Will the world will be a better place without the US involvement in everything?

You know, if you think about it, extremist militant Islam, which appears to be one of the biggest, if not thee biggest threat in today´s world, can be traced right back to the front door of the United States policy. They´ve been coddling the Saudi´s for years for their oil, meanwhile casting a blind eye to the hardcore conservative Wahhabism the wealthy Saudi´s have been exporting and generously funding through the Islamic world, the US had a massive hand in meddling in Iranian politics opening the way for their fundamentalist regime and influence, they practically created the Taliban and Osama, no need to mention the ill thought invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and the creation of Isis, and being Israel´s greatest benefactor and supporter has been a huge recruitment factor as well.

You would have to consider this in the OP.
 
Nobby style said:
You know, if you think about it, extremist militant Islam, which appears to be one of the biggest, if not thee biggest threat in today´s world, can be traced right back to the front door of the United States policy. They´ve been coddling the Saudi´s for years for their oil, meanwhile casting a blind eye to the hardcore conservative Wahhabism the wealthy Saudi´s have been exporting and generously funding through the Islamic world, the US had a massive hand in meddling in Iranian politics opening the way for their fundamentalist regime and influence, they practically created the Taliban and Osama, no need to mention the ill thought invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and the creation of Isis, and being Israel´s greatest benefactor and supporter has been a huge recruitment factor as well.

You would have to consider this in the OP.
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I have to agree with all of this except the part about our involvement in Afghanistan beginning in October 2001.

Our foreign policy since 1963 has been more bad than good, but I believe Afghanistan was the right war. If we hadn't have invaded Iraq and focused all of our resources on Afghanistan, I think the campaign would have gone very differently.
 
Sky1981 said:
Discounting their involvement in the WW2, In the last 100 years the US has had her involvement in many nation's history. Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, Cuba, not to mention indirect involvement by the CIA in toppling / installing regimes across the world, indirect/direct support to a certain regimes, arms supplying, and international pressure, etc.

In your opinion, do you think the world will be better of without US involvement?
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For this to be a meaningful question there needs to be more precision as to what you mean by "US involvement".

Would the world be better off if the US didn't exist? No chance.

Would the world be a better off had the US not invaded Iraq? Absolutely.
 
Raoul said:
Brexit and Trump are for me, just short term reponses to longer term changes that are taking place in the world, which are being driven by technology, economics, and the pressures to cooperate. Trump and Brexit among other things, merely illustrate that progress doesn't occur in tidy, sequential periods of time but rather through the constant interplay of ideas, interests, and the new rules and norms that emerge out of previous ones.
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Do you still think the turmoil is short term?
 
Raoul said:
Brexit and Trump are for me, just short term reponses to longer term changes that are taking place in the world, which are being driven by technology, economics, and the pressures to cooperate. Trump and Brexit among other things, merely illustrate that progress doesn't occur in tidy, sequential periods of time but rather through the constant interplay of ideas, interests, and the new rules and norms that emerge out of previous ones.
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i think your probably right,

but its even more complicated then that things like this appeal to people who have been neglected or even abused by society, and you look at the country right now and yes London has recovered but so many people havnt seen any recovery since the crash in 2008, and many communities havn't recovered from the decimation of old industries in the 70's and 80's, in fact many areas things are getting worse with increased automation reducing jobs a squeeze on public services, reduced workers rights, rise of zero hour contracts....... and we have to face it we havn't done enough to protect the worse off people from all the changes that have happened over the last 20 years.
and becuase of this people all over the world are rebelling cos thier scared.... im scared the way things are going, if their is going to be jobs for me going forward in or out of the EU, and no one is coming up with any ideas of how things are gonna get better for the unskilled workers and working classes round the world.
 
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Nobby style said:
You know, if you think about it, extremist militant Islam, which appears to be one of the biggest, if not thee biggest threat in today´s world, can be traced right back to the front door of the United States policy. They´ve been coddling the Saudi´s for years for their oil, meanwhile casting a blind eye to the hardcore conservative Wahhabism the wealthy Saudi´s have been exporting and generously funding through the Islamic world, the US had a massive hand in meddling in Iranian politics opening the way for their fundamentalist regime and influence, they practically created the Taliban and Osama, no need to mention the ill thought invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and the creation of Isis, and being Israel´s greatest benefactor and supporter has been a huge recruitment factor as well.

