Will this set of players under ETH struggle for goals WITHOUT Ronaldo?

[Von Mistelroum]

Ok so there's the point that losing our top scorer doesn't necessarily mean we'll score less goals, but who are we expecting to step up? Because if we're relying on Martial as our striker then I think we're really in a mess. I don't think a single other PL club (or many Championship ones) would have him over their striker.

So who will score the goals? I wouldn't put money on Rashford doing much, so we're relying on Bruno and Sancho.

 

[Maticmaker]

They certainly think they can do better without Ronaldo.

Now they will have the chance to prove it!

It was always a gamble on CR returning, his ambition was to give himself a target and that was help us win the PL, but that didn't happen.
That's it really, the gamble didn't pay off either for the club or the player.

There was some debate, in that CR's arrival cast a long shadow which others struggle to get out from under, but he is the only one to come out of it with his credibility still intact. The other players who are our supposedly recognised goal scorers have now lost their shadow and need to step into the sunlight.... and step up to the plate.

 

[Remember the geese]

I think we will be fine, yes... but I think we will struggle to score goals. We couldn't last season, and there isn't much to make me feel that will change v much. Yes, Sancho, Bruno and Rashford could, could potentially all improve on their respective goal tally last season (and so they should...) but I'm not sure it will be easier. I can't see why it should be. Ronaldo didn't stifle Rashford, or Sancho for example.

I can fully understand the concern. I think my confidence in ten Hag is what swings it for me. I have faith that the system he will attempt to implement will make us more cohesive and we will function more fluidly as a team. Better off the ball movement and 'greater than the sum of our parts'.

 

[The_Midfielder]

That's what I have been saying on the other thread.. we will spread out the goals..
Even a Werner and Ziyech for Ronaldo will be a better deal for us ..

 

[the_cliff]

We'll score more goals without Ronaldo than we did last season with him.

 

[Thoms]

That's what I have been saying on the other thread.. we will spread out the goals..
Even a Werner and Ziyech for Ronaldo will be a better deal for us ..

I hope to see this happen. Werner and Ziyech combined with FdJ would be SO fecking good for United.
Shame Ziyech is going to AC Milan. Werner could come in very handy if Ronaldo leaves.

 

[crossy1686]

They certainly think they can do better without Ronaldo.

Can only image how liberating it would be to no longer have someone around that wants to win every game. They'll be saying the same when Ten Hag get's sacked next, these players have no business being at the club.

 

[Stadjer]

Ok so there's the point that losing our top scorer doesn't necessarily mean we'll score less goals, but who are we expecting to step up? Because if we're relying on Martial as our striker then I think we're really in a mess. I don't think a single other PL club (or many Championship ones) would have him over their striker.

So who will score the goals? I wouldn't put money on Rashford doing much, so we're relying on Bruno and Sancho.

Not the Martial of last two seasons but if ten Hag can have Martial play close to his 19/20 form than Martial is a very good striker. That is a very big if though. Same goes for Rashford. Martial, Rashford and Sancho would be a good forward line if they somehow start to play like they have before.

Really sucks that Greenwood turned out to be a complete idiot. Would have made the Ronaldo wanting to leave problem a lot less problematic.

 

[Daslogisch]

It's a question on form.

Get two of Sancho, Rashford, Martial and Bruno back into form and scoring goals and youve already solved most of the problem.

Agreed. You're going to become a much more dynamic team and therefore already going to be more of an attacking force. Getting two of those four in form shouldn't be too much too ask to be honest. I wouldn't be surprised to see three of them on form next season. And then there's Eriksen who can create a lot of chances, maybe Donny finding his way in a team that actually has a plan. Donny can easily get 10 league goals from midfield if he gets enough playing time.

United will be a much better attacking force next season for sure. With or without Ronaldo. Defense might be a bigger worry.

 

[Mart1974]

It's absolute BS to suggest we would be irrelevant. It's a concern clearly without Ronaldo's goals but I liken it very much to the RVN situation.

