Wimbledon 2012

Mockney said:
Says you.

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Now obviously, that's just trends for the US. But it goes someway to discrediting your blind assertion.
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Ew, that table just brought back a horrible memory.

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Anyone watching this doubles final, Marrey (GBR) and Nielsen so close to winning then, final set now
 
Wow. Didn't realize that a British man hadn't won the men doubles for 70 odd years until today. Always knew about the singles. Didn't realize it extended to the doubles too.

We really suck at this tennis lark don't we?
 
Mockney said:
It's not black and white. It shouldn't be based on the quality of the tennis, and thus the interest, at any given moment. But obviously interest plays a part. I've never tried to claim it's one thing or the other. The difference between interest in the men & women's games, and the intetrest in single & doubles games is huge, and thus not really relevant to this argument. A bit like the women's football/women's tennis one.
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You don't see the women in basket league and football league getting the same paychecks as men do you?

The quality is shite, they play less(not that I want to see them play more), they draw much much less revenues than men and for one is a bit sexist to get the same paychecks, not the other way around.

No. My initial argument was that it shouldn't be based on any current level of quality, because that would require a constant changing of prize money, which would be ludicrous. I then responded to your remarks about earning and people largely going to watch the mens with some evidence that that isn't always the case. I haven't once claimed the womens game is always as or more popular either, or that I'm only arguing based on one rigid principle, despite your rather tiresome attempts to pigeon hole my points and then claim they're rubbish because I also think something else. I've been arguing a variety of different things to a variety of different points. At one stage we were arguing about the equatability of footballers wages to tennis sponsorship.

I'm going out now. And am invariably going to be having this argument with myself on the train. Which is annoying.
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It wouldn't require a constant changing of prize money, cause the level on the WTA is not same as the ATP, nor ever was. As you said people get tickets to watch the men games(unfortunately they are daily) - they tolerate the women's.

You see empty courts whenever women play and then magically after half an hour the court is full waiting for men to start playing.
 
More nervous for this final than I can remember myself being for a long time regarding tennis.
 
Pexbo said:
God I hate the Williams sisters.

Even the BBC commentator sounds like he couldn't give a feck about her just winning.


:lol: Everyone awkwardly giving her a brief hug like "really? you want to hug me?" and her awkwardly hugging them back when all she wants to do is get to her mum :lol:
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Great player but other than that, shes a bit of a cnut.
 
I love the Williams sisters(Venus more than Serena - Serena comes across as slightly arrogant/clueless at times - plus her physique scare me :lol::lol:).

But overall they are more likable than 80% of the tour. Much better as individuals than Martina fecking Hingis or someone like Justine Henin, and have been great for tennis.


Venus and Serena breaking down barriers...dominating womens tennis, and pissing off the racists while they did it :lol:
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...dy-Murray-will-we-ever-learn-to-love-him.html

When Andy Murray plays in the Wimbledon men’s final today, it will be his best chance to win over those who have struggled to support him, says his biographer

The Women’s Institute is a broad church. They will tolerate lectures on all the enemies of mankind, from Stalin to Japanese knotweed. But if there is a subject guaranteed to provoke the mass sucking of teeth and grumbles of dissent, it is that of the anti-hero, Andy Murray. Never mind that the tennis player has just become the first British man to reach the final of Wimbledon since 1938 – that pales into insignificance beside the fact that, unshaven, his fluffy ginger wisps look unkempt.

He also stands accused of other misdemeanours, including being “anti-English”, “boorish”, “hypochondrial” and “rude”. To which we can now add hitting that nice Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in a rather painful region when he had the whole court to aim at during Friday evening’s semi-final.

It is a curious fact that, for all those bouncing on Henman Hill in celebration of his historic breakthrough, to many more Murray remains an irredeemable pantomime villain. The ironic shouts of “Come on, Tim!” still ring out in memory of Tim Henman, all short-back-and-sides but with no chance of actually winning.

It has been like this ever since 2006, when Murray was thin, immature and stitched up. At the age of 19, he was embroiled in an innocent pre-Wimbledon interview alongside Henman that included a mention of England’s football team having qualified for the World Cup. Murray, being Scottish, was teased that his team weren’t there at all. With tape-recorders rolling, he made the mistake of retaliating by cracking a modest joke. Asked which team he was supporting, he said: “Anyone who England are playing.” It wasn’t a side-splitter. But it was the best that a shy teenager, who thought his purpose at Wimbledon that year was tennis, not stand-up, could manage.

