This is a brilliant post.
Would you take a season like Arsenal's previous one if offered now?
- Thread starter Sir Erik ten Hag
- Start date
I agree too. Lest us not forget, the league cup we once referred to as Mickey mouse when we were winning things regularly. As far as I'm concerned, rightly or wrongly, winning said Mickey mouse cup means nothing in the grand scheme of things when you've won it all unless it's added to a league title of course. Also feels a tad more empty when that lot win the treble at the same time. I do get its a first trophy for Erik though.
I'd take us seriously challenging for the title and playing dominating, stylish football every day. As said though, this takes time and I fear time Erik won't get when we sell out to the sheikh. I have a feeling he's gonna be a bit more hands on than the leeches! Like he's got a PS pad in his hands playing FIFA.
The League Cup has become more important over the last 20 years. Mourinho's first Chelsea side changed it imo.
And regardless of what Arsenal did last season, you don't win anything for "challenging". Finishing 3rd and winning the League Cup is better than finishing 2nd and not winning anything.
Never. We had a better season than them - 3rd in the league and a trophy.
Settling for 2nd is accepting defeat when we’ve only played 3 games out of 38.
Settling for 2nd is accepting defeat when we’ve only played 3 games out of 38.
Could you see us finishing 3rd in the league and winning a trophy after 3 games last season?
We had a better season, actually winning a trophy. I’ll take being third, winning a trophy, reaching another final, over finishing second and not winning anything.
They did it with a team of young and improving players. That's what I want us to be, so yes.
What? Of course I would, that was my aim even before the season.
Think too many people are misunderstanding the post. It's not "who had a better season last year based on results".
Yes, I think this is abundantly obvious. It's not about criticising Arsenal for blowing it or whether they won silverware last year, it's purely about pragmatically taking something which is substantially better than what we produced last year and looks relatively hopeful rather than expected for what we'll produce this season.
They played much better football than us and scored more goals. Got more wins in the league, thus are closer to producing the type of consistency that will be required.
It's not about whether they won the league, it's about progress. There is a huge chasm between what we did and what City do. If we managed to produce the same points haul and average performance level of Arsenal it would represent a big stepping stone in ETH's progress. It would set us up to have a real crack at City the next year with another few signings.
In an ideal world where Man Utd is functioning how we want we should not want to "accept" second place, but in the real world where we're struggling to put forward convincing performance levels and finished light years off City, it would be a lot smarter to take that progress if it was offered. It would also say something about ten Hag. He would have demonstrated that not only can he win a cup competition, but that we're seeing tangible league progress towards an elite standard. Which would be another massive tick from my point of view. At the moment we only have one season to baseline against which was satisfactory.
They played much better football than us and scored more goals. Got more wins in the league, thus are closer to producing the type of consistency that will be required.
It's not about whether they won the league, it's about progress. There is a huge chasm between what we did and what City do. If we managed to produce the same points haul and average performance level of Arsenal it would represent a big stepping stone in ETH's progress. It would set us up to have a real crack at City the next year with another few signings.
In an ideal world where Man Utd is functioning how we want we should not want to "accept" second place, but in the real world where we're struggling to put forward convincing performance levels and finished light years off City, it would be a lot smarter to take that progress if it was offered. It would also say something about ten Hag. He would have demonstrated that not only can he win a cup competition, but that we're seeing tangible league progress towards an elite standard. Which would be another massive tick from my point of view. At the moment we only have one season to baseline against which was satisfactory.
Yes. Then progress would have been made.
what, the greatest ever 28 game premier league season?
The way Arsenal are playing and how consistently they're getting results, they'll eventually end up winning some trophies.
Crawl before you walk and they're on a steady upward trajectory. Can't say the same for us.
How's this a question?
It's like choosing between loosing a finger and losing an arm.
And whoever says no needs a reality check
It's like choosing between loosing a finger and losing an arm.
And whoever says no needs a reality check
They've been poor in all 3 games this season, and literally just drew at home to 10-men Fulham.
It's really rare for a team to win a title on the first go challenging for it. Chelsea were challenging under Ranieri before Mourinho took them to the next step. City were getting closer and closer before winning their first title in 2012. Mourinho's Chelsea were in a 3 horse race with Liverpool and City in 2014 before going on to win it the following season and the same for Liverpool under Klopp. Even our dominance under Fergie started in 1993 after coming really close the previous. Only Leicester really in recent memory came out of nowhere to win a title. Considering that, a season where we properly challenge and for this group to get a proper taste of what it's like to come close is probably a necessary step to eventually winning the title.
Nope. We will win the league this season. Mark my words.
I'd rather win shit than have nothing. Still have Casemiro holding the cup as my wallpaper.
They've been consistent enough last season for me come to the conclusion that they're not very far from a title winning team that's if they start kicking on which i'm expecting them to.
The league where we're judged on away performances against top 10 in reverse order?
It can be both that we had a better season than Arsenal last year, but also that their season lays the better fundation for this one.
So if you speak only about throphies/points, we were better and i would prefeer to lift a cup over 2nd place in the league. But if we are talking about progression/performance on the pitch they were probably better.
I still would not change seasons as i am still very optimistic about what ETH will do here, and think if we at least performe like last year we have even more to build on and can challange seriously next year for the PL/CL.
So if you speak only about throphies/points, we were better and i would prefeer to lift a cup over 2nd place in the league. But if we are talking about progression/performance on the pitch they were probably better.
