Will we ever get a Brasilian or Argie before they become too expensive. Robhino....??

gulli_G

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Do we have any scouts in South America???, why do we keep on missing on the youngsters, be they Argie's Brasilians or even Europeans.

Just seen a new story that the Arse are well after Peter Chech (considered the best in the world at 20???)why do we not hear about our interest in these players??

IMO we should buy this Robhino (and hone his skills) and Peter Chech, and phase him in and Barthez out (Hate to say this as he one of my fave's but is just too short and getting old).
 
It's simple. Unless they've played in 75% of their country's last 2 years of compedative matches, they won't get a work permit. So if they're that good, they'll be fecking expensive.
 
but thats why got feeder clubs, Arthur Gomez anyone.
 
We'll never be anything without a Brazilian.
 
robinios buy out clause is $35 million and hes only 19... that may well be too expensive already... Adriano (parma) would be a good option I think he may have a european passport as he plays in Italy (if not lets just find him a wife)... and could be available for around 10 - 12 million
 
I keep reading on websites and in various papers that we are looking for Adriano but I've never seen him play and dont know much about him, is he any good?
 
Originally posted by thumper:
<strong>I keep reading on websites and in various papers that we are looking for Adriano but I've never seen him play and dont know much about him, is he any good?</strong><hr></blockquote>

yes hes very good... he has a very strong shot and he is big and strong enough to hold the ball up... but has the brazilian flair to go with it...he has scored 15 goals in seria a this year (only vieri has more league goals) and none of them are penalties... he is only 20 years old... only problem is inter ovn half his contract with parma.

after parma beat roma capello said:

"At Parma there is a player that shoots with more force than Roberto Carlos," Capello said of Adriano. "In the first-half he created many instances of danger that we have not coped with.
 
According to a brazillian forum, Robinho is one of if not THE biggest prospect in Brazil. Pele said Robinho might become better than him... then again, Pele hasn't exactly been succesful in the pundit department has he ;)
 
Originally posted by Kevin:
<strong>According to a brazillian forum, Robinho is one if not THE biggest prospect in Brazil. Pele said Robinho might become better than him... then again, Pele hasn't exactly been succesful in the pundit department has he ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

heres an article from FIFA about him... <a href="http://www.fifa.com/en/display/article,53890.html" target="_blank">http://www.fifa.com/en/display/article,53890.html</a>


Robinho - the 19-year-old with a $35m price tag
(FIFA.com) 24 Apr 2003


A new star has been born in Brazilian football. Robinho, a striker with electrifying dribbling skills, plays for reigning Brazilian champions Santos and has already been compared to the likes of Garrincha and Pelé. The latter has even said that Robinho might well overshadow him one day. FIFA Magazine traces the rise of Brazil’s newest phenomenon.
By Jörg Wolfrum
Not so long ago, Robinho was more of a concern to his mother and father – Marina and Gilvan – than to opponents on a football field. Much to his parents’ dismay, he would tear around the streets of São Paulo trailing after anything that even slightly resembled a football – entirely oblivious to the streams of traffic thundering past.

Today, 19-year-old Robinho is, however, quick to play down the effect that those hours of kicking around tin cans and makeshift balls fashioned from bundles of material have had on his breathtaking skills.

In December 2002, it was those skills that grabbed media attention worldwide when he produced a flash of brilliance that included an incredible seven step-overs in quick succession during his club Santos’ 3-2 victory in the second leg of the championship decider against Corinthians, which ultimately secured the Brazilian title. The only way Robinho’s frustrated opponent Rogerio could stop the dazzling dribbler was to cut him down in full flow inside the penalty area. Robinho stepped up to open the scoring from the resulting penalty kick, before later turning provider for his team’s second and third goals.

“I guess it was a little cheeky,” said Robson de Souza – Robinho’s full name – to jubilant reporters at the end of the game and the newspapers swiftly drew parallels between the youngster’s dribbling and the deft trickery of the legendary Garrincha. However, the latest in a long line of Brazilian talents would hear nothing of such a comparison and assertively put his ball skills down to a “gift from God” – and not the result of kicking around tin cans.

