Will English teams do well enough in Europe to earn the league a 5th CL place?

[Andersonson]

They added 4 spots. 2 places going to the best performing leagues of each season (This could have been anyone, it doesn't have to be a top league). The others:

Slot three: This place will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the access list (France), which is determined by the five-year UEFA association club coefficient ranking up to the end of the 2022/23 season.

This means France (or whoever is fifth) will have 3+1 instead of 2+1 previously. But the +1 is now obliged to go through qualifiers each year, in the old system the +1 could go directly to group stage as EL TH replacement, when the titleholder of the EL doesn't need their spot. Which happened last in 2019 with Lyon going directly into the GS (and ultimately reaching the semifinals of the CL).

Slot four: This spot will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the champions path of the competition's qualifying process, which will consist of three qualifying rounds and the play-offs.

Only the fourth spot is awarded to smaller leagues via the Champions path.

Which is even more laughable. The advantages for the top leagues will only get bigger and bigger. Champions League will have 64 teams soon with 8 actual Champions around Europe

 

[kaiser1]

How are we doing here

 

[Andy_Cole]

How are we doing here

It’s done apparently. Italians and Germans get it.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Dortmund's win tonight means Germany get the 2nd bonus place with Italy getting the first.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

It's OVER

 

[always_hoping]

It's OVER

Good Tottenham didn't deserve Champions league football. Can someone remind me is 6th good enough for Europa league spot?

 

[Pintu]

Good Tottenham didn't deserve Champions league football. Can someone remind me is 6th good enough for Europa league spot?

Yes, unless we win the FA Cup and finish below 6th. In that case, we get Europa league and the club in 6th play Conference League.

 

[Insanity]

Watch us finish 5th now.

 

[kaiser1]

This is bad news for Arsenal as Spurs now have no need to fight for 5th place against City

 

[jadajos]

This is bad news for Arsenal as Spurs now have no need to fight for 4th place against City

Why would they not fight for 4th place now that their current 5th is certain not to give them CL?

 

[E-mal]

This is bad news for Arsenal as Spurs now have no need to fight for 4th place against City

???

 

[gajender]

This is bad news for Arsenal as Spurs now have no need to fight for 4th place against City

As things stand they are still in contention to qualify for Champions league even assuming by the time City fixture comes around they aren't , Tottenham might still need points to qualify for Europa which may not bring riches of Champions league but could still allow decent earning potential if Club go deep into the competition due to gate receipts and also the prize money .

So no I don't see that game as free hit for City at all .

 

[Ludens the Red]

Took great satisfaction in England failing to get that 5th spot. Purely down to the arrogance of English pundits who were discussing the spot early in the season as if it was a sure fire thing. Like I get they all need to hype the PL product but it’s slowly becoming a bit tedious. The disrespect for other leagues is insane. English teams record in Europe is nowhere near as good as it’s made out to be and it’s a far more even playing field.

 

[AdamColeBebe]

This is bad news for Arsenal as Spurs now have no need to fight for 4th place against City

Eh? Do you mean Spurs think they are too far behind to even bother?

Spurs have two games in hand on Villa.

 

[kaiser1]

Why would they not fight for 4th place now that their current 5th is certain not to give them CL?

I meant 5th spot, and chance to play in the CL. by the time the Spurs vs City game comes around they might not have a chance to make top 4 anymore and 5th does not make the CL

 

[kaiser1]

Eh? Do you mean Spurs think they are too far behind to even bother?

Spurs have two games in hand on Villa.

Yeah thats what I meant. They play City in 37th game by that time 4th might be out of reach and 5th does not guaranty CL football

 

[thisisnottaken1]

This means that Ten Hag should be sacked as at the weekend, it was confirmed that we can finish no higher than 5th.

 

[AdamColeBebe]

Yeah thats what I meant. They play City in 37th game by that time 4th might be out of reach and 5th does not guaranty CL football

I get what you mean, but no way are they going to give up until it's mathematically impossible

 

[Zehner]

On a sidenote, aren't you guys annoyed that you always have teams with games in hand? Seems to have become the norm in the EPL but it kind of kills the tension, IMO.

 

[kaiser1]

On a sidenote, aren't you guys annoyed that you always have teams with games in hand? Seems to have become the norm in the EPL but it kind of kills the tension, IMO.

I think things like Having 2 domestic cup competitions which clog the calendar and occupy most midweeks, domestic Cup replays (which is being abolished), Travels for (CWC) and no winter breaks contribute to that

 

[duffer]

Is this the worst showing English sides have had in Europe for some time?

 

[stefan92]

Is this the worst showing English sides have had in Europe for some time?

Yes:

#		country	19/20	20/21	21/22	22/23	23/24	ranking	teams
1		England	18.571	24.357	21.000	23.000	17.375	104.303	1/ 8

19/20 was similarly bad, but still slightly better (even when Villa win the ECL). The last three seasons where considerably stronger.

 

[always_hoping]

Took great satisfaction in England failing to get that 5th spot. Purely down to the arrogance of English pundits who were discussing the spot early in the season as if it was a sure fire thing. Like I get they all need to hype the PL product but it’s slowly becoming a bit tedious. The disrespect for other leagues is insane. English teams record in Europe is nowhere near as good as it’s made out to be and it’s a far more even playing field.

