If they go down they will have to sell fast. If they just survive the best players will probably not want another season fighting relegation if bigger clubs are interested. I’d imagine a lot of these players at midtable clubs also have lowish relegation clauses agreed. Anything over 30 million is profit on Onana. Branthwaite cost them very little. It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out
Willy Kambwala | 2023/24 Performances
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If they go down they will have to sell fast. If they just survive the best players will probably not want another season fighting relegation if bigger clubs are interested. I’d imagine a lot of these players at midtable clubs also have lowish relegation clauses agreed. Anything over 30 million is profit on Onana. Branthwaite cost them very little. It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out
I said something similar in another thread. Going forward we'd better off having Martinez play as a LB or DM in that hybrid anchor role while buying better athletic profiles for CB. We've compensated in defense for far too long, and I love Licha but there's no denying he's not going to be great having to defend loads of space high and wide as a main CB.
I think we have to move on from Shaw, his injury track record is horrendous and that is overriding his obvious value in the team
I'd sell Lindelof before Maguire, Varane is too injury prone, we need some experience which costs, the reality is that sorting out the midfield, LB and another CF are more important priorities that changing our CB's and we don't have the money to do all of it
I agree. I think Amass will be our left back next season, But I would love to keep Luke As back up to Amass and Martinez. At his best Luke is world class
Yes, but like you said, since then he's not really progressed due to injuries. Not his fault but don't think he's really in the same bracket as a Garnacho or Mainoo anymore.
Listen we have a good relationship with Everton, and the fact that James Garner is there is crazy in itself but should a deal for £75-85m be done for both that’s amazing business but let’s be honest it’s never going to happen !
Disagree. He will be with a year of regular football. Look how Mengi has improved since he had been playing regularly at Luton. Centre halves dont attract the same amout of coverage as forwards or midfielders. Will be a mainstay at United for a long time
We won't necessarily be looking to replace him. We should be looking to buy two new centre backs who fit the mould of what we are hoping to achieve. Alongside those two new options would be Martinez, Shaw and Kambwala. Maguire's game isn't conducive to how we should be looking to play. He can be front foot and aggressive at times, but he isn't quick enough to be trusted 1v1 and cannot cover large spaces. This will be a requirement should our play style develop to where it needs to be.
I mean our CB's should be a top priority. We need 2 minimum that are both top prospects/players, we have 0 athleticism through the spine of the entire team. For as fed up as I am and ready to be rid of Ten Hag, it's quite evident tactics be damned that we can't compete with any decent side in duels and controlling space off the ball because of how slow/weak many of our players are. The only one of the 3 mentioned that I'd look to bring back is Varane and that's on a cut rate deal (doubt it happens). I'd sell the other two (assume we could get 20-30m for the pair which could get close to funding Todibo).
Assume next year we could go into the season with something like
Martinez/Branthwaite Todibo/Tosin
Kambwala as cover. That gives you Martinez and 4 CB's with top athleticism and good technicality where you don't have to worry about chopping and changing tactics. Assume the cost would be 110m or so with Tosin being on a free and the entire room would be remade. Gives you another 100m or so (conservatively) to get a DM (Onana), snag Barkley on a free, and a forward. Assuming even more sales you'd get an LB too. And now you can go toe to toe with a lot more teams in space.
Would be very excited to see Martinez in DM role indeed, I think he is made for that position and definitely can be a good upgrade of Casemiro.
Need to see much more of him to evaluate his quality but for a 19 year old he did very well ve Liverpool and more importantly his profile is exactly what’s we need more of at CB - quick, strong and capable on the ball. It’ll allow us to play compact with the defence pushing up and compressing the space. That is, if ETH or his eventual replacement want us to play that way.
Is he capable to push to midfield to be a connection during the offensive transition and also hold second line to recover the ball? If he is, we have a gem.
Absolutely not. CB and DM are by far the two most imporant positions that need addressing. After them, RW, and then ST/LB.
