Why is our passing so garbage?

[Smores]

It's odd to be so shite at it with a full preseason under ETH. The big thing was he was supposed to be detail orientated with every movement under scrutiny and yet it seems its been unattended.

The transformation of AWB is notable so its not like there's no improvement but I really expected us to link and pass as a team by now.

 

[cyberman]

Wolves wouldnt have been tearing through our midfield if we had Rice last night amd casemiro wouldnt have been flogged to death with all the work he had to do.

Any DM would have been overran with the stupid giveaways we made and the odd defensive positions that left us in.
Rodri was much younger, had a lot less mileage on the clock and he struggled against breaks when he first came over until Pep sorted it out.
We played better when Eriksen came in and it’s not like he took Casemiros workload off of him

 

[DRJosh]

The formation was stretched way too far apart, imo. From back to front, left to right.

The word "compact" can be a bit of buzzword sometimes. But it's exactly what was missing yesterday.

By spreading out across the pitch, we made it really easy for Wolves to anticipate our passing lanes and make interceptions. They had the most interceptions of any team all weekend. I don't have any other stats to hand, but it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers for yesterday's match were historically high as well.

Team	Interceptions
1. Wolves	18​
2. Everton	13​
3. Sheffield United	11​
4. Liverpool	10​
5. Tottenham	10​
6. Luton	9​
7. Manchester United	8​
8. Nottingham Forest	8​
9. Brentford	8​
10. Arsenal	7​
11. Chelsea	7​
12. Newcastle	7​
13. Bournemouth	7​
14. Burnley	7​
15. Aston Villa	6​
16. West Ham	6​
17. Crystal Palace	4​
18. Manchester City	4​
19. Fulham	4​
20. Brighton	4​

Bring the defence closer to the midfield and force Bruno/Mount closer to Casemiro, and we'll make it all a hell of a lot easier for ourselves.

I think Wolves were forcing us to go wide at times as they packed the middle of the park. We didn't capitalise on Onana's passing range either.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Most of our players just seem utterly terrified of receiving the ball anytime there is an opposition player within 10 yards of them. It's really odd.

Yeah it’s been like this for ages. But then look at our team - Awb is never going to be good at these things. Casemiero is better than expected but he’s no Busquets. Bruno loves giving the ball away. Rashford’s always been a bout end product and stretching teams rather than reliable all round play. Garnacho is a kid.

Martinez and Onana are big steps forward in this regard. Fingers crossed Hojlund will be too. But we have lots to work on to make this team capable of proper dominant football.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Been this way for a decade, we always hit passes to the back foot, not in front of the players, always to square and rarely vertical, front foot passes.

Our passing releases the pressure on the other team because we willfully recycle it backwards rather than being forced to, this releases the squeeze on other teams, giving them time to set their shape and organise

It's fecking ridiculous and I've watched it for a decade.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Yeah it’s been like this for ages. But then look at our team - Awb is never going to be good at these things. Casemiero is better than expected but he’s no Busquets. Bruno loves giving the ball away. Rashford’s always been a bout end product and stretching teams rather than reliable all round play. Garnacho is a kid.

Martinez and Onana are big steps forward in this regard. Fingers crossed Hojlund will be too. But we have lots to work on to make this team capable of proper dominant football.

I agree with all of that but when we are at our worst there are teams with far worse technical players who don't struggle as much.

I think it's a mix of your point and then also maybe the pressure of playing for such a big club and worrying about giving the ball away (which ironically ends up inviting pressure and giving the ball away even more!).

It's one of the reasons I wasn't angry with Garnacho yesterday. I'd rather an attacker took risks and gave the ball away than was nervously forced back to Onana every time and end up losing the ball anyway in a more dangerous position because we've slowly commited our whole team forward to no effect.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

it’s been that way for years and seems to be a deep rooted issue. Regardless of who the coaching staff or players are the result is always the same, on occasions we can pass well but are never consistently good at it. It’s very frustrating as we’ve seen countless examples of managers going into lesser teams than us and completely changing how the play making them better passers of the ball but for some reason it never really works for us. I’d expect a manager like ETH to massively improve us in this area considering his whole football philosophy but even he seems to be struggling with it.

 

[Suv666]

Scholes was the last technical mid we had, there are no midfield maestros pulling the strings and every manager we’ve had doesn’t care about bringing in one. Add Rashford and Bruno who lose the ball once every minute, its chaos.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Scholes was the last technical mid we had.

