Wot, no transfers?

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Ekeke said:
You didnt finish the sentence.

"Jones and Smalling on the other hand... Completely outperformed Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo last season"

Hopefully one of Bailly and Lindelof can step up and at least take Jones place in the team, if not cement themselves as someone we arent looking to improve on. To expect both of them to do it together is asking far too much from what we've seen of them, individually and together.
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Jones and Smalling have shown over many seasons they aren't consistent enough or good enough to start week in week out. Jones is injury prone and always has a mistake in him, lacks pace, clumsy, poor positioning.
Have you seen Jones get done by Hazard in the FA Cup Final? And then again by Hazard in the 3rd 4th place play off for England? Rojo is a crock too, not even worth mentioning him as if he'll pay more than a handful of games.
Neither Jones or Smalling can play the ball out too well from the back which is modern football. Or maybe not, Rio was incredible at doing it years ago. Either way they can't.
If anyone thinks they can be the basis for our defense week in week out next season I hope you weren't hoping for us to challenge for any competitions, because as they proved they aren't up to it against the best in the big games.

Coming back to my point, I'd like to see more of Lindelof. Made a couple of mistakes early on last year. But so did De Gea for his first season or two, didn't write him off.
Smalling and Jones have been doing that since we signed them and before.
In fact I remember when we signed Smalling from Fulham and he was labeled the next Rio and then I watched Fulham Villa and he got absolutely ripped apart by Gabby Agbonlahor and I realized it probably wasn't going to be.
 
Jezpeza said:
Jones and Smalling have shown over many seasons they aren't consistent enough or good enough to start week in week out. Jones is injury prone and always has a mistake in him, lacks pace, clumsy, poor positioning.
Have you seen Jones get done by Hazard in the FA Cup Final? And then again by Hazard in the 3rd 4th place play off for England? Rojo is a crock too, not even worth mentioning him as if he'll pay more than a handful of games.
Neither Jones or Smalling can play the ball out too well from the back which is modern football. Or maybe not, Rio was incredible at doing it years ago. Either way they can't.
If anyone thinks they can be the basis for our defense week in week out next season I hope you weren't hoping for us to challenge for any competitions, because as they proved they aren't up to it against the best in the big games.

Coming back to my point, I'd like to see more of Lindelof. Made a couple of mistakes early on last year. But so did De Gea for his first season or two, didn't write him off.
Smalling and Jones have been doing that since we signed them and before.
In fact I remember when we signed Smalling from Fulham and he was labeled the next Rio and then I watched Fulham Villa and he got absolutely ripped apart by Gabby Agbonlahor and I realized it probably wasn't going to be.
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If they've shown that then why are they the starters in a team with a great defensive record?

Jones has come up short in some big matches, so we should change that.
 
Vagene said:
But surely they know the weaknesses?
Surely they know we once again are going into the season with 2x makeshift full backs that are 33 years old

Luke shaw - will never be trusted by Jose
Dalot - is unknown and unproven
TFM - see Luke shaw
Darmian - we want him gone but we’re holding out for a bigger fee it seems

Inconceivable that a club our size has major problems on either flank

We’ll start the season well but as soon as the first defeat arrives the meltdown will start and Jose’s head will be called for

Urgh..
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And on top our rather mediocre CB options. And I always wish we would buy some top class, young talents but I guess that’s wont happen under Jose
 
Ekeke said:
If they've shown that then why are they the starters in a team with a great defensive record?

Jones has come up short in some big matches, so we should change that.
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Our 'great defensive record' is a bit iffy. We just have the second coming of Christ in goal at the moment. There's been stats all over this forum on this topic.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.sp...eason-are-so-good-its-scary-20180312.amp.html

Read that. Without him I think we'd concede close to double the amount of goals.

I also read a statistic somewhere which in trying to find that takes into account clear chances against you (shots faced is a bit warped because anyone blasting a 50 yarder into row zz against you creates a shot against stat). We were mid table on that. And let's be honest, I've watched the likes of Bournemouth and Watford lay siege to us. Make us struggle to contain them. So don't tell me having a great defensive record is the same as having a great defense. At the moment it's a fluke. We are a shambles defensively a lot of the time. We don't want that we want to be in charge of games.
 
