You are only talking about Big clubs ?
Why is our transfer approach so abject and shockingly poor?
- Thread starter JUPITER
- Start date
You are only talking about Big clubs ?
Barney has a point. Unquestionable successes? Only four players across the whole of Europe? You could argue that players like Pelle, Bojan, Song have been just as vital to their teams as Cesc and Sanchez have been for Chelsea and Arsenal respectively.
Probably De Gea, RVP, Blind, Hernandez and Smalling
I'm gonna compare them and United's signings in the last 5 years out of interest. What struck me was how little signings United made compared to the others, but it's clear that other teams had quite a few crap seasons of transfers.
United:
2014/15
Herrera - £29m
Shaw - £27m
Rojo - £16m
Di Maria - £59.7m
Blind - £13.8m
Valdes - £0m
2013/14
Varela - £2.4m
Fellaini - £27.5m
Janko - £0.7m
Mata - £37.1m
2012/13
Powell - £4m
Kagawa - £12m
van Persie - £22m
Henriquez - £4m
Buttner - £3.9m
Zaha - £15m
2011/12
Jones - £17m
De Gea - £18.9m
Young - £17m
Scholes - £0m
2010/11
Smalling - £10m
Hernandez - £6m
Bebe - £7.4m
Lindegaard - £3.5m
Herrera - £29m
Shaw - £27m
Rojo - £16m
Di Maria - £59.7m
Blind - £13.8m
Valdes - £0m
2013/14
Varela - £2.4m
Fellaini - £27.5m
Janko - £0.7m
Mata - £37.1m
2012/13
Powell - £4m
Kagawa - £12m
van Persie - £22m
Henriquez - £4m
Buttner - £3.9m
Zaha - £15m
2011/12
Jones - £17m
De Gea - £18.9m
Young - £17m
Scholes - £0m
2010/11
Smalling - £10m
Hernandez - £6m
Bebe - £7.4m
Lindegaard - £3.5m
Chelsea:
2014/15
Fabregas - £30m
Costa - £32m
Luis - £15.8m
Drogba - £0m
Remy - £10.5m
Cuadrado - £27m
2013/14
Schurrle - £18m
van Ginkel - £8m
Schwarzer - £0m
Eto'o - £0m
Willian - £30m
Matic - £21m
Salah - £11m
Zouma - £12.5m
2012/13
Marin - £6.5m
Hazard - £32m
Oscar - £25m
Azpilicueta - £7m
Moses - £9m
Ba - £7.5m
Wallace - £5m
2011/12
Courtois - £6m
Lukaku - £20m
Romeu - £4.5m
Mata - £23.5m
Meireles - £12m
Cahill - £7m
De Bruyne - £6.7m
Bamford - £1.5m
Lucas - £5m
2010/11
Benayoun - £5m
Ramires - £18.3m
Torres - £50m
Luiz - £21.3m
Fabregas - £30m
Costa - £32m
Luis - £15.8m
Drogba - £0m
Remy - £10.5m
Cuadrado - £27m
2013/14
Schurrle - £18m
van Ginkel - £8m
Schwarzer - £0m
Eto'o - £0m
Willian - £30m
Matic - £21m
Salah - £11m
Zouma - £12.5m
2012/13
Marin - £6.5m
Hazard - £32m
Oscar - £25m
Azpilicueta - £7m
Moses - £9m
Ba - £7.5m
Wallace - £5m
2011/12
Courtois - £6m
Lukaku - £20m
Romeu - £4.5m
Mata - £23.5m
Meireles - £12m
Cahill - £7m
De Bruyne - £6.7m
Bamford - £1.5m
Lucas - £5m
2010/11
Benayoun - £5m
Ramires - £18.3m
Torres - £50m
Luiz - £21.3m
City:
2014/15
Sagna - £0m
Fernando - £12m
Cabellero - £6m
Zuculini - £1.5m
Mangala - £32m
Bony - £28m
2013/14
Navas - £22.9m
Fernandinho - £30m
Negredo - £20.6m
Jovetic - £25.8m
Demichelis - £3.5m
2012/13
Rodwell - £15m
Sinclair - £8m
Nastasic - £12m
Maicon - £3m
Wright - £0m
Garcia - £16m
2011/12
Savic - £6m