“King of the Dribble”
It is not only in Brazil that Robinho has been sending shivers down opponents’ spines. In Santos’ 5-1 win over Colombian giants América de Cali in a Copa Libertadores tie in February 2003, Robinho again proved to be a revelation alongside his congenial 17-year-old strike partner Diego, who served as an inspirational provider. Robinho’s performance was so impressive that he was even feted in the chants of the Colombian fans and after the match the press in Cali heaped compliments on the “King of the Dribble”.

The young striker has not merely gained accolades from the media in Colombia and Brazil, but he has also provoked comparisons with stars like Garrincha and even Pelé. Pelé himself is unreserved in his admiration for the striker: “Robinho has the ability to be even better than I was.”

The diminutive teenager, who stands just 1.72m tall and weighs only 60kg, first attracted Pelé’s attention a few years ago, when the retired great sent a 14-year-old Robinho to eat with the Santos first team.

Despite what he has been given “from above”, Robinho is still very slight in build, and his coach Emerson Leão, a former goalkeeper and coach of the Brazilian national team, is among the first to admit it. Leão pays the very highest tribute to his whirlwind talent (“Robinho is already a much better dribbler of the ball than Pelé”), but at the same time acknowledges the fledgling star’s weaknesses: “The main thing that he is missing is strength and at times he can also lack the vision to pick out a team-mate in a better position.”

In Leão’s mind, Robinho is very much an “old-fashioned” player, with a penchant for dribbling rather than shooting. And with the young prodigy still more of a rough diamond than a polished professional, he inevitably relies more on innate talent than technique. But Leão sees these shortcomings as “minor things that can be improved”.

Most promising discovery since Ronaldo
Robinho already deals with the plaudits like an old-hand. “It is too early to call me the new Pelé,” he says, before assuredly adding, “I have not reached my potential yet.” Having played football with Robinho when he was a boy in the suburb of São Vicente, sports journalist Juliano Costa is sure that the player who is probably the most promising discovery in Brazilian football since Ronaldo will still keep his feet on the ground in the face of so much acclaim: “He is used to praise.” At the age of six, Robinho was already the best youth player in Baixada Santista - another São Paulo suburb.

Santos recently ruled Robinho out of playing at the FIFA World Youth Championship 2003. His outstanding ability made the club’s management adamant that they could not do without the striker, since he will play an integral part in the club’s quest to win the Copa Libertadores.

In an attempt to hold on to Robinho’s masterly skills for as long as possible, the club has even slapped a USD 35 million price tag on the talented right-footed player. Nevertheless, many top clubs in Europe are already courting the youngster. Mention of such a huge transfer fee sends the baby-faced star into just as big a spin as one of his mazy runs: “I don’t think about the money”.

After all, he has got other things on his mind: “I want to go to Athens for the 2004 Olympics with the Brazilian team.” And of course win the 2003 Copa Libertadores too.
 
Now seriously, how many times have we been told about Brazilians/Argentinians/Scousers that are the next Pele or Maradona or John O'Shea ?
I refuse to believe that all those youngsters are just THAT good, maybe the Brazilian league is just THAT weak ?
 
I watched that Santos team on Eurosport and they are f*cking good.... That Diego is well useful as well. All the players are young, skillfull, with pace and technique. We should get one of these club type agreements with them <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Originally posted by mikhail:
<strong>It's simple. Unless they've played in 75% of their country's last 2 years of compedative matches, they won't get a work permit. So if they're that good, they'll be fecking expensive.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Daft law; the french, italians and germans seem to survive the invasion of immigrant footbalers- whats the danger?
In that case I don't think Cech has enough games to come to England, unless competitive games at U21 level count. But another year of internationals and especially relegation struggle with Rennes and he'll be ready.
 
It true the media are quick with the senasational; new Maradonnas and Peles.
About robinho; couldn't claim he's the 'New Pele', but I'd say he'll be better than Kaka or Diego, who are both excellent; Robinho has some magic.
Maybe we could get him hooked up with our new partner Sporting Lisbon, but more likely Santos will hold on to him for another couple of seasons before selling, and then you'll have a bidding war with the Milans, Juve, Real etc.
 
would like to ask, have anyone really seen the kid Robinho played before? Or actually seen him on telly before?

The kid is puny, even smaller than richardson. He cant survive in the premiership.
:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Dominant:
<strong>would like to ask, have anyone really seen the kid Robinho played before? Or actually seen him on telly before?