Mo is naturally defence minded of course but this is exacerbated by the fact that we don't actually have a great defence - we just have a great goalkeeper. The shots on target against stats from last year show how leaky we are - we'd have been 4th at best i would guess without his saves. I don't see this team being fully let off the leash until this is resolved. Jones and Smalling are obviously not the answer, we need an experienced top centre back (Alderwiereld) or the youngsters to come good. Less injuries would also be a big bonus next year.
 
Stubble said:
Mo is naturally defence minded of course but this is exacerbated by the fact that we don't actually have a great defence - we just have a great goalkeeper. The shots on target against stats from last year show how leaky we are - we'd have been 4th at best i would guess without his saves. I don't see this team being fully let off the leash until this is resolved. Jones and Smalling are obviously not the answer, we need an experienced top centre back (Alderwiereld) or the youngsters to come good. Less injuries would also be a big bonus next year.
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Real
Carvajal Ramos varane Marcelo

Barcelona
Semedo pique umtiti Alba

Atletico
Vrsalko godin giminez Luis

PSG
Meunière Marquinhos silva Kurzawa

City
Walker Kompany Otamendi Mendy

Juventus
Cancelo Chiellini Rugani Sandro

Manchester United
Valencia smalling Jones Young

Agreed.
Let's not try to debate this one anymore. Anyone who does is just lying for the sake of wanting to make an argument
 
Stubble said:
Mo is naturally defence minded of course but this is exacerbated by the fact that we don't actually have a great defence - we just have a great goalkeeper. The shots on target against stats from last year show how leaky we are - we'd have been 4th at best i would guess without his saves. I don't see this team being fully let off the leash until this is resolved. Jones and Smalling are obviously not the answer, we need an experienced top centre back (Alderwiereld) or the youngsters to come good. Less injuries would also be a big bonus next year.
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Teams find it hard to get through us so they shoot from a lot more tight angles or from distance. That's why those stars are so high.
I legit can't think of many games when the opposition played through us that would validate stats like that.
It just didn't happen.
 
Jezpeza said:
Our 'great defensive record' is a bit iffy. We just have the second coming of Christ in goal at the moment. There's been stats all over this forum on this topic.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.sp...eason-are-so-good-its-scary-20180312.amp.html

Read that. Without him I think we'd concede close to double the amount of goals.

I also read a statistic somewhere which in trying to find that takes into account clear chances against you (shots faced is a bit warped because anyone blasting a 50 yarder into row zz against you creates a shot against stat). We were mid table on that. And let's be honest, I've watched the likes of Bournemouth and Watford lay siege to us. Make us struggle to contain them. So don't tell me having a great defensive record is the same as having a great defense. At the moment it's a fluke. We are a shambles defensively a lot of the time. We don't want that we want to be in charge of games.
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So did Spain.

De Gea is great and has saved us a lot. So has Chris Smalling, hes not quite so great but hes one of the best defenders in the league.

Its not a fluke. Its 2 really good defensive players playing around a midfield that doesnt give much cover, fullbacks out of position and Jones going from good to bad depending on the week. Sometimes De Gea and Smalling can hold the rest of it together, sometimes they cant
 
Don't understand the strategy? Its because there isn't one.

It's a vague sniffing around big names hoping one becomes available mixed with a vaguely scattergun approach elsewhere.

How do you explain bailly then lindelof and now still after another centre back? Bizarre.
 
Sandikan said:
Don't understand the strategy? Its because there isn't one.

It's a vague sniffing around big names hoping one becomes available mixed with a vaguely scattergun approach elsewhere.

How do you explain bailly then lindelof and now still after another centre back? Bizarre.
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Well what do you think went wrong their? Are the defenders not good enough? If it’s the scouting network that is failing to give to manager what he requires I agree but I don’t see anything wrong with purchasing promising defenders to add to our experiences injury prone ones.
 
Given the lack of signings in priority positions (Right Wing, Right Back and Centre Back), I wonder if a change of formation is needed to maximise what we have.

While I like the 433, switching to 352 suits out squad better
- Removes the need for a Right Winger, our most pressing need in a 433
- Addresses our lack of an established Centre Back pairing. A back 3 papers over the weaknesses of individuals, while we have an abundance of centre backs
- allows us to play with a front 2, something many of us miss from the 90s

in terms of priorities, it leaves us with a pressing need to sign just one essential player, rather than 3 (a wing back)

Potential line up could be:

De Gea

New RWB, Lideloff, Bailley, TFM, Young

Fred, Matic, Pogba

Lukkaku, Sanchez

Edit - big discussion on who our best 3 would be in defence. I'm not a fan of Smalling due to his limited ball playing skills, but in a 3 this would matter less and he could potential provide a covering role in the most central position, allowing more technical players like TFM and Lideloff to go forward.
 
