It's about what he's worth to Palace. Whether or not he does well at a bigger club, etc is pointless. It's a joke of an offer.
Wilfried Zaha
- Thread starter Cheekiey
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
He was sixty and hadn't just signed a new contract at the club. He wasn't player of the year when he was sold either.
Regardless, Arsenal know Palace have set a price and just lost one of their biggest talents, so offering less than half of that price is a weird way to start negotiations.
Just doesn't seem like a serious bid to me at all. Zaha could be the difference between getting relegated or not for Palace next season, he's their star man. They pocket 32m from a 40m sale.
Could get ugly between Zaha and Palace this summer...
Would not be surprised if Ole moves for him in the last weeks of the transfer window if the arsenal move doesn't materialize.
Would not be surprised if Ole moves for him in the last weeks of the transfer window if the arsenal move doesn't materialize.
Agree, that's what Mané went for 2 years ago and he was performing better and 1 year younger. What would be insulting would be having him go on strike Barca style to force them to sell if they don't want to.
The problem nowadays is that players are often more valuable to the smaller clubs they play for than to potential buyers. That will lead to players like Zaha being stuck at clubs like Crystal Palace. You may argue he could be worth £80m to Palace but he's very unlikely to be worth that much for Arsenal, and if there aren't any other club bidding higher than Arsenal there isn't any argument for Zaha's objective value to be £80m.
He wasn't. Mane for Southampton was on pretty much the exact same level as Zaha is at Palace, very similar statistically whilst Zaha is far more of a creative hub for Palace - winning so many penalties etc. Mane made the step up and is obviously the much better player now, but at Southampton he really wasn't out-performing what Zaha is doing at Palace. And yeah, football has changed in those two years so prices have moved up .. that's not 'football going mad' that's just the changing shape of the game with teams like Palace having more and more money through tv deals etc.
Doesn't really matter what his objective value is, Arsenal know the price and offering 40 is an insulting way to start business. We're talking about a player who just signed a big new contract, so it's not like Palace have forced him there against his will, they hold the cards and if Arsenal want to do business they should probably start being serious.
So what do you reckon Arsenal should do? Bid 100m to start?
60m would have been a fair offer.
Your lot offering stupidly low bids for players is a theme this window. Already probably pissed off Celtic with that stupid 15m offer for Tierney, reminds me of when Levy used to do the same.
If we're comparing Mane with Zaha.
Mane was 24 when he moved from Southampton to Liverpool. Zaha's nearly 27. In Mane's two seasons at Southampton, aged 23 and 24, he contributed to 46 goals in 83 games (56% of all games). In Zaha's previous two seasons at Palace, aged 25 and 26, he contributed to 34 in 65 (52% of all games). So Mane was performing better at a younger age, while Zaha is probably past his peak years or under-performing while they're happening.
It makes sense for Arsenal to do this on paper, it makes sense for Zaha to make the step up, but this doesn't feel right.
Mane was 24 when he moved from Southampton to Liverpool. Zaha's nearly 27. In Mane's two seasons at Southampton, aged 23 and 24, he contributed to 46 goals in 83 games (56% of all games). In Zaha's previous two seasons at Palace, aged 25 and 26, he contributed to 34 in 65 (52% of all games). So Mane was performing better at a younger age, while Zaha is probably past his peak years or under-performing while they're happening.
It makes sense for Arsenal to do this on paper, it makes sense for Zaha to make the step up, but this doesn't feel right.
It is a bit annoying from a fan's perspective but I can see why the club does it, at the same time. I think 60m would be a good final offer, not a starting one
Why do you think the club does it? To piss off Palace? They wont accept less money in the end because you made a derisory offer. They just sold a less important player for 45-50m. It's not a sound tactic.
Arsenal are such a funny club. We secured AWB for 50 million and they offer 40 for their best player who also signed a 5 yr contract just last year. If you guys think we are frustrating when it comes to transfers we really have nothing on Arsenal.
Need them to sign him for 100 so we get our 20%!!!
Need them to sign him for 100 so we get our 20%!!!
I can't. Regardless of what people think he's worth objectively, 40m isn't even an offer they'd remotely consider.
Long contract, that 20% sell on clause, the money in the bank from AWB/the fact they just sold another star .. the fact is that Arsenal should be looking at another target if their valuation doesn't remotely match Palace's.
Whether or not he's worth 80m, that's the pricetag. Pissing around with stupid bids that are likely just to piss Palace off just seems a waste of time to me. He's the star at the club and they just sold a young right back for getting on for 50 mill.
If the selling club puts a crazy price tag you have the right to lowball your first offer to call their BS. Palace did the same with AWB parading £80m valuations, if Utd respected that and didn't offer about 30m (what you would surely call insulting) in the first place they would never have got an acceptable deal.