The arrogant and annoying English pundits, journalists is tedious. Whatever hype they try to use it's now official that the Premier League is not the best league in the world.

 

[Zehner]

I think things like Having 2 domestic cup competitions which clog the calendar and occupy most midweeks, domestic Cup replays (which is being abolished), Travels for (CWC) and no winter breaks contribute to that

Yeah I know but the result still is a bit anticlimactic. You always have to use the subjunctive when speaking about title races. Teams aren't neck to neck, they will be neck to neck if XYZ happens

 

[Red Royal]

The arrogant and annoying English pundits, journalists is tedious. Whatever hype they try to use it's now official that the Premier League is not the best league in the world.

The EPL is the richest, probably has the best club (115 charges) and it may be more competitive all the way down to relegation spots, however Spanish and German top 6 are definitely a match for out top 6.

 

[Chipper]

Yeah I know but the result still is a bit anticlimactic. You always have to use the subjunctive when speaking about title races. Teams aren't neck to neck, they will be neck to neck if XYZ happens

Depends which way it goes. "Team A is 5 points behind with 2 games in hand" is certainly more fun than if they'd have played them much earlier in the season and lost both. Of course, they could have played those games and won them too in a universe with no games in hand, which would make things more exciting.

Overall I do like the "what if?" element of it all, the little uncertainty it brings.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

PL is the best league in the world.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Is this the worst showing English sides have had in Europe for some time?

It's kind of all on us and Newcastle in reality. Can't remember the last time 2 PL teams, admittedly not great ones, went out bottom of their groups missing out on Europa completely.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

This is bad news for Arsenal as Spurs now have no need to fight for 4th place against City

It makes no difference to the title race to be honest. I can't see City drop any points in the remaining fixtures.

 

[Alex99]

It's kind of all on us and Newcastle in reality. Can't remember the last time 2 PL teams, admittedly not great ones, went out bottom of their groups missing out on Europa completely.

After a quick look, City in 2012/13 were the last English side to crash out completely in the group stage, then before that it was us in 2005/06. I can't see that we've ever had two PL teams knocked out in that manner in the same season. This is also the first season since 2014/15 that no English side has appeared in at least the semi-finals of either the CL or Europa, which is another strong contender for worst showing by English sides.

Liverpool third in their CL group behind Basel, then eliminated by Besiktas in the first Europa knockout (where Spurs were also eliminated by Fiorentina), and Arsenal, Chelsea and City were all eliminated in the first CL knockout (by Monaco, PSG and Barcelona, respectively). Everton were the only English side to progress through a knockout round, but they were knocked out in the Europa last 16. The only other European representative were Hull, who didn't make it through the Europa qualifiers.

 

[georgegroves]

On a sidenote, aren't you guys annoyed that you always have teams with games in hand? Seems to have become the norm in the EPL but it kind of kills the tension, IMO.

I actually had no idea that games in hand was just a premier league thing. Howcome its not a thing in germany? You still have DFB pokal and CL right? But to answer your question yes i completely agree with you, sometimes in a title race a team can have 2 or 3 games in hand on you or vice versa, and it certainly adds psychological pressure for the team chasing if you already so many points ahead while they haven’t even played a game yet. Alot of title races are surely decided by who gets blessed with the fixture list and games in hand etc

 

[stefan92]

Howcome its not a thing in germany? You still have DFB pokal and CL right?

Overall it's still fewer games, as the league is smaller and we only have the DFB Pokal as a national cup, while England still has two national cups (and in the FA Cup so far even replays after a draw). So there never is the need to postpone single matches based on national or European schedule. Only exception was the Club World Cup, if a German team wins the CL, but that's obviously rare and even then there are enough midweek dates free that can be used to quickly play those matches. Similar if it happens that bad weather/snowfall causes a match to be postponed.

So it is a thing in Germany as well, but much rarer and usually much faster rectified.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Which is even more laughable. The advantages for the top leagues will only get bigger and bigger. Champions League will have 64 teams soon with 8 actual Champions around Europe

The English Championship doesn't even have any champions!

 

[giorno]

I actually had no idea that games in hand was just a premier league thing. Howcome its not a thing in germany? You still have DFB pokal and CL right? But to answer your question yes i completely agree with you, sometimes in a title race a team can have 2 or 3 games in hand on you or vice versa, and it certainly adds psychological pressure for the team chasing if you already so many points ahead while they haven’t even played a game yet. Alot of title races are surely decided by who gets blessed with the fixture list and games in hand etc

The FA Cup is unique, as the oldest tournament in the sport it matters in a way its equivalent in other countries just doesn't. England actually stops the league to play the FA Cup, and aside from replays the games are played on weekends, hence the league games getting postponed and the uneven number of games played across the league. Every other country plays its cup games midweek, where they don't interfere with the league, with the possible exception of finals - but they stop the whole league when they do, like they did in Spain this season. Because the league matters, while the cups are there to give hope to the peasants - except Italy who don't even do that, not having an FA Cup at all, so the peasants are actually just second division sides and the cup is about giving those mid-sized clubs, the ones that can never win the league, something to play for

Then there's the league cup as well whose final also interferes