Why is our passing so garbage?

[No Love]

It’s only passing, thankfully. It’s not like it’s anything important when it comes to football.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

It’s a few things but our lack of athleticism is very telling. People just don’t move to give passing options, not with enough intensity anyway. McT and Bruno only head in one direction so at times even today they left Mainoo with no option because as soon as he got the ball they just ran forward putting him at risk of turning it over.

Then we have people that just choose the wrong pass. Today for example McT wins the ball high up, Spurs are in trouble. Rasmus is running at empty space and is maybe 10 yards infront of McT. Garnacho is about the same but his run is heading out wide which is pulling a defender away from the Ramus run.

McT for some stupid reason ignores these runs and has somehow spotted Bruno way out on the wing and gives the ball out to him killing any danger, other occasions you can see them looking at the right choice but looks like they are doubting it and just end up sitting on the ball till it’s too late and the moment has passed.

Then there is the whole just not being very good at passing. Bruno might be a creative passer but he’s a bad passer. He can occasionaly astonish with amazing long passes but then somehow screw up a simple 10 yard pass and make it more ridiculously harder to control than it should be by like firing it in at knee height instead of crisp and along the ground.

We just don't have a selection of good midfielders.

 

[Bwuk]

The midfield set up is laughable.

I seen a heat map from today where Mainoo was basically on the CBs, the other midfielders were close to the striker and we had nothing on the right.

We don’t have players who want the ball.

 

[Borys]

The midfield set up is laughable.

I seen a heat map from today where Mainoo was basically on the CBs, the other midfielders were close to the striker and we had nothing on the right.

We don’t have players who want the ball.

The manager sets us up in this way that #6 does not have any passing options to progress the ball. It's been evident since the first game of the season.
Bruno is not the answer for that, I don't trust him on the ball just like I did not trust Pogba. Mainoo or Mount maybe are the answer but it seems to me like ETH is setting us up to play through wings rather than through the middle.

 

[RopersReturn]

If EtH’s master plan is to eventually rely more on the wing(s) and do away with the midfield, then why didn’t the wingers run back and help more. Mainoo was basically isolated for the second Spurs goal as far as I could tell, Rashford was too far forward along with Erikson and Bruno.

 

[Borys]

If EtH’s master plan is to eventually rely more on the wing(s) and do away with the midfield, then why didn’t the wingers run back and help more. Mainoo was basically isolated for the second Spurs goal as far as I could tell, Rashford was too far forward along with Erikson and Bruno.

We just keep doing the same mistakes the whole season.
cutback goals
#6 isolated in midfield
two #10s staying high up the pitch
progressing the ball through the fullbacks
launching long balls for possibly the worst (in the air) front 3 in the league

 

[Bwuk]

The manager sets us up in this way that #6 does not have any passing options to progress the ball. It's been evident since the first game of the season.
Bruno is not the answer for that, I don't trust him on the ball just like I did not trust Pogba. Mainoo or Mount maybe are the answer but it seems to me like ETH is setting us up to play through wings rather than through the middle.

I don’t think there’s any midfielders in the world who’d perform in our set up. Especially with how physical and athletic players are nowadays, we are so vunerable to counter attacks and cut backs.

 

[The Irish Connection]

That 2nd half earlier was infuriating. KEPT giving the ball away. Any time we won it back it was gone again within two or three passes.
Between that and set pieces, oh and finishing chances, it’s chronic.
The way Ten Hag sets us up in midfield is not working either.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Its one of those weird things, this really has been an issue since before Fergie left, yeah we had Scholes and Carrick who could hit a good diagonal ball. But for the most part our inter changing passing in the final third was not great and out build up play was sluggish.
It deteriorated under Moyes (what didn't).

LVG came in and tried to train us do play possession football, but sloths could of moved the ball quicker than us, so he basically reverted to hoofing it to Fellaini when ever possible.

Then we had Mourinho, who had zero interest in improving our passing his plan was to sit back and try to nick a goal or 2.

Ole again just wanted us to counter attack,

Rangnick by most accounts treated the players like kids in training because he felt they were so badly coached and like children they rebelled.

And Ten Hag has come in and abandoned his Ajax tactics because he clearly doesn't think the players are capable of playing quick passing triangles.

Like most of our problems it just points to severe cultural problems at the club.

 

[Grande]

Its one of those weird things, this really has been an issue since before Fergie left, yeah we had Scholes and Carrick who could hit a good diagonal ball. But for the most part our inter changing passing in the final third was not great and out build up play was sluggish.
It deteriorated under Moyes (what didn't).

