Will David De Gea break Alex Stepney's record for club appearances?

[Red the Bear]

He could have had 3 ucl titles had he gone of that summer so I really hope we somehow make up for but that seems less unlikely as time goes on.

The fact that he rebounded after that Europe league mess and the dearedful few seasons that he had says a lot about his fortitude, definitely one of the few if any bright spots that we've had through these bleak years.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's been consistently one of, if not the, best player post SAF.

Our goalkeeper winning player of the season so often is emblematic of our decline.

 

[Devil_forever]

What's better for the team is to have a goalkeeper that can organize and control his defence, claim high balls, who is comfortable leaving his goal area to sweep, recieve and pass the ball.

Instead what we have is a guy who sticks to his line to make saves, which he is really good at. But he doesn't communicate with his defence, shouts away at balls dropping 3 yards from him and retreats to the safety of his line by default. Also doesn't really sweep and is not comfortable receiving, controlling or passing the ball around the back. Not to mention his mid and long range kicking is pretty awful.

When DDG, is finally replaced by a keeper who can do all those things. People will finally realise how much of a hindrance he actually is to the team.

This. THIS. THIS. Making hollywood saves masks all of the flaws to the average fan.

 

[ericthered76]

Big Dave is a proper G, after his second D.

Legend.

 

[harms]

Speaking of coincidences, I think people also believe that it's a coincidence that almost every defender at the club over the past 10 years has turned to shit in front of him despite being perfectly competent prior to joining the club, after they have left and whilst with their national sides.

Nice. We have finally found the culprit!

 

[Member 117152]

De Gea is a United legend. Glad that fax machine broke down.

 

[Champ]

Absolute legend.

For those saying his saves masks his flaws....the fact he's been in the PFA team of the year so many times kind of puts that opinion to bed.

He was the best in the world for 2 seasons, and still is one of the best around.

Hope he breaks the record.

 

[Kostov]

Speaking of coincidences, I think people also believe that it's a coincidence that almost every defender at the club over the past 10 years has turned to shit in front of him despite being perfectly competent prior to joining the club, after they have left and whilst with their national sides.

What the feck are you on about? Can you please write that exceptional list here and read it once or two times yourself?

 

[Longshanks]

Absolute legend.

For those saying his saves masks his flaws....the fact he's been in the PFA team of the year so many times kind of puts that opinion to bed.

He was the best in the world for 2 seasons, and still is one of the best around.

Hope he breaks the record.

The thing is his shot stopping has returned to his normal levels which as we know is very good.

But its the other parts of his game that have regressed to a point where they are now hindering the team massively. When he has won the player of the year award, those parts of his game were still ok (not amazing, never have been) but they were passable. They are now not even close to being passable.

You can only judge a player on what you see infront of you now, not there past glories. What I see is an excellent shot stopper, who doesn't command, doesn't sweep,dosent organise, is something of a coward and has well below average distribution. Nowhere near good enough anymore for a side with our aspirations.

 

[AndySmith1990]

He's the least of our worries right now, and there are far more pressing issues to address in the team. Henderson wants out and he's not as good as De Gea anyway. Therefore there's no reason to replace him and he'll comfortably break that record.

 

[Red_toad]

Speaking of coincidences, I think people also believe that it's a coincidence that almost every defender at the club over the past 10 years has turned to shit in front of him despite being perfectly competent prior to joining the club, after they have left and whilst with their national sides.

Pure coincidence

 

[Negative Red]

I must admit, I was in the give Henderson a run in the team fanclub last year but De Gea has proved all the doubters wrong this season. Some final league positions could've been embarrassing over the last few years had it not been for De Gea, who has won us so many points. Already this season David has made more saves than any over keeper in the league (which probably says more for our defending)..a lot of short/selective memories here.

Go on Dave!

 

[Champ]

The thing is his shot stopping has returned to his normal levels which as we know is very good.

But its the other parts of his game that have regressed to a point where they are now hindering the team massively. When he has won the player of the year award, those parts of his game were still ok (not amazing, never have been) but they were passable. They are now not even close to being passable.

You can only judge a player on what you see infront of you now, not there past glories. What I see is an excellent shot stopper, who doesn't command, doesn't sweep,dosent organise, is something of a coward and has well below average distribution. Nowhere near good enough anymore for a side with our aspirations.

And that's where we will have to agree to disagree.

I see DDG as still one of the best in the business, he doesn't command the box like Ederson does perhaps, but that certainly doesn't mean he's a hindrance to the team.

There's more than one way to play a position.

 

[daveskimufc]

Feel bad for him. Feel he would have been a great of the game if he had played for a decent team. Aside from the 18 months of poor form, he has been fantastic and always reliable.

we just aren’t good enough outfield and haven’t been post fergie

 

[JB7]

And that's where we will have to agree to disagree.