Clichy - £7m
Aguero - £38m
Pantillimon - £3m
Nasri - £22m
Hargreaves - £0m
2010/11
Boateng - £11m
Yaya Toure - £24m
Silva - £25m
Kolarov - £17m
Balotelli - £24.5m
Milner - £26m
Dzeko - £27m
Sagna - £0m
Fernando - £12m
Cabellero - £6m
Zuculini - £1.5m
Mangala - £32m
Bony - £28m
2013/14
Navas - £22.9m
Fernandinho - £30m
Negredo - £20.6m
Jovetic - £25.8m
Demichelis - £3.5m
2012/13
Rodwell - £15m
Sinclair - £8m
Nastasic - £12m
Maicon - £3m
Wright - £0m
Garcia - £16m
2011/12
Savic - £6m
Clichy - £7m
Aguero - £38m
Pantillimon - £3m
Nasri - £22m
Hargreaves - £0m
2010/11
Boateng - £11m
Yaya Toure - £24m
Silva - £25m
Kolarov - £17m
Balotelli - £24.5m
Milner - £26m
Dzeko - £27m
Liverpool:
2014/15
Can - £10m
Lambert - £4m
Lallana - £25m
Markovic - £20m
Lovren - £20m
Origi - £10m
Moreno - £12m
Balotelli - £16m
2013/14
Alberto - £6.8m
Aspas - £7m
Kolo Toure - £0m
Mignolet - £10m
Ilori - £7m
Sakho - £18m
2012/13
Borini - £10m
Allen - £15m
Assaidi - £2.3m
Yesil - £1m
Sturridge - £12m
Coutinho - £8.5m
Ibe - £0.5m
2011/12
Henderson - £16m
Adam - £7m
Downing - £20m
Enrique - £6.3m
Coates - £7m
Bellamy - £0m
2010/11
Shelvey - £1.7m
Jovanovic - £0m
Wilson - £2m
Cole - £0m
Aureilo - £0m
Poulson - £4.5m
Jones - £2.3m
Meireles - £11.5m
Konchesky - Swapped
Suarez - £23m
Carroll - £35m
Can - £10m
Lambert - £4m
Lallana - £25m
Markovic - £20m
Lovren - £20m
Origi - £10m
Moreno - £12m
Balotelli - £16m
2013/14
Alberto - £6.8m
Aspas - £7m
Kolo Toure - £0m
Mignolet - £10m
Ilori - £7m
Sakho - £18m
2012/13
Borini - £10m
Allen - £15m
Assaidi - £2.3m
Yesil - £1m
Sturridge - £12m
Coutinho - £8.5m
Ibe - £0.5m
2011/12
Henderson - £16m
Adam - £7m
Downing - £20m
Enrique - £6.3m
Coates - £7m
Bellamy - £0m
2010/11
Shelvey - £1.7m
Jovanovic - £0m
Wilson - £2m
Cole - £0m
Aureilo - £0m
Poulson - £4.5m
Jones - £2.3m
Meireles - £11.5m
Konchesky - Swapped
Suarez - £23m
Carroll - £35m
Arsenal:
2014/15
Debuchy - £12m
Sanchez - £35m
Ospina - £3m
Chambers - £16m
Welbeck - £16m
Bielik - £2.4m
Paulista - £11.2m
2013/14
Sanogo - £0m
Flamini - £0m
Ozil - £42.5m
2012/13
Podolski - £11m
Giroud - £13m
Cazorla - £20m
Monreal - £8.3m
2011/12
Jenkinson - £0m
Gervinho - £10.6m
Oxlaide-Chamberlain - £12m
Campbell - £1m
Park Chu-Young - £3m
Santos - £6.2m
Arteta - £10m
Mertesacker - £10m
Eisfeld - £0.5m
2010/11
Chamakh - £0m
Koscielny - £10m
Squillaci - £4m
Debuchy - £12m
Sanchez - £35m
Ospina - £3m
Chambers - £16m
Welbeck - £16m
Bielik - £2.4m
Paulista - £11.2m
2013/14
Sanogo - £0m
Flamini - £0m
Ozil - £42.5m
2012/13
Podolski - £11m
Giroud - £13m
Cazorla - £20m
Monreal - £8.3m
2011/12
Jenkinson - £0m
Gervinho - £10.6m
Oxlaide-Chamberlain - £12m
Campbell - £1m
Park Chu-Young - £3m
Santos - £6.2m
Arteta - £10m
Mertesacker - £10m
Eisfeld - £0.5m
2010/11
Chamakh - £0m
Koscielny - £10m
Squillaci - £4m
And for you who would be City and Chelsea's best signings in that same 5 year period?