LVG came in and tried to train us do play possession football, but sloths could of moved the ball quicker than us, so he basically reverted to hoofing it to Fellaini when ever possible.

Then we had Mourinho, who had zero interest in improving our passing his plan was to sit back and try to nick a goal or 2.

Ole again just wanted us to counter attack,

Rangnick by most accounts treated the players like kids in training because he felt they were so badly coached and like children they rebelled.

And Ten Hag has come in and abandoned his Ajax tactics because he clearly doesn't think the players are capable of playing quick passing triangles.

Like most of our problems it just points to severe cultural problems at the club.

We point at the managers again and again, but I think the truth is neither our owners nor our fans have had the heart for open heart surgery - and the patience demanded i nreconvalecence.

 

[tjb]

We point at the managers again and again, but I think the truth is neither our owners nor our fans have had the heart for open heart surgery - and the patience demanded i nreconvalecence.

I'd argue that we always have open heart surgery with terrible surgeons.

Moyes had 2 signings sold/ released 0 in 1 season, Van Gaal bought 13 sold/released 15 in 2 seasons, Mourinho bought 11 sold/released 9 in 2.5 seasons, Ole bought 12 sold/released 9, and Ten Haag has bought 9 and signed/releeased 11 in 1.5 seasons. That's a lot of turnover for 5 permanent managers. Meanwhile in that time span Barca/Bayern/Chelsea/Madrid have had similar amount of manager with success, yet still felt the need to replace them. Ours have failed and we have fans talking about stability and time.

To break it down further on average our managers have signed 9.4 players and have sold 8.8 players. That is almost an entire 11 per manager. Yet people still blame the players despite stark changes in squad profile from season to season. For clarification, these figures do not include players that weren't included in the squads regularly/ or had playing time. So keepers like Bayindir are not included.

The club may not be the best structured, but with the lack of success of these managers after leaving us and the number of players they bought and sold, people need to be honest and admit that these managers are mostly to blame for our problems on the pitch over the years. We keep failing managers, who struggled throughout their tenures for way too long. This also explains our spending. Every summer is a war chest to cover gaps in their previous seasons. A lot of these purchases were high figure purchases with high profile talented being delivered. None of our managers, even Moyes, can say they didn't receive at least one high profile signing. Arteta literally got one this season with the signing of Rice after 3 years. Liverpool's first under Klopp was Van Dijk in 2018, 2.5 seasons into Klopp's reign.

 

[redflash]

I'm far more concerned with our inability to do the defensive basics. Our positions and unwillingness to pressure or tackle have cost us so many goals this season. I don't like this group of players and I have to support them.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

We point at the managers again and again, but I think the truth is neither our owners nor our fans have had the heart for open heart surgery - and the patience demanded i nreconvalecence.

Yeah I agree, I don’t think the level of gutting required is ever going to happen.

Realistically to begin to sort this mess out it’s going to take years of patience and ruthlessness. And to be honest probably substantial losses.

• We need to stop spending money on transfers untill we have basically gutted and replaced the recruitment staff and scouting net work (which what we are looking at minimal summer if 2025), can you imagine if we only made loan moves and small moves till the how angry the fan base would be?
• Being ruthless with getting rid of players who contribute to the very obvious cultural issues at the club. Probably a good place to start would bering up Rangnick and Armas and findout who was difficult at there time at the club and start by shipping them off.
• Then stop renewing contracts of players who would leave for free cos it makes the books look better. Don’t give out big pay rises to players who have a few good months and years of patchy form
• Have a thorough investigation of the coaching/training/fitness staff, facilities and support staff and ingrained training methods that must be part of our infrastructure, you can’t have the same issues with our style of play for over a decade going through several managers and-there not be an over arching issue with the coaching/training philosophy at the club.
• A freeze on hiring ex player until we have a healthier culture at the club
• Heavy investment in Carrington and club infrastructure in general show the players that the club is cared for and isn’t just falling into disrepair.

That kind of process is going to take years. Fans loose their minds if we haven’t spent 100 million by the 1st of June.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I'd argue that we always have open heart surgery with terrible surgeons.

Moyes had 2 signings sold/ released 0 in 1 season, Van Gaal bought 13 sold/released 15 in 2 seasons, Mourinho bought 11 sold/released 9 in 2.5 seasons, Ole bought 12 sold/released 9, and Ten Haag has bought 9 and signed/releeased 11 in 1.5 seasons. That's a lot of turnover for 5 permanent managers. Meanwhile in that time span Barca/Bayern/Chelsea/Madrid have had similar amount of manager with success, yet still felt the need to replace them. Ours have failed and we have fans talking about stability and time.