In 2005/6 RVN scored 21 premier league goals. He left at the end of the season
The following season, the top goal scorer only scored 17 goals (Ronaldo)

In 2005/6 we scored 72 goals total
In 2006/7 we scored 83 goals total

Whilst RVN was deadly, we were forced to play to his strengths and the team struggled as a result. The team scored less goals and were less successful when RVN was at the club. With him gone, we were able to play a better brand of football and the goals were better spread around.

Came here to reference the RVN situation and happy to see someone had beaten me to it. A single focal point for goals is not always a good thing. Ciddy have managed fine without a 30 goal a season CF

 

[Trequarista10]

Considering we've lost/losing Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood, Lingard, James and Mata, Rashford's form has reached new lows and Martial barely even seems like a United player anymore, we surely need at least two more forward signings.

Can't judge how we'll score without knowing who were bringing in.

 

[Zen86]

We’ll be better off without him. Certainly in the long run, but the short term very much depends on getting a replacement. Either way, we’ll create more without him.

 

[tjb]

Others will/should stand up and contribute more. The responsibility will/should be shared by the rest. Ronaldo definitely comes with goals but he's also the focal point and the game plan is worked around him.

I'd think we're still extra light up top and will need a CF when he leaves.

I don't actually think so. Our problem for the last few years imo has not been an inability to finish chances. For me, it has been our ability to get the ball to our creative players quickly enough. Bruno for most of his time here has been creating chances out of nothing.

Eriksen already coming in is a game changer for this. He's not the Eriksen that played at Spurs, at Brentford, he's been operating a little bit deeper. I can see us moving to a 433 to accommodate this, rotating between him and Fred depending on the difficulty of the opposition. FDJ also joining in would make us good on the ball in midfield in deeper positions. We have creativity in the form of Sancho, Bruno and Eriksen ( from deep) as well. Rashford/Martial or whoever simply have to be at the end of it

 

[kouroux]

It's absolute BS to suggest we would be irrelevant. It's a concern clearly without Ronaldo's goals but I liken it very much to the RVN situation.

In 2005/6 RVN scored 21 premier league goals. He left at the end of the season
The following season, the top goal scorer only scored 17 goals (Ronaldo)

In 2005/6 we scored 72 goals total
In 2006/7 we scored 83 goals total

Whilst RVN was deadly, we were forced to play to his strengths and the team struggled as a result. The team scored less goals and were less successful when RVN was at the club. With him gone, we were able to play a better brand of football and the goals were better spread around.

It ain't about losing Ronaldo only though for me, we are also currently without a Cavani/Greenwood replacement in the attacking department. Whilst there is hope for Sancho and Rashford to improve, there is little from me with Martial

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Its a balance:

• Will the team work better as a cohesive unit without a player with one of the worst work rates off the ball in the league? Absolutely!
• Will the team score fewer goals without one if not the greatest goal scorer of all time? Absolutely!

I think long-term Ronaldo leaving would help, as it would allow Ten Hag to play the kind of football he appears to favor from the get-go, instead of having to adapt that style to fit in with the club's star player.
The problem is without Ronaldo, with no real obvious high-quality strikers on the market or maybe not having the funds to sign one if our scouting department (which currently seems to be a google search of dutch players) did identify one, so who on earth plays upfront?

The options would be:

• Rashford -who seems to have completely forgotten how to play the role despite how natural he looked at the position when he first broke through.
• Martial - who has never really looked natural up top and whose form and attitude has been dreadful for years
• Elanga: Did it a few times last season, but didn't really shine.

So we are in a situation where we either play a player who doesn't want to be here in a system that probably would be a mix match of what the coach wants and what suits Ronaldo (and may end up being the worst of both worlds. Or we desperately scramble to find anyone to play up top.

Its kind of a lose lose situation. Wonderful

 

[DWelbz19]

They certainly think they can do better without Ronaldo.

It sounds like guff but honestly I think just his presence in the team does shackle other players a bit. I don’t even think it’s intentional from Ronaldo or anything, but it does happen. Sort of reminds me when you were younger playing in the park or at school with one of the best players or a lad who was a few years older — subconsciously you play in a way where you overthink things or you delegate/pander more to said player.

 

[Longshanks]

Its a balance:

• Will the team work better as a cohesive unit without a player with one of the worst work rates off the ball in the league? Absolutely!
• Will the team score fewer goals without one if not the greatest goal scorer of all time? Absolutely!