I see DDG as still one of the best in the business, he doesn't command the box like Ederson does perhaps, but that certainly doesn't mean he's a hindrance to the team.

There's more than one way to play a position.

You are correct here, there is more than one way to play position. However the critical aspect is that way of playing the position needs to compliment the rest of the team.

For example, if we were a team that aimed to put 50 crosses into the box a game but our centre forward constantly held a position outside the penalty area would you be making that argument? Of course not, because it obviously wouldn't compliment the team.

Much in the same way that having a goalkeeper who hates leaving his 6 yard box is not complimentary to a team that wants to play the game in the opponents half of the pitch. If we still defended with 8 players like we did under Mourinho, his limitations would be less of an issue because there would be more players back to a) stop the cross and b) deal with the crosses into the box.

As it is, we have signed offensive minded players and as such we are more open to being counter attacked upon, which is where him needing to sweep a lot more than he does comes in. Also, there are less players back in defensive positions when balls come into the box and as such you need a more commanding presence to help out of the defenders because the centre backs tend to just get left alone to deal with them. In addition to this, we have been signing defenders such as Maguire, Varane, Lindelof who are used to playing in front of dominant goalkeepers and instinctively they look to the goalkeeper, it is there for all to see. There is a clear disconnect in styles and ultimately yes, it is a hindrance to the team.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Even Stepney himself won relatively little compared to the likes of Schmeichel and Van Der Sar. One European Cup, one first division title, one FA Cup, two charity shields I think. It's funny how much of our success is compressed into relatively tight time periods.

Also, this is really an outlier, most players won a trophy or a league. Very few players end up winning ten, fifteen trophies.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

This. THIS. THIS. Making hollywood saves masks all of the flaws to the average fan.

I don't think you know what Hollywood saves mean.

 

[Oranges038]

You are correct here, there is more than one way to play position. However the critical aspect is that way of playing the position needs to compliment the rest of the team.

For example, if we were a team that aimed to put 50 crosses into the box a game but our centre forward constantly held a position outside the penalty area would you be making that argument? Of course not, because it obviously wouldn't compliment the team.

Much in the same way that having a goalkeeper who hates leaving his 6 yard box is not complimentary to a team that wants to play the game in the opponents half of the pitch. If we still defended with 8 players like we did under Mourinho, his limitations would be less of an issue because there would be more players back to a) stop the cross and b) deal with the crosses into the box.

As it is, we have signed offensive minded players and as such we are more open to being counter attacked upon, which is where him needing to sweep a lot more than he does comes in. Also, there are less players back in defensive positions when balls come into the box and as such you need a more commanding presence to help out of the defenders because the centre backs tend to just get left alone to deal with them. In addition to this, we have been signing defenders such as Maguire, Varane, Lindelof who are used to playing in front of dominant goalkeepers and instinctively they look to the goalkeeper, it is there for all to see. There is a clear disconnect in styles and ultimately yes, it is a hindrance to the team.

Plus if there is going to be switch to a higher press as is expected, then having a keeper who plays in such a way that it sucks the whole team back 20 yards is wrong. It's one of the reasons this Utd side end up defending on the 18 yard line a lot. There's no way you can press high and play a high line with defenders 40 yards out and this guy still standing on his six.

The higher up you win the ball the better chance you have of converting turnovers into chances.

Also when it comes to claims in and around the box, if players are confident he's going to claim it they can position themselves to be primed for a counter from a quick throw or pass out. What usually happens is that a ball goes it and it ends up being defenders scrambling to clear it, resulting in a corner or the ball being gucen straight back to the opposition to attack again.

Goalkeeper has to suit the style of the team. His style is totally at odds with that of a team that wants to play on the offensive and dominate games.

 

[Champ]

You are correct here, there is more than one way to play position. However the critical aspect is that way of playing the position needs to compliment the rest of the team.

For example, if we were a team that aimed to put 50 crosses into the box a game but our centre forward constantly held a position outside the penalty area would you be making that argument? Of course not, because it obviously wouldn't compliment the team.

Much in the same way that having a goalkeeper who hates leaving his 6 yard box is not complimentary to a team that wants to play the game in the opponents half of the pitch. If we still defended with 8 players like we did under Mourinho, his limitations would be less of an issue because there would be more players back to a) stop the cross and b) deal with the crosses into the box.

As it is, we have signed offensive minded players and as such we are more open to being counter attacked upon, which is where him needing to sweep a lot more than he does comes in. Also, there are less players back in defensive positions when balls come into the box and as such you need a more commanding presence to help out of the defenders because the centre backs tend to just get left alone to deal with them. In addition to this, we have been signing defenders such as Maguire, Varane, Lindelof who are used to playing in front of dominant goalkeepers and instinctively they look to the goalkeeper, it is there for all to see. There is a clear disconnect in styles and ultimately yes, it is a hindrance to the team.

