Why Manchester United still is the greatest football club in England

[redmanx]

At least we’ll soon know whether we can redeem some credit by winning the Europa. I wouldn’t bank on it though.

Winning it would be fine and a decent finish to what has been an abysmal season, but we've had such finishes before recently and then failed to capitalize on them with the following season turning out worse than the one before! The priority has to be sorting the team out. Our over all play is improving and we're creating chances but still not taking them and still making far too many individual errors. Address these matters and maybe, just
maybe we can have a better 2025/26 season.

 

[SuperiorXI]

We are BACK

 

[yumtum]

Agree to a point but since when did we (the supporters), have any say in who controls the club? The 58 were quick to realise the damage the Glazers would do, before anyone else realised.

Clapping every failing manager.

I know this forum hates booing or whatever, and that's fine, but clapping under performing mamagers/players only shows the powers that be that we're content with where we are.

 

[RopersReturn]

Clapping every failing manager.

I know this forum hates booing or whatever, and that's fine, but clapping under performing mamagers/players only shows the powers that be that we're content with where we are.

True, it’s been an irritatingly common gesture by swathes of our supporters for a while, signalling approval and encouraging below average performances. I just wonder if they’re actually applauding themselves for having to sit through it.

 

[CunningLinguist]

The difference is they used to be the ones making these copium type of threads. How the turntables...

 

[Gums]

It's not even close. We're as bad as we've been for decades yet supporters of other teams and the media just can't survive a day without us being on their mind. Read the comment section of any BBC article that has anything remotely to do with United or any of our ex-players and it's full of comments by non-United fans. It's easy to think you're the greatest when you're on top, like Liverpool or City atm. But being as bad as ever and still being the number 1 target/topic/enemy is unique. Liverpool can't even reach that by publicly supporting blatant rasiscm.

Not even close.

 

[Scandi Red]

The difference is they used to be the ones making these copium type of threads. How the turntables...

The difference is that their copium threads made no sense. All of the points in topic were no less true back when we won #19.

Like I said earlier: this is not a thread for counting trophies or using the brilliant insight of looking at the current table. Is Uruguay a greater football nation than The Netherlands because they have won more trophies? You could make this argument of course, but I would disagree.

 

[GaryLifo]

Liverpool back to number one club in England.

Not domestically. After league titles it goes to FA cup wins. Still ahead

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Of course we are. The state of the self loathing posters on here.

 

[JoseM4]

- Our managers don't sing songs to the next/previous managers.

It was very respectful for Arne Slot’s first words after winning to pay respect to Jorden Klopp.

United “were” a great team but now we’re an embarrassment.

Is it fair to say “this is the worst United team of your lifetime”?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I'm seeing a new narrative pop up here, claiming the number of total league titles is irrelevant and the only thing that actually counts is PL titles.

It's extremely cringe, RAWK-esque delusion.

 

[Scandi Red]

I'm seeing a new narrative pop up here, claiming the number of total league titles is irrelevant and the only thing that actually counts is PL titles.

If you read the topic while being 14 pints deep, maybe.

I'm not saying that titles are irrelevant. Obviously they are very important. But they're not the only thing that matters.

I held the exact same opinion before we won #19 by the way.

 

[FriedClams]

Crazy to suggest. Historically, Liverpool are the more successful club, can't even argue that. I've always felt it fair to only acknowledge things that happened in your own lifetime though, so for me personally UTD are far more successful than liverpool.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

If you read the topic while being 14 pints deep, maybe.

I'm not saying that titles are irrelevant. Obviously they are very important. But they're not the only thing that matters.

I held the exact same opinion before we won #19 by the way.

I'm not referring specifically to the OP - there are plenty of posts in this thread and others that basically say "well Liverpool doesn't have 13 PL titles, so it's still our perch".

 

[Offside]

United were the biggest club even in the 80s, always will be.

 

[Real Name]

Crazy to suggest. Historically, Liverpool are the more successful club, can't even argue that. I've always felt it fair to only acknowledge things that happened in your own lifetime though, so for me personally UTD are far more successful than liverpool.

I'm not sure how you can't argue that?

 

[Scandi Red]

I'm not referring specifically to the OP - there are plenty of posts in this thread and others that basically say "well Liverpool doesn't have 13 PL titles, so it's still our perch".

Ah, my bad!

They do have a small point though. It's more impressive to win the biggest trophies in a hyper-competitive and globalised era where all professionals are top level athletes.

Hypothetically speaking a random English club could have farmed 21 titles in the late 1800's and early 1900's only to never win another trophy. Would that club be greater than United and Liverpool? Of course not.

 

[Real Name]

As a globall fanbase Liverpool fans hold their owners to account for the way their club is run. Utd fans on the other hand tolerated the leeches that ran the club to the ground and still do.

Liverpool fans earned their success and should be rightly applauded for where their club are now.

One set of fans used their voices to remove a cancer from their club and are reaping the rewards.

Ours didn't, hence where we are now.

All right we get it.

You're full of praise for Liverpool and are telling us tales about their fans getting rid of the owners.

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

The dippers won the league in a season when many of the usual suspects have had a below par year.