I think long-term Ronaldo leaving would help, as it would allow Ten Hag to play the kind of football he appears to favor from the get-go, instead of having to adapt that style to fit in with the club's star player.
The problem is without Ronaldo, with no real obvious high-quality strikers on the market or maybe not having the funds to sign one if our scouting department (which currently seems to be a google search of dutch players) did identify one, so who on earth plays upfront?

The options would be:

• Rashford -who seems to have completely forgotten how to play the role despite how natural he looked at the position when he first broke through.
• Martial - who has never really looked natural up top and whose form and attitude has been dreadful for years
• Elanga: Did it a few times last season, but didn't really shine.

So we are in a situation where we either play a player who doesn't want to be here in a system that probably would be a mix match of what the coach wants and what suits Ronaldo (and may end up being the worst of both worlds. Or we desperately scramble to find anyone to play up top.

Its kind of a lose lose situation. Wonderful

I will happily take the bet that without Ronaldo this season we will score more goals than last season with Ronaldo. It wasnt just his defensive workrate that causes issues, its his demand to build team around making chances for him, all the chances get funneled towards him and him only other goalscoring players are sacrificed in the system for the sake of Ronaldo scoring goals, the same thing happened with Rooney in his first spell and it defiantly had an effect on greenwood/rashford/cavani last season.

 

[bugmat]

Lower goals for our top scorer, but more goals all around with a young, active hardworking striker...so we still probably need to bring that young guy in

 

[TwoSheds]

Eriksen will make a big difference but yes we would struggle. Only hope would be if Rashford remembers where he left his confidence. Martial is not a footballer any more. Think Bruno would have a better season than last year but he's not going to score enough on his own to make up for losing Ronaldo. Sancho is unknown at this point, will probably step up but will he go from 4 goals to 6 goals or 4 goals to 26 goals? I'd be surprised if it's closer to the latter than the former.

 

[r3idy]

I believe we will be just fine. Although he scored 20 odd goals last year what if we keep him and he ends up only gettting 10 or 15. Cliched as feck but he is not getting any younger and I can't see him modifying his game further to accomodate his physical decline.

We Know Rashford has goals in him as does Martial, Sancho has a much higher ceiling than what he shown last season. Before anyone starts getting their pitchforks out, my point it is not beyond possibility for ETH to get more out of them three than what we saw under the latter stages of Ole and RR.

 

[golden_blunder]

We will score more than last season with or without Ronaldo. I believe that the way we will play will equate to more goal scoring chances and players like Rashford will regain some kind of semblance of form

 

[Ludens the Red]

Some of these posts
Did people see Martial and Rashfords input last season? Or did I just imagine it? People talk about Ronaldo breaking down the cohesion. Anytime Rashford touched the ball last season we were an abomination.

If we replace Ronaldo with a top striker then yeah sure the new guy will get the goals. If we go into the season as Martial and Rashford as our CF options were fecked.

 

[Hawks2008]

With Bruno getting back on pens he will probably hit double digits for goals, the rest I'm not sure. We might have the weakest forward line of the 'top 6', good thing we're chasing another CB though!

 

[cyberman]

Nope, I think Bruno has to be a success either way for ETH to succeed and he brings goals from behind the striker. Say he gets 15 to 20 next year, that’s four attacking players we have to score goals versus most others teams 3. So another team has a top striker that scores 25 but there’s not much more behind him through the middle to beef that up. With Bruno it means our striker shouldn’t need to score a big total to make up for losing Ronaldo. It’s all on Ten Hag

 

[Wheato]

They certainly think they can do better without Ronaldo.

If that were true, then where were they all when Ronaldo was injured? They didn't look very liberated to me. Disinterested, not bothered. Rashford would come on as a sub, but play like he'd just ran a marathon. The lack of effort was very evident. Also, the service into Ronaldo was pitiful. He thrives on crosses, but none came in. In the end he had to do it all by himself. If you're the sort of player who would sabotage a game just to make a point, then you don't belong in a team sport and you don't belong at Manchester United.

