For me, there has been no plan for 10 years. What happened this season is not only a function of what we did this year, but what we haven't done for year 10 years plus. To be more direct, Ed Woodward.
Would anyone explain why this season all went to hell?
- Thread starter Strelok
- Start date
We're looking at a melting pot of shite here. You can't really point the finger at one single variable. The club has been run incompetently for far too long. I used to think that Pep and Klopp were the only managers capable of winning a major trophy post Fergie, but recently I've changed my mind. I genuinely don't think that they would have succeeded either.
This does kind of redeem Ole, Mourinho and Van Gaal(Moyes can only blame himself). At least to a certain degree. I can perhaps agree that none of them were good enough to begin with, but they also achieved just about what you could expect from their players(until they suddenly didn't). The bare minimum, if you will. I think long-term planning and good transfers are key. And it should probably be a coordinated effort between the manager and the club. You need people who understand football, good negotiators and money to spend. So far we only seem to have the latter.
As for this season in particular, I think everything went wrong at the same time. Most of our core came back from the Euros in ridiculously poor form and we didn't strengthen the midfield. This all culminated in disaster, and the for the first time since Ole took over you could tell that there was a negativity behind the scenes that not even his positive persona could fix.
Perhaps a better manager would have drilled the players better so that they could deal with darker times by playing on "autopilot" and grinding out OK results purely based on their system, but that is for the people who have the full story to decide. Regardless, everything went wrong: the players were poor individually, the overall play was the worst it had been under Ole and the dressing room was eventually lost.
I think sacking Ole was the right decision, but for every passing day it becomes clearer and clearer that the players were the biggest problem. It's also ironic that Bruno, Ronaldo, Sancho and DDG are our most important players now. So basically a Fergie player and 3 signings that happened under Ole. I don't know who should be credited for these, but they happened on his watch at least.
That is why I don't want to criticize Rangnick that much. It's not easy to take over mid-season. And the players seem to care even less now.
This does kind of redeem Ole, Mourinho and Van Gaal(Moyes can only blame himself). At least to a certain degree. I can perhaps agree that none of them were good enough to begin with, but they also achieved just about what you could expect from their players(until they suddenly didn't). The bare minimum, if you will. I think long-term planning and good transfers are key. And it should probably be a coordinated effort between the manager and the club. You need people who understand football, good negotiators and money to spend. So far we only seem to have the latter.
As for this season in particular, I think everything went wrong at the same time. Most of our core came back from the Euros in ridiculously poor form and we didn't strengthen the midfield. This all culminated in disaster, and the for the first time since Ole took over you could tell that there was a negativity behind the scenes that not even his positive persona could fix.
Perhaps a better manager would have drilled the players better so that they could deal with darker times by playing on "autopilot" and grinding out OK results purely based on their system, but that is for the people who have the full story to decide. Regardless, everything went wrong: the players were poor individually, the overall play was the worst it had been under Ole and the dressing room was eventually lost.
I think sacking Ole was the right decision, but for every passing day it becomes clearer and clearer that the players were the biggest problem. It's also ironic that Bruno, Ronaldo, Sancho and DDG are our most important players now. So basically a Fergie player and 3 signings that happened under Ole. I don't know who should be credited for these, but they happened on his watch at least.
That is why I don't want to criticize Rangnick that much. It's not easy to take over mid-season. And the players seem to care even less now.
do our players actually like each other? Going by what I saw vs Brighton I seriously doubt it
Woody is Goldbridge's FATHER!!!Saw this yesterday and now I can't unsee it watching the United Stand.
It all makes sense now!
Woody is Goldbridge's FATHER!!!
It all makes sense now!
The only explanation surely!
I think the second place finish created an illusion that we were slightly better and slightly closer to the top than we actually were. I don't really like bringing this up because I despise the argument that there's a weak league to explain a result. 38 game seasons are generally a fair barometer.
However I think the extenuating circumstances around Covid seemed to help us. We have always lacked a bit of energy, fitness, and physical prowess relative to the league and I think flat atmospheres helped to create testimonial paced games. Our better quality players could then get the space to nick results due to "individual brilliance."
That's my best theory on why we achieved a decent finish and yet have fallen so flat this year. We were probably never quite what you'd expect from a team finishing second to City. However, this is just part of the reason there's such a discrepancy. You can then start getting into specifics around our strategic direction, transfers, managers - the lot. They are obviously the big areas that explain why we've fallen so far, but I think there are specific reasons the fall looks so dramatic.