Again, completely disagree.

How may goals have we conceded from a ball over the top into space where DDG should have been sweeping? I can't think of one off the top of my head.

It's strange isn't it how multiple managers at the club have been more than happy with DDG, despite apparently being a hindrance to the team!
I mean, RR said this the other day comparing Neuer to DDG:




"They are both in a fantastic shape, physically and, as well as on the line, when it’s about controlling the box, David De Gea is probably one of the best, if not the best, in the world"

Granted RR isn't going to call DDG crap, but that's quite effusive praise especially on an area of his game that apparently is a hindrance to the team!!

 

[Longshanks]

Again, completely disagree.

How may goals have we conceded from a ball over the top into space where DDG should have been sweeping? I can't think of one off the top of my head.

It's strange isn't it how multiple managers at the club have been more than happy with DDG, despite apparently being a hindrance to the team!
I mean, RR said this the other day comparing Neuer to DDG:




"They are both in a fantastic shape, physically and, as well as on the line, when it’s about controlling the box, David De Gea is probably one of the best, if not the best, in the world"

Granted RR isn't going to call DDG crap, but that's quite effusive praise especially on an area of his game that apparently is a hindrance to the team!!

We don't concede those goals because we don't play the high line, because de gea won't sweep behind it. More often than not if a ball goes over or between the defensive line its the defenders that have it deal with it which quite often leads to a period of concerted pressure and quite often a chance for the opposition and ultimately results in us losing control of the match.

Watch City/liverpool/Chelsea they hold there high line compressing the space infront making themselves very difficult to play through, if the ball goes over the top more often than not the goalkeeper will be the one to deal with it, that whats gives the confidence to the defenders to hold there line. Then watch us and watch how the defenders retreat leaving more space infront making us much easier to play through and we retreat because de gea won't sweep, he wants his defenders much closer to him which means we can't hold a high line, and no defender is really gonna have the confidence to hold that line with de gea behind them. Because they know anything over the top they are going to be sprinting back to deal with.

 

[Champ]

We don't concede those goals because we don't play the high line, because de gea won't sweep behind it. More often than not if a ball goes over or between the defensive line its the defenders that have it deal with it which quite often leads to a period of concerted pressure and quite often a chance for the opposition and ultimately results in us losing control of the match.

Watch City/liverpool/Chelsea they hold there high line compressing the space infront making themselves very difficult to play through, if the ball goes over the top more often than not the goalkeeper will be the one to deal with it, that whats gives the confidence to the defenders to hold there line. Then watch us and watch how the defenders retreat leaving more space infront making us much easier to play through and we retreat because de gea won't sweep, he wants his defenders much closer to him which means we can't hold a high line, and no defender is really gonna have the confidence to hold that line with de gea behind them. Because they know anything over the top they are going to be sprinting back to deal with.

Again, I disagree.

We often play a high line, don't confuse a high line with pressing, they are two different entities.

Maguires average position is often very advanced during games, highlighting the high line the back four play.
This is the reason we get beat in the middle, as often the two CMs are ahead of play when the ball is carelessly given away.

 

[dbs235]

He's carried us ever since SAF retired. I'd dread to think where we'd be without him at times. And yes he's gone through poor spells too.

 

[Longshanks]

Again, I disagree.

We often play a high line, don't confuse a high line with pressing, they are two different entities.

Maguires average position is often very advanced during games, highlighting the high line the back four play.
This is the reason we get beat in the middle, as often the two CMs are ahead of play when the ball is carelessly given away.

Yes and when the ball is given away, what's the first thing the defenders do? They retreat rather than come forward to try to win the ball. Creating space infront of them that the opposition can play into allowing the opposition to get players forward to support the attack which then allows the opposition to build an dangerous attack or have a concerted spell of pressure.

There is a difference between having a high line and holding a high line. Our defenders will not hold a high line because they are terrified of the ball over the top and having to sprint back towards there own area because they know that De Gea isn't going to sweep behind them.

 

[Champ]

Yes and when the ball is given away, what's the first thing the defenders do? They retreat rather than come forward to try to win the ball. Creating space infront of them that the opposition can play into allowing the opposition to get players forward to support the attack which then allows the opposition to build an dangerous attack or have a concerted spell of pressure.

There is a difference between having a high line and holding a high line. Our defenders will not hold a high line because they are terrified of the ball over the top and having to sprint back towards there own area because they know that De Gea isn't going to sweep behind them.

That's got little to do with De Gea though?
That's more to do with our tactics, which has been predominantly to retreat into a positional defensive structure rather than press.
Having De Gea on the edge of our box won't change these tactics.

A 'sweeper keeper' if you like, can be taught, it's all about positioning.
DDG has improved his distribution no end this season whereby whilst still not perfect, has actually started a few attacks and build up plays from the back.