You would have to consider this in the OP.
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Any particular reason why you don't mention the contributions of England and France to the current state of things in the ME?
 
Nytram Shakes said:
i think your probably right,

but its even more complicated then that things like this appeal to people who have been neglected or even abused by society, and you look at the country right now and yes London has recovered but so many people havnt seen any recovery since the crash in 2008, and many communities havn't recovered from the decimation of old industries in the 70's and 80's, in fact many areas things are getting worse with increased automation reducing jobs a squeeze on public services, reduced workers rights, rise of zero hour contracts....... and we have to face it we havn't done enough to protect the worse off people from all the changes that have happened over the last 20 years.
and becuase of this people all over the world are rebelling cos thier scared.... im scared the way things are going, if their is going to be jobs for me going forward in or out of the EU, and no one is coming up with any ideas of how things are gonna get better for the unskilled workers and working classes round the world.
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To an extent it's up to people to look after their own futures. Unskilled and working class folks need to develop marketable skills so they can find gainful employment.

Now, for something like the coal industry in the 80s one could argue that the government should fund a good portion of that and I would be inclined to agree.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
Any particular reason why you don't mention the contributions of England and France to the current state of things in the ME?
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Indeed. He completely ignores the British and French roles in drawing the map of the Middle East and many of the problems that has caused... and that goes way farther back than any coddling the United States has done of the House of Saud.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
To an extent it's up to people to look after their own futures. Unskilled and working class folks need to develop marketable skills so they can find gainful employment.

Now, for something like the coal industry in the 80s one could argue that the government should fund a good portion of that and I would be inclined to agree.
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you say that like its easy getting funding for training is hard, advice to kids in school is atrocious, the amount of kids doing media, music, drama..... i did political history what a waste of time that was, the whole education system in this country is just a mess.

also the fact not everyone can be a skilled worker, what does that part of the population do, shud we help support them, shud we just ignore them and say lifes unfair.....

their isn't a simple answer and people are scared, and rightly so! and they acted out just hoping that some change will help.
 
Raoul said:
When I say short term I mean a decade or a decade and a half, which is still quite short when you look at things in 50 to 100 year increments.
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I think Brexit has implications far beyond the 10-15 years! Trump in US, Marine Le Pen in France, Farage in UK... it'd be pointless to ignore the rising support for Far Right. Do you believe that they'll vanish in 10-15 years time? Trump may not be in public eye, but the major change in GOP ideology that he triggered will continue long...same with others.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think Brexit has implications far beyond the 10-15 years! Trump in US, Marine Le Pen in France, Farage in UK... it'd be pointless to ignore the rising support for Far Right. Do you believe that they'll vanish in 10-15 years time? Trump may not be in public eye, but the major change in GOP ideology that he triggered will continue long...same with others.
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That itself is just a subcomponent of something much bigger that will lead to further cooperation. Although it may not materialize for a decade or two.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
you say that like its easy getting funding for training is hard, advice to kids in school is atrocious, the amount of kids doing media, music, drama..... i did political history what a waste of time that was, the whole education system in this country is just a mess.

also the fact not everyone can be a skilled worker, what does that part of the population do, shud we help support them, shud we just ignore them and say lifes unfair.....

their isn't a simple answer and people are scared, and rightly so! and they acted out just hoping that some change will help.
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I've known a number of people who've put themselves through school while working part time, no funding at all. It's not easy but nothing is, no.

Skilled workers come in many forms. Engineers, accountants, plumbers, welders, chefs, teachers, lorry drivers, doctors, etc. Such that I feel that everyone can, indeed, become a skilled worker of some kind.

You're correct about education. It's a mess, almost everywhere. There is a great need to move away from or at least scale back certain subjects and replace them with life skills courses in things like financial literacy, nutrition, and other bits of knowledge that apply to real life instead of lofty ideal cultural shit and certain forms of math.
 
People just fail to see the other side of the coin. One simple example is the internet. That is the result of CIA's and USA military work. Would it be possible if USA did not had such a overblown "defense" budget? Who knows, world contrary to what some people think does not work like "if he would not do it then someone else would have", otherwise everything we have now and more would have been there a millennia ago. There is a time, place and a person for everything.
The other thing is of course whether it's justified to use war power and methods to correct some stuff in other countries. Not really an easy question that. If we do think back to WWII, USA, UK, France did not meddle in Germany's "private", national affairs, they considered Hitler and his politics to be a german matter for german people. And it did not really work that well.
 
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