I don't understand.. do people not understand the basics of football?
AWB is 21. Zaha wasn't Palaces star players last season, AWB was. You're signing a RB for £50m who is British, who could potentially play at a top level for the next 10 years, and who could become one of the best in his position in the world. If you wanted to sell him in 5 years, you could probably get a profit based on transfer inflation, and if he keeps progressing (no guarentees but he looks like he has the tools).
Then you have Zaha, who is a player who's been playing since a young age, and who didn't make the cut when he moved to a big club. He's a risky player, who has potential to be a very good, but not world class, winger. Equally, he could only be suited to counter attacking teams not possession heavy teams which is the risk. He also wants to leave Palace, notably for Arsenal. He also has no resale value at all, because in 4-5 years, he will not be anywhere near as good as he is now. He has never produced remarkable numbers in terms of end product, and went off the boil towards the 2nd half of the season.
Wan Bissaka and Zaha are nowhere near comparable in terms of expected fees, it's a silly argument and comparison to make.
I think £40m is a fair opening offer. You never open negotiations with your final bid, and to be honest, he isn't worth more than £60m considering everything said above.
The final offer will most likely be £35-40m and Chambers (and a player on loan/nketiah/smith rowe), which in theory could mean only about £9-10m goes to United.
AWB is 21. Zaha wasn't Palaces star players last season, AWB was. You're signing a RB for £50m who is British, who could potentially play at a top level for the next 10 years, and who could become one of the best in his position in the world. If you wanted to sell him in 5 years, you could probably get a profit based on transfer inflation, and if he keeps progressing (no guarentees but he looks like he has the tools).
Then you have Zaha, who is a player who's been playing since a young age, and who didn't make the cut when he moved to a big club. He's a risky player, who has potential to be a very good, but not world class, winger. Equally, he could only be suited to counter attacking teams not possession heavy teams which is the risk. He also wants to leave Palace, notably for Arsenal. He also has no resale value at all, because in 4-5 years, he will not be anywhere near as good as he is now. He has never produced remarkable numbers in terms of end product, and went off the boil towards the 2nd half of the season.
Wan Bissaka and Zaha are nowhere near comparable in terms of expected fees, it's a silly argument and comparison to make.
I think £40m is a fair opening offer. You never open negotiations with your final bid, and to be honest, he isn't worth more than £60m considering everything said above.
The final offer will most likely be £35-40m and Chambers (and a player on loan/nketiah/smith rowe), which in theory could mean only about £9-10m goes to United.
Nah mate, Mane was better and a more intelligent player at Southampton. A better ruthless finisher, first to every ball, expert in beating offside traps, positioning, work rate, stamina, ability to play in smaller space, making intelligent runs behind CDM and full backs. Zaha has done well at palace but he is still not on mane level. No way.
Penny pinching I guess. It does make us come across as mugs though.
There's also the fact that maybe they're counting on Zaha to kick up a fuss, in which case it doesn't make sense to go in with a massive bid to start
Danny Ings went for £20m, Solanke went for £20m, anything less than £60m for Zaha would be a terrible deal for Palace.
Also, we should hire the Liverpool negotiator.
Also, we should hire the Liverpool negotiator.
Agree with you, but you hold most of the cards here. Long contract, got to be worth £80m plus to you. Agent can kick up as much as he likes, but you have no need to sell below market value. He may want Arsenal, but they simply can’t afford him unless they change their mindset on transfer budget.
£60.
Mane in his final season at Southampton scored 11 and assisted 6. Zaha last season scored 10 and assisted 5 and Mane played in a significantly better Southampton team .. there wasn't some huge gap between the two statistically.
There isn't a big gap between the two at Palace/Southampton, just my opinion. Mane was a better goalscorer and finisher but Zaha is more creative, better in 1 on 1 situations, better at winning free kicks/penalties and generally a more unpredictable player, not as prolific but more of a creative hub for Palace. You don't think he's even on Mane at Southampton's level? Really? Because Mane back then was a very good player but not the world beater he is now, and I watched that Southampton team very regularly.
Wrong mate. From the club’s perspective selling a right-back does not make us relegation candidates. Selling our talisman and only attacking threat definitely puts the £100m we make a year from being in the PL at major risk and the fee will reflect that.
Chambers doesn’t get in to our team, no interest in Smith-Rowe or Nketiah on loan either. It will take lots of cash and/or Nelson or Iwobi in return.
Wasn't it written in a tweet somewhere that the 25% is capped off at 15m? So that's 60m tops for it to be beneficial to us. So yeah 60m is a fair price and 45m is a decent first offer.Arsenal are such a funny club. We secured AWB for 50 million and they offer 40 for their best player who also signed a 5 yr contract just last year. If you guys think we are frustrating when it comes to transfers we really have nothing on Arsenal.