However I think the extenuating circumstances around Covid seemed to help us. We have always lacked a bit of energy, fitness, and physical prowess relative to the league and I think flat atmospheres helped to create testimonial paced games. Our better quality players could then get the space to nick results due to "individual brilliance."
That's my best theory on why we achieved a decent finish and yet have fallen so flat this year. We were probably never quite what you'd expect from a team finishing second to City. However, this is just part of the reason there's such a discrepancy. You can then start getting into specifics around our strategic direction, transfers, managers - the lot. They are obviously the big areas that explain why we've fallen so far, but I think there are specific reasons the fall looks so dramatic.
Absurd CR7 point. Kaka was shite and netted about 10 goals, Ronaldo has been brilliant for us and stuffed in like 25 goals, kept us in the Champions league and we would never have made the Europa League without him. You could argue we would be in a relegation battle without him. And he hasn't looked that bad in the high press. Also looks like the only one who gives a shit. Far from an idiotic decision, he's what salvaged this season. . Since when has signing a 25 goal scorer been an "idiotic decision"??? Idiotic opinion on Ronaldo more like it. Who would've scored the goals for us this year?
Seems pretty simple our shiteness . . . every single side, including Norwich, looks better coached than us.
I think you might be extending yourself into hyperbole there. You just concentrate on us a lot more than Norwich. What exactly have they been coached to do, let in 3 times as many goals as they score? They've also had to sack a coach such has been their good coaching.
It's all relative to the players of course, but contrary to what this place makes out, football doesn't revolve around us. There are plenty of other totally shite teams with shit coaches.
I think the biggest difference between United and Norwich City is Cristiano Ronaldo (and of course the money spent), which is kind of the point I was making before.
You do realize that without Ronaldo we would probably have finished 12th, and I'm no fanboi. Himself and DDG were our star (used loosely) players this season.
We wouldn't have finished 12th though, unless we'd have been starting with 10 men. Football isn't so linear and simplistic that removing one player from a team instantly removes all the points that player contributed towards with their goals
- Defensively as a team we are awful. Defending starts from the front. Our attackers are fecking lazy. They are as much to blame as well as the midfield for our porous defending.. Right from the get go this season players haven't been putting a shift in. Every game we are as open as feck and easy to get got at.
We always look disjointed, a part of this problem is in the coaching imo...Ole deserved the sack and Ralf has been disappointing
- Our most important players having poor seasons
Shaw, Rashford, Maguire and Bruno had good seasons last year. This year they've been very poor.
Too many others players off form hasn't helped. Varane, McTominay, Wan Bisakka, Pogba...You can get away with one or two having stinkers but not a whole fecking team.
- The fringe players also aren't good enough imo or injury prone. Useless. We have too many of them hanging around. People like Bailly and Lingard moaning from the sidelines has not helped at all.
- Greenwood charged has seriously limited up our striking options. Because of this and Cavani's vanishing act we're having to relying on a 37yr old Ronaldo to lead our attack week in week out..shocking for a club our size.
- I also think since getting dumped out of the champions league a lot of players like the fans have mentally checked out which is an absolute disgrace in my honest opinion.
We always look disjointed, a part of this problem is in the coaching imo...Ole deserved the sack and Ralf has been disappointing
- Our most important players having poor seasons
Shaw, Rashford, Maguire and Bruno had good seasons last year. This year they've been very poor.
Too many others players off form hasn't helped. Varane, McTominay, Wan Bisakka, Pogba...You can get away with one or two having stinkers but not a whole fecking team.
- The fringe players also aren't good enough imo or injury prone. Useless. We have too many of them hanging around. People like Bailly and Lingard moaning from the sidelines has not helped at all.
- Greenwood charged has seriously limited up our striking options. Because of this and Cavani's vanishing act we're having to relying on a 37yr old Ronaldo to lead our attack week in week out..shocking for a club our size.
- I also think since getting dumped out of the champions league a lot of players like the fans have mentally checked out which is an absolute disgrace in my honest opinion.
Agree with this.
On top of existing problems(not keeping the ball, not workng hard enough off it) the massive hit to confidence has been biggest difference this season. They're so fragile now and its got to previously consistent performers like Maguire and Shaw.