BBC reported him to have 265k per week in wages with the fee being 6m like you said. His monthly wages times 12 would be 12,7m. That's 1,3m short of that 14m. Then you have to take into account that he's on loan. He came hear September 2nd and the deal ends on July 1st. So that's 10 months wages, not 12.
I think it's ridiculous to talk about that he cost 20m. Why is he the only player that gets his wages put into the cost? It's never done. Either do it for everyone or for no one.
A few....
I'm not ready to write off our latest round as poor, but if we look at the last 10 years, and particularly the 6 years since Ronaldo left, I think we can see 3 separate phases, all of which have contributed to our dodgy transfer dealings.
The first, and the one which has been discussed to death, is the Fergie value/thrifty era. During his last years in charge, Fergie seemed to be put off by the ridiculous transfer fees being paid for players who, in his eyes, had done nothing to justify them. Some may argue that the Glazers were pressuring him to keep spending under control, but whatever the reason, we clearly were reluctant to match the spending of teams like Chelsea and City. While I can sympathize with Fergie's disdain for this kind of free-spending, and particularly the role of agents in it, this thriftiness likely led to some underwhelming punts on the likes of Bebe (although you could argue we overspent on him,) Obertan and Powell, while missing out on the likes of Lucas, Hazard and no doubt many others who would've have loved to join United. Somewhat bizarrely, however, Fergie did open the pursestrings for players like Young and Jones, spending the kind of money that may have been better spent on others. It's hard to really pin down the method to our spending madness during this era, but it's pretty clear that our transfer dealings during Fergie's final years were below average (the failure to properly reinvest the Ronaldo windfall being particularly galling.)
The second phase is the Moyes one. Again, it's hard to know just how constrained spending was by ownership (the Fabregas saga didn't exactly put us in a positive light in this matter,) but whatever the case, Moyes and/or Woodward utterly failed during his first transfer window. Bringing in only Fellaini, at an inflated price no less, while failing to strengthen the midfield was a major howler on the part of management. One also gets the feeling that Moyes' hesitancy played a big role (not going all in for Thiago for example.) The reasons for this round of failure may well have been the same as during the Fergie phase described above, but Moyes and Woodward were nowhere the same class as Fergie and Gill at playing the PR game (ie. 'no value in the market.') Instead, they indulged in half-baked split bids and seemed as mystified as everyone else by the Herrera affair.
Finally, we have the Van Gaal phase, one in which Woodward has played a much more obvious and leading role. As I said, I'm not ready to write off these latest transfers, but they certainly smack of Woodward looking to make statement signings, even if they are not ones desired by the manager. Unlike the previous phase, in which caution seemed a byword for transfer dealings, this latest phase seems to have thrown caution to the wind (a necessary step perhaps, given the squad shock therapy required after the Moyes debacle.) Unfortunately, there is still the lingering feeling that we haven't really addressed a number of the issues that have dogged since Fergie's final years (ie. sorting out the midfield and stabilizing the defence.)
Actually, I don't know what the hell I'm on about here, other than to say that we haven't been very good in the transfer market since the heyday of signing Evra, Vidic and later, Carrick.
