Will you watch the first womens Manchester derby at Old Trafford tomorrow? (Man United vs Man City - Sun 19 Nov at 4:30pm)

[Rood]

I didnt make anything up and didnt say anything was free either, so you're reacting with hostility to things youve imagined. While all womens sport is growing, there isnt the same public clamour and huge attempts to promote other female sports to this degree. By your defintion, propaganda isnt forced on anyone either, as surely they can just ignore it? Simple, as you claim.

But no, by my opinion, they are two separate sports and arent treated as such, with the womens game infiltrating pretty much every outlet of coverage. Like you Im sure, I know hundreds of football fans and spend probably too much time watching matches with friends or at the pub, and the demand just is not there for womens football. There is a lie being perpetuated that both sports should be treated the same way, but to do so means never saying out loud that one of them is, currently, absolutely woeful.

Anyway, dont let me take from it, I'll be happy to see the game grow, but at present would rather not see so much of its presence when watching or engaging with, what to my mind, is a different sport.

Not sure where you are getting the hostility, just educating you on your incorrect suggestion of 'tickets all but given away and largely occupied by kids.'

As I said, the majority of tickets are bought by adults, but yes higher % of kids than you would find at a Men's match as it's more affordable and accessible which is obviously a good thing.
At the same time, the prices have actually more than doubled from last season so demand is undoubtedly growing rapidly - 30k was the record attendance for MU Women v Villa last season @ £6/3. New record of 45k yesterday is at £15/7.50 - Arsenal were charging even more than that at the Emirates too, yes it's cheaper but hardly 'given away'.

Football is obviously by far the biggest sport in the country so it's pretty obvious there is going to be more coverage. But I've noticed that things like Women's Rugby and Cricket are also being televised for the first time in recent years. I have zero interest in either sport whether men or women, so I just ignore it rather than moaning about it.

Whether you like it or not, the coverage is just going to continue to grow so best get used to it!

 

[SER19]

Not sure where you are getting the hostility, just educating you on your incorrect suggestion of 'tickets all but given away and largely occupied by kids.'

As I said, the majority of tickets are bought by adults, but yes higher % of kids than you would find at a Men's match as it's more affordable and accessible which is obviously a good thing.
At the same time, the prices have actually more than doubled from last season so demand is undoubtedly growing rapidly - 30k was the record attendance for MU Women v Villa last season @ £6/3. New record of 45k yesterday is at £15/7.50 - Arsenal were charging even more than that at the Emirates too, yes it's cheaper but hardly 'given away'.

Football is obviously by far the biggest sport in the country so it's pretty obvious there is going to be more coverage. But I've noticed that things like Women's Rugby and Cricket are also being televised for the first time in recent years. I have zero interest in either sport whether men or women, so I just ignore it rather than moaning about it.

Whether you like it or not, the coverage is just going to continue to grow so best get used to it!

Oh I'll have to get used to it, because like I said it will continue to be forced on supporters of the mens game, which is a different sport. Im not going around in circles on this, but once again re tickets, read my initial post which you first claimed I said were 'free'. Which I corrected you on. Now you're literally giving numbers to prove my point - 7.50 in the modern day is as cheap as a cinema ticket, if not cheaper. To get into old trafford. It is all but giving it away - which is what I said in my first post. Youre just arguing my point, not 'educating' anything. Im also not arguing that there shouldnt be more coverage of football, which as you say is bigger. Im saying comparatively to other sports, there isnt the same infiltration of mens rugby by womens, or other teams sports where the standard is so poor.

Overall, we're seeing a game played to such a low standard that a decent Saturday side would mop the floor with the best womens team. Yet we have calls for pay parity, coverage parity and even the absurd commentary by some that there is a similar standard or that the womens game is 'better.' It all seems very self serving, and while also being told to not compare it to mens by many, this demand has to co-exist with ex female players who played essentially amateur stuff, commenting on professional mens football as if it is comparable.

Anyway, go enjoy it like I said. Enjoy it's forced ascendancy to the football audience, and I'll join you in hoping it improves at even a fraction of the rate of the exposure it gets- as it is presently terrible. Just look at the technique of the city player who assists the second city goal as she struggles to get a shot away. It's so bad, it's like the guy who comes to 5 a side and you quickly realise isnt good. This simply doesnt command the level of coverage it gets.