I think its mentally got to the players so much that new faces are the only solution.
We have to go for it this summer in a pretty unprecedented fashion. The only way.
It's not just the team managers wev'e had for the last 10 years. It is bad CLUB management from the board and Glazers that has caused our club to sink so low.
While other clubs are building New state of the art stadiums and training grounds as well as bringing in top players we are falling further and further away from the pack in every way.
Our stadium is badly in need of a revamp as well as our training ground. We should have a stadium which can house 85-90 thousand as we have the fans that would fill it every other week.
NOW where do I start about our team and the need to invest heavily for the next few years starting now.
We need 6 players this summer to start our rebuild.
CB, RB, DM, CM, RW, CF. and these should all be TOP players. We have to show the world that we are still the biggest club and can attract the best players.
Remember success on the pitch brings more riches off it regarding sponsorship and other deals. So wake up Glazers and either put the monies into the team and club rebuilding. or sell to someone that will.
While other clubs are building New state of the art stadiums and training grounds as well as bringing in top players we are falling further and further away from the pack in every way.
Our stadium is badly in need of a revamp as well as our training ground. We should have a stadium which can house 85-90 thousand as we have the fans that would fill it every other week.
NOW where do I start about our team and the need to invest heavily for the next few years starting now.
We need 6 players this summer to start our rebuild.
CB, RB, DM, CM, RW, CF. and these should all be TOP players. We have to show the world that we are still the biggest club and can attract the best players.
Remember success on the pitch brings more riches off it regarding sponsorship and other deals. So wake up Glazers and either put the monies into the team and club rebuilding. or sell to someone that will.
I am sure we have had a number of very similar threads....
For me, it boils down to a total lack of preparation pre-season with respect the style of football we actually intended to play.
I think Solskjaer did some good work at United, but I believe his attempts to make the transition from a middle-block/counter-attacking team to a progressive press and a high-line were too much for him and his staff.
Even from the Wolves game onwards, it was very obvious we were going to have serious issues with shape and structure. We should have lost that game 3-0/4-0 and Wolves didn't even have a senior CF on the pitch.
It was always going to be an almost impossible job for Rangnick to come in pre-season, take a side low on confidence, in the middle of any incredibly busy spell of games, and coach a new style and system into them. Klopp pointed out as much in one of his very first interviews after RR was appointed.
This does, however, give me optimism for next season. Contrary to popular belief, I do think we have maybe 6/7 players that could play an aggressive, pressing style, if this is the way ETH wants to set-up. I think more thorough work on the training field, clarity of ideas and a bit of belief will go a long way and we should at least be able to get top four next season imo and build from there
For me, it boils down to a total lack of preparation pre-season with respect the style of football we actually intended to play.
I think Solskjaer did some good work at United, but I believe his attempts to make the transition from a middle-block/counter-attacking team to a progressive press and a high-line were too much for him and his staff.
Even from the Wolves game onwards, it was very obvious we were going to have serious issues with shape and structure. We should have lost that game 3-0/4-0 and Wolves didn't even have a senior CF on the pitch.
It was always going to be an almost impossible job for Rangnick to come in pre-season, take a side low on confidence, in the middle of any incredibly busy spell of games, and coach a new style and system into them. Klopp pointed out as much in one of his very first interviews after RR was appointed.
This does, however, give me optimism for next season. Contrary to popular belief, I do think we have maybe 6/7 players that could play an aggressive, pressing style, if this is the way ETH wants to set-up. I think more thorough work on the training field, clarity of ideas and a bit of belief will go a long way and we should at least be able to get top four next season imo and build from there
Injection of a real world class player with the dedication and ambition to match into a dressing room of world class losers probably didn't help. Overall I'm sort of optimistic that even if the club doesn't get back to winning stuff in the short term that at least it'll be worth watching them play.
I think guys like Lingard throwing a strop as they realise the party is ending should be seen as a sign of optimism for the longer term.
I think guys like Lingard throwing a strop as they realise the party is ending should be seen as a sign of optimism for the longer term.
Adding Ronaldo's goals and DDG's saves appears as empirical data of the contribution of each player, but it's not how football really works. One thing that I forgot is that Greenwood got into trouble which also contributed to our crap season. In my opinion Ronaldo's arrival negatively affected many players' morale for whatever reason. I have no proof of that, but something broke. This team didn't play with Ronaldo.