The first, and the one which has been discussed to death, is the Fergie value/thrifty era. During his last years in charge, Fergie seemed to be put off by the ridiculous transfer fees being paid for players who, in his eyes, had done nothing to justify them. Some may argue that the Glazers were pressuring him to keep spending under control, but whatever the reason, we clearly were reluctant to match the spending of teams like Chelsea and City. While I can sympathize with Fergie's disdain for this kind of free-spending, and particularly the role of agents in it, this thriftiness likely led to some underwhelming punts on the likes of Bebe (although you could argue we overspent on him,) Obertan and Powell, while missing out on the likes of Lucas, Hazard and no doubt many others who would've have loved to join United. Somewhat bizarrely, however, Fergie did open the pursestrings for players like Young and Jones, spending the kind of money that may have been better spent on others. It's hard to really pin down the method to our spending madness during this era, but it's pretty clear that our transfer dealings during Fergie's final years were below average (the failure to properly reinvest the Ronaldo windfall being particularly galling.)
The second phase is the Moyes one. Again, it's hard to know just how constrained spending was by ownership (the Fabregas saga didn't exactly put us in a positive light in this matter,) but whatever the case, Moyes and/or Woodward utterly failed during his first transfer window. Bringing in only Fellaini, at an inflated price no less, while failing to strengthen the midfield was a major howler on the part of management. One also gets the feeling that Moyes' hesitancy played a big role (not going all in for Thiago for example.) The reasons for this round of failure may well have been the same as during the Fergie phase described above, but Moyes and Woodward were nowhere the same class as Fergie and Gill at playing the PR game (ie. 'no value in the market.') Instead, they indulged in half-baked split bids and seemed as mystified as everyone else by the Herrera affair.
Finally, we have the Van Gaal phase, one in which Woodward has played a much more obvious and leading role. As I said, I'm not ready to write off these latest transfers, but they certainly smack of Woodward looking to make statement signings, even if they are not ones desired by the manager. Unlike the previous phase, in which caution seemed a byword for transfer dealings, this latest phase seems to have thrown caution to the wind (a necessary step perhaps, given the squad shock therapy required after the Moyes debacle.) Unfortunately, there is still the lingering feeling that we haven't really addressed a number of the issues that have dogged since Fergie's final years (ie. sorting out the midfield and stabilizing the defence.)
Actually, I don't know what the hell I'm on about here, other than to say that we haven't been very good in the transfer market since the heyday of signing Evra, Vidic and later, Carrick.
Well you are whining, even if you don't want to call it that; its all anyones been doing in this forum the past 2 months.
And I'm not for a second arguing that our hit ratio is exceptionally good, just that its not particularly bad.
Even if you're exceeding harsh and call the only successes in the past 5 years Blind, Rojo, Van Persie, De Gea and Chicharito we're still looking at around about a 33% success rate.
Compared to an overall league average of 40% (as per the link above its not far off) and compared to City (again being very harsh) with Demichelis, Milner, Aguero, Toure and Silva at around 15% (5 of 33) we compare favourably (even if you're being slightly less harsh and give them players like Dzeko, Kolorov and the Ferns and us Smalling and Mata we'd still edge it).
We just, until this season, haven't made that many signings full stop, therefore clearly are more likely to have less players go on and make an impact in our first team compared to others that have bought more, but thats a stupid way to look at it.
His first two seasons.
For Chelsea Courtois, Fabregas, Matic, Azpilicueta, Hazard or Courtois, Fabregas, Oscar, Hazard, Matic.
For City Fernandinho, David Silva, Nasri, Negredo and Navas.
Edit: Aguero for Navas and Touré for Negredo
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No Aguero or Yaya Toure?
He said 5 years so I begun in 2010, Aguero and Yaya Touré came in 2008 or 2009.
No they didn't
No they didn't
My mistake I'll fix that.
No there's a core of moaners, always the same ones, most of us can't be bothered to have inane debates
What becomes clear from these lists is that all teams have their successes, punts and duffers. For every Obertan there is a Marin and an Aspas.
A myriad of reasons can explain just why our transfer business has suffered in recent years. Financial insecurity, or inability depending on your view, Ferguson's decision-making, Moyes' incompetence and changes throughout the club's hierarchy have all played its part, in the same way it has our mini-demise.