 

[Pughnichi]

Not sure where you are getting the hostility, just educating you on your incorrect suggestion of 'tickets all but given away and largely occupied by kids.'

As I said, the majority of tickets are bought by adults, but yes higher % of kids than you would find at a Men's match as it's more affordable and accessible which is obviously a good thing.
At the same time, the prices have actually more than doubled from last season so demand is undoubtedly growing rapidly - 30k was the record attendance for MU Women v Villa last season @ £6/3. New record of 45k yesterday is at £15/7.50 - Arsenal were charging even more than that at the Emirates too, yes it's cheaper but hardly 'given away'.

Football is obviously by far the biggest sport in the country so it's pretty obvious there is going to be more coverage. But I've noticed that things like Women's Rugby and Cricket are also being televised for the first time in recent years. I have zero interest in either sport whether men or women, so I just ignore it rather than moaning about it.

Whether you like it or not, the coverage is just going to continue to grow so best get used to it!

I think it’s fair to say that the status of elite male players is far greater than that of their female counterparts

So, the same, you would imagine applies when they retire.

that said I’d much rather have a World Cup winner, a champions league winner, someone who has been at the top of the men’s game…in the studio providing their insight. But instead, there is an apparent drive to have a female on the panel. And whilst they know the game, they haven’t played it at the highest level and I’m sure there’s a significant majority that would rather listen to the thoughts of lineker, Henry, Vieira, Mourinho, Keane, Neville, souness, carragher etc than a retired female

im very conscious it’s a sensitive subject and saying the wrong thing you may look Like a bigot!…but that’s not the case. My personal grievance isn’t at all with the womens game, players, supporters etc. it’s the machine that’s pushing the agenda that it HAS to grow.

I also acknowledge that the coverage will continue…and should continue. good luck to it. But it shouldn’t be at the watered down expense of the men’s coverage.

As I’ve said earlier in this post I do genuinely hope the women’s game grows. But it has to be organically and given my own personal experience with the FA…I don’t trust/believe that to be the case

 

[Rood]

Oh I'll have to get used to it, because like I said it will continue to be forced on supporters of the mens game, which is a different sport. Im not going around in circles on this, but once again re tickets, read my initial post which you first claimed I said were 'free'. Which I corrected you on. Now you're literally giving numbers to prove my point - 7.50 in the modern day is as cheap as a cinema ticket, if not cheaper. To get into old trafford. It is all but giving it away - which is what I said in my first post. Youre just arguing my point, not 'educating' anything. Im also not arguing that there shouldnt be more coverage of football, which as you say is bigger. Im saying comparatively to other sports, there isnt the same infiltration of mens rugby by womens, or other teams sports where the standard is so poor.

Overall, we're seeing a game played to such a low standard that a decent Saturday side would mop the floor with the best womens team. Yet we have calls for pay parity, coverage parity and even the absurd commentary by some that there is a similar standard or that the womens game is 'better.' It all seems very self serving, and while also being told to not compare it to mens by many, this demand has to co-exist with ex female players who played essentially amateur stuff, commenting on professional mens football as if it is comparable.

Anyway, go enjoy it like I said. Enjoy it's forced ascendancy to the football audience, and I'll join you in hoping it improves at even a fraction of the rate of the exposure it gets- as it is presently terrible. Just look at the technique of the city player who assists the second city goal as she struggles to get a shot away. It's so bad, it's like the guy who comes to 5 a side and you quickly realise isnt good. This simply doesnt command the level of coverage it gets.

£7.50 is the kids price (I assumed this was obvious but I guess not) - £15 for adults (so more than double my local cinema). Although its good value compared to PL tickets, I certainly dont agree that this is anything like giving the tickets away plus clearly you were wrong to suggest that most attendees are children.

Your original point was to question the demand for Womens football and you tried to downplay the record attendances, but you completely ignored the point that in 1 year the demand has taken attendance from 30k to 45k at Old Trafford despite a price increase of 150%. There are many other examples like the Womens FA Cup Final selling out Wembley for the first time this year and sell outs for the Lionesses etc.

