Why don't we sign players from the PL anymore?

Oscar Bonavena

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This seems to be a de facto policy now. Why do we do this? Are the players we buy from abroad cheaper? £80+m for Antony, £70+m for Hojlund and £70+m for Casemiro would suggest not.

Are the players we buy from abroad better quality than what's available in the PL? Again, very much debatable. Some have been OK, some the jury is still out on and some have been f**king disastrous.

Fergie's great teams were heavily augmented by top players bought from lower to mid ranking PL teams (Cantona from Leeds, Keane from Forest, Cole from Newcastle, Yorke from Villa, Rio from Leeds, Carrick and Berbatov from Spurs, Rooney from Everton, Valencia from Wigan). We even got Van Persie from Arsenal! They had all proven themselves in the English game and we knew what we were getting. Very few PL signings flopped (in fact I can't think of any, maybe Bosnich!)

Yes, I get that there is greater competition in the transfer market now from other English clubs. And I get that clubs like Villa, Spurs and Everton for example have their own money and don't need to sell their best players to United unless the fee is extortionate. But we rarely seem to be heavily linked to any player even from the "smaller" PL clubs anymore. Is the club's policy that if a player is with Brentford, Bournemouth or Wolves they're obviously not good enough for us, and we're better off taking a £30m punt on a player from Bologna?

Wouldn't it be better to sign above the odds for a player that we know is a proven PL performer, rather than slightly cheaper (if even) on a player from another league who we have no idea how he's going to do?

I look at Anthony Gordon tearing it up for Newcastle at the moment, and they got him from Everton for half as much as Antony cost us. The type of signing Fergie would have been all over back in the day.

I know we signed Mount for 50m quid who's been a disaster (mainly cos he's never fit) but we also got Evans and Eriksen on free transfers from other PL clubs and they've been two of our most consistent performers. I just think the club do not place enough of an emphasis of PL track record when recruiting players, when evidence shows it should be a major factor.
 
Too expensive for the quality, just look at the last promising players, their potential and their price just don't match.

A. Onana 60M
Solanke 65M
Rutter 45M
Pedro Neto 60M
Nketiah 30M
Deusbury Hall 35M
Lewis Hall 32M
Elliot Anderson 42M
Gray 41M
Kilman 48M
Summerville 30M

Which one of those is worth their price? It doesn't make sense financially.
 
GlazersHater said:
Too expensive for the quality, just look at the last promising players, their potential and their price just don't match.

A. Onana 60M
Solanke 65M
Rutter 45M
Pedro Neto 60M
Nketiah 30M
Deusbury Hall 35M
Lewis Hall 32M
Elliot Anderson 42M
Gray 41M
Kilman 48M
Summerville 30M

Which one of those is worth their price? It doesn't make sense financially.
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I hear you. There are not many on that list I'd fancy. Onana and Neto probably. Maybr Solanke cos we're so short of centre forwards. But all of them are still cheaper than Antony and Hojlund!

Plus the likes of Gordon, Palmer and Toney went for £40m-ish and they'd all walk into our team and improve it.
 
GlazersHater said:
Too expensive for the quality, just look at the last promising players, their potential and their price just don't match.

A. Onana 60M
Solanke 65M
Rutter 45M
Pedro Neto 60M
Nketiah 30M
Deusbury Hall 35M
Lewis Hall 32M
Elliot Anderson 42M
Gray 41M
Kilman 48M
Summerville 30M

Which one of those is worth their price? It doesn't make sense financially.
Click to expand...

It's a similar story for players from leagues outside the Premier League.

Consider the following recent transfer fees:

  • Ugarte: 50M
  • Højlund: 64M
  • Antony: 80M
  • Zirkzee: 36M
  • Yoro: 52M
And there are countless other examples. The issue isn’t necessarily about whether those transfers make financial sense or not. Instead, it highlights the indecisiveness and lack of clear strategy in our recruitment process.
 
GlazersHater said:
Too expensive for the quality, just look at the last promising players, their potential and their price just don't match.