The dippers had incredible fortune with injuries, or a lack thereof, to their core players.

The dippers were masters of the late goal and to their credit, grinding out seemingly fortunate results along the way.

The dippers benefitted greatly from the VAR decision system, on numerous occasions.

The dippers will be knocked back off their perch in due course, there is no way that so many threads of fortune will be woven together next time around, especially with their key players older & older.

The dippers will never be as great a club as Manchester United!

 

[Bubz27]

It was very respectful for Arne Slot’s first words after winning to pay respect to Jorden Klopp.

United “were” a great team but now we’re an embarrassment.

Is it fair to say “this is the worst United team of your lifetime”?

It was cringe for Klopp to sing for Slot and vice versa. Drop him a good luck or a thank you and move on. Singing for them sticks with this Liverpool idea that everything they do is better than everyone else and it means more to them than anyone.

And if that last question is to me, then absolutely yes.

 

[Top_Bins]

I really don't see the point in these kinds of threads.
You must be big enough to recognise that they have earnt their honours.
Our rivalry with them will help us to get hungry to surpass them again, maybe not now, but when we have a decent team that's ready to compete.

 

[Scandi Red]

I really don't see the point in these kinds of threads.

I started seeing a bunch of posts online (from neutral fans too) about how this title definitively makes Liverpool the greatest English club in history. I happen to disagree with this narrative. Hence the thread.

 

[SirAF]

I hate the cnuts, but they have twice the amount of European Cups and they have pulled level on league titles. Grim.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I don't know if Liverpool ever finished as low as we are about to. I highly doubt it. I also doubt any of their squads were as bad as our current one.

But they looked hopeless for quite a while. And showed how important it is to start getting the recruitment right. When they stopped with the Charlie Adams and started making sensible signings, it changed fast.

I think it will for United too. And I'm confident that 4 sensible first team signings, revamping the attacking line in the process, will have a bigger impact on the team than many would believe. I think we'll be back in the top 4 next season. That's my early prediction under the confidence that we're going to get it right in the market.

 

[Rainy nights in Stoke]

I really don't understand the obsession with being the biggest club. It's not like that can be objectively judged any other way than trophies, and even that is a super flawed argument. Both clubs are great, both clubs will continue to be great even in the downcycles. It's just banter-fodder really.

If we turn things around and win 3 PL titles and a CL title in the next 10 years, while Liverpool don't win any, can we 100% objectively say that Manchester United are the biggest club in England? Our fans will say so, while Liverpool fans will say no for tons of different reasons.

I'm a United fan, and for me and millions of others, United will be the greatest club pretty much no matter what happens in the title count.

Juve fans will say they're the biggest Italian side without comparison, whereas AC Milan fans will say that no other Italian team can hold a candle to their 1988-1990 side. It's way to nuanced to say that one club is definitely better than another when we get to this level of success. Only crybabies with short memories, or fans who want to banter their rival fans/friends focus on it.

 

[Irishman]

Sorry, but we also have 'rose up' against the same type of American owners but to no avail.

The campaigns Liverpool's fans had against Hicks and Gillette had absolutely no bearing on their removal.

RBS called in their loans whenever they entered public ownership, a policy which affected many businesses and, LFC fans will not like this, was approved by the Cameron government.

Are you trying to gear us up to supporting a certain type of takeover? The Qatari type, perhaps?

The sustained pressure from the Liverpool fans, coupled with their club's financial difficulties, eventually led to Hicks and Gillett's sale of their controlling interest. They deserve massive respect in this regard.

Any other huge global football clubs fans from Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern etc would never have accepted the Glazers. They would have rightly been chased out of every other club.

Our fickle fanbase drunk senseless on 20 years of unprecedented success failed to mount protests that should have mirrored the scale of the threat to the clubs global position.

Fergie played a crucial role in allowing the club and all his hard work to be undermined by greed and corruption. A legend of the club without question but also whose ego and his own greed allowed all that hard work to be undone.

Even to this day, not one bad word from Fergie about the Glazers.

As for your point about supporting a certain type of takeover I have no inclination to support a sportwashing project.

 

[FriedClams]

The argument about us winning more premier league titles is so stupid. We dont sing "13 times, 13 times man United"

 

[MaxZorin]

The sustained pressure from the Liverpool fans, coupled with their club's financial difficulties, eventually led to Hicks and Gillett's sale of their controlling interest. They deserve massive respect in this regard.

It had no impact on their selling of the controlling interest. Zilch. Nada. Zero.

I respect LFC's support for exerting pressure but it had no real impact.

Fergie played a crucial role in allowing the club and all his hard work to be undermined by greed and corruption. A legend of the club without question but also whose ego and his own greed allowed all that hard work to be undone.

I'm not sure what you are referring to, but if it is the rock of gibraltar saga and you really believe it is the reason the Glazer family bought our club, like truly believe it, I'm not sure much can be done for you.

I really don't have the time to go through it yet again with another (deliberately) misinformed supporter, whose anger with recent results causes them to lash out.

Lionising Liverpool fans and having a go at Ferguson whilst repeating demonstrably untrue media narratives?