Sassy Colin said:
The rumours have gone from nothing to the usual any player they can think of/pull out of their arse.
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Yeah, we are either working very discreetly or nothing at all is happening. The press clearly don't have a clue. Now Kroos and Thiago are back again.

Maybe this will be the year of Sneijder!
 
Ekeke said:
So did Spain.

De Gea is great and has saved us a lot. So has Chris Smalling, hes not quite so great but hes one of the best defenders in the league.

Its not a fluke. Its 2 really good defensive players playing around a midfield that doesnt give much cover, fullbacks out of position and Jones going from good to bad depending on the week. Sometimes De Gea and Smalling can hold the rest of it together, sometimes they cant
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I do rate Smalling above Jones and Rojo. Much more athletic and not injury prone. I however see Smalling as a squad player. Player to play when rotating and resting or because of injury and suspension.
Do remember in the days of
Rio and Vidic we had Brown and Oshea and Evans as backup. They were a notch below our starters.
And our wing backs at current are awful. I will support whoever we put out on the pitch come season start but the pragmatist within me says that our defence needs better players.
Hopefully Dalot and Shaw come good as we don't seem to be signing any wing backs, if not could be another difficult season for us
 
What I don't get is if we're struggling for our main targets why aren't we even looking at bringing in some of the best young talent out there? I'm not talking about Mbappe or levels like that but Matic is over 30, why aren't we looking to bring in the best young DM out there, even if they're 17/18 it could easily pay off. I'm sure there's shitloads of young talent we could get for non extortionate prices similar to how we got Dalot.
 
Sandikan said:
Don't understand the strategy? Its because there isn't one.

It's a vague sniffing around big names hoping one becomes available mixed with a vaguely scattergun approach elsewhere.

How do you explain bailly then lindelof and now still after another centre back? Bizarre.
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If I signing doesn't work out you call it a scattergun......Bailly has at times looked a quality defender but has suffered with
injuries. Nothing Jose could predict about that.
 
I can't remember if I've said this already but we don't seem to have a strategy. Forte better or worse, I honestly feel this will be Jose's last season at the club
 
Solius said:
What I don't get is if we're struggling for our main targets why aren't we even looking at bringing in some of the best young talent out there? I'm not talking about Mbappe or levels like that but Matic is over 30, why aren't we looking to bring in the best young DM out there, even if they're 17/18 it could easily pay off. I'm sure there's shitloads of young talent we could get for non extortionate prices similar to how we got Dalot.
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Couple of reasons:
1. Mourinho wants immediate results i.e. using funds and time on younger players does not fit with his narrative.
2. Mourinho does not have a systematic approach to the attacking part of the game. He does not give many instructions on how to play when the team is on the ball or in attack. Meaning that he lets the players themselves decide how to move, pass and attack. Having younger and inexperienced players does not suite this approach to football, compared to older more experienced players that usually knows what to do and in less need of instructions from the manager.
3. Based on his managerial carreer it can be argued that he is either not good at or interested in developing players, especially the younger ones. Is this because of his need for having experienced players(2.), or because he wants to win at once(1.) or simply because he is not good at it? Who knows. Lingaard is the only player that have clearly improved(performed over expectation) under Mourinhos time at our club, while many have arguably regressed in abilities/performance.
 
So Pogba wants to join Juventus, Martial wants to leave, players like Bonucci, Bale and others don't want to come here.
A number of players in our squad are not happy here too.

Isn't this a very bad situation and there must be something wrong
 
Mane, Douglas Costa, James Rodriguez, Salah, Malcom...

Any more top notch right wingers moving for decent money that we can ignore?
 
Jezpeza said:
I do rate Smalling above Jones and Rojo. Much more athletic and not injury prone. I however see Smalling as a squad player. Player to play when rotating and resting or because of injury and suspension.
Do remember in the days of
Rio and Vidic we had Brown and Oshea and Evans as backup. They were a notch below our starters.
And our wing backs at current are awful. I will support whoever we put out on the pitch come season start but the pragmatist within me says that our defence needs better players.
Hopefully Dalot and Shaw come good as we don't seem to be signing any wing backs, if not could be another difficult season for us
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Of course I remember the days of Rio and Vidic. But there isnt a CB in the league as good as them. So expecting ours to be as good as them is asking too much
 
If we pull away from the immediate, is there a chance the board are being strategic? Say we have a pot of X each season. City at present look like they could very well get over 90 points again next year. But, after that a few of their key players are really getting on a bit, and few teams ever manage 3 in a row (except us of course). Liverpool have just likely spent every dime and will struggle to do any further business next year. Further - and probably most importantly - there just aren't clear, obtainable targets for us in the positions we need.