What exactly are the qualities that excites you to see Martinez in DM position it has disaster written all over it .
And I disagree, we have CB's, maybe not what we want exactly but we have them, we don't have a LB because Shaw is never fit for long enough and our other option is MIA, we have a single 21 year old striker, those 2 positions should be sorted out before we get to CB's along with the DM
Well for once, his ability to fight for the ball at the heart of where most of the fights are. He knows when to get stuck in the fight and when to retreat for positional defence. Our 2 CBs would feel safer with him standing in front of them, something that Casemiro has failed to do this season. Thirdly, unlike Maigure, he is more comfortable with keeping the ball and not great but descent passing skills. We don't need another Bruno in that role who keep making long Hollywood passes that often put ball possession at risk do we? For the most part he needs to win the ball and pass it to either Mainoo or Mount in the center or pass it to the wing double to make transition to the third. Winning the ball is 80% of what we need in the DM role and be comfortable with it to pass it onto the advancing midfield is the remaining 20%.
If you say that is not good enough for you and you can still see a disaster coming, I don't know how else to explain.
We can't play the way ETH or any other possession-based coach will want to, with our current crop of central defenders and DMs. If we get suitable players in for these positions, performances can massively improve instantly. The same can't be said for a new left back and competition for Hojlund.
Surely it’s too early to say. Think he first needs to prove he’s good enough for this level in general then we’ll see what roles he can fill.
Reads the game extremely well, fantastic stepping in aggressively and defends on the front foot, brilliant progressive passer with very good technical ability on the ball. Playing DM would mask his biggest issues as a footballer (aerial prowess and defending wide spaces) while still allowing him to play a similar game to what he does now. And it doesn't mean he has to be locked in first choice, but it increases our squad/tactical flexibility immensely if he's able to provide cover as a good option at 3 different positions.
Exactly.
This is a century-old idea, there is no new innovation here. When you have a dynamic CB that is comfortable with the ball and pass it well, you can play him in a DM/3rd-CB set up, especially agaisnt strong opponents with 2 powerful AMs (City, Real). It would not work for an orthodox CB like Vidic.
Martinez has played CDM before at Ajax.
I have wanted to see Martinez as CDM aswell.
He can play as the shadow/hybrid CB-CDM.
I'd love to see something like this
Can work extremely well in a diamond or take someone one of Mount or Bruno off to play a 4231 or 433.I have wanted to see Martinez as CDM aswell.
He can play as the shadow/hybrid CB-CDM.
I'd love to see something like this
Dalot- Kambwala - Branthwaite-New LB
Martinez
Mainoo - Bruno
Sancho/Mount
Amad/Gwood - Garnacho&Rashford
Play a False CB & a False 9 in a false midfield diamond with Inverted forwards like Garnacho, Rashford, Gwood, Antony & Amad trying to utilise the False 9's passes.
We turn in to a back 3 if Martinez goes deep and let the attacking fullbacks go up the pitch.
Hojlund as our plan B.
Martinez
Mainoo - Bruno
Sancho/Mount
Amad/Gwood - Garnacho&Rashford
Play a False CB & a False 9 in a false midfield diamond with Inverted forwards like Garnacho, Rashford, Gwood, Antony & Amad trying to utilise the False 9's passes.
We turn in to a back 3 if Martinez goes deep and let the attacking fullbacks go up the pitch.
Hojlund as our plan B.
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He's played 1 full game and he's either going to be sent on loan or converted into a defensive midfielder.
Give the lad a chance ffs, he looks like a decent player, he's good on the ball, quick, strong, reads the game quite well, for a 19 year old CB, he's got a lot of good qualities. If he were playing for Everton and played like he did against Liverpool there'd be a thread on here about signing him in no time.
Hopefully he can be a useful player going forward. I see very little point loaning him out or moving him into midfield, get him regular minutes and let's see if he can develop into a starting quality player.