I'd argue that Eriksen is a technical mid?
Obviously not at the same level as Scholes though.

 

[Mickeza]

We regained possession 9 times in their 3rd during the first half alone yesterday - not sure the pressing was the issue. Giving the ball away on the edge of their box after committing too many forward from rest defence allowing their powerful runners to drive into space was the big issue.

 

[Blood Mage]

Eriksen is our only playmaker and his legs have gone. Bruno is a killer ball machine but he's no playmaker, just a very productive attacking midfielder.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We regained possession 9 times in their 3rd during the first half alone yesterday - not sure the pressing was the issue. Giving the ball away on the edge of their box after committing too many forward from rest defence allowing their powerful runners to drive into space was the big issue.

Did you misread the thread title?!

Re garbage passing, I crunched some numbers on our pass completion.

Average pass completion of central midfielders in first match of season (including subs who attempted > 5 passes):

AFC: (Rice, Odegaard, Havertz) 86%
NUFC (Tonali, Guimaraes, Joelinton): 86%
MCFC (De Bruyne, Kovacic, Rodri, Alvarez): 84%
CFC (Gallagher, Fernandez): 86%
LFC (Slobadob, McAllister, Gakpo, Jones) : 81%*
MUFC (Mount, Eriksen, Bruno, Casemiro): 70%
*Average dragged down by Gakpo, playing out of position, with 67%

Obviously, the biggest difference between us and our opposition midfield on the night was a lack of pace and physicality but the far bigger issue when it comes to how we fare against the big boys will be our lack of care on the ball. And I don't see how that gets fixed any time soon.

 

[Mickeza]

Did you misread the thread title?!

Yes On another note our general pressing was okay yesterday. Our passing is fairly horrific but ETH wants us to be high risk in possession - everything is either 100mph verticality when we win the ball or 5mph passing side to side at the back - we have no in between and we’re not very good at knowing when to play the risky ball and when not to.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes On another note our general pressing was okay yesterday. Our passing is fairly horrific but ETH wants us to be high risk in possession - everything is either 100mph verticality when we win the ball or 5mph passing side to side at the back - we have no in between and we’re not very good at knowing when to play the risky ball and when not to.

I'd be curious to know what the passing completion was like at Ajax. I remember it being much more controlled than that. Horses for courses but it's worry if we've spent so much money and he's still having to compromise the way he'd ideally like to play.

 

[izak]

It's simple we've got players like Mount in our Midfield that treats the ball like a hot potato.

 

[Devil You Know]

Did you misread the thread title?!

Re garbage passing, I crunched some numbers on our pass completion.

Average pass completion of central midfielders in first match of season (including subs who attempted > 5 passes):

AFC: (Rice, Odegaard, Havertz) 86%
NUFC (Tonali, Guimaraes, Joelinton): 86%
MCFC (De Bruyne, Kovacic, Rodri, Alvarez): 84%
CFC (Gallagher, Fernandez): 86%
LFC (Slobadob, McAllister, Gakpo, Jones) : 81%*
MUFC (Mount, Eriksen, Bruno, Casemiro): 70%
*Average dragged down by Gakpo, playing out of position, with 67%

Obviously, the biggest difference between us and our opposition midfield on the night was a lack of pace and physicality but the far bigger issue when it comes to how we fare against the big boys will be our lack of care on the ball. And I don't see how that gets fixed any time soon.

It was actually 78%

Bruno 44 attempts, 34 accurate, 77.3% rate
Casemiro 62 attempts, 51 accurate, 82.3% rate
Eriksen 14 attempts, 8 accurate, 57.1% rate
Mount 21 attempts, 17 accurate, 81% rate

So it's 110 accurate passes out of 141 for a rate of 78%

You're unfairly dragging down the average because of Eriksen, who barely touched the ball.

 

[Devil You Know]

It's simple we've got players like Mount in our Midfield that treats the ball like a hot potato.

One touch passing is a good thing.

 

[Red00012]

Been this way for a decade, we always hit passes to the back foot, not in front of the players, always to square and rarely vertical, front foot passes.

Our passing releases the pressure on the other team because we willfully recycle it backwards rather than being forced to, this releases the squeeze on other teams, giving them time to set their shape and organise

It's fecking ridiculous and I've watched it for a decade.