A. Onana 60M
Solanke 65M
Rutter 45M
Pedro Neto 60M
Nketiah 30M
Deusbury Hall 35M
Lewis Hall 32M
Elliot Anderson 42M
Gray 41M
Kilman 48M
Summerville 30M

Which one of those is worth their price? It doesn't make sense financially.
Click to expand...
A lot of these would be a similar price if they were abroad. If Neto had played for Benfica/Porto for 3-4 years, I could 100% see him going for 60m. Nunez went for 85m
 
Antony and Casemiro were signed before INEOS
We don't know what INEOS long term strategy is for transfers
 
I think now it is just a lucky dip.
I think the value probably lies in the South American market but they tend to go to Europe first and that would obviously suit the players.
 
If it was up to me we’d buy a lot more premier league proven players. You know they can handle the pace of the league, and as you strengthen your own team you’re weakening one around you. Fergie loved it for a reason.

But these days there’s so much money in the PL which means more clubs can attract these players. So the best players are more spread out, and they don’t have to sell because they don’t need the money.

Hence you have the likes of Solanke going for 60m. Grealish and Rice were over 100m each. I don’t know about you, but I feel like I’d rather take the risk on a player from abroad for half the price and hope he can step up.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
It's a similar story for players from leagues outside the Premier League.

Consider the following recent transfer fees:

  • Ugarte: 50M
  • Højlund: 64M
  • Antony: 80M
  • Zirkzee: 36M
  • Yoro: 52M
And there are countless other examples. The issue isn’t necessarily about whether those transfers make financial sense or not. Instead, it highlights the indecisiveness and lack of clear strategy in our recruitment process.
Click to expand...
That's because we're really poor with our signings. Besides Yoro, who is rated as a world-class talent, all the other ones are not worth their price. But for those fees we could've done much better bringing players from other leagues.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
This seems to be a de facto policy now. Why do we do this? Are the players we buy from abroad cheaper? £80+m for Antony, £70+m for Hojlund and £70+m for Casemiro would suggest not.

Are the players we buy from abroad better quality than what's available in the PL? Again, very much debatable. Some have been OK, some the jury is still out on and some have been f**king disastrous.

Fergie's great teams were heavily augmented by top players bought from lower to mid ranking PL teams (Cantona from Leeds, Keane from Forest, Cole from Newcastle, Yorke from Villa, Rio from Leeds, Carrick and Berbatov from Spurs, Rooney from Everton, Valencia from Wigan). We even got Van Persie from Arsenal! They had all proven themselves in the English game and we knew what we were getting. Very few PL signings flopped (in fact I can't think of any, maybe Bosnich!)

Yes, I get that there is greater competition in the transfer market now from other English clubs. And I get that clubs like Villa, Spurs and Everton for example have their own money and don't need to sell their best players to United unless the fee is extortionate. But we rarely seem to be heavily linked to any player even from the "smaller" PL clubs anymore. Is the club's policy that if a player is with Brentford, Bournemouth or Wolves they're obviously not good enough for us, and we're better off taking a £30m punt on a player from Bologna?

Wouldn't it be better to sign above the odds for a player that we know is a proven PL performer, rather than slightly cheaper (if even) on a player from another league who we have no idea how he's going to do?

I look at Anthony Gordon tearing it up for Newcastle at the moment, and they got him from Everton for half as much as Antony cost us. The type of signing Fergie would have been all over back in the day.

I know we signed Mount for 50m quid who's been a disaster (mainly cos he's never fit) but we also got Evans and Eriksen on free transfers from other PL clubs and they've been two of our most consistent performers. I just think the club do not place enough of an emphasis of PL track record when recruiting players, when evidence shows it should be a major factor.
Click to expand...

And we broke the British Transfer Records for most of these.


If Fergie was still in charge he would've broke the bank for the likes of Harry Kane years ago. Also Declan Rice would've been high on his list too imo
 
Not too many Dutch or ex Ajax players in the PL at the minute. We might sign more now Ten Hag has gone or we might start recruiting from Portugal.
 
GueRed said:
And we broke the British Transfer Records for most of these.


If Fergie was still in charge he would've broke the bank for the likes of Harry Kane years ago. Also Declan Rice would've been high on his list too imo
Click to expand...
Rice is not doing well. We have never spent that much on a player, and Rice would be a poor first.
 