Not one person in this thread has said anything about pay parity, coverage parity or that the Womens game is of the same standard as the Mens (in fact Ive never heard anyone say this) - not sure what female commentators has to do with watching Manchester United Women either, seems you have a major chip on your shoulder in general.

You actually constantly contradict yourself too because on one hand you say the Womens game is a different sport (I agree) but then continually compare it to Mens football which is utterly pointless.

 

[Rood]

I think it’s fair to say that the status of elite male players is far greater than that of their female counterparts

So, the same, you would imagine applies when they retire.

that said I’d much rather have a World Cup winner, a champions league winner, someone who has been at the top of the men’s game…in the studio providing their insight. But instead, there is an apparent drive to have a female on the panel. And whilst they know the game, they haven’t played it at the highest level and I’m sure there’s a significant majority that would rather listen to the thoughts of lineker, Henry, Vieira, Mourinho, Keane, Neville, souness, carragher etc than a retired female

im very conscious it’s a sensitive subject and saying the wrong thing you may look Like a bigot!…but that’s not the case. My personal grievance isn’t at all with the womens game, players, supporters etc. it’s the machine that’s pushing the agenda that it HAS to grow.

I also acknowledge that the coverage will continue…and should continue. good luck to it. But it shouldn’t be at the watered down expense of the men’s coverage.

As I’ve said earlier in this post I do genuinely hope the women’s game grows. But it has to be organically and given my own personal experience with the FA…I don’t trust/believe that to be the case

No idea why people are coming in this thread to moan about female commentators.

For what its worth, I think there are good male pundits and lots of shit ones too, Michael Owen won the Ballon D'or but is one of the worst of the lot so there is not much connection between how good a player you were and how good a pundit. Likewise there are good and bad female pundits.

But anyway this thread is nothing to do with that, feel free to start a thread in the Football Forum if you want to moan about female pundits.

 

[sullydnl]

 

[Cooked Hen]

I just can't get into womans sports apart from maybe tennis, if you like it great it's just not for me.

But changing the name of man of the match to player, just to appease womans football is pathetic.

 

[SER19]

£7.50 is the kids price (I assumed this was obvious but I guess not) - £15 for adults (so more than double my local cinema). Although its good value compared to PL tickets, I certainly dont agree that this is anything like giving the tickets away plus clearly you were wrong to suggest that most attendees are children.

Your original point was to question the demand for Womens football and you tried to downplay the record attendances, but you completely ignored the point that in 1 year the demand has taken attendance from 30k to 45k at Old Trafford despite a price increase of 150%. There are many other examples like the Womens FA Cup Final selling out Wembley for the first time this year and sell outs for the Lionesses etc.

Not one person in this thread has said anything about pay parity, coverage parity or that the Womens game is of the same standard as the Mens (in fact Ive never heard anyone say this) - not sure what female commentators has to do with watching Manchester United Women either, seems you have a major chip on your shoulder in general.

You actually constantly contradict yourself too because on one hand you say the Womens game is a different sport (I agree) but then continually compare it to Mens football which is utterly pointless.

Im not continuing this. You have a pattern of arguing things that nobody said (now you're arguing about what people have said in this thread for some reason - i never mentioned people in this thread. its a bizarre pattern), and regards your last point, you either dont read posts slowly enough, or are just hyper defensive about womens football. As ive said already, just move on, my opinion cant impact how much you enjoy the sport, however terrible the sport is - and we clearly have too different an opinion to do anything but keep going back and forth pointlessly.

 

[Demon Barber]

Im not continuing this. You have a pattern of arguing things that nobody said (now you're arguing about what people have said in this thread for some reason - i never mentioned people in this thread. its a bizarre pattern), and regards your last point, you either dont read posts slowly enough, or are just hyper defensive about womens football. As ive said already, just move on, my opinion cant impact how much you enjoy the sport, however terrible the sport is - and we clearly have too different an opinion to do anything but keep going back and forth pointlessly.