We had 2 counters in the 2nd half where the 1st one it was played behind Antony who had to check his run and slowed the whole thing down and I think Rashford decided to balloon a 50/50 ball where a side pass to Bruno was clearly the better option to keep the counter going . It’s infuriating how poor some players are at fairly simple passes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It was actually 78%

Bruno 44 attempts, 34 accurate, 77.3% rate
Casemiro 62 attempts, 51 accurate, 82.3% rate
Eriksen 14 attempts, 8 accurate, 57.1% rate
Mount 21 attempts, 17 accurate, 81% rate

So it's 110 accurate passes out of 141 for a rate of 78%

You're unfairly dragging down the average because of Eriksen, who barely touched the ball.

Not unfair at all. I said from the outset I was including all subs who attempted more than 5 passes. Eriksen attempted 14 passes, during half an hour on the pitch. That's only one less than Rashford attempted over 88 minutes. And it's important to include Eriksen, as he is the obvious replacement if we drop any of the starting CMs responsible for our lousy passing on the night.

 

[Devil You Know]

Not unfair at all. I'm including all subs who attempted more than 5 passes. Eriksen attempted 14. That's only one less than Rashford attempted over 88 minutes. And it's important to include Eriksen, as he is the obvious replacement if we drop any of the starting CMs responsible for our lousy passing on the night.

It's unfair averaged the numbers across players rather than passes.

If Casemiro had attempted 99 passes with 100% accuracy and Eriksen had attempted 1 pass with 0%, the overall accuracy of the midfield would be 99%. But by your method, it's 50%.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's unfair averaged the numbers across players rather than passes.

If Casemiro had attempted 99 passes with 100% accuracy and Eriksen had attempted 1 pass with 0%, the overall accuracy of the midfield would be 99%. But by your method, it's 50%.

Ah. Ok. Yeah. That makes sense. Although I obviously CBA to do that again for sll the other teams. Feel free to do the same for all of them, so we're comparing apples with apples. I suspect we will still look a lot worse regardless, so may well turn out to be a complete waste of time.

 

[Red the Bear]

Its never "just the players". Mate, other teams can play a possession based system as well, even Wolves mostly looked quite comfortable on it as well. It not just the players, better players obviously help but its also the set up. When you attack and defense are as far apart as we were today and the objective seemed to be "first idea should always be a through ball" than even Prime Barcelona wouldn't have kept the ball.

Obviously some set ups compliment or compensate inferior players lack of ability but if we truly want to compete with the very best we need players of the highest caliber, no amount of coaching is going to change that.

You are right, if we want to get close to them and maybe even beat them, we have to bring in better players. But today and more often as not we are not playing teams as good at them. So the argument is a bit misleading. Look at Arsenal, look at Liverpool, look at Bayern, look even at Brighton - they all look more comfortable in possession than we do.

I'd argue all those teams are better suited than us to play possession based football, our players have played such a possession opposing style for so long that they seem utterly incapable of doing so, nothing will stop Bruno giving the ball away the way he usually does or make Rashford more considerate with it, it's just how it is.

Won't try to stop us bringing somebody in but lets be real, we are hearing this thing since the days of Mourinho, certainly since Ole. If you act as if only new players could change the status quo than you make sure you will be in an evergoing rebuilt.

Today was bad, because most of our players looked off. Can happen. We looked like this last season too though. Can happen as well. Its players and manager. And he is giving you clues when he talks about being the best transitional team. That does mean, he isn't valueing possession as much as transition, which will reflect on his setups which will reflect in the things our players can do well and what they usually can't do well

I actually would argue a reason for us taking for one step forward and two back is how we half ass our rebuilds, what Chelsea are doing regardless of its success is a rebuild, we'd usually just apply a relatively expensive band aid.

And in regards to being the best transitional team in the world I took as ten hag basically conceding that we lack the players for a more measured approach, I hope he makes it work.

 

[Judas]

It's simple we've got players like Mount in our Midfield that treats the ball like a hot potato.

Mount is a lot more controlled and measured than Bruno, so not sure why you chose to pick him out. He’s a lot more what I thought Ten Hag wants in a midfielder, whereas Bruno continues to look near enough the opposite to me. So wasteful.

 

[NZT-One]

Obviously some set ups compliment or compensate inferior players lack of ability but if we truly want to compete with the very best we need players of the highest caliber, no amount of coaching is going to change that.