 

[Stacks]

They certainly think they can do better without Ronaldo.

they certainly did before

Any team that contains Ronaldo (be it Madrid, Juve or United) is built to make chances for Ronaldo and to sacrifice the output of the players around him.

Losing Ronaldo does mean you'll specificaly lose his goals. But it also means you'll regain all the goals his teammate would have been able to create for themselves.

Bruno is the easiest illustration of this to see. He was playing noticeably deeper than usual last season and getting into the box significantly less. Not to mention the penalties he could have taken or the extra pressure he faced on the penalties he missed.

Bruno went from seasons scoring 33 goals, 27 goals and 28 goals to all of a sudden only getting 10. Loss of form might explain some of it. But not all of it.

when Ronaldo eats no one else does

 

[Revaulx]

I have absolutely no doubt that our attacking play will improve significantly next season; partly because of no Ronaldo, but mainly thanks to the new manager and improved midfield. Whether we’ll fully take advantage of that by scoring lots of goals I’m really not sure.

While I’m firmly in the Better Off Without Him camp, I do worry that people are getting a bit giddy at the prospect of his departure. They also seem to be confusing the second place season (73 goals) with the previous third place one (66 goals).

Rashford and Martial were both brilliant in 19/20, and Bruno arriving in January was a revelation. The following season we had good numbers from Cavani and Greenwood also, plus brilliant ones from Bruno. Rashford still scored a goodly few, though his general play had declined through injury and (probably) being overplayed, but Martial’s form had completely collapsed.

So it’s a long time now since Martial and Rashford were banging them in for fun, and when they were it was in a completely different system. They’ve both also had plenty of injuries since then. Cavani and (presumably) Greenwood have gone. Sancho is still an unknown quantity scoring-wise. Eriksen should certainly help with set pieces, but beyond that is anyone’s guess.

The only player I can see that was directly impacted by Ronaldo’s presence in the side is Bruno. Whether he’ll even fit into an ETH side is open to debate; I think he will and should score quite a few.

We definitely need a centre forward. Not necessarily a £100m “superstar”; someone under 30 who’s hard working, not a crock and is willing and able to follow instructions. I have no idea who that might be.

 

[meamth]

No reason we can’t score a lot more goals this season than last season, I’m certain we will with or without Ronaldo.
We scored more goals in 2009-2010 than 2006-2007/2007-2008/2008-2009.
That was a far superior version of Ronaldo we lost.

Yes, that was a different team with SAF at the helm, but I have a great feeling about ETH, and there’s plenty of players in the team that have goals in them.

If we play well as a team, the goals will come.

This one really hits me. How many goals have we scored if our players squared the ball to better positioned players last season? That's the main problem, always has been.

Our final passes is non existent or shit to be honest. We need to fix that first.

 

[Shark]

That depends on who we replace him with.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

for me, I want to see 2 things happen under Ten Hag: -

• Defensive Solidity as a "Unit"
• Midfield Control

So, whether Ronaldo stays or not, I would not matter to me, as I want to see the above 2 things happen first, because I think it is key to make the team solid and not easy to get through, to be able to press as a team, control the game and pin down opponents, this way, we will not see a repeat of games like Brighton where they attacked the goal at will, or against Palace, where the midfield and even the whole team could not string 5 passes together.

for attack, even if Ronaldo leaves, it will be ok for now, because as long as the team is solid defensively and can control the game properly, it will lead to plenty of chance creation (Eriksen & Bruno are excellent creators!) and the attack will have a better and solid basis to kick off from.

 

[LoneStar]

Am I the only one who thinks we will miss Greenwood (the stupid feck) more than Ronaldo? The season before, Bruno, Rashford and Greenwood were lighting it up. We have already added Sancho and Eriksen to that list. While letting go of Cavani to be fair.

Hypothetically, if we had a like for like replacement for Greenwood, we would have a decent attack. Bruno, Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Eriksen, VDB and this hypothetical replacement will have enough goals between them. I realise that it's easier said than done to find a replacement for a talent like Greenwood though.

 

[Marcelinho87]

It's not even as simple as others out of form.. these players have to sacrifice their game to accommodate Ronaldo, everything must go through him or he stands throwing arms about.. must be nerve wrecking as a young player.

We will be better without.