To break it down further on average our managers have signed 9.4 players and have sold 8.8 players. That is almost an entire 11 per manager. Yet people still blame the players despite stark changes in squad profile from season to season. For clarification, these figures do not include players that weren't included in the squads regularly/ or had playing time. So keepers like Bayindir are not included.

The club may not be the best structured, but with the lack of success of these managers after leaving us and the number of players they bought and sold, people need to be honest and admit that these managers are mostly to blame for our problems on the pitch over the years. We keep failing managers, who struggled throughout their tenures for way too long. This also explains our spending. Every summer is a war chest to cover gaps in their previous seasons. A lot of these purchases were high figure purchases with high profile talented being delivered. None of our managers, even Moyes, can say they didn't receive at least one high profile signing. Arteta literally got one this season with the signing of Rice after 3 years. Liverpool's first under Klopp was Van Dijk in 2018, 2.5 seasons into Klopp's reign.

We buy and .. well I was about to say sell but we rarely sell players, but we at least buy a lot of players and spend a lot of money. But no matter how much we spend, who is the manager the problems are the same, yeah we can hit a half decent counter attack, but ask us to retain the ball, break down a defense as a cohesive team, move the ball quickly around midfield, or even position ourselves correctly in defense then we just can't do it. We just always look like a disjointed team no matter who the manager is and who the players are.

Plus no matter who we buy, no matter who the manager is players just seem to come in and regress. This goes back a decade. You can't have the same issues no matter who the manager is and who the players are and it not be something that runs much deeper.

So this isn't just a current players issue or a current manager and his first team coaching staff issue, or even just issues with people like Murtough and Fletcher. The surgery we need isn't just players (though we obviously need address the squad attitude), the surgery we need is in the deeplying issues at the club. Everything from the coaching and training philosophy, to recruitments, youth training, Physio, catering, facilities needs a proper gutting out and investigation.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I'm far more concerned with our inability to do the defensive basics. Our positions and unwillingness to pressure or tackle have cost us so many goals this season. I don't like this group of players and I have to support them.

This was Ragnicks big issue when he came in. All the report were he spent ages basically just going over the basics of positioning and how to defend as a team because it was clearly an Issue. And the players just briefed against him and acted like children because he had hired an American coach who obviously had to be like Ted Lasso.

Here we are over 2 years later, with some new players a new manger, different coaching staff and the same issues.

 

[tjb]

We buy and .. well I was about to say sell but we rarely sell players, but we at least buy a lot of players and spend a lot of money. But no matter how much we spend, who is the manager the problems are the same, yeah we can hit a half decent counter attack, but ask us to retain the ball, break down a defense as a cohesive team, move the ball quickly around midfield, or even position ourselves correctly in defense then we just can't do it. We just always look like a disjointed team no matter who the manager is and who the players are.

Plus no matter who we buy, no matter who the manager is players just seem to come in and regress. This goes back a decade. You can't have the same issues no matter who the manager is and who the players are and it not be something that runs much deeper.

So this isn't just a current players issue or a current manager and his first team coaching staff issue, or even just issues with people like Murtough and Fletcher. The surgery we need isn't just players (though we obviously need address the squad attitude), the surgery we need is in the deeplying issues at the club. Everything from the coaching and training philosophy, to recruitments, youth training, Physio, catering, facilities needs a proper gutting out and investigation.

I believe that as a club, we have been accustomed to success and believe that it is as simple as employing anyone semi-competent. The combination of the quality of the manager, the quality of the players, the quality of the squad, and the quality of the coaching staff affect how well we play on the pitch. There's nothing more. Our problem upstairs has been that the Glazers and their team have not been fully vested in footballing affairs, allowing managers far more latitude than they should have. None of these managers have been exceptional, and none have demonstrated an inkling of success since their departure. We've only had five permanent managers. One was Moyes, another was Ole, both of whom were manifestly unqualified previous to their arrival. It's no surprise that they weren't up to the challenge. So, of the three managers we chose aside from those two, Jose and LVG were obviously past it. Jose had a horrible 2015/2016 season where he displayed all of the issues he would have with us during his tenure, heavily suggesting that the game had passed him by and we hired him at the starting point of his downward spiral. As a manager, his downfall is similar to Torres, where he had already started to perform poorly, but as a club, we were hoping it was a one-off period, not expecting that mediocrity would be his new normal. Since leave, Jose has shown that his failure at United was of his own doing. Similarly, Van Gaal had already shown all of his flaws in previous appointment prior to his arrival. His peak was in the 90's. He had negative eccentricities, stubborness, recklessnes favoritism and lack of urgency not suitable for a club looking for a turnaround. I'd argue that out of all our managers, he did the most damage. The idea was that we'd hire a big character to steer us in the right direction as a leader ( similar to why we hired Jose). However, in both LVG and Jose, we got negative big characters that led the club astray rather than forward with their antics and egos. Ten Haag was the only modern manager we hired that we should have hired. However, simply hiring managers like that does not guarantee that they will produce. Chelsea had a similar situation with Andre Villas-Boas. These are managers taking the next step in their careers, needing to prove that they are good enough to hang at the very top level. With these type of hires, due to the weakness of their leagues and profile of their clubs, there's a 50/50 chance in fails or succeeds. Monitoring their performance is key to finding out if they are actually the right fit or if they simply can't step up to the plate. Especially when you consider how tough the Premier League is and how strong the managers they are competing against are. This is where United failed. The club treated Ten Haag like the solution, rather than someone under evaluation to assess if they are actually the solution. From the club interviews to the stories about him leading us to success despite us struggling to start last season. Where the club should simply have been introducing him to the fans, we manufactured fanfare around him like he was a proven entity like Pep, Klopp or Jose.