Give the lad a chance ffs, he looks like a decent player, he's good on the ball, quick, strong, reads the game quite well, for a 19 year old CB, he's got a lot of good qualities. If he were playing for Everton and played like he did against Liverpool there'd be a thread on here about signing him in no time.
Hopefully he can be a useful player going forward. I see very little point loaning him out or moving him into midfield, get him regular minutes and let's see if he can develop into a starting quality player.
Ten Hag originally played him in that position at Ajax, but then moved him into the defence and said it was because Martinez doesn't have the running capacity to play in midfield. And that was in the Dutch league, so it's unlikely that ETH sees him as an option there in the PL.
Is it because he can't run fast enough or because he doesn't have stamina to run around too long? Sorry about the question, I've never heard this comment before.
I'm not certain. Possibly both? Maybe it's more obvious in Dutch (I presume that's what he was speaking and the reports are translating it into English), but all the reports I'm reading just say 'running capacity'.
The main comments were actually about Daley Blind, but then ETH added Martinez as well. He made these comments back in 2021:
"Daley Blind does not have the running capacity to play in midfield. And neither does Martinez,"
With those 4, rather we get a replacement RB to compete with Dalot and sell AWB. Martinez can shift to LB when Shaw is out and Branthwaite comes in at LCB. I don't think we can carry AWB anymore if we want to really improve team and he doesn't provide the same technical and passing ability as Dalot when he comes in at RB. He's not the best crosser either, so we can definitely improve in that area.
I think ETH mentioned his lack athleticism as the reason behind his move from midfield to defense at Ajax. I think, though, if he can make it as a DM in this league then we should do it because we do need way too many players in one window. It would be a bonus because it does seem we are set to buy to CBs.
What the flying feck are you on about?
I hope we don't get Brathwaite. He had a reasonable season at PSV but was not outstanding. I have not seen enough of Everton this season to see how he was. But we will have to pay over the top ffor him. There are good CF's in Europe that would not cost the earth
And here was me thinking he was actually one of our more athletic players!
I think especially in the Prem you need to have elite athleticism in your back 4 if you want to play high up the pitch. And I'm just suggesting him as an option there, not saying he should be our stalwart first choice 6. Martinez is very versatile though and we'd be better suited using that versatility to our advantage within our squad composition
I'm not approaching next season with the idea that Ten Hag is still the manager though.
And that comment is ironic considering there isn't a midfielder in the world that has the running capacity to play in our current setup. Maybe Prime Kante.
Glad you said. Of all the 'can he play as..' suggestions we've heard of on the caf, Martinez is one of the strongest and actually realistic choice to play as a DM. However, as you've alluded it would be in a team that actually wants to midfield i.e not this current suicidal nonsense.
He still wouldn't be ideal in the long term because there will always been counters and large spaces to defend but he's more than fine as a stop-gap or in a hybrid role because his qualities are too good to ignore.
I generally don't like to see top footballers shoehorned into a different position to fill a team's needs. One a one-off, sure, but not as a going forward plan. Martinez is a CB, full stop.
But back to Willy, what a tremendous talent the boy is. Whoever is responsible for the care of our young players better be equipped for the job as we've seen several of our outrageously talented young players over the years gone headsgone in one way or another -- Martial, Greenwood, Sancho and in all honesty, Rashford as well. The issue with Antony isn't so much that he went headsgone but that he was never that great of a talent to begin with.
But back to Willy, what a tremendous talent the boy is. Whoever is responsible for the care of our young players better be equipped for the job as we've seen several of our outrageously talented young players over the years gone headsgone in one way or another -- Martial, Greenwood, Sancho and in all honesty, Rashford as well. The issue with Antony isn't so much that he went headsgone but that he was never that great of a talent to begin with.
Bless you mate but this nonsense made me irrationally angry
Well he’s up now anyway. With Varane’s injury confirmed along with Evans, he will likely see out the season (if he manages to stay fit himself!). That run could include an FA Cup Final.
We should absolutely play this kid
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