Need them to sign him for 100 so we get our 20%!!!
And then there isn't any argument for Zaha being sold either. If what he is worth to the seller, is nowhere close to what the buyer is willing to pay, then surely that just means no deal?
I understand your point, but if you look at it from an Arsenal point, we don't care. We will offer a relatively offer for him, which is £40m. Obviously that is too low, but you don't start with a final offer. If he goes for £60m in the end, you keep £45m. Deulofou. Fraser, Wilson, Jimenez, Jota all got similar goals/assists to Zaha last season. For the £100m from the two big sales, you can sign a RB, and two attackers who could contribute more than Zaha has and be more than fine.
Asking for over £60m is rediculous in my opinion as he just isn't worth it considering everything, especially re-sale value to which Zaha has none to a buying club and the fact that he wants to go.
Also the argument that he signed a new contract, surely if anything that is sentiment to help let Zaha leave as if he didn't sign it, he'd be going for a lot less than he will potentially be. Who knows if he signed it and said that if he wants to go to a bigger club, and a reasonable fee comes in then he'd like to go.
He’s worth a lot more than that to Palace. Felix going for 120m. Your suggested final offer has no chance, irrespective of what we get from it.
Arsenal can't afford him, Jokers!
Yes but Felix has a buyout clause, and again, has resale value and longevity.
If you're going to compare it to a transfer, it's more comparable to Hazard than any other player. He went for £90m potentially rising, but he is a far better player than Zaha, so no way should Zaha be going for close to that.
Similarly you're all talking about Bruno Fernandes, who is a similar standard player in my opinion and could go for £50-60m.
Obviously Palace have a lot to lose because they aren't guarenteed prem football and I accept Zaha is a big attacker for them, but if he and Wan Bissaka can't be replaced with £100m, then that's more due to bad purchasing than anything. Your front 3 got 20 goals and 19 assists between them. (I used Schlupp, Townsend and Zaha).
You don't think that with say £70m you can't find two attackers who can get 28 goals/assists between them? (Taking out Townsends).
I hope this doesn't go through, i've seen nothing in his United days or even Palace games to offer 60m let alone 80 for Zaha.
Can't this club focus on our disgusting defence for once ? If Emery is still looking for an attacking player you've got Ziyech who wants to join us just as much and has shown good things on the big stage.
Can't this club focus on our disgusting defence for once ? If Emery is still looking for an attacking player you've got Ziyech who wants to join us just as much and has shown good things on the big stage.
What makes you think we are ‘asking’ for any amount?
Person one: How much are you selling your house for?
Person two: I don’t want to sell it.
Person one: Go on, I really want it, how much?
Person two: I really don’t want to sell it. But everything has a price so pay me a million quid and we have a deal.
Person One: A million quid? Don’t be so ridiculous, it’s not worth half that.
...Don’t like it, don’t buy it.
I’m with this btw, a new back 4 and a holding mid should be the priority surely? Very strange.
Exactly, no reason to be offended one way or another, both clubs only act according to their own interests and don't force the other's hand.
Where are you getting those statistics from? Zaha did not score that much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfried_Zaha
So according to reports the £40m was going to be paid over 5 years yet people say it isn’t ridiculous. This is a blatant attempt by Arsenal to unsettle the player.
Good player for Palace, feels like the right fit for him.
As much as we mock our coaches and staff, they were clearly happy enough to be rid of him after seeing him in training every day.
As much as we mock our coaches and staff, they were clearly happy enough to be rid of him after seeing him in training every day.
Why is everyone saying it'll get ugly?
Raul Sanllehi, director of football at Arsenal is ex-Barca and has brought his bag of tricks along with him. Already the brother/agent of Zaha has come out with comments applying pressure on CPFC to sell. This will get ugly.
I don’t think you can compare to hazard as he could have left for free in another year whereas Zaha has 4 years left on his contract I think.
I can see palace really digging in on this one and rightly so. All this “it’s my dream to play for Arsenal” is disrespectful and he shouldn’t have signed a new contract if he really thought that.
Arsenal’s first offer is so off the mark as to be a joke. It immediately puts palace in the mindset that arsenal aren’t serious. Not a good tactic imo. They seem to have done the same with Tierney.
I think this will rumble on and disrupt both teams’ preseasons.
Maybe you have included all competitions.
In PL, Mane played 67 games and contributed to 30 goals
Zaha played 63 games and contributed to 27 goals
Zaha won 10 penalties, Mane won 2.
Zaha created 14 big chances, Mane created 13
Zaha played more mins than Sane though.
So the player wants to leave and one of the negotiators brought his "bag of tricks" with him? Hold your horses everyone!