Premiership players are as risky as other leagues players. PL teams have a financial advantage when buying from abroad, and our pull is not as big as it was. There is a lot of competition.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
It's a similar story for players from leagues outside the Premier League.

Consider the following recent transfer fees:

  • Ugarte: 50M
  • Højlund: 64M
  • Antony: 80M
  • Zirkzee: 36M
  • Yoro: 52M
And there are countless other examples. The issue isn’t necessarily about whether those transfers make financial sense or not. Instead, it highlights the indecisiveness and lack of clear strategy in our recruitment process.
Click to expand...

Not really.. there still is a massive difference.

We went for Branthwaite at 1st choice and were quoted £80m, instead for that £80m we bought De Ligt and Yoro.. so I am not sure where indecisiveness or clear strategy was issue there.

I think we should look at INEOS and Glazers as different strategies.
 
Hammondo said:
Premiership players are as risky as other leagues players. PL teams have a financial advantage when buying from abroad, and our pull is not as big as it was. There is a lot of competition.
Click to expand...
Exactly, you just pay more for PL in both fees and wages because clubs can resist United more. If you can afford it, great, City for example essentially bought a £100m sub in Grealish as a marketing move, but United have absolutely thrown cash at our issues without a plan for years and there has to be a bit more of a conservative approach.

I do think the part many fans aren't anticipating is that Ineos will sell highly talented younger players if they deem the price right, the whole 'we're not a selling club' thing will die with them I reckon and probaly be for the best.
 
2 man midfield said:
If it was up to me we’d buy a lot more premier league proven players. You know they can handle the pace of the league, and as you strengthen your own team you’re weakening one around you. Fergie loved it for a reason.
Click to expand...

Conversely, Ian Graham (the Liverpool data guy) gave a presentation a few months ago where he listed five key mistakes when it comes to recruitment. And one of them was "he knows the league".

How many of the top 20 signings from other PL sides have actually lived up to the (often inflated) price tag?

Jack Grealish
Declan Rice
Caicedo
Lukaku (Chelsea)
Maguire
Lukaku (United)
Van Dijk
Fofana
Havertz
Mahrez
Cucurella
Sterling (City)
Lavia
Mattheus Nunes
Ben White
Fernando Torres
Richarlison
Sterling (Chelsea)
Stones
Brennan Johnson

There are still an awful lot of misses in that list despite the security that recruiting from within the same league supposedly brings. And several cases where rather than weaken their opponents, teams handed their opponents an awful lot of money for a player without overly strengethening themselves.
 
Last edited:
If De Ligt and Mazroui were at Chelsea or Arsenal, let alone City or Liverpool, we wouldn’t have been able to get them for £60 million combined including addons.

Reality is PL clubs that already have many quality players are our direct rivals for top 4 spots, and will make us pay dear to improve our squad while weakening theirs.

For midtable and lower PL clubs, usually we’re trying to buy their gem, their unicorn, the one player outperforming the team’s position in the table. Again, that will cost us like Maguire did.

I think every now and then the stars will align and we should never stop looking in the PL, but more often than not our money will go further elsewhere and the transfer will be easier to get done
 
Obi-Martin, Lusale, Mount, Evans, Reguilon, Weghorst, Eriksen, the Fletcher bros, Dubravka, Heaton, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James all in the past 5 years.
 
Short answer: it's much more expensive (transfer fees and wages too).

And the fact that we have wasted an absolute shitload on overpaid/overpriced/whatever players from abroad doesn't change this.

The latter has to do with our particularly (spectacularly) shit transfer strategy - it is clearly possible to do much better than we have done, i.e. get much better value for the money spent (on non-PL players) than we have.
 
sullydnl said:
Conversely, Ian Graham (the Liverpool data guy) gave a presentation a few months ago where he listed five key mistakes when it comes to recruitment. And one of them was "he knows the league".

How many of the top 20 signings from other PL sides have actually lived up to the (often inflated) price tag?

