failed at this level at Burnley

 

[Idxomer]

That list of options doesn't make Weghorst look that bad, all of them are forwards whose scoring record has been a bit shit lately and barely any better than Weghorst's. Aboubakar is the only exception but he isn't playing at a top league.

Getting Weghorst wasn't the worst idea considering the market but the insistence on playing him while shuffling around our best players' positions was the bigger problem.

 

[klayton88]

Goals aside he did ok. He didn’t really negatively impact the season overall.

Goals aside? He is apparently a striker.

 

[KirkDuyt]

The point of a game is to win and get 3 points. Not to get Weghorst on the scoresheet. The more we passed to Weghorst the lesser the chance of scoring and thus of winning. That’s neither Rashford’s nor Bruno’s fault. They did what they (correctly) thought was the best for the team.

I know I know. I just feel so bad for poor sad looking Wout. He's just so so so sad.

 

[Seveneric]

Anyone who thinks that, with the parameters of having 3m to spend on a 6-month loan - that a League One level striker was the only or best option available is deluding themselves. And there seem to be many. It’s even the hypocrisy of the CAF. It’s just great lengths to completely absolve Ten Hag of the decision to bring Weghorst in (presumably because we like him), in a manner that no other United manager in recent times would have just been excused.

3m for a 6 month loan is round about fair value for majority of top flight players who go on loan. Probably amongst the more expensive in the loan market for that matter.

Nah, you must be able to list 15 players United could have signed, or you’re not allowed to hold that opinion. Weghorst is certainly the best player in the entirety of all the leagues across the world that the club could have gotten /s

 

[stevoc]

Mad when you consider we played Weghorst at Number 10 away at Camp Nou.....

still in a crazy way we might not have won the League Cup without him though i could be reaching.

Poor scouting from club really to end up with Wout who failed at this level at Burnley

Yeah, like I said, I agree with your overall point but I also believe we were extremely hamstrung with finances, added in that the whole world knew we were fairly desperate, plus the minimal amount of business done during January and you’re in for a torrid time, irrespective.

Not a good look on our scouting department either - essentially bring the options down to WW & Aboubakar, where I’m sure there were more options out there. I guess literally no one knew exactly how shit WW was going to end up being, plus Martial (lest we forget) was actually first choice.

Do we know for sure the scouting department were even involved with identifying him though?

He doesn't strike me as a player who approaching 30 and given his style that would have been on the clubs radar going into 2023.

Ten Hag since he arrived has basically dictated who the club should sign or try to sign bar probably Casemiro. Isn't it a reasonable assumption that the Wout signing was his idea?

 

[BorisManUtd]

Goals aside? He is apparently a striker.

Goals are ego thing.

 

[Chris-Red]

Nobody’s perfect, sure, but I think his persistence in playing WW (31 appearances!) long after it was clear to everyone else on the planet that he clearly wasn’t good enough points to a more general issue with ETH’s stubbornness.

Sticking to your guns is not necessarily always a bad thing, but it is something I’ve noticed with ETH in other areas, such as his very rigid attitude as to who plays where in defence and how (eg left footed defender at LCB, or insisting our fullbacks push forward as auxiliary strikers when none do them are good at it).

Yeah that’s a very valid point. It was always frustrating to see Weghorst coming in when we needed a goal. He showed no signs in any matches of increasing our likelihood of scoring.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Nobody’s perfect, sure, but I think his persistence in playing WW (31 appearances!) long after it was clear to everyone else on the planet that he clearly wasn’t good enough points to a more general issue with ETH’s stubbornness.

Sticking to your guns is not necessarily always a bad thing, but it is something I’ve noticed with ETH in other areas, such as his very rigid attitude as to who plays where in defence and how (eg left footed defender at LCB, or insisting our fullbacks push forward as auxiliary strikers when none do them are good at it).

Is the left footed LCB preference a Dutch thing? I remember LVG had the exact same obsession, to the point where even Tyler Blackett got playing time.

 

[golden_blunder]

Goals aside? He is apparently a striker.

He worked his socks off, pressing from the front which is an ETH requirement just as much as goals. Do I think he was the best? No he was a shit striker overall but he didn’t affect us negatively overall

 

[Rozay]

Arnaut Danjuma also moved on loan in January.

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

Is the left footed LCB preference a Dutch thing? I remember LVG had the exact same obsession, to the point where even Tyler Blackett got playing time.

I think ETH’s specific reason is that he wants his centre backs to fill in as a fullback on their side when the actual fullback is playing as a forward, so having a lefty on the left wing would be advantageous. I’m no tactical expert but I guess that would be in line with the Dutch total football approach.

 

[Glorio]

He worked his socks off, pressing from the front which is an ETH requirement just as much as goals. Do I think he was the best? No he was a shit striker overall but he didn’t affect us negatively overall

I think he definitely did impact our attack negatively as a good few times, more talented players were moved out of position to accommodate him.

He did fine with the pressing, but even with that, his complete lack of pace didn't help. There were instances where we'd make a sub, start improving marginally, and just go completely blunt when Wout came on as a second sub.

I felt he was technically Ok but I don't remember seeing any striker so slow, and who actually gets smaller than his actual height when going for a header - really bizarre how we scored so much in Germany and Turkey

 

[stevoc]

He worked his socks off, pressing from the front which is an ETH requirement just as much as goals. Do I think he was the best? No he was a shit striker overall but he didn’t affect us negatively overall

Well to be fair if we had had a striker that had the same work rate but also chipped in with 6-10 goals over 31 games I imagine that would have had a positive affect on our fortunes this season.

 

[Rozay]

He worked his socks off, pressing from the front which is an ETH requirement just as much as goals. Do I think he was the best? No he was a shit striker overall but he didn’t affect us negatively overall

He did impact us negatively. Firstly, a non-scoring striker in and of itself is a huge negative for the team. Secondly, he’s ridiculously slow, and as a result limits our ability to stretch teams and threaten behind. He changed the way we attacked, and so many occasions I saw our attack have to reroute in real time because the most obvious and threatening pass could not be played, simply because the striker is Weghorst.