Ergo, the opportunity for us to play a keeper as a sweeper is there, we just don't utilize it due to the tactics we play.

I get that you feel we play these tactics because of the keeper, but I do disagree with this notion based on my reasoning above.

 

[Paxi]

Sincerely hope not.

Absolutely agree with this and have done since the day he signed for the club (after a pretty shocking season for Atletico Madrid where he conceded 53 league goals).

It's nothing personal against the lad, it's down to the simple fact that there is much much more to goal-keeping than stopping shots and when it comes to the other aspects of the position he is embarrassingly bad at them.
How anyone can watch a Utd match and not notice the negative impact his flaws have on the team is beyond me, it's blindingly obvious.

Weather you rate Henderson or not (or Romero before him), the fact is that, overall we looked a much much better side when he played and the stats/results back this up.

For further proof of this, look no further than the Spanish National side, they went from being the dominant force in International football before De Gea was their number one to absolute garbage when he was their number one.
Now they've dropped him and their back as one of the top sides again, coincidence? For me, no.

Speaking of coincidences, I think people also believe that it's a coincidence that almost every defender at the club over the past 10 years has turned to shit in front of him despite being perfectly competent prior to joining the club, after they have left and whilst with their national sides.

This. THIS. THIS. Making hollywood saves masks all of the flaws to the average fan.

 

[Alfie092]

He will be our goalkeeper for at least till the end of next season imo as we have more urgent positions to fix.

 

[Pat Cat]

Hopefully not. Like Roy Keane said, he's a horrifically overrated goalkeeper

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Our goalkeeper winning player of the season so often is emblematic of our decline.

Aye, it’s pretty embarrassing for your keeper to be player of the year three years out of four, during a period you’ve not won much.

Ederson has kept a clean sheet in 50% of the games he’s played for City. He’s not Even in the discussion for player of the year.

 

[DepaysCowboyHat]

It will be one of the clubs biggest SHAME when this man walks out the gates with one league title. One of my personal favorites in the modern era.
Fecking love U Dave. (And always believed you'd come back after this terrible form and I knew that you would save the next penalty you'd face after the Villareal final and therefore break the curse)

 

[berbatrick]

There's countless miserable, pointless, games that he's made worth watching, through lvg, through jose, and now this season. hope he gets the record.

 

[NewYorkRed]

When all is said and done, all these people who take shots at Dave right now will miss him so much. He’s one of the top players in the world in his position, and its not exactly easy finding a new number one. Chelsea forked the cash out on Kepa and see how that’s turned out.

Still remember his first year with SAF. Crazy how long its been and that he’s still so young ! I hope he breaks the record and wins a couple more leagues while he’s at it.

#DaveSaves

 

[PoTMS]

He's not perfect and definitely has flaws that need addressing but he's the least of our problems right now. I can think of about 5 positions that need sorting out before keeper. Not to mention he's saved us countless times this season.

 

[meamth]

18 shut outs away from Schmeichel's 180.

He will be the highest in the United GK rank, wish he has more titles to his name..

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

18 shut outs away from Schmeichel's 180.

He will be the highest in the United GK rank, wish he has more titles to his name..

Agree. The teams he has played in during his tenure here have not been as dominant as the teams that dominated English football before that.

Regarding the Schmeichel comparison, it's worth noting that Schmeichel only played 8 seasons at United. 5 League, 2 doubles, and culminated in the treble that he won as Captain. De Gea Will have more clean sheets when it's all said and done, but it will have taken him a lot longer.

 

[Welbeckham]

Get a more active, commanding sweeper keeper with better football intelligence and we’ll be a better team. Simple as that.

 

[sullydnl]

522nd appearance today I think? Stepney is on 539. So 18 appearances to beat that record.

Assuming he plays all 14 remaining league games, just four more cup appearances needed beyond that.

Once he becomes the goalkeeper with the most appearances, Rooney and Neville will be next ahead of him on the all time list with 19 and 22 more apperances at that point.

 

[TMDaines]

Once he becomes the goalkeeper with the most appearances, Rooney and Neville will be next ahead of him on the all time list with 19 and 22 more apperances at that point.

At that point he’d be the turd you cannot flush. Got to move on this summer.

 

[sullydnl]

At that point he’d be the turd you cannot flush. Got to move on this summer.

If he was going to leave then bowing out with that record and a trophy or two would be a nice, graceful exit.

Most recent reports were that his contract talks were advancing though. If he gets that contract then he almost certainly would overtake those two and break into our top five all time list. Just behind Foulkes, Scholes, Charlton and Giggs. Heady company.

 

[VeevaVee]

At that point he’d be the turd you cannot flush. Got to move on this summer.

 

[TMDaines]

He’s so obviously a square peg in a round hole in this system. His distribution again tonight hamstrung us and nearly cost us the tie completely first half. His shot stopping is no longer consistently good enough to be a trade off either.