The issue, in my opinion, is that we view these managers' failures as a club failure rather than investigating why each manager has failed. It's always left at the feet of the players. There's always a blank slate with everyone taking responsibility for failures on the pitch, when in actuality, like at any other top club, the buck should always fall with the manager unless the manager shows that his system is actually working. Something which none of our manaagers showed in their time here. An example of this would be Wenger in the 2010's, playing good football, with chances created, winning handlily against most teams, but having issues in big games and more difficult away games where quality of players were put to the test. Bendtnar could score hat-tricks against PSV, but couldn't do anything against Chelsea, City, or Liverpool. That's evidence of lacking quality. Beating who you're supposed to beat, playing good football, but not having enough to sustain the success to challenge for the league. At United, Ten Haag, Moyes, LVG and Mourinho have rarely shown that quality. Whilst we already knew that Ole didn't have that in him. It is a failure on the club's part to hire the wrong manager, but not for anything else besides the expense of transfers and sales in regard to on pitch failures. Their fault off the pitch lies in their inability to accept mistakes quickly enough to move forward regarding player sales and managerial sackings. Everything we've done in the previous 10 years has been predicated on optics and short-term media opinions, which have usually backfired. This has taken shape in the form of optic-driven leaks, briefings, transfer announcements, managerial hirings, sales, and managerial dismissals. Why? We had people in charge of the country's largest non-state sports institution who were unfamiliar with football and uninterested in Britain in general. A club where everything is a narrative, where transfers lead to massive shirt sales, where success is elevated and failures are extremely scrutinized. So, when recruiting a big manager and the club is perceived adversely, senior management has consistently given full control to the newly popular managers, almost as if we're begging them to take the job, who are then charged with bringing the club back to its former glory without much interference or evaluation. LVG was allowed to tear up the squad, impose an unstable 352 and make philosophy-driven excuses. Transfers for players such as Pogba were being completed without grasping how to utilize him, as he was popular. Players like Martial were preserved long past their sell-by dates because they had support from certain segments of the fan base. Briefs about the grounds for firing a manager were provided months in advance to save face. For Moyes, LVG and ETH we have waited until seasons are completely destroyed to fire these managers. For me, the British media will always be pro-manager and will always take a more conservative approach. However, as a club, the performance, results, progress, and business of football should always far outweigh the drivels of the press, yet those drivels have resulted in stays of execution and the hiring of Ole on a permanent basis.

The most serious fault, in my opinion, has been the lack of knowledge on how to evaluate our managers. What constitutes managerial failure? For us, it has all been about media and results. Essentially, we will hand a manager the keys and will not intervene unless we have completely collapsed. That's the British media's dream for how clubs should treat managers, but it's also a definite way to lower standards, especially when the managers aren't the best in class. We've seen directors collaborate with managers on transfers, but no one has genuinely overseen the manager's day-to-day responsibilities. Woodward wasn't embedded in the football, Arnold admitted to taking a passive approach on the footballing side, and Murtough was a support in regard to transfers, so he did not oversee Ole or ETH. For ten years, we've had no one to analyze tactical mistakes, no one to criticize squad management, no one to question the consistency of in-game decisions, and no one to apply pressure when required. That's why the managers always seem shocked when they're sacked; that's why the players don't feel supported; and that's why it feels like it takes forever for us to make decisions as a club. Hopefully, INEOS will bring about change in this area; however, I do not believe Ten Haag is the right manager to lead their initiative. In fact, I'd argue that dismissing him would demonstrate that we have a senior management staff that is actively monitoring how far we are from becoming what we need to be as a club under the current manager.