I think we're coming through all of that now and will eventually modernise and improve. We had the same manager for 27 years that more or less ran the club, only now do I begin to appreciate just how difficult the entire moving on process has been. What's seemingly evident is that we're now on the right track. Hopefully this summer will vindicate that belief.
It's tiring isn't it? The same ones moan about everything. It completely undermines any point they might occasionally have because it's completely disregarded as just being them being irrational moaners again.
Exactly
I think the club have tried to make up for the shocking transfer run we were on between the summer 2009 to the summer 2013, you could see in the summer of 2014 the signs were there the club was targeting top quality players, not just targeting them, but showing it by signing the checks and bringing the players in. Unlike summer 2013, last summer the club have walked the walk, not talked the talk.
When the club have been on such a rut with the transfer window, last summer felt like a maiden voyage for the club, those small baby steps to complete ruthless aggression are coming back into the clubs mentality, and summer 2014 was such a breath of fresh air seeing the club act like the old United and signing the big players
You can see who has left since the summer, the club is moving in the right direction, it's just going to take a few summers. I think it would help the club if VG starts to play teams at the benefit of the balance of the team. But in terms of our transfer policy, we are going forward.
When the club have been on such a rut with the transfer window, last summer felt like a maiden voyage for the club, those small baby steps to complete ruthless aggression are coming back into the clubs mentality, and summer 2014 was such a breath of fresh air seeing the club act like the old United and signing the big players
You can see who has left since the summer, the club is moving in the right direction, it's just going to take a few summers. I think it would help the club if VG starts to play teams at the benefit of the balance of the team. But in terms of our transfer policy, we are going forward.
There are also the people who you can't debate with because they refuse to be critical of the club. It does work both ways.
My thoughts too. Neither of those other clubs has had to move on from a manager they've had for 26 years. Most of them are used to having a different manager every year or two, only exception being Arsenal.
For example with a team like Chelsea, they've had that good core of players that different managers have tweaked and added to without suffering a large decline in results (there was that one year where they finished 6th, but they won the Champions League anyway). Basically, they were used to having different managers nearly every season. With United, only Fergie could have got the team he left behind to continue competing for the title. United after Ferguson's retirement was such a huge joke, not only on the pitch but the way things were handled during the summer transfer window. Hopefully it's something we'll have learned from.
Like I say, summer 2009-13 saw the team fall in a deep start of decline and regression. But Fletcher Cleverley anderson nani Zaha and many more will be leaving. So it's slowly getting there, this summer we will know for sure if that ruthless aggression streak is back in the club, especially if we make the top 4
I don't think its that bad now to be honest. LVG came in, saw weaknesses and reacted. Jose had 1 season to evaluate his squad but yes they did good business. As for City, not sure Fernandinho and Fernando are up to scratch. Picking up on Aguero and Toure is like saying Rooney and Ronaldo for us. It's nice but doesn't mean much because they were bought a long time ago now.
Re; Luke Shaw. We paid similar for Rio Ferdinand. Providing he's in and around the team as expected for the next 10 years, then there's no reason to call that bad business.
Think Blind and even Rojo deals have been a good bit of business also.
Falcao was always a risk in his state, that we played the loan card first should be praised not seen as a negative transfer too.
Di Maria was a bit too much but he was also clearly a standout world class talent coming off a heroic season so it's justifiable.
Herrera tbc.
The issue is the overpayment of Fellaini at the time and the panic state to overpay again for Mata. Both far beyond market value. The state of the circumstances and the pressure to sign someone because of failings before in the transfer windows was glaringly obvious.
Fergie regularly took 10-15m punts on players too but fees were often spread out in instalments and performance related deals. Zaha didn't work out. Midfield could have done with the investment more but that's been covered a million times before.
Re; Luke Shaw. We paid similar for Rio Ferdinand. Providing he's in and around the team as expected for the next 10 years, then there's no reason to call that bad business.
Think Blind and even Rojo deals have been a good bit of business also.
Falcao was always a risk in his state, that we played the loan card first should be praised not seen as a negative transfer too.