The kid is puny, even smaller than richardson. He cant survive in the premiership.
:rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Ive seen him on eurosport about 5 times now... I think he has enough skill to play in any league in the world... or would you prefer we went for somebody big and suited to the english game like say Heskey?
 
Originally posted by Dominant:
<strong>

The kid is puny, even smaller than richardson. He cant survive in the premiership.
:rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

He is real skinny, but not a midget, meaning he has a frame to bulk up which makes a big difference and he's still growing. I don't expect him to become muscular, but strong enough and really his ability on the ball is remarkeable even when you compare him to young wizards like D'Allesandro or Rooner. Actually because he's not so big, he's able to create something in very tight spaces, say with two defenders surrounding- he'll pull a move even though it looks like they're no room.
 
When you look on the main page, the topic shows as

"Will we ever get a Brasilian"

<img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>When you look on the main page, the topic shows as

"Will we ever get a Brasilian"

<img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> with a bit of :eek: mixed in

;)
 
Originally posted by sidsutton:
<strong>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> with a bit of :eek: mixed in

;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Indeed. And I was all ready to move it to another forum as well.
 
We do find out about these players but like was said b4, without a passport they are not much use to use and if they do play enough internationals they are too expensive, only Spanish and Italian clubs will pay millions of dosh for a relatively untried youngster.
 
Originally posted by Jason F:
<strong>We do find out about these players but like was said b4, without a passport they are not much use to use and if they do play enough internationals they are too expensive, only Spanish and Italian clubs will pay millions of dosh for a relatively untried youngster.</strong><hr></blockquote>

technically you can appeal any work permit desicion on the grounds that you are not able to get a employee (player) from within the european union who can perform the same job... I wonder why no clubs have tried this?
 
Originally posted by gulli_G:
<strong>but thats why got feeder clubs, Arthur Gomez anyone.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If a Brazilian or Argie goes to the Belgian League he will never get the necessary caps to get the permit! <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

BTW, Robinho is the real deal! Won't get him though :(
 
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

If a Brazilian or Argie goes to the Belgian League he will never get the necessary caps to get the permit! <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually it's to gain the players EU citizenship by gaining Belgian nationality something which Belgium dishes out rather freely.
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Actually it's to gain the players EU citizenship by gaining Belgian nationality something which Belgium dishes out rather freely.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Doesn't it take about 2 years? A hot prospect like Robinho wouldn't go play for a shitty club for two years when he is getting so much hype. It won't happen. Who, other than a United fan, has ever heard of Arthur Gomes?
 
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

Doesn't it take about 2 years? A hot prospect like Robinho wouldn't go play for a shitty club for two years when he is getting so much hype. It won't happen. Who, other than a United fan, has ever heard of Arthur Gomes?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah fair play, in the case of supposed super hot talents like Robinho the link with Antwerp wouldn't make things any easier as you're right - there's no way he'd play for them!
 
The only way we can get this sort of players is buy them now at reasonable price, leave them on loan at their clubs and hope they will get the caps... There is an incentive for the Brazilian club to prefer this course of action (Santos certainyl would).

It's a risk, probably worth it with Robinho (you can always sell him if it doesn't work)
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>Yeah fair play, in the case of supposed super hot talents like Robinho the link with Antwerp wouldn't make things any easier as you're right - there's no way he'd play for them!</strong><hr></blockquote>

That said, I was hoping the Sporting thing worked... It would be a great way to get around this (it even makes the adaptation for the player easier as they get a first step of comign to Europe but no language issues, etc.)
 
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

That said, I was hoping the Sporting thing worked... It would be a great way to get around this (it even makes the adaptation for the player easier as they get a first step of comign to Europe but no language issues, etc.)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Still I think the day will be a sad one when a club with as much history and tradition and a club as big as Sporting becomes a feeder club for United.
 
I think it will only help to strengthen Sporting myself. they'll be tied into our merchandising and into our fanbase as well cos I'm sure there will be players going to them too to get experience. Sporting are a big club but with us backing them they will be in a much stronger position now.
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Still I think the day will be a sad one when a club with as much history and tradition and a club as big as Sporting becomes a feeder club for United.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sporting would jump at the chance of getting a talent like Robinho, I don't think there is any indignity in it; United and Sporting both benefit.