 

[Tavern in the town]

Am I the only one who thinks we will miss Greenwood (the stupid feck) more than Ronaldo? The season before, Bruno, Rashford and Greenwood were lighting it up. We have already added Sancho and Eriksen to that list. While letting go of Cavani to be fair.

Hypothetically, if we had a like for like replacement for Greenwood, we would have a decent attack. Bruno, Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Eriksen, VDB and this hypothetical replacement will have enough goals between them. I realise that it's easier said than done to find a replacement for a talent like Greenwood though.

You know how players suddenly become better when they get long term injuries? That’s Greenwood at the moment.

 

[Rake]

We scored 20ish goals less with Ronaldo than without him... We will be alright. Also, will surely sign someone if he leaves.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Nah it needs signings, Rashford and Martial have just half arsed their way through a whole season, they can’t be the answer again

 

[sparx99]

The irony is that I think Ronaldo would really benefit from ETH. The kind of chances his teams make with passes across the box (similarly to City) are perfect for his poacher style. Pressing isn't everything and if we are able to keep the ball better then pressing can happen in less frequent bursts.

 

[Smores]

If you frame this question as about Ronaldo we just get the usual rehashed nonsense that we heard most of last season before his detractors went quiet.

The question should be can we score enough goals without bringing in a dependable striker?

Is it wise for our attack to rely on players who have proven themselves unreliable to suddenly turn world class?

The answer to either question is obviously no. It's far too big of a risk and undermines our new project from the off. Far too many have convinced themselves ETH will wave his wand and we'll instantly be playing top football but it won't be that easy.

 

[Idxomer]

Nah it needs signings, Rashford and Martial have just half arsed their way through a whole season and now they’re the answer again

Agreed. For all of Rangnick's faults, he was right about our need to sign two forwards.

I'm surprised at the lack of links to any strikers and the talks of only going for Antony if Ronaldo leaves.

 

[red woppit]

I was watching a lot of youtube reactions and made the grievous mistake of hearing a Talk Sport (feat. Rory from The Kick Off, who's a Chelsea fan) and Goldbridge opinion piece. After having a shower to rub off the guilt to hear their trash, I wanted to see if I wasn't going crazy:

Their school of thought is Ronaldo = goals. Without his goals we'd be close to relegation. His goals alone got us 10 points in the CL group stages, etc.
This logic goes on to insinuate without him we'd be irrelevant. I don't buy this for a second because we dont have Ole or Rangnick under Woodward right now. We have Erik Ten Hag, and strengthened foundations with 3-4 signings on top.

Despite this I've seen various posts on the caf panicking about our goal threat without Ronaldo. That Rashford and Martial are not good enough, that VDB has shown nothing, Bruno is erratic and Sancho hasn't done enough yet.

I actually believe we will be fine for goal threat even if we don't have Ronaldo. It sounds crazy but I look to the 2017 Ajax side and it was so fun to watch, and I see the talent we have, a lot of players have it in them but just need to right system and coaching instilled. Imagine no Ronaldo, but Bruno/Sancho/Rashford/Eriksen + VDB/Martial featuring.

Do you really think we'd struggle for putting the ball in the back of the net? I find the youtube fan channels just going over the top and some posts being dramatic here.

If Ronaldo leaves, then I believe that we would get more players getting into scoring positions in the box. I have a feeling that Ronaldo was always the one getting into goal scoring positions and others players being frightened to take up a similar position, if he went, then those players, I believe, would be encouraged to get into the box a lot more. I don't think we would get as many crosses into the box as previously, I think we would look for more movement in and around the box, which is what VDB is good at, and if he played regularly then I believe he could quite easily pick up 10 goals throughout the season. I also believe that Martial and Rashford will both be better under Ten Hag, whether that means either or both getting 20+ goals I'm not sure, but I can see both having better seasons.

 

[R'hllor]

They certainly think they can do better without Ronaldo.

Until we purge these cnuts, there is no going forward with us, our culture is rotten to the core. I wouldnt enjoy playing with such obnoxious cnut like Ronaldo but that tweet makes it sound like all time great winner Ronaldo locked their quality/desire/hunger, like they were winning left right center before him haha, feckers have no shame.