Di Maria was a bit too much but he was also clearly a standout world class talent coming off a heroic season so it's justifiable.
Herrera tbc.
The issue is the overpayment of Fellaini at the time and the panic state to overpay again for Mata. Both far beyond market value. The state of the circumstances and the pressure to sign someone because of failings before in the transfer windows was glaringly obvious.
Fergie regularly took 10-15m punts on players too but fees were often spread out in instalments and performance related deals. Zaha didn't work out. Midfield could have done with the investment more but that's been covered a million times before.
'is it all fergie's fault' - we're the most successful club in the prem era, by far, so no
This thread is a year or two too late.
City' signings post take-over and pre-CL qualification:
10/11
Mario Balotelli £24,000,000
James Milner £26,000,000
Edin Dzeko £27,000,000
09/10
Gareth Barry Aston Villa £12,000,000
Roque Santa Cruz Blackburn £17,500,000
Dedryck Boyata FC Brussels Trainee
Stuart Taylor Aston Villa Free
Carlos Tevez Man Utd £47,000,000
Emmanuel Adebayor Arsenal £25,000,000
Kolo Toure Arsenal £16,000,000
Sylvinho Barcelona Free
Joleon Lescott Everton £22,000,000
Patrick Vieira Inter Free
Adam Johnson Middlesbro £7,000,000
Jerome Boateng Hamburg £10,460,000
Alex Henshall Swindon £250,000
David Silva Valencia £26,000,000
Yaya Toure Barcelona £24,000,000
About as hit and miss as our summer window outside of the CL, a mix of successes, failures, reasonable signings, some for decent prices and some overpriced. City finished 5th in 09/10, and 3rd in 10/11. It's understandable why we missed out on Sanchez and Fabregas if CL teams were interested. Sometimes it's possible to sign big players out of the CL qualification places as we did with Di Maria and City managed to nab a couple, but it depends on who else is interested. You can't sign all of your top targets in a window, so pointing to a couple players we missed out on is not worthwhile. City in 09-11 also benefited from the fact that at the time we were playing silly buggers and refusing to shell out the Ronaldo money and signing only young players, plus Arsenal were paying off their stadium debts and weren't spending big in the transfer market. Our drop out of the top 4 came at a comparatively tougher time - Arsenal's are spunking cash again plus Chelsea and City both have cash to spend, CL qualification and immediate title-challenging credentials to offer. Steps were clearly taken to change our approach to transfers last summer - steps in the right direction - however our previous approach has put us in a tough situation and it's not something that will change instantly.
If we follow on from last summer's approach I expect us to be in for some top players - if we finish top 4 this season I have no worries about us being able to purchase most of our main targets. The issues with signings in the last window are not one of transfer approach/strategy, just a couple of incorrect judgement calls by LVG with regards to Falcao and, although it's early to call, Herrera. Let's see what LVG does to address the issues with the squad this time round - he will have the luxury of actually knowing his squad this time, and won't have to be overseeing a clear out of over a dozen first team players and bringing in six new players. See, that's another problem - when you try signing loads of players in one window, of course there will be duds. Large squad overhauls are never instantly successful. The ideal position to be in is where you are bringing in one or two top players a season to bolster the squad, plus one or two young prospects. We were nowhere near being in that position last year, but this time round I would say that's nearly where we are. We need 3-4 top quality players in specific positions. Now, if next summer we ignored those positions and brought in players instead for positions that don't need bolstering, then the thread title would be valid.
No they didn't
Actually Raw, Yaya Toure did indeed sign in 2009. So too even Silva. Aguero was later though. So City's signings in the past 5 seasons have been lackluster besides Aguero, but Chelsea have had a storming period in the market. It's all cycles though - Chelsea's signings from about 07 until about 2010 were fairly shite, and then it slowly started to pick up after that.
Facts
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True but there are good things and not so good things about all clubs, no-one can be happy with everything the club does like nobody can objectively criticise everything it does either.
However, at the end of the day, whichever club you are a fan of, you should support that club. The most annoying side of it, is the unbelievable success this club has had over the last 25 years but some always compare us to how wonderful other clubs are.