Jack Grealish
Declan Rice
Caicedo
Lukaku (Chelsea)
Maguire
Lukaku (United)
Van Dijk
Fofana
Havertz
Mahrez
Cucurella
Sterling (City)
Lavia
Mattheus Nunes
Ben White
Fernando Torres
Richarlison
Sterling (Chelsea)
Stones
Brennan Johnson

There are still an awful lot of misses in that list despite the security that recruiting from within the same league supposedly brings. And several cases where rather than weaken their opponents, teams handed their opponents an awful lot of money for a player without overly strengethening themselves.
Click to expand...
Most of those are certainly good enough for the league though, but compared to their inflated price tags might’ve underwhelmed. That’s not really their fault. Or like Torres flopped for other reasons.
 
romufc said:
Not really.. there still is a massive difference.

We went for Branthwaite at 1st choice and were quoted £80m, instead for that £80m we bought De Ligt and Yoro.. so I am not sure where indecisiveness or clear strategy was issue there.

I think we should look at INEOS and Glazers as different strategies.
Click to expand...

How is there a massive difference?

I literally gave a number of examples to prove my point, yet you come with one and all of a sudden you feel there's a massive difference. Whilst I agree we should look at INEOS and Glazers differently, they were also responsible for the Ugarte signing, in which I clearly pointed out Onana - an EPL player, was a similar price.
 
Because our Dutch manager who used to manage Ajax definitely wasn't involved in signing loads of Dutch or former Ajax players. It was just a coincidence
 
sullydnl said:
Conversely, Ian Graham (the Liverpool data guy) gave a presentation a few months ago where he listed five key mistakes when it comes to recruitment. And one of them was "he knows the league".

How many of the top 20 signings from other PL sides have actually lived up to the (often inflated) price tag?

Jack Grealish
Declan Rice
Caicedo
Lukaku (Chelsea)
Maguire
Lukaku (United)
Van Dijk
Fofana
Havertz
Mahrez
Cucurella
Sterling (City)
Lavia
Mattheus Nunes
Ben White
Fernando Torres
Richarlison
Sterling (Chelsea)
Stones
Brennan Johnson

There are still an awful lot of misses in that list despite the security that recruiting from within the same league supposedly brings. And several cases where rather than weaken their opponents, teams handed their opponents an awful lot of money for a player without overly strengethening themselves.
Click to expand...

From that list, Van Dik, Mahrez, Rice, Ben White and Stones. There are a couple that can still be good but not quite the valuation fee.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
This seems to be a de facto policy now. Why do we do this? Are the players we buy from abroad cheaper? £80+m for Antony, £70+m for Hojlund and £70+m for Casemiro would suggest not.

Are the players we buy from abroad better quality than what's available in the PL? Again, very much debatable. Some have been OK, some the jury is still out on and some have been f**king disastrous.

Fergie's great teams were heavily augmented by top players bought from lower to mid ranking PL teams (Cantona from Leeds, Keane from Forest, Cole from Newcastle, Yorke from Villa, Rio from Leeds, Carrick and Berbatov from Spurs, Rooney from Everton, Valencia from Wigan). We even got Van Persie from Arsenal! They had all proven themselves in the English game and we knew what we were getting. Very few PL signings flopped (in fact I can't think of any, maybe Bosnich!)

Yes, I get that there is greater competition in the transfer market now from other English clubs. And I get that clubs like Villa, Spurs and Everton for example have their own money and don't need to sell their best players to United unless the fee is extortionate. But we rarely seem to be heavily linked to any player even from the "smaller" PL clubs anymore. Is the club's policy that if a player is with Brentford, Bournemouth or Wolves they're obviously not good enough for us, and we're better off taking a £30m punt on a player from Bologna?

Wouldn't it be better to sign above the odds for a player that we know is a proven PL performer, rather than slightly cheaper (if even) on a player from another league who we have no idea how he's going to do?

I look at Anthony Gordon tearing it up for Newcastle at the moment, and they got him from Everton for half as much as Antony cost us. The type of signing Fergie would have been all over back in the day.

I know we signed Mount for 50m quid who's been a disaster (mainly cos he's never fit) but we also got Evans and Eriksen on free transfers from other PL clubs and they've been two of our most consistent performers. I just think the club do not place enough of an emphasis of PL track record when recruiting players, when evidence shows it should be a major factor.
Click to expand...
I basically agree with you. There might be a premium on the cost-side, but there is also an advantage to be already adapted to the PL - and easier to scout and assess accurately, which reduces risk. And sometimes decent deals are available (such as Gordon).
 
sullydnl said:
Conversely, Ian Graham (the Liverpool data guy) gave a presentation a few months ago where he listed five key mistakes when it comes to recruitment. And one of them was "he knows the league".