 

[spinblade]

This is it, the rest of your post highlights it significantly. Fans are looking at this too narrow minded to objectively consider all the moving parts. Club philosophy is supposed to come from the hierarchy not the manager. Because the entire clubs structure has to reflect the directive of that philosophy at various levels from recruitment to the coaching.

Look at the players that have been acquired in the last two major windows and see if there's any consensus behind the approach for the first team to be identified as one that keeps possession. I've said this throughout the summer United are putting a team together not building one. Who knows what the scope of the first team is in the next five years. There's a very momentary feel about how the club conduct themselves nothing is definitive.

So you're telling me Spurs just instantly changed their entire club top-down structure, hierarchy, philosophy as well as their manager in six months? No, all they did was change the manager. Same with Villa. Completely different play style within months of Emery coming in. Has nothing to do with them making some major alterations to their behind-the-scenes structure, philosophy or anything else. Villa haven't been devising a master plan for Emery behind the scenes for ten years or whatever. They've just been getting any manager who'll walk through the door for the past decade. Same goes for Spurs. They've had Mourinho and Conte back to back. There's been zero structural preparation for Ange's style behind the scenes. They were to the point where'd they'd take almost any manager who'd agree a contract. There was no complex structural planning. They've just been scatter-gunning managers for years with no thought of their style. And in terms of player staff, all Ange and Emery had to work with were the motley bunches bought by several managers they found when they arrived there. There had been no five-year structural and transfer planning for Ange's and Emery's arrivals or whatever. They both just got on with the job with the players they had and the morons behind the scenes who were there. Decent managers do that. Our post-Fergie idiots haven't been able to do that, besides LvG who was trying to implement a play style.

 

[redflash]

This was Ragnicks big issue when he came in. All the report were he spent ages basically just going over the basics of positioning and how to defend as a team because it was clearly an Issue. And the players just briefed against him and acted like children because he had hired an American coach who obviously had to be like Ted Lasso.

Here we are over 2 years later, with some new players a new manger, different coaching staff and the same issues.

Yeah I remeber him complaining about this. This is why I think we need to keep EtH for better or worse. The problem with our football club is the balance of power is completely wrong.

The footballing fundamentals suffer because we have too many players who are focused on the things they like to do and not the things they're being asked to do. Positioning, running tackling pressing theyjust don't bother with on so many occasions.

We need to get back to a place where the players in the team know they have to do what is asked of them pr they won't play. That will never happen as long as we keep sacking managers and letting the people who are really responsible get away scot free.

I don't know the answers to redressing the balance of power and although I wasn't behind SJR coming in (mainly because it meant the glazers staying) I think his team and their history of excellence in analytical diagnosis of sporting performance may help to highlight some of the squads deficiencies.

 

[Redstain]

So you're telling me Spurs just instantly changed their entire club top-down structure, hierarchy, philosophy as well as their manager in six months? No, all they did was change the manager. Same with Villa. Completely different play style within months of Emery coming in. Has nothing to do with them making some major alterations to their behind-the-scenes structure, philosophy or anything else. Villa haven't been devising a master plan for Emery behind the scenes for ten years or whatever. They've just been getting any manager who'll walk through the door for the past decade. Same goes for Spurs. They've had Mourinho and Conte back to back. There's been zero structural preparation for Ange's style behind the scenes. They were to the point where'd they'd take almost any manager who'd agree a contract. There was no complex structural planning. They've just been scatter-gunning managers for years with no thought of their style. And in terms of player staff, all Ange and Emery had to work with were the motley bunches bought by several managers they found when they arrived there. There had been no five-year structural and transfer planning for Ange's and Emery's arrivals or whatever. They both just got on with the job with the players they had and the morons behind the scenes who were there. Decent managers do that. Our post-Fergie idiots haven't been able to do that, besides LvG who was trying to implement a play style.

Funnily enough I agree with most of what you've responded, the post your replying to was made in September, the difference between that period and now is that Erik Ten Hag has proven himself to be tactically insufficient and a manager who lacks competence at the highest level. He has failed his responsibility as a manager and if every level of management is to be accountable an excellent structure will not compensate that level of a compromise. Subsequently, within identifying the next manager it should still come from the hierarchy being revamped which regardless of opinions is actively in the process of happening. I wouldn't trust Murtough or the former Arnold to supersede identifying the next manager they have proven themselves inept.