Like your club had fantastic success in the 70s and 80s, were Liverpool fans envious of us or Everton or Arsenal at the time?
Goddamn! When you list our signings from recent years on paper it reads like a muppets wet dream wish list.
Goddamn! When you list our signings from recent years on paper it reads like a muppets wet dream wish list.
Indeed, very impressive list of big successes. But there's also been a fair share of duds/unspectacular signings too.
Torres, Zhirkov, Benayoun, Ba, Moses, Marin, Meirelles, Salah, Filipe Luis, Remy (bit harsh on the last two I guess)
Then there's De Bruyne, Schurrle, Sturridge, Lukaku, David Luiz who didn't make it at Chelsea but Chelsea made a profit on.
About David Luiz/Matic though, people seem to overlook the fact Chelsea signed Luiz for 20m + Matic, and then signed Matic back for 20m. Still a 10m profit when considering the ridiculous fee that Chelsea conned PSG into paying mind..
Which really just shows that success in the transfer market and building a great squad takes time and isn't possible without dropping some clangers on the way.
You can argue that we signed players without even thinking how they'd fit into the side the last few seasons.
Fellaini - played his best football as a target man in the hole at Everton. Never good enough to displace the other options we had as #10s at the the time (RvP, Rooney, Kagawa). Pointless signing. Never creative enough from deep to play deeper for a side like United either.
Mata - sensational as a second striker for Chelsea. Again, we have several players in that position. Sort of player who relies on pace and movement around him. Doesn't fit into the team sadly, and warms the bench. Will most likely be sold in the summer for a loss.
Blind - arguably the only one that makes sense. Bought in as cover for Carrick, and can play in several positions. He's done a lot better than I think most thought he would. Still needs someone physical to partner him though.
Herrera - we spent more £££ on him than Chelsea did on Fabregas, for him to sit on our bench. Will never establish himself as the main #10, and if LvG doesn't think he's strong enough defensively to play deeper, why did we waste £28m on him? I rate him but it's clear van Gaal doesn't.
Di Maria - suited a fast paced counter attacking side as the third man in the midfield. Signed to play in a slow paced posession style. Why? For £60m better options for that style of football.
Falcao - at the time had Rooney, RvP, Mata, Welbeck, Januzaj and Wilson able to play in the front two positions, yet we are spending a fortune on a loan for someone who has a style similar to what we had (RvP). Total waste of money.
I think the main problem has been we don't have a indentifiable style, and just seem to sign players who have shown quality elsewhere, not players who can come in and play the Manchester United way.
Fellaini - played his best football as a target man in the hole at Everton. Never good enough to displace the other options we had as #10s at the the time (RvP, Rooney, Kagawa). Pointless signing. Never creative enough from deep to play deeper for a side like United either.
Mata - sensational as a second striker for Chelsea. Again, we have several players in that position. Sort of player who relies on pace and movement around him. Doesn't fit into the team sadly, and warms the bench. Will most likely be sold in the summer for a loss.
Blind - arguably the only one that makes sense. Bought in as cover for Carrick, and can play in several positions. He's done a lot better than I think most thought he would. Still needs someone physical to partner him though.
Herrera - we spent more £££ on him than Chelsea did on Fabregas, for him to sit on our bench. Will never establish himself as the main #10, and if LvG doesn't think he's strong enough defensively to play deeper, why did we waste £28m on him? I rate him but it's clear van Gaal doesn't.
Di Maria - suited a fast paced counter attacking side as the third man in the midfield. Signed to play in a slow paced posession style. Why? For £60m better options for that style of football.
Falcao - at the time had Rooney, RvP, Mata, Welbeck, Januzaj and Wilson able to play in the front two positions, yet we are spending a fortune on a loan for someone who has a style similar to what we had (RvP). Total waste of money.
I think the main problem has been we don't have a indentifiable style, and just seem to sign players who have shown quality elsewhere, not players who can come in and play the Manchester United way.
Falcao would be banging in the goals at Chelsea.