I agree Lisbon would be a good transition for Robinho, they're respected, but he's one that will draw a lot of interest.
 
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>The only way we can get this sort of players is buy them now at reasonable price, leave them on loan at their clubs and hope they will get the caps... There is an incentive for the Brazilian club to prefer this course of action (Santos certainyl would).

It's a risk, probably worth it with Robinho (you can always sell him if it doesn't work)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree he looks like the real deal.

Doesn't it come down to how good they believe Robinho will become, which translates to a monetary value. And then the club just sits on their asset until its finished and they can secure the value they'd been banking on.

Unless they're forced into selling early because they are under financial pressure and need funds.
Or if the player was bought and lent back for a few seasons, the fee would still have to be close to their estimation, and how many clubs have that kind of money to throw about?
 
Originally posted by Gabe:
<strong>Doesn't it come down to how good they believe Robinho will become, which translates to a monetary value. And then the club just sits on their asset until its finished and they can secure the value they'd been banking on.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Gabe, teams in Brazil have spent the last decade splashing out money on ageing stars at the end of their careers. Santos got screwed doing that.

Over the last few years they have focused on the youth setup. Their whole plan is based on their youth setup both for competitive and financial results (low wages demanded and living off transfer fees once they are established players). They only have 2-3 experienced players for good measure, the rest are kids.

Diego and Robinho are the first crop of talent and there will be more to come (no question about that, they know it). They are badly needing money BUT needing to still hold on to them for a season or two both to keep the team together and to give them time to blood new talent.

Any team offering the option to leave them on loan at Santos for the next couple of years will see the asking price substantially reduced. It's a fact which springs from financial need and Brazilian culture (wanting to hold on to the star players for longer if only for the sake of watching them, alleviate today's finances and tomorrow's....we shall see!).
 
Originally posted by Dominant:
<strong>The kid is puny, even smaller than richardson. He cant survive in the premiership.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

He is NOT smaller than Richardson. He is skinnier but his frame is not bad at all.

Robinho is doing a special training programme to build muscle without losing his natural agility. He is doing it with the same bloke who did the trick for Zico (who was as "puny" as Robinho and would walk into our first team however hard that might look).
 
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

He is NOT smaller than Richardson. He is skinnier but his frame is not bad at all.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

He's definately not a Richardson, I would not be too concerned about Robinho having the physique for the top flight, he has the length he just needs time to put on weight. I just hope they know what they are doing and don't over do it.
I couldn't say the same of richardson because he is short and slight, and needs a a growth spurt, bulk is relatively straightforward.
 
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

Diego and Robinho are the first crop of talent and there will be more to come (no question about that, they know it). They are badly needing money BUT needing to still hold on to them for a season or two both to keep the team together and to give them time to blood new talent.

Any team offering the option to leave them on loan at Santos for the next couple of years will see the asking price substantially reduced. It's a fact which springs from financial need and Brazilian culture (wanting to hold on to the star players for longer if only for the sake of watching them, alleviate today's finances and tomorrow's....we shall see!).</strong><hr></blockquote>

IF they need money thats a different story, I just wonder how many clubs can make those kind of investments, what would they want 10-15mil?
He would be a pretty safe bet IMO; its hard to see him failing, the only element he lacks is some physique and experience, both of which will come in time. Skillwise I though Robinho the most talented young player to appear this season(Rooney incl.). also he seems to have a good temperment, very confident(understable considering what he can do) and positive.
 
Originally posted by Gabe:
<strong>

IF they need money thats a different story, I just wonder how many clubs can make those kind of investments, what would they want 10-15mil?
He would be a pretty safe bet IMO; its hard to see him failing, the only element he lacks is some physique and experience, both of which will come in time. Skillwise I though Robinho the most talented young player to appear this season(Rooney incl.). also he seems to have a good temperment, very confident(understable considering what he can do) and positive.</strong><hr></blockquote>


robinho has a buy out clause of $35 million which is about 22 miliion for him alone and there is no sign that the club do need the money... he is a fantastic player who will get better but I cant imagine SAF spending 22 million on a player who may not get a work permit... hope im wrong but I doubt we will ever be lucky enough to see him in the premiership