From that moment, he was perceived as the embodiment of a chippy Scotsman, grouching and grumbling his way through the tournament when he was not clutching some body part in agony. For his part, aghast at the injustice of it all, young Murray retired into stern non-revelation. And stayed there. It is interesting that every coach is immediately switched to mute when working with him, including the current incarnation, Ivan Lendl, who was pretty fond of his own voice when winning Grand Slam in the Eighties. It has been positively astonishing to hear the voice of Miles Maclagan, Murray’s previous coach, on BBC broadcasts this week, after he had maintained such strict radio silence for all the years of his employment.

Ironically, Henman was Murray’s role model in that department. They were good friends, and Henman taught him the art of saying nothing in a string of polite and apparently cooperative sentences, just as Alan Shearer guided Michael Owen into utter blandness before having the audacity to go into “the media” himself. That might be a shock to some. If you think Murray is boring, blame Tim.

But that’s not a true reflection of his character. As the writer of his autobiography in 2008, I can attest to a young man who was punctual, respectful and even bravely obeyed some elder’s command to kiss older women on the cheek on their arrival. Bless him.

He was bored to death by the necessity of talking about himself and had not a single rock’n’roll anecdote in the manner of Boris Becker, but he was authentic, kind to animals and loved his mother. In fact, his mum, Judy, told the story in the book of the Christmas card he had once sent her in his teens that listed all the reasons he appreciated her. She cried. “What are you doing that for, you stupid woman?” he asked, affectionately. You’d have thought the Henman fans, many of them maternal souls, would have swooned at his feet, rather than reach for the garlic.

His manners had been instilled by his lovely Presbyterian-born grandfather, Roy Erskine, a former Hibernian footballer in the pre‑tattoo and spit era. Andy and his elder brother Jamie were taught to take their hats off indoors and show respect to Grandma Shirley, whose shortbread and Christmas lunches remain a family legend.

Murray isn’t rude, he is preoccupied. He wants to win, with an unsettling fervour he has yet to control, in a Grand Slam final. And yet, internet messageboards have continued to register disapproval as well as staggering wonder that we have a finalist at last. The views are polar opposites – “hope he falls at the first fence, can’t stand the man”, alongside “I just love Andy and wish him every success”.

For the record, Andy Murray is not anti-English. His girlfriend, Kim Sears, is English. His beloved grandma, despite the expertise in Scottish shortbread, is half-English. His main home is in Surrey, and were Bunny Austin – the last Briton to reach the men’s Wimbledon singles final – still alive, he would undoubtedly have approved of his successor’s spirit.

Austin was a gentleman in the literal sense. Brought up in an authoritarian era, when his French master at Repton School used to shut him in the grandfather clock at the back of the classroom for not conjugating his French verbs with sufficient thoroughness, Austin was rarely harsh or judgmental himself. He died in 2000 at the age of 94, wishing he had seen a fellow countryman emulate his feat. It has taken 74 years for that to happen.

If Murray makes no effort to win over his critics, it is probably because he knows he can’t please everyone and he is rich enough not to care. There are huge swaths of the population who think he really did go out and buy a Paraguay shirt in 2006, a line entirely fabricated by the tabloid newspaper that printed it.

But if he does ever lay the anti-English jibe to rest, the accusations of hypochondria continue to dog him. It’s been that way ever since 2005 when, at the age of 18 and half the size he is now, he suffered from cramp when playing five sets against the big beast, David Nalbandian, who drew blood from a line judge at Queen’s this year.

If Virginia Wade could call him a “drama queen” for having treatment on his back mid-match this year at the French Open, then clearly non-aficionados of the sport are likely to see it the same way. He is certainly cautious, but that’s hardly surprising if your livelihood depends on your body. He remembers with clarity the long wait for diagnosis of his bipartite patella (a knee condition that he manages to this day), and being told at 14 that he might not play again. He sat and cried, which seems reasonable. Ideally, he won’t play through pain if there is a risk of long-term injury.

But perhaps his detractors are most offended by his impersonation of P  G Wodehouse’s famous Scotsman with a grievance who is easily distinguished from a ray of sunshine. Until Lendl’s cool counsel prevailed, Murray often gave full vent to his frustrations, be they four-letter effusions or pure bloody-minded misery. His body language was an esperanto of gloom.