You are only as good as your last transfer window seemingly and ours is both too early to judge and actually looking pretty good with a long term view. Arsenal and in particular Chelsea had good windows, but that also had consistency in their backroom staff, money men and managers who knew what they needed to improve.
We had a new working relationship between manager and directors, manager and players, tactical style of play, backroom staff.......all of it and the end result was we overpaid across the average by what? £10 million or so? You think Southampton were giving up England's left-back for the next decade cheap? Bilbao were suddenly going to start selling players beneath their release clause? Di Maria was going to come cut price because Madrid had new toys? Blind and Rojo look like good business, Fosu-Mensah came for peanuts and looks like a future first teamer, Valdes for free. People get too caught up on the Falcao transfer/loan and then declare our whole summer as "poor", we won't even be buying the guy and yes we obviously had to pay loan fees and wages but thats in hindsight, you really wasn't tugging one out when he signed like the rest of us?
Fact is United are up there with Madrid and Barca in that we are hugely popular, hugely rich and willing last summer to spend it and everyone knew, it was open season on making money from us. Let's see what we do next summer with a year of stability for the first time since what Summer 2012?
We had a new working relationship between manager and directors, manager and players, tactical style of play, backroom staff.......all of it and the end result was we overpaid across the average by what? £10 million or so? You think Southampton were giving up England's left-back for the next decade cheap? Bilbao were suddenly going to start selling players beneath their release clause? Di Maria was going to come cut price because Madrid had new toys? Blind and Rojo look like good business, Fosu-Mensah came for peanuts and looks like a future first teamer, Valdes for free. People get too caught up on the Falcao transfer/loan and then declare our whole summer as "poor", we won't even be buying the guy and yes we obviously had to pay loan fees and wages but thats in hindsight, you really wasn't tugging one out when he signed like the rest of us?
Fact is United are up there with Madrid and Barca in that we are hugely popular, hugely rich and willing last summer to spend it and everyone knew, it was open season on making money from us. Let's see what we do next summer with a year of stability for the first time since what Summer 2012?
Agreed. And I wouldn't be totally shocked if José is interested if you guys decide not to keep him.
He'd probably love to make him a success in the PL and "get one over" on United who couldn't make it work.
Agreed, I've been saying that to my mates and have been getting stick for it. Any of Falcao, RVP or Rooney would be banging in the goals if they were playing as the front man in Chelsea's set up. Likewise, if we had signed Costa and played him alongside RVP with Rooney in midfield in a dysfunctional setup, he too would be struggling.
Regarding our transfers this season, we're playing catchup. We persisted with over the hill and average players for too long and now we have to overspend to get players in because we're desperate. I still think all our signings bar Falcao will end up being top players for us though, albeit overpriced bar Blind and Rojo.
That's my bad. I should have made it clearer that I meant transfers that have been conducted with the aim to win trophies. I don't think Pelle and co like the other poster said belong to that category of significant transfers that make a difference at the top. Those are the ones we are competing for and I think they generally have a low percentage of success.
Rojo and blind, even di maria hasn't played more than 20 matches and you label them flop?
Same goes with shaw and falcao
Same goes with shaw and falcao
Yeah, good lists, I think a few of those might've been from 2009, but it's there or there abouts so no worries.
Looking at those lists is exactly what I'm talking about - the most successful transfers of us compared to the two teams we've been competing with over the last 5 years, and the quality pales in comparison to the point of it being laughable. The fact that in that same time period we've blown 40m on Mata, 30m on Berbatov, 30m on Shaw, 28m on Fellaini, 30m on Herrera, 60m on Di Maria and none of them are in your list of 5 players (a list that contains Hernandez and Smalling...) is perhaps the best indication that something here isn't right...
Having that many wildly over-priced signings that are (thus far) almost all misses, while players like Aguero, Toure, Hazard, Matic, Oscar, Silva and Fabregas have been flowing into our direct rivals (for less money than we've been signing our misses with), to me, points to a fault somewhere in our approach. I just wonder where, because it spreads over 3 managers now.
And that's what the OP was doing - asking a question, rather than simply 'complaining'.