Two English clubs in the CL. Strongest league in the world innit
Will English teams do well enough in Europe to earn the league a 5th CL place?
- Thread starter sullydnl
- Start date
I hope we lose tonight
United are going to be nowhere near 5th place, so who gives a shit? We don't deserve to be playing any form of European football next season, and I'm delighted these players won't be getting any CL pay increase either. feck em.
To be fair, for quite some time this season you were even leading that table, I believe even after matchday four. The amount of qualification playoffs your teams had to play really helped (same for Turkey, who dropped off even more by now)
Italian clubs famously don’t care about EL etc. they’ll drop in few ties time
Liverpool is already safe as group winner
West Ham - Freiburg is a fight for winning the group
Brighton - Marseille is as well
Aston Villa needs a point in Mostar to win the group ahead of Warsaw
Group winners doesn't have to play in the playoffs and get points as if they won both legs of the playoffs for the coefficient, so three important matches for the PL today.
I thought Europa games don't count for the getting the 5th spot
Every European match counts for the country coefficient - Champions League, Europa League, Conference League as well as all the qualifying playoffs for these tournaments.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, the bonus points are different for qualifying for and passing through the stages, CL gives the most here.
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Why should English clubs worry about doing well when they have so much contempt for European competition (well, most of the top club's fans anyway). I will never in a million years understand the disrespect for the Europa League. This year in particular, it's just as strong as the Champions League.
I think Spain will overtake England though. All four Spanish teams are through in the Champions League as group winners. Villarreal through in the Europa League and Betis likely to go through also.
By the end of the season I think Spain and England will be first and second.
Nah, they care now. They just not very good though
The ranking tonight:
Belgium with 3 out of 5 teams remaining in Europe ahead of France with 6 out of 6?
Make it make sense. In all 3 competitions the average Belgian side did worse than the average French team. I'm confused! What sort of system are they using to determine performance?
CL:
France: PSG, 2nd in group, Lens 3rd (drop to Europa).
Average position = 2.5.
Belgium: Antwerp 4th - out
Average position = 4th
Europa:
France: Marseille 2nd, Toulouse 2nd, Rennes 2nd.
Average position = 2nd
Belgium: USG 3rd - drop to conference league
Average position = 3rd
Conference League:
France: Lille 1st
Average position = 1st
Belgium: Brugge 1st, Gent 2nd, Genk 3rd - out
Average position = 2nd
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No, they didn't... Not if you include the long qualifiers (Belgium has a total of 14 wins + 7 draws in the qualifiers).. And Belgium is only marginally ahead. They will of course be behind France by the next round.
France is, alongside Italy, 1 of only 2 countries to still have all its clubs still in one of the 3 competitions. At this point last year England and Italy were the only countries to do it, and they ended the season way ahead of the others. I think Italy will see 3 clubs in tough draws in the UCL. France has better chances at keeping more clubs deeper in all competitions.
They just add wins and draws up then divide it by the number of teams in European competition, including qualifying rounds? Obviously I didn't know that judging from my question, and I can't help but think that's exceptionally flawed.
How far the teams actually progress in the competition on average would seem like the obvious way to determine performance.
The top two countries at the end of the season.
Thanks.
Yeah and no… Wins and draws in qualifiers are worth half the points… Participating in the CL group stage is worth a bonus of 4 points for each club. So for exemple Lens being automatically in the GS grants them and France a bonus of 4 points right at the start. That’s worth 4 wins in the qualifiers. The system generally balances things out as the season goes.
The clubs from the top leagues have less qualifiers to gather points from but they have more teams guaranteed GS football.
You get more points the further you get into the competition. So a first qualifying round win isn't worth anything compared to a CL final win.
Those points are averaged across the number of teams though. So a CL final win for an English team would be averaged across 8 teams and yield less than a German or Italian win that's only averaged across seven teams.
The system is tailored to the big competitions, this is the bone we've been thrown, let us chew on it.
Which also seems fair enough to me.
That's making more sense to me now from a logical point of view.
Just to check though, if all Belgian and French teams went out in the next round, losing both legs of their knockout rounds (I don't know if that's a factor), would Belgium be ahead still?