Then again, they don’t like fist-clenching roars of unbridled competitiveness either, a trait Murray inherits from his mother, who played for a while on the women’s senior tour. Visible self‑motivation seems vulgar to some in the hallowed precincts of the Centre Court, never mind that Jimmy Connors (cold‑shouldered at first) and John McEnroe (ditto) could be flat-out anti-social loudmouths but eventually forgiven and adored for their charisma. Anyway, they were American.

Without being too over-analytical, it is even possible that some visceral dislike descends from all this chat about Scottish independence. There is a pronounced view in some English quarters that the Scots can take their devolved parliament, free prescriptions and whatever’s left of the oil fields, and get on with it. As the figurehead of Scottishness in some eyes, Murray is copping the flak for Alex Salmond.

Prejudice is hard to shift. It is undoubtedly the case that were Murray to lift the load of a century from British tennis and defeat the near-deity that is six-times Wimbledon champion Roger Federer, he still wouldn’t win over all his detractors.

They should look on the bright side. He doesn’t fraternise with celebrity for the sake of it, his grandfather would have a fit if he even thought of having a tattoo, he doesn’t fall out of nightclubs, he has been with his girlfriend (with one break) for seven years, he hardly drinks, works out like a fanatic, and has a well-developed, if dry, sense of humour.

If we had a footballer like that, we’d propose him to the Vatican
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Just read this. Lots of things which are true
 
Roger will hopefully take care of business later

#TeamFed
 
Wow, this thread went off-topic! For what it's worth, I'm a big believer in women getting the same prize money as men, but I think it should be on the proviso that they play five sets. They're well able for it stamina-wise nowadays, and would probably jump at the chance to prove that they're as athletic. I honestly can't understand why it's not introduced. One of the worst things about women's tennis, in my opinion, is that as soon as someone builds up a head of steam then they win. The matches are so short there's never really a chance for the other person to come back into it.
 
Count Orduck said:
and would probably jump at the chance to prove that they're as athletic
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Earning the same the women do now for doing more work? I don't think they would jump at the chance to be honest. They should be though.

The matches are so short there's never really a chance for the other person to come back into it.
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There are quite a few slow starters in the women tennis. Radwanska in yesterday's game for example. No wonder, because those girls are so young and reaching finals is nerve-wracking. The first set is about finding their feet and rhythm, so a fifth setter would give them a better chance to come back into it.
 
Unam333 said:
There are quite a few slow starters in the women tennis. Radwanska in yesterday's game for example. No wonder, because those girls are so young and reaching finals is nerve-wracking. The first set is about finding their feet and rhythm, so a fifth setter would give them a better chance to come back into it.
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I read a stat that Serena Williams has won 190 of 194 grand slam matches where she has won the first set. Says it all about 3 set matches tbh.
 
Count Orduck said:
Wow, this thread went off-topic! For what it's worth, I'm a big believer in women getting the same prize money as men, but I think it should be on the proviso that they play five sets. They're well able for it stamina-wise nowadays, and would probably jump at the chance to prove that they're as athletic. I honestly can't understand why it's not introduced. One of the worst things about women's tennis, in my opinion, is that as soon as someone builds up a head of steam then they win. The matches are so short there's never really a chance for the other person to come back into it.
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I'm no tennis guru but isn't the issue that rallies in the women's game average a lot longer than in the men's game, meaning that a five-set match would rarely be over within a few hours?
 
Count Orduck said:
Wow, this thread went off-topic! For what it's worth, I'm a big believer in women getting the same prize money as men, but I think it should be on the proviso that they play five sets. They're well able for it stamina-wise nowadays, and would probably jump at the chance to prove that they're as athletic. I honestly can't understand why it's not introduced. One of the worst things about women's tennis, in my opinion, is that as soon as someone builds up a head of steam then they win. The matches are so short there's never really a chance for the other person to come back into it.
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I'd be very interested on MG's views on this. She's all for ridding gender stereotypes, one of which is that men are fitter, stronger, and on the whole, physically better than women. Ridding the gender stereotypes would mean that actually, we're as strong as each other, and therefore should be playing five sets. I imagine she'd probably end up arguing with Raoul, who, in a way, would be defending her :lol:
 
Even Vijay Amritraj thinks Murray will win. The positivity over Murray's chances is worrisome.

Come on Roger!!
 
Sue Barker - "The First Minister of Scotland Sir Alex Ferguson has been spotted here"

'The feck?
 
Why can't they just close the roof from now since there is forecast for rain?
 
For all his Britishness and the following in the footsteps of Fred Perry rubbish that's being peddled everywhere, I really hope Murray loses for some reason.
 
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