 

[sunama]

Ange came into a side that was notoriously bad in possession under Mourinho/Conte. Spurs turn up at Old Trafford today with an injury crisis of their own and have 64% of the ball.

I can't believe how little progress ETH has made in improving us in possession. We still can't string 3 passes together, players themselves don't trust any to be able to keep the ball so it's just constant hollywood passes over the top of the opposition defence.

Well, the stats prove that we are a long ball team.
We simply aren't good at receiving/passing the ball under pressure.
We bought a ball playing GK, to hoof the ball to our strikers.
My question is that if we are going to use those tactics, why don't we buy a couple of tall strikers (they won't cost much) and go for it.
We shall soon play Wolves and I have no doubt whatsoever, that they'll play us off the park.
We could win, but it will be individual brilliance that wins, not our tactics.

 

[sunama]

We point at the managers again and again, but I think the truth is neither our owners nor our fans have had the heart for open heart surgery - and the patience demanded i nreconvalecence.

I do.
When Ralf R said that the squad needs to be gutted, I wanted the gutting to start that Summer.
Unfortunately, they got rid of Ralf R and we stuck with the shithouse players who can't pass the ball or run much.
We need to gut this squad.

 

[Member 117152]

Onana, Martinez, Shaw, Mount, Mainoo, maybe Hojlund when he’s older are the only players who would fit into a possession based team.

The rest of our squad just doesn’t have the technical ability in tight areas. A lot of the blame is on “the United way”.

It used to work to counter with plenty of chaotic moments. These days it’s just not viable to win every week.

The technical ability of average players built in the Pep mould this past decade has gone to a level where sidelike Brighton can play tiki taka.

They ain’t anything like a Paul Scholes or Pirlo talent wise but as a unit it’s really tough with the improvement in tactics and pressing overall.

Kills a lot of enjoyment in the game though for my money. Tonnes of bang average players with very select defined roles.

Those who rise above Pogba, Bruno often get hammered down to fit these confined and I imagine in the future quite primitive systems.

I believe the past 10 years have been a football dark age of sorts for talent given the players around in the late 00’s.

Over-coaching and micro managing maybe a big issue with that lack of imagination at times.

 

[spinblade]

Because Bruno.

No effort to keep things ticking, to remain calm, to stay composed and try to control possession for a minute or two, to frustrate the other side. He demands the ball all the time and every time he gets it the only thing in his head instantly is; killer pass, killer pass, killer pass, killer pass. It rarely works, obviously, so that leads to the opposition instantly getting it back and swarming us.

I'd fecking love for him to be dropped to see if Mount can be a more composed creator. I'm sick and tired of Mr. Moments.

I remember once during an interview, the reporter asked Bruno something like if he's aware that it might frustrate fans that he gives the ball away so much, and he replied with some crap about it's his job to be the creator and to take risks. No, it's your job to hone your craft until when you take on a risky pass, dink or lob, it's a 90 percenter every time. It is not your job to get the ball on the halfway line, instantly turn and float a blind, 10% success rate airball up a channel in the hopes someone runs onto it. And if you're not certain that you can complete raking cross-field diagonals at a 90% rate, then it's your job to stay in your fecking lane and keep it short, sharp and sweet.

He wants to be a KdB but the difference between him and KdB is that when KdB decides to uncork what looks like a risky, raking channel ball, it's calculated and he knows he is going to hit his man or his man's run 90% of the time, otherwise he won't chance it. If it's not a 90% ball, he'll just drop out, turn and pass a little 5-yarder on the ground, keep the ball ticking over, lending the ball and getting it back until he finds himself in a position where he's finally able to rake that ball. Bruno just thinks the act of whacking a risky, raking channel ball, whether it reaches its target or not, is where his job begins and ends. If it looks good, it's good, is his attitude. Feck it being an actual useful ball or anything though. And so all he does is piss possession away and put us on the back foot as his wasteful brainfarts dribble out for goal kicks or get snaffled up by the opposition's back line.

And also, what fcks me off about him is that when he goes for these Instagram long passes and lobs, when he does actually find his target, the target is often isolated and surrounded by opposition defenders. You have to be sure that if you're going for a long pass, that the player receiving the pass will have support within seconds of receiving the ball. He just doesn't have the football IQ to get shite like that. And added to that, I don't think anyone can change that with him. He seems to think short pass-and-move possession stuff is beneath him. He sees himself as KdB-esque, Pirlo-esque, Dunga-esque player, raking Instagram diagonals across the park. But firstly, he doesn't have the ability and secondly, he doesn't seem to understand that those players only make those types of passes when they're 90% sure they can complete them. They don't spend the whole game swanning around floating 50-yard passes from all over the pitch. He seems to think the Pirlos, KdBs and Dungas of the world spend the whole game spraying passes into the four winds and he wants to be like them. But they didn't and they don't; they keep it short, clean and simple, keeping possession and waiting patiently for an opportunity to appear where they can rake out a long pass they know they'll complete nine times out of 10.