No issue here agreeing with you. But that applies to only a fraction of the games we will play during a season. You are right, to play and win against the best of the best, we are going to need better players. To look better against weak sides, this argument looses some footing.

I'd argue all those teams are better suited than us to play possession based football, our players have played such a possession opposing style for so long that they seem utterly incapable of doing so, nothing will stop Bruno giving the ball away the way he usually does or make Rashford more considerate with it, it's just how it is.

Yeah, that is true. We haven't evolved as a team and are a bit behind other teams in terms of making use of the team collective. But again, I am sure you will agree, that we don't have to shoot for prime Barca tiki-taka. Just be a little consequent in the plans for the matches. IF the manager wants us to press, then the defensive line needs to be higher. IF we don't want to play a higher line, we can't press high and have to let them coming. Also not every pass has to be an attempt for through ball. Or leave the through balls to Bruno and Martinez. Also a way, quite predictable at that but who cares.

I actually would argue a reason for us taking for one step forward and two back is how we half ass our rebuilds, what Chelsea are doing regardless of its success is a rebuild, we'd usually just apply a relatively expensive band aid.

Well yeah, thats where our owners come in aren't they... I mean, to be perfectly honest, I think, Chelseas approach would be too scattergun for me but it certainly has its merits. But even with a limited budgets we can make good decisions. And we can learn to deal well with decisions that didn't turn out so well.

And in regards to being the best transitional team in the world I took as ten hag basically conceding that we lack the players for a more measured approach, I hope he makes it work.

Me too. That is why I am actually a bit suprised that there is even some talk about making hard decisions at a certain point. We have to be able to criticize a manager without wanting him gone. ETH "fixed" our builtup last year, this year, I hope there will be another aspect that gets better than before. But all that needs to go in tandem with the footballing structure in the club to evolve as well. ETH is an important piece of the puzzle, but we should also learn to do the recruitment right and to have somebody, who will add a more longterm perspective to ETHs (probably) more shortsighted perspective. Its only natural for the manager to look at next season, but the clubs has to have somebody thinking beyond that.

Progress as a football team is all that matters. Play good football because it more often than not is successful football. ETH has shown that he can provide such football.

 

[Dominos]

Did you misread the thread title?!

Re garbage passing, I crunched some numbers on our pass completion.

The problem I have with pass completion stats is it's not fully telling us what we really want to know, which is how often we lost the ball.

Misplaced passes is only one method of losing the ball. We're also constantly losing the ball through taking poor touches, getting tackled by showing too much of the ball to the opposition, and I'd include losing out on loose balls that should have been ours but we lost a duel we were favourite to win.

Football needs a "total losses of possession" stat, and "unforced errors" stat like in tennis, although obviously there would be some subjectivity. Comparing our total losses of possession and unforced errors vs City and Arsenal would be eye opening I imagine. Though the more I think about it, you may have to take into account possession as teams who have a lot of the ball have more opportunities to give it away which will skew things.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The problem I have with pass completion stats is it's not fully telling us what we really want to know, which is how often we lost the ball.

Misplaced passes is only one method of losing the ball. We're also constantly losing the ball through taking poor touches, getting tackled, and I'd include losing out on loose balls that should have been ours but we lost a duel we were favourite to win.

Football needs a "total losses of possession" stat, and "unforced errors" stat like in tennis, although obviously they'd be subjective.

Sure that would be a useful detail. But if our midfield is failing to reach their target with their passes twice as often as all our rivals then I’d say that’s a pretty clear indication of a problem, no matter what all the other stats might tell us.

 

[cyberman]

The problem I have with pass completion stats is it's not fully telling us what we really want to know, which is how often we lost the ball.

Misplaced passes is only one method of losing the ball. We're also constantly losing the ball through taking poor touches, getting tackled by showing too much of the ball to the opposition, and I'd include losing out on loose balls that should have been ours but we lost a duel we were favourite to win.

Football needs a "total losses of possession" stat, and "unforced errors" stat like in tennis, although obviously there would be some subjectivity. Comparing our total losses of possession and unforced errors vs City and Arsenal would be eye opening I imagine. Though the more I think about it, you may have to take into account possession as teams who have a lot of the ball have more opportunities to give it away which will skew things.