So wouldn't it make more sense to 'save' this year, and then next year - when potentially City are a bit weaker - using twice as much funds to really make a push? Plus it gives another season for obvious full back targets to emerge, let's Maguire keep improving etc.

I view the alternative as massively overspending on the latest 'hot' thing just for spending's sake, and not actually improving first XI. As frustrating as it is for the Muppet in all of us, I think if I was making the decision it wouldn't be a terrible one.
 
Beachryan said:
If we pull away from the immediate, is there a chance the board are being strategic? Say we have a pot of X each season. City at present look like they could very well get over 90 points again next year. But, after that a few of their key players are really getting on a bit, and few teams ever manage 3 in a row (except us of course). Liverpool have just likely spent every dime and will struggle to do any further business next year. Further - and probably most importantly - there just aren't clear, obtainable targets for us in the positions we need.

So wouldn't it make more sense to 'save' this year, and then next year - when potentially City are a bit weaker - using twice as much funds to really make a push? Plus it gives another season for obvious full back targets to emerge, let's Maguire keep improving etc.

I view the alternative as massively overspending on the latest 'hot' thing just for spending's sake, and not actually improving first XI. As frustrating as it is for the Muppet in all of us, I think if I was making the decision it wouldn't be a terrible one.
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Maybe the fans will be strategic then and not show up for games and buy merchandise. If the board aren't investing in the team why should the fans use their hard earned money? Money they actually earned as opposed to the Glazers.
 
Something about the whole situation around Utd just doesn't smell right to me. Nothing I can put my finger on, just a feeling.

Probably completely off the mark and don't quote me on this, but I have a feeling something either very good or very bad is in the offing.
 
Rednotdead said:
Something about the whole situation around Utd just doesn't smell right to me. Nothing I can put my finger on, just a feeling.

Probably completely off the mark and don't quote me on this, but I have a feeling something either very good or very bad is in the offing.
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Don't think it's that crazy.

We have a manager sulking and miserable, complaining about needing new players. Woodward suddenly staying quiet, star players unhappy and Ribalta all leaving at once. Something doesn't add up.
 
christinaa said:
So Pogba wants to join Juventus, Martial wants to leave, players like Bonucci, Bale and others don't want to come here.
A number of players in our squad are not happy here too.

Isn't this a very bad situation and there must be something wrong
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It's not great. Feels like we're entering the final chapter of Mourinho's tenure here.

Perhaps the board's reticence in sanctioning the kind of spending Mourinho wants/the squad needs is an indication that they don't expect him to be around much longer, either. Save some money for the next guy.
 
ThaReaper01 said:
Spitballing here but Tottenham want Martial, United apparently want a LB and a winger. So, Martial plus, say, 20m for Rose and Lucas?
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What a truly horrific idea. Rose who couldn’t get ahead of Young for England and Lucas who is simply a bit rubbish.

Going by nearly every report we don’t want a LB anymore anyway.
 
Ekeke said:
Of course I remember the days of Rio and Vidic. But there isnt a CB in the league as good as them. So expecting ours to be as good as them is asking too much
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Perhaps but there are centre backs out there a clear notch above those 3 who we should be signing and starting. Why aren't we in for Rugani? 45m and possibly going to Chelsea? Our back 4 just doesn't come close to any other top team in Europe atm
 
christinaa said:
So Pogba wants to join Juventus, Martial wants to leave, players like Bonucci, Bale and others don't want to come here.
A number of players in our squad are not happy here too.

Isn't this a very bad situation and there must be something wrong
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Your tag line suits you.
 
Jezpeza said:
Perhaps but there are centre backs out there a clear notch above those 3 who we should be signing and starting. Why aren't we in for Rugani? 45m and possibly going to Chelsea? Our back 4 just doesn't come close to any other top team in Europe atm
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Because hes not a better defender than Smalling? And we've already spent what was significant cash for CBs at the time for Bailly and Lindelof. We have projects to establish a spot next to Smalling already
 
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