 

[Marwood]

The rest of our squad just doesn’t have the technical ability in tight areas. A lot of the blame is on “the United way”.

It used to work to counter with plenty of chaotic moments. These days it’s just not viable to win every week.

When was counter attacking with chaotic moments the United way of winning games every week?

A spell under Ole maybe but it was never the case before that.

 

[redcarpet]

Because Bruno.

No effort to keep things ticking, to remain calm, to stay composed and try to control possession for a minute or two, to frustrate the other side. He demands the ball all the time and every time he gets it the only thing in his head instantly is; killer pass, killer pass, killer pass, killer pass. It rarely works, obviously, so that leads to the opposition instantly getting it back and swarming us.

I'd fecking love for him to be dropped to see if Mount can be a more composed creator. I'm sick and tired of Mr. Moments.

I think Bruno can be a valuable member of the squad but he has nobody on the pitch to be accountable to, and he doesn't have the level of calm and intelligence to do it himself. I remember last season there were times when Casemiro had words with him. We need more characters like that. And Bruno should not be captain.

 

[Partridge]

11 years down the road, and it's been a rollercoaster. It's shambolic the club is still as paralysed as it is. Change is coming, but bloody hell..football eh.

 

[spinblade]

I think Bruno can be a valuable member of the squad but he has nobody on the pitch to be accountable to, and he doesn't have the level of calm and intelligence to do it himself. I remember last season there were times when Casemiro had words with him. We need more characters like that. And Bruno should not be captain.

Yeah, Case got on him quite a bit. And I remember there was one game against I think it was Palace last season at Selhurst Park where EtH shouted something at him which was probably along the lines of "Do you think you could, you know, maybe actually keep the fecking ball for five seconds?" because Bruno looked a bit peeved and then kind of sulkily laid off a short pass and then looked pretty jaded for the rest of the match. Bruno seems to think short pass-and-move football is beneath him. He sees himself as some Pirlo-esque player spraying long balls left, right and centre from wherever he finds himself on the pitch. But he doesn't have the football IQ or ability for that. And I've also noticed that EtH seems to have given up on trying to rein him in and just lets him do whatever he wants now.

On a side note, EtH pretty much just lets everyone do whatever they want now. Does anyone remember by any chance that training video that surfaced during EtH's first preseason where he was heard yelling something like "Keep the fecking ball on the ground"? Does anyone remember that? What happened to that? Two bad results and the guy just throws his entire philosophy, if he ever had one, out the window.

And also, what kind of captain can Bruno be if his touch is never right? It's a captain's job to be on everyone to get their fecking touch right and get their head in the game and cherish possession. "Get your touch right. Keep it short, sharp and simple. Build up play. You're playing like fecking prima donnas. Get your fecking touch right and keep it short and simple until we get in their heads. Stop giving the fecking ball away." It's the captain's job to set the standards. But everyone knows Bruno can't say that kind of thing to his teammates because he knows and they know that all he does when he's gets the ball is spray ill-advised, low-percentage airballs straight to our opponents. It would be pure hypocrisy. The guy can't be our captain because he doesn't set the standards and therefore can't demand them from others.

 

[sunama]

... the surgery we need is in the deeplying issues at the club. Everything from the coaching and training philosophy, to recruitments, youth training, Physio, catering, facilities needs a proper gutting out and investigation.

This summarises what is wrong with our club.
From top to bottom, we need fixing.

Over the years I have read so many comments about how we have "turned a corner" and we are "one player away from being contenders".
The truth is that we need to replace the vast majority staff at the club, as they simply aren't good enough. Failure has now become acceptable.

Even fans on this very forum deem 4th place as a trophy and noteworthy. Standards have dropped that low.
If I see a manager finishing in 4th place and not winning a trophy, IMO, he must be fired immediately. Even Arsenal who popularised the 4th place trophy have moved on from 4th place. They too realise that 4th place is failure.

 

[Dominos]

That first half... Unbelievable really. Hot potato football at it's finest.

Ball retention of a Sunday league side.

Whilst the technical quality of our players is clearly an issue, it's clear Ten Hag's instructions are to try and score as quickly as possible every time we win the ball back. This has resulted in our players rushing everything they do, so many one time passes and flicks because we have no patience in the build up, a tendency to play killer passes when the pass isn't even on. All of this leads to endless turnovers which the opposition take advantage of and why our defending looks so bad.