Familiarity breeds contempt. Casemiro was praised to the heavens for finding the first pass forward as quickly as he could when he first joined but the baby is being thrown out with the bath water here.
What Ten Hag is doing here works. It’s about refining it now and not talking ourselves into thinking the sky is falling in because we didn’t win a game a football as conclusively as we should have.
Personally I love the directness of our play. I love how every pass is trying to immediately find attackers in dangerous positions. It doesn’t show well on stats but 75 points in his first season is stat enough for me.

 

[Dominos]

Familiarity breeds contempt. Casemiro was praised to the heavens for finding the first pass forward as quickly as he could when he first joined but the baby is being thrown out with the bath water here.
What Ten Hag is doing here works. It’s about refining it now and not talking ourselves into thinking the sky is falling in because we didn’t win a game a football as conclusively as we should have.
Personally I love the directness of our play. I love how every pass is trying to immediately find attackers in dangerous positions. It doesn’t show well on stats but 75 points in his first season is stat enough for me.

The idea we're giving the ball away because we're trying difficult passes I just can't buy.

No one is bemoaning the losses of possession where we cross the ball or try a through ball to try create a goal.

We're talking basic 5 yard passes, 10 yard passes, passes under no pressure, taking poor touches to allow the opposition to tackle, passing to a player who is in a worse position than the one who is in open space, falling to keep the ball under the slightest bit of physical pressure from the opponent. City and Arsenal are just so so far ahead of us when it comes to ball retention, and it's not because they don't pass forward and don't pass quickly.

 

[cyberman]

The idea we're giving the ball away because we're trying difficult passes I just can't buy.

No one is bemoaning the losses of possession where we cross the ball or try a through ball to try create a goal.

We're talking basic 5 yard passes, 10 yard passes, passes under no pressure, taking poor touches to allow the opposition to tackle, passing to a player who is in a worse position than the one who is in open space, falling to keep the ball under the slightest bit of physical pressure from the opponent. City and Arsenal are just so so far ahead of us when it comes to ball retention, and it's not because they don't pass forward and don't pass quickly.

That’s doesn’t happen every game now, we aren’t 12 years old out there. You don’t get 75 points and all those clean sheets and home record by not finding a 5 yard pass.
I’m not even sure Arsenal were all that midfield ball retention heavy last season. If I remember correctly they were 5th in possession stats last season and lost the league because the couldn’t keep the ball in the last 10/12 games

 

[El Jefe]

It's not rocket science really, look at the players Pep has used for City in midfield and attacking midfield areas. KDB, Bernardo, Gundogan, Grealish, Rodri, Kovacic, Foden. Any of these players would be our most press resistant player and have the most comfort in possession.

You can't be surprised that a midfield with Bruno, Mctominay, Casemiro, Fred, Mount and Eriksen can't keep the ball that well.

Add this to having no one up top to make the ball stick and it's no surprise and it will never change. Mourinho was never a possession coach but Drogba used to bring down long balls and allow the play to build this way. We're pretty bad on the ground and in the air.

 

[klayton88]

The worst things is 80% of the YouTube training videos are that passing in a circle drill.

 

[Son]

They're rare as long as you look at the same market and clubs, however those players are there. We're terrible at scouting. Newcastle landed Tonali without any problems.

Tonali looks like he could become one of the best players on the planet going on that last game he had. I was incredibly impressed!

Defo jealous they signed him.

 

[Son]

If there's only 1 De Jong, what explains the numerous teams out there that are also really good with the ball? De Jong being the be all and end all of a system means the system is dumb.

He’s the best at what he does. What he does well is usually our weakness and has been for years and years.Hence why I want him at the club.

If we can find someone who can do the job as well (or better) for cheap and left field - awesome but we all know United and all know that won’t happen.

 

[ROFLUTION]

It was actually 78%

Bruno 44 attempts, 34 accurate, 77.3% rate
Casemiro 62 attempts, 51 accurate, 82.3% rate
Eriksen 14 attempts, 8 accurate, 57.1% rate
Mount 21 attempts, 17 accurate, 81% rate

So it's 110 accurate passes out of 141 for a rate of 78%

You're unfairly dragging down the average because of Eriksen, who barely touched the ball.

Good post and more fair numbers. Still a good way off the other teams.

I'd say amount of touches also has something to say as Liverpool had about same percentage rate as us but were completely dominated by Chelsea.

 

[ROFLUTION]

It's not rocket science really, look at the players Pep has used for City in midfield and attacking midfield areas. KDB, Bernardo, Gundogan, Grealish, Rodri, Kovacic, Foden. Any of these players would be our most press resistant player and have the most comfort in possession.