Come on, lad. Talk about 'fickle'.

As for your point about supporting a certain type of takeover I have no inclination to support a sportwashing project.

Ah, sense at last.

 

[Tom Cato]

Clapping every failing manager.

I know this forum hates booing or whatever, and that's fine, but clapping under performing mamagers/players only shows the powers that be that we're content with where we are.

While I certainly respect that other priorities fall on different people, I disagree with this type of fandom for a few reasons:

I absolutely fall into one of the categories that detest booing. Its inherently counter productive to team spirit and the entire purpose of sportsmanship. Players who are losing know they are losing, they don't need reminding from a pack of hyenas that only attend the games and have their back if they deliver in the moment.

Im in my 40s now and my view on pretty much everything has evolved after my 20s. I have booed SO much while attending games. Ive yelled at and lambasted players and officials more than I care to admit during games. From my own team. All that does is create such an incredible toxic atmosphere for matchgoing fans, kids in attendance, families who are out, and the players themselves. I cant abide by that kind of attitude in this phase of my life. Its perfectly fine to have vocal disagreements and discussions, but who are you helping by screaming bloody murder when things are going bad?

Applauding underperforming players/managers during times of struggle isnt some bizarre perceived weakness or "showing that we are content". It shows that the matchgoing fans have class and are willing to back the player and staff wearing the club emblem during rough times.

The away crowd stilling singing and chanting despite the terrible season we have had only shows character. They should all be applauded for still keeping the spirit going and not devolving into a cacophony.

The club is broken and the players know things aren't going well. Do you imagine you need to tell them? Do you imagine the ownership are content with 17th in the league and wont do anything unless fans start booing and making everyone around them miserable as well?

I will rather applaud everyone who are giving their all despite how things are turning out, and rather reflect my anger towards the people who make the decisions. The last time the club made everyone upset enough they formed a protest and stopped the entire thing from happening. Why not try that approach again, instead of bringing the misery to a place where the misery help no one but the opposing team.

 

[Wilt]

Liverpool’s 6 European Cups are the obvious deciding factor.

 

[lithium1977]

Liverpool’s 6 European Cups are the obvious deciding factor.

Correct. End of.

 

[Hammondo]

We're still bigger than them but they are better than us right now.

They need a sustained run of dominance in the league and Europe to topple us. A couple of leagues a few years apart and the odd European fluke isn't enough.

But they are more successful.

 

[Hammondo]

Not domestically. After league titles it goes to FA cup wins. Still ahead

No one cares about that.

 

[fastwalker]

I appreciate the sentiment but let’s be honest we’re not the greatest club in England. This thread painfully reminds us how far we are from becoming one. We’ve been well and truly knocked off any figurative and literal perch.

Back when we were dominant, when Liverpool reminded us of their former glories, it only served to remind us of their decline. Sadly, the shoe is now on the other foot. It is painful how things can change in such a seemingly short space of time. They have come from being a laughing stock that almost went bankrupt, to become one of the best run clubs in the country and Premier League champions. We on the other hand have gone from being one of the most consistently successful clubs in the country, with the best manager and best players to a laughing stock. Liverpool have remembered what made them great and we have forgotten.

As the OP seems to suggest, our successes can be found in the history books, theirs are being won on the pitch.

 

[Adz_99]

The sustained pressure from the Liverpool fans, coupled with their club's financial difficulties, eventually led to Hicks and Gillett's sale of their controlling interest. They deserve massive respect in this regard.

Any other huge global football clubs fans from Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern etc would never have accepted the Glazers. They would have rightly been chased out of every other club.

Our fickle fanbase drunk senseless on 20 years of unprecedented success failed to mount protests that should have mirrored the scale of the threat to the clubs global position.

Fergie played a crucial role in allowing the club and all his hard work to be undermined by greed and corruption. A legend of the club without question but also whose ego and his own greed allowed all that hard work to be undone.

Even to this day, not one bad word from Fergie about the Glazers.

As for your point about supporting a certain type of takeover I have no inclination to support a sportwashing project.

This is just spinning facts to suit a narrative. United fans are terrible and Liverpool fans are brilliant, got it.

No amount of protesting is getting rid of the Glazers though.

 

[Irwin99]

Liverpool’s 6 European Cups are the obvious deciding factor.

The European factor is important. It’s hard not to feel that we massively underachieved in Europe given the size of the club (a bit like Juventus).

The domestic record can be put right again but it’s going take a lot to get us back there.

 

[Lay]

Cringe is strong here.

Liverpool have caught up on titles and have double the amount of European cups. Safe to say they are ahead of United.

 

[GaryLifo]

Cringe is strong here.

Liverpool have caught up on titles and have double the amount of European cups. Safe to say they are ahead of United.

True, but they are still scouse cnuts. So there's that

 

[daveskimufc]

Liverpool win the premier league, and any scouse fan that is interviewed has to mention UTD or fergie

RENT FREE!!!

 

[DixieDean]

Most successful does not necessary mean biggest. I'm sure there were Man Utd fans in the 80's who claimed they were the biggest club in england because of the biggest crowds.