I've said it for years, every time the opposition has a chance on our goal, rewind the clock 10 seconds and watch one of our players needlessly lose the ball in easy possession.

 

[Marwood]

That first half... Unbelievable really. Hot potato football at it's finest.

Ball retention of a Sunday league side.

Whilst the technical quality of our players is clearly an issue, it's clear Ten Hag's instructions are to try and score as quickly as possible every time we win the ball back. This has resulted in our players rushing everything they do, so many one time passes and flicks because we have no patience in the build up, a tendency to play killer passes when the pass isn't even on. All of this leads to endless turnovers which the opposition take advantage of and why our defending looks so bad.

I've said it for years, every time the opposition has a chance on our goal, rewind the clock 10 seconds and watch one of our players needlessly lose the ball in easy possession.

It's weird but agree we look rushed. Except at the back, where I think we look slow in moving it about.

This team just hasn't a clue how to control tempo.

 

[Hammondo]

That first half... Unbelievable really. Hot potato football at it's finest.

Ball retention of a Sunday league side.

Whilst the technical quality of our players is clearly an issue, it's clear Ten Hag's instructions are to try and score as quickly as possible every time we win the ball back. This has resulted in our players rushing everything they do, so many one time passes and flicks because we have no patience in the build up, a tendency to play killer passes when the pass isn't even on. All of this leads to endless turnovers which the opposition take advantage of and why our defending looks so bad.

I've said it for years, every time the opposition has a chance on our goal, rewind the clock 10 seconds and watch one of our players needlessly lose the ball in easy possession.

We play a 4-4-2, that does not help.

 

[poleglass red]

He won't be missed

 

[Drainy]

We play a 4-4-2, that does not help.

Do we do much passing when out of possession?

 

[Hammondo]

Do we do much passing when out of possession?

?

 

[Drainy]

?

The formation is 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 when out of possession.

When we have the ball we aren't in a 442

 

[Hammondo]

The formation is 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 when out of possession.

When we have the ball we aren't in a 442

When we have the ball we are defo 4-4-2. Bruno is almost never in midfield, hes next to our striker.

 

[Drainy]

When we have the ball we are defo 4-4-2. Bruno is almost never in midfield, hes next to our striker.

At the start of the season we were mixing between a 3-1-6 and a 3-2-5 with Casemiro dropping in to the three at the back and fullbacks pushing up or sometimes inverting or sometimes one of the attacking line dropping in (and very occasionally 2-3-5) but more recently it's been a more consistent 3-2-5, with Dalot as an inverted fullback

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The formation is 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 when out of possession.

When we have the ball we aren't in a 442

Correct. In possesion we are 3-1-2-4/3-2-5. With a fullback inverted either into Tue double pivot or as the second attacking midfielder.
Out of it we press with a 4-4-2. Then withdraw to a 4-5-1 if the press is broken, with Bruno supporting the winger and fullback on the side with the ball. Rarely the double pivot.

Its why the constant moaning from pundits and fans that Bruno 'isn't in midfield/is out of position" Never makes sense. Because he isn't postioned in any of the deeper lines in possesion. Plus tactically doesn't have the brief to support the double pivot out of possesion.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

That first half... Unbelievable really. Hot potato football at it's finest.

Ball retention of a Sunday league side.

Whilst the technical quality of our players is clearly an issue, it's clear Ten Hag's instructions are to try and score as quickly as possible every time we win the ball back. This has resulted in our players rushing everything they do, so many one time passes and flicks because we have no patience in the build up, a tendency to play killer passes when the pass isn't even on. All of this leads to endless turnovers which the opposition take advantage of and why our defending looks so bad.

I've said it for years, every time the opposition has a chance on our goal, rewind the clock 10 seconds and watch one of our players needlessly lose the ball in easy possession.

I refuse to blame "tactically rushing it" on players failing to find a team mate in space with a 5-10 yard pass repeatedly like on a loop. Yesterday wasn't a coaching issue. It was players being straight up unprofessional and indiscipline. Playing with no fear or respect for the head coach on the bench. They weren't taking any due care in basic fundamentals. Signs of them either not caring any longer/not beleiving in the game plan. So just playing for themselves rather than as a collective. Constantly passing on responsibility to a team mate till a ball went out or a teammate got pisssed off at chasing shadows and just took out an opponent. In and out of possesion

 

[Partridge]

I didn't watch the game thankfully, but did we at least manage to attack some space?