You mentioned hostility at one point, when there was none. You have continually mentioned being bombarded with promotion of the women's game to the extent that you find it hard to cope (bless) You have made your points clear about the standard of the women's game compared to the men's. You have spouted nonsense about free tickets/attendances. And now, despite saying "I'm not continuing this", you say "however terrible the sport is."

You have absolutely nothing to contribute here. We enjoy it, you don't. Move on.

 

[Rood]

Im not continuing this. You have a pattern of arguing things that nobody said (now you're arguing about what people have said in this thread for some reason - i never mentioned people in this thread. its a bizarre pattern), and regards your last point, you either dont read posts slowly enough, or are just hyper defensive about womens football. As ive said already, just move on, my opinion cant impact how much you enjoy the sport, however terrible the sport is - and we clearly have too different an opinion to do anything but keep going back and forth pointlessly.

Your opinion (however terrible it is) certainly wont impact my enjoyment in any way.
I wouldnt have even wasted my time responding to you if it wasnt for your constant factual inaccuracies and contradictions which had to be corrected.

The only bizarre thing is why you would even come into the United Women's Forum - surely someone who thinks there is too much coverage and promotion would just avoid it.

Anyway it's great that you actually watched the match and contributed to Sky's highest ever WSL viewship !

 

[Lightbringer]

This warms the heart of many United fans, just to think this happened in 1000s of homes on sunday makes me really happy! I grew up idolizing male players and that was magic, now girls will be able to enjoy the same type of magic and see that they can strive to become the next Ella Toone, Mary Earps etc. Thats invaluable to me!

 

[SER19]

You mentioned hostility at one point, when there was none. You have continually mentioned being bombarded with promotion of the women's game to the extent that you find it hard to cope (bless) You have made your points clear about the standard of the women's game compared to the men's. You have spouted nonsense about free tickets/attendances. And now, despite saying "I'm not continuing this", you say "however terrible the sport is."

You have absolutely nothing to contribute here. We enjoy it, you don't. Move on.

Nope, too much of this post is wrong, you're too triggered to engage with. I suggest you put me on mute, its a useful function

 

[SER19]

Your opinion (however terrible it is) certainly wont impact my enjoyment in any way.
I wouldnt have even wasted my time responding to you if it wasnt for your constant factual inaccuracies and contradictions which had to be corrected.

The only bizarre thing is why you would even come into the United Women's Forum - surely someone who thinks there is too much coverage and promotion would just avoid it.

Anyway it's great that you actually watched the match and contributed to Sky's highest ever WSL viewship !

Yeah, i watched what I could and came to the thread that was created for thought on the match. The womens football threads get very low engagement but maybe its because you only want to welcome opinions that you agree with? The good news for you is that I wont enter one again as I watched in good faith and was genuinely appalled by the quality that is more disconnected from the coverage and exposure than I feared. In my opinion its a fair point and Im sorry it upsets you so much

 

[Rood]

Yeah, i watched what I could and came to the thread that was created for thought on the match. The womens football threads get very low engagement but maybe its because you only want to welcome opinions that you agree with? The good news for you is that I wont enter one again as I watched in good faith and was genuinely appalled by the quality that is more disconnected from the coverage and exposure than I feared. In my opinion its a fair point and Im sorry it upsets you so much

Lots of people in this thread said they weren't interested in the match or commented on the quality and I fully expected that.
Like I said before, I've never heard anyone suggest that the quality level is anywhere near that of the Men's because quite obviously it isn't, but that doesn't mean that it can't be enjoyable in its own right as a competitive sporting event.

Not everyone supports a Premier League club, many fans go every week to watch football of varying quality all down the footballing pyramids from pro to semipro to amateur and grassroots football.
I guess it's about your level of expectation, Man United Women have only been professional for 5 years versus over 100yrs for the Men so obviously it's silly to expect it to be anywhere near the same standard but the quality is undoubtedly improving rapidly.

The reason you got extra pushback is because you made some incorrect statements about the record attendances. Plus some other strange comments about it being forced on you and then went off on a tangent about subjects which are nothing to do with this thread (pay parity, women commentators etc).

Still I'm glad you gave it a go and if it's not for you then fair enough, but record attendances and TV numbers suggests more and more people are taking an interest so you should expect ever increasing coverage of the Women's game.