Why don't we sign players from the PL anymore?

[Lastwolf]

It's a similar story for players from leagues outside the Premier League.

Consider the following recent transfer fees:

• Ugarte: 50M
• Højlund: 64M
• Antony: 80M
• Zirkzee: 36M
• Yoro: 52M

And there are countless other examples. The issue isn’t necessarily about whether those transfers make financial sense or not. Instead, it highlights the indecisiveness and lack of clear strategy in our recruitment process.

Yes, but if you dropped any of those into the EPL, the prices would be similar or more probably higher. Everton wanted 80m for Branthwaite vs 52m for Yoro. Brighton wanted 100m for Evan Ferguson vs Hojlund. Ugarte is a bit harder to find a similar example, probably Mount, which is about comparable in terms of fee and "last years new hotness that's gone off the boil this year" profile and he was in the last year of his contract to get that similar price.

Anthony was Woodward era madness.

Zirkzee, I'll give you though.

 

[Mainoonited]

1. We need players to close the gap between us and Liverpool/Arsenal/City. There are few players in the league that are of that quality, who aren't actually at those clubs or other clubs with the same ambitions.

2. In the past we had a financial advantage over other clubs, so clubs would be inclined to sell to us - today that's not the case, so they can choose not too, or sell at huge prices (Maguire, AWB fees).

3. In the past joining Manchester United assured the sort of success that joining City today does. We don't have that box office appeal. Most of us who see it that way are in our 40's. The last time we won the league, today's 20-24 year old would have been 7-11. For the majority of their lives we've been a horrible mess.

 

[Mainoonited]

The one we really missed out on was Harry Kane. Should have remortgaged to sign him, given Levy whatever ridiculous price he wanted.

 

[FootballHQ]

Too expensive for the quality, just look at the last promising players, their potential and their price just don't match.

A. Onana 60M
Solanke 65M
Rutter 45M
Pedro Neto 60M
Nketiah 30M
Deusbury Hall 35M
Lewis Hall 32M
Elliot Anderson 42M
Gray 41M
Kilman 48M
Summerville 30M

Which one of those is worth their price? It doesn't make sense financially.

You'd genuinely turn down someone like Eze if he's in the 40-50m price range. Bayern Munich signed Olise for 50m so am guessing Eze would be a similar price if lower due to him being a couple of years older.

Van Hecke at Brighton is another to have a look at.

 

[Mrs Smith]

This seems to be a de facto policy now. Why do we do this? Are the players we buy from abroad cheaper? £80+m for Antony, £70+m for Hojlund and £70+m for Casemiro would suggest not.

Are the players we buy from abroad better quality than what's available in the PL? Again, very much debatable. Some have been OK, some the jury is still out on and some have been f**king disastrous.

Fergie's great teams were heavily augmented by top players bought from lower to mid ranking PL teams (Cantona from Leeds, Keane from Forest, Cole from Newcastle, Yorke from Villa, Rio from Leeds, Carrick and Berbatov from Spurs, Rooney from Everton, Valencia from Wigan). We even got Van Persie from Arsenal! They had all proven themselves in the English game and we knew what we were getting. Very few PL signings flopped (in fact I can't think of any, maybe Bosnich!)

Yes, I get that there is greater competition in the transfer market now from other English clubs. And I get that clubs like Villa, Spurs and Everton for example have their own money and don't need to sell their best players to United unless the fee is extortionate. But we rarely seem to be heavily linked to any player even from the "smaller" PL clubs anymore. Is the club's policy that if a player is with Brentford, Bournemouth or Wolves they're obviously not good enough for us, and we're better off taking a £30m punt on a player from Bologna?

Wouldn't it be better to sign above the odds for a player that we know is a proven PL performer, rather than slightly cheaper (if even) on a player from another league who we have no idea how he's going to do?

I look at Anthony Gordon tearing it up for Newcastle at the moment, and they got him from Everton for half as much as Antony cost us. The type of signing Fergie would have been all over back in the day.

I know we signed Mount for 50m quid who's been a disaster (mainly cos he's never fit) but we also got Evans and Eriksen on free transfers from other PL clubs and they've been two of our most consistent performers. I just think the club do not place enough of an emphasis of PL track record when recruiting players, when evidence shows it should be a major factor.