If so, I think it's a bit weird in one as they didn't get as far as the French on average in terms of how close each side was to the final etc. In another way I suppose they relatively speaking did better than the French compared to where they were supposed to get to taking into consideration the seedings as some (or more) of the clubs played qualifiers.
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At least we did our part by losing the games we could afford to lose. Worried our eventual trophy win might put England in the top two though.
Will surely be different when City piss the CL, Liverpool the Europa and Villa the Conference.
Yes, what B20 says is the most important piece.
The season association club coefficient are based on points obtained by all its clubs in a given season in the UEFA Champions League (UCL), UEFA Europa League (UEL) and UEFA Europa Conference League (UECL).
The coefficient is calculated by working out an average score: dividing the number of points obtained, by the total number of clubs representing an association in that season's club competitions.
Points system
Points are awarded as follows for UCL, UEL, UECL (except knockout round play-offs)
2 - points awarded for a win;
1 - point awarded for a draw;
0 - points awarded for a defeat.
1 – All wins in qualifying and play-off matches (UCL, UEL, UECL)
Bonus Points
4 – Group stage bonus participation (UCL)
4 – Round of 16 bonus participation (UCL)
4 – Group winners (UEL)
2 – Group runners-up (UEL)
2 – Group winners (UECL)
1 – Group runners-up (UECL)
1 – Each round clubs reach from the round of 16 (UCL, UEL)
1 – Each round clubs reach from the semi-finals (UECL)
The season association club coefficient are based on points obtained by all its clubs in a given season in the UEFA Champions League (UCL), UEFA Europa League (UEL) and UEFA Europa Conference League (UECL).
The coefficient is calculated by working out an average score: dividing the number of points obtained, by the total number of clubs representing an association in that season's club competitions.
Points system
Points are awarded as follows for UCL, UEL, UECL (except knockout round play-offs)
2 - points awarded for a win;
1 - point awarded for a draw;
0 - points awarded for a defeat.
1 – All wins in qualifying and play-off matches (UCL, UEL, UECL)
Bonus Points
4 – Group stage bonus participation (UCL)
4 – Round of 16 bonus participation (UCL)
4 – Group winners (UEL)
2 – Group runners-up (UEL)
2 – Group winners (UECL)
1 – Group runners-up (UECL)
1 – Each round clubs reach from the round of 16 (UCL, UEL)
1 – Each round clubs reach from the semi-finals (UECL)
Opta thinks Spain and France are almost out of the race for the second place... And that England first is no longer as sure as it was before.
How is this going then?
As good as done. Italy and Germany taking the extra spot.
Serie A has now GUARANTEED 5 spots for next season in the Champions League, with the potential of SIX, if Atalanta wins the Europa League and finishes either 5th or 6th in the league (they're currently 5th)
Bad QF draws…
This is how it looked yesterday before the second legs of EL and ECL… it probably got worse now, maybe with France heading to finish third ahead of England…
On the bright side, at least we're so useless that the coefficient won't affect us. One thing to be less angry about
Getting the additional CL spot or not also decides which league position gets you into EL or ECL, so it's relevant down to 8th in the PL table.
Gonna be weird having so many Italian teams in the CL again. Specially if Bologna ends up there too.
Looking at that table, the dropoff in La Liga has been insane. They had a long period of domination in Europe that has truly come to an end for now.
Looking at that table, the dropoff in La Liga has been insane. They had a long period of domination in Europe that has truly come to an end for now.
Who cares we aren’t getting 5th.
Italy in, germany needs 3 points, or for villa to get less than 5 points
Basically it's almost done
Basically it's almost done
The answer to this was obviously no. Since there’s only 1 left. City and Liverpool probably screwed up so they didn’t give us a chance of being in it next year. (Not that we would have been anyway) I’ve noticed the other countries are trying harder though.
To be fair though it’s only ever Real Madrid that do well in Europe from there league anyway. Barca use to under pep and when they had Messi etc. they usually have teams doing alright in the Europa, like Sevilla/Villareal.