I still would not change seasons as i am still very optimistic about what ETH will do here, and think if we at least performe like last year we have even more to build on and can challange seriously next year for the PL/CL.
That's absolutely useless and proven on many occasions. We were predicted to be in a title race after the season Mourinho finished 2nd, and how did that end? Same can be said with Chelsea when they became champions, Liverpool coming second in 21/22, etc.
One season doesn't correlate into another one.Arsenal themselves finished second in 15/16 and then couldn't break into top 4 for 6 seasons afterwards..
Of course I would.
The most important thing for us right now is getting back to being perennial Champions League participants, so I'd happily take second place this season with no trophies because it means consecutive seasons in the CL for the first time in 5 years.
Our current trajectory isn't good. All the teams around us got better this summer, and we clearly did not. In fact it almost seems like we got worse. We're gonna be in a battle for top 4 (even if top 5 get CL this season, it's still not a sure thing for us) as it is, and all it takes is to lose Casemiro or Bruno to a long-term injury and we're in real trouble.
So yeah, if you offered me guaranteed CL football next season right now, I'd gladly take it, and hope we use the next week plus the January and summer windows next year to make several changes to this squad that will put us in a position to actually compete.
The most important thing for us right now is getting back to being perennial Champions League participants, so I'd happily take second place this season with no trophies because it means consecutive seasons in the CL for the first time in 5 years.
Our current trajectory isn't good. All the teams around us got better this summer, and we clearly did not. In fact it almost seems like we got worse. We're gonna be in a battle for top 4 (even if top 5 get CL this season, it's still not a sure thing for us) as it is, and all it takes is to lose Casemiro or Bruno to a long-term injury and we're in real trouble.
So yeah, if you offered me guaranteed CL football next season right now, I'd gladly take it, and hope we use the next week plus the January and summer windows next year to make several changes to this squad that will put us in a position to actually compete.
Great thread to remind people that it took 3 poor to average seasons for Arsenal under Arteta to get to the point of contending for the title last season. We’re barely in year 2 of ten Hag, so if we can manage anything close to a title charge than we’re ahead of schedule.
All promise ending in a stuttering capitulation to City?
Nope.
Nope.
Absolutely not. feck that and feck Arsenal. I want to win something.
This is probably a common opinion on Redcafe because people are whiny little drama merchants on this forum, but we competed in four trophies last season right up until the end, INCLUDING the Premier League, and beat Arsenal 3-1 early on last year too. Would I like to be the best loser again? No. No I wouldn't. I genuinely preferred our season. We won a trophy and were in contention for two more excepting some absolutely awful performances by de Gea when it came to the crunch in those games.
Just don't agree at all. For a start, Arsenal have been atrocious so far this season and just dropped two points at home to Fulham. We MIGHT lose to them, but it's on their patch, you have to back yourself in the home games, so it's not going to be the end of the world if they -do- win versus ourselves.
I feel like articles like this one https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...le-2022-23-man-utd-chelsea-arsenal-liverpool/ show just where we (AND ARSENAL) were last season in terms of 'performances' if you're going to really die on the performance hill i.e. possession, XG, XG against stats and suchlike. Brighton and Liverpool were better on that front last season. And Brighton BATTERED Arsenal at their ground too https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65515864
I can't help thinking Liverpool are going to be the second best team in the league this year too, Arsenal will drop off, and we'll be top four contenders at best -depending completely on how well Hojlund, Mount and Onana do over the course of the season.
Absolutely.
I miss the thrill of being in a title race by the end of the season.
I miss the thrill of being in a title race by the end of the season.
Only on Caf will you see people claiming winning a League Cup means you had a better season than a team who was in a title race.
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Indeed, 10 years of awfulness have made people both delusional and bitter.
Anyone saying no is being a bit dim.
+1 league position with THIRTY more goals scored in the league and the exact same conceded....
+1 league position with THIRTY more goals scored in the league and the exact same conceded....
No. Why would anyone want to come second and win nothing. I'd rather finish 7th and win the Champions League. I'm not saying that's going to happen but if we are talking about Arsenal last season, yes they played some great football and had a great run in the league, but it was all for nothing. So no I wouldn't want that. I'd rather win something.
To win nothing. So, it's a no.
Either you rinse repeat what we've watched for 10 years - managers coming and going, vast sums spent and the odd minor trophy or you actually try and see some progress.
I hope I speak for the majority of this forum when I say I want to see us build something.
It would be a good result. But knowing the outcome of the season would rather ruin the point of watching it.
What a stupid fecking thread
We haven’t seriously challenged for the title in a decade, so if we close the gap then it’s progress. Everyone likes to conveniently forget that Arteta finished 8th, 8th and 5th in his first 3 seasons. Seems like ten Hag is ahead of schedule.
History will record that they won nothing in 2022/23.
History will record that we won The League Cup in 2022/23.
Their 2nd place will be a footnote and some piece of obscure trivia.
Our League Cup Win will be a keynote and another trophy to our long and illustrious list of accomplishments.
History will record that we won The League Cup in 2022/23.
Their 2nd place will be a footnote and some piece of obscure trivia.
Our League Cup Win will be a keynote and another trophy to our long and illustrious list of accomplishments.
From last season til this season, Arsenal seems to have completely stolen our art of Fergie's time winner, while we have regularly become the side to beaten in Fergie's time.