Fergie made a habit of signing other clubs best players, often for quite a bit of cash, and clubs could rarely so no back then - Steve Bruce, Pallister, Mick Phelan, Paul Ince , Roy Keane, Danny Wallace, Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Teddy Sheringham, Berbatov, Ferdinand, Carrick, Cantona. These players weren't hidden gems - but can you imagine the cost of signing the best players from ANY premier league club these days when selling top players is no longer necesarry.

 

[Doracle]

Solanke is one we should probably have been in for and Lewis Hall/Livramento look excellent signings as well for Newcastle (if they can stay fit).

I do think the way to play this though has to be to look to target those players with 2 years left on their contract, put reasonable but not ridiculous offers in at the 2 year and 1 year point and then take them on frees if those offers aren’t accepted. Otherwise, the prices will remain disproportionate whenever we come calling.

 

[Ekeke]

Too expensive for the quality, just look at the last promising players, their potential and their price just don't match.

A. Onana 60M
Solanke 65M
Rutter 45M
Pedro Neto 60M
Nketiah 30M
Deusbury Hall 35M
Lewis Hall 32M
Elliot Anderson 42M
Gray 41M
Kilman 48M
Summerville 30M

Which one of those is worth their price? It doesn't make sense financially.

I think most of these you have to factor in their age and give them a season to really get going at the new club, because they arent signing at 27 years old where they need to have an instant impact and their potential is factored into their fees.

That said you still have a point and I think probably more than half of that list are not going to end up value for money even over 4-5 seasons at their new club.

However the several that do come good will probably sell for more money and thats why its deemed worth it to go for those players at those prices.

I think for example that Hall, Gray, Summerville and I'll have an outside bet on Anderson with him picking England, have a decent chance at selling for 120-150% of those fees in a couple of seasons to top clubs. And a couple of the others might surprise me and do the same thing. Its a gamble and for some it pays off, but it is certainly less than the amount that will fail to live up to the transfer fees.

 

[Ekeke]

The trick we are missing is the Championship, not the Premier League. There’s talent a plenty in there if you’re willing to take the risk;

Eze
Olise
Gyokeres
Bowen
Mbuemo
Toney
Watkins

Few examples of recent ones who have come up. There’s a few in there now that would be good signings too.

Gotta agree with this. Been a big fan of the idea of taking chances on a championship player every once in a while since Leicester signed Maddison from Norwich. Didnt really pay attention to the league before that but I've always had an eye on whos doing well there since.

 

[Oranges038]

The trick we are missing is the Championship, not the Premier League. There’s talent a plenty in there if you’re willing to take the risk;

Eze
Olise
Gyokeres
Bowen
Mbuemo
Toney
Watkins

Few examples of recent ones who have come up. There’s a few in there now that would be good signings too.

I don't think so. There's not many players who have ever gone from the championship to a top PL team and been a success. Man Utd should be considered a top team, these players would not get the time to develop in the same way. Villa were mid table battlers when they signed Watkins, he's come good. But he wouldn't have been given the same leeway to grow at Utd that he's got at Villa. Same with Eze and Olise, they needed the freedom that they got at Palace to play and learn and develop.

Players tend to need that mid table step between a championship club and a bigger club. Even mid table teams have plenty of Championship signings fail or players they brought up with them not being good enough.

The ones that are, do need the time to learn and develop as players in an environment with less pressure and not have every little mistake blown up and analysed every week. With fans jumping on their backs after a few games.

 

[wolvored]

Fergie made a habit of signing other clubs best players, often for quite a bit of cash, and clubs could rarely so no back then - Steve Bruce, Pallister, Mick Phelan, Paul Ince , Roy Keane, Danny Wallace, Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Teddy Sheringham, Berbatov, Ferdinand, Carrick, Cantona. These players weren't hidden gems - but can you imagine the cost of signing the best players from ANY premier league club these days when selling top players is no longer necesarry.

This was what eventually helped us to the top. Buying a load of proven players, around the best in the league or close to it. It would be impossible to do this now as Utd are no longer the richest club or the biggest pull as it stands.
I hope Amorim/Ineo identify a few young British players, who wont cost the earth and can be a bedrock of a British/Irish core, supplemented by the youth already here. Obviously the long term loyalty from British/Irish players v foreign is also better, if success on the pitch.