How many of the top 20 signings from other PL sides have actually lived up to the (often inflated) price tag?

Jack Grealish
Declan Rice
Caicedo
Lukaku (Chelsea)
Maguire
Lukaku (United)
Van Dijk
Fofana
Havertz
Mahrez
Cucurella
Sterling (City)
Lavia
Mattheus Nunes
Ben White
Fernando Torres
Richarlison
Sterling (Chelsea)
Stones
Brennan Johnson

There are still an awful lot of misses in that list despite the security that recruiting from within the same league supposedly brings. And several cases where rather than weaken their opponents, teams handed their opponents an awful lot of money for a player without overly strengethening themselves.
Click to expand...
Actually, there isn't an awful lot of misses in that list. If you compare it to the sort of success rate you typically see in PL clubs for their major transfers, it's very good. Quite a few might have been bit overpriced, but where that leaves things is "higher cost, lower risk".
 
Looking at Maguire maybe we should buy less local :lol:

Top PL talent does not want to come to United any more as well. Now they dream of City or Liverpool
 
The trick we are missing is the Championship, not the Premier League. There’s talent a plenty in there if you’re willing to take the risk;

Eze
Olise
Gyokeres
Bowen
Mbuemo
Toney
Watkins

Few examples of recent ones who have come up. There’s a few in there now that would be good signings too.
 
Paying extra for a mystery box, hoping there's a superstar in it, is more exciting than paying for players who already proved themselves in the league. The mistaken belief that there are little Messi's out there waiting to be scooped up is an addictive dream. Won't even list them, but imagine we had spent the Højlund money on a PL striker. Where's the thrill in that?!
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Paying extra for a mystery box, hoping there's a superstar in it, is more exciting than paying for players who already proved themselves in the league. The mistaken belief that there are little Messi's out there waiting to be scooped up is an addictive dream. Won't even list them, but imagine we had spent the Højlund money on a PL striker. Where's the thrill in that?!
Click to expand...

Whoever saw a little Messi in Hojlund needs to share the substances he ingests for breakfast
 
TheReligion said:
The trick we are missing is the Championship, not the Premier League. There’s talent a plenty in there if you’re willing to take the risk;

Eze
Olise
Gyokeres
Bowen
Mbuemo
Toney
Watkins

Few examples of recent ones who have come up. There’s a few in there now that would be good signings too.
Click to expand...
Yep this. Buying from the prem most of the time is dumb, because unless it’s a locked in super star you’ll be overpaying for what are largely average players. The edge is finding the best Championship stars and getting them in for less than half the price.

We could do it in the past because the league was far more poor in the bottom half, but with the money teams have now everyone can afford to keep their top players and hold out for mega bids, so unless you want to take a 100m gamble on someone you most likely aren’t going to get any value from majority of PL teams.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yep this. Buying from the prem most of the time is dumb, because unless it’s a locked in super star you’ll be overpaying for what are largely average players. The edge is finding the best Championship stars and getting them in for less than half the price.

We could do it in the past because the league was far more poor in the bottom half, but with the money teams have now everyone can afford to keep their top players and hold out for mega bids, so unless you want to take a 100m gamble on someone you most likely aren’t going to get any value from majority of PL teams.
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I hope we start looking in the Championship under Inoes
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
True. I’m being a bit pedantic though.
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Pedantically, to be pedantic is to be excessively concerned with minor details or rules. As the rules were clearly outlined in the OP (and thus not minor) and the details decidedly not "minor," you cannot be deemed to be excessive in your concern of them, nor the willful breaking of them by the poster you quoted, severely breaking them as they did.

You are no true pedant. Give back your card!
 
didz said:
Pedantically, to be pedantic is to be excessively concerned with minor details or rules. As the rules were clearly outlined in the OP (and thus not minor) and the details decidedly not "minor," you cannot be deemed to be excessive in your concern of them, nor the willfully breaking of them by the poster you quoted, severely breaking them as they did.

You are no true pedant. Give back your card!
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
 
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