You can't be surprised that a midfield with Bruno, Mctominay, Casemiro, Fred, Mount and Eriksen can't keep the ball that well.

Add this to having no one up top to make the ball stick and it's no surprise and it will never change. Mourinho was never a possession coach but Drogba used to bring down long balls and allow the play to build this way. We're pretty bad on the ground and in the air.

This thing about being press-resistant is a bit of a bogus-word to me sometimes. Against Wolves, no one really made themselves available for passes. That of course makes it hard for everyone on the pitch to be press-resistant, if there are very few options to pass to. Casemiro in particular was very invisible and didnt make himself available for passing.

All of City's players are great passers but also have a clearly defined system where options for passing are always there. They ran much more off the ball to make themselves available than we did against Wolves.

 

[Son]

We haven’t been a great passing side in well over a decade. Even Ferguson’s final few seasons it was often sloppy but you could put that down to our midfield but we were much more fluid in the attack then we are nowadays.

What is even worse is we had a head start on everyone after Barcelona absolutely destroyed us in the two finals.

Instead we went backwards after Queiroz left, doubled down and called it the United way.

It was evident football was changing as a sport and we just seemed to ignore it while everyone else overtook us at training and recruitment.

 

[yamo123x]

We've never replaced Carrick IMHO.

He had high pass accuracy and could pass the ball through the lines. He added a calmness and control something we dont have now.

Kroos, Enzo Fernandes, Kimmich, De Jong, are prob 4 modern day examples of this type of player. Can Amrabat do this type of role for us?

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I don't think we have bad passers at all, the main issue is positioning.

There is a lack of movement and options forcer harder passers, they seem to position themsleves further from each other and make the game harder in that sense which is why the Bruno/ Mount combination doesn't work and why I want Bruno& Mount to play deeper or with a traditional #9 who will demand they leave his space and get back as Mount particularly seems to want to occupy the striker position.

EDIT: I'd also like to see Shaw tuck inside slightly more to bulk up the midfield as I think that would help.

 

[Gordon S]

We've never replaced Carrick IMHO.

He had high pass accuracy and could pass the ball through the lines. He added a calmness and control something we dont have now.

Kroos, Enzo Fernandes, Kimmich, De Jong, are prob 4 modern day examples of this type of player. Can Amrabat do this type of role for us?

We never did replace him. You could argue Casemiro is that guy, but i don´t think he is close enough in style and level. Carrick was a genius at reading the play and scanning the pitch quickly. His pace was more than decent, somewhat underrated perhaps. Quicker and more agile than Casemiro is my guess. Carrick was also very smartwhen winning the ball back, rarely lunged into tackles like Casemiro loves to do. He rarely conceded freekicks and risked getting cards. Don´t think Carrick ever picked up a red card in the PL.

Casemiro is better going forward imo. He is creative and has an eye for a killer pass. He times his runs into the box very well and offers a threat that Carrick never really had. Quite different players all in all.

If we could find a dlp like Carrick to play behind Casemiro we would be laughing imo.

 

[NZT-One]

We never did replace him. You could argue Casemiro is that guy, but i don´t think he is close enough in style and level. Carrick was a genius at reading the play and scanning the pitch quickly. His pace was more than decent, somewhat underrated perhaps. Quicker and more agile than Casemiro is my guess. Carrick was also very smartwhen winning the ball back, rarely lunged into tackles like Casemiro loves to do. He rarely conceded freekicks and risked getting cards. Don´t think Carrick ever picked up a red card in the PL.

Casemiro is better going forward imo. He is creative and has an eye for a killer pass. He times his runs into the box very well and offers a threat that Carrick never really had. Quite different players all in all.

If we could find a dlp like Carrick to play behind Casemiro we would be laughing imo.

You might be right, but lets also remember, that Scholes and Carrick didn't usually face the level of organized press that opposition teams are producing these days. Carrick especially was
susceptible to teams closing him down.
Our passing will not improve when we add one single player to that existing bunch. Football doesn't work that way. Wether you put Amrabat, Carrick 2.0 or prime Xavi in there. We are seemingly to triggerhappy as a team, half the attackers making runs to be through on goal, 2 out of 3 midfielders are trying to make those passes (or runs themselves) and even our defenders are going for that stuff. You have to be ready to be patient and patient means the overall technical level has to improve (be that through new players or training and tactics).