Why do we have an awful away record under Erik Ten hag?

I think this is part of the bigger problem where we just seem to collectively shit the bed whenever we face any sort of psychological adversity on the pitch, or just have lapses of concentration at inopportune times. (e.g. conceding immediately after we went 1-0 up)

It doesn't help that we don't have control of the ball and constantly lose possession leading to opponents creating chances.
 
Isotope said:
This. Even in Fergie's era, we rarely dominated away games against "big teams". Trashing those "smaller teams" were our bread and butter of winning the League, or came close to it.
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Times have changed though.

We're going to have start picking up points against the top half of the table at some point.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Times have changed though.

We're going to have start picking up points against the top half of the table at some point.
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We do, eventually. But easily brushing smaller teams is one big step forward to it.
 
Team looks gassed around 70 minutes as always. No idea what they do on training ground but even relegation folders can easily outpace this team in the long run
 
Because ETH is the most overrated coach in world football,
 
This is a team that was on the ropes vs a 10 man Notts Forest and conceded 23 shots to a godawful Wolves side. Both at home.

Fact is we're not very good and as stated earlier in this thread, incapable of controlling a football therefore invite pressure on to oursevles. I was hoping for some evolution in this side of our game this season and whilst we looked okay keeping it in our own third, we continue to treat the ball like a hot potato in midfield and in the opponents third.
 
- We approach games too negatively, largely sitting deep and inviting pressure

- The set up: a midfield of Casemiro, Eriksen & Bruno will never work in such games, in terms of control... Too easily outrun/dominated
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
What makes you say that?

Is your tagline a WUM btw? :lol:
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:lol: ffs I’ve literally just seen my tagline change :lol:

It’s weird actually cuz I think the tagline comes from a conversation a few weeks back where I was saying how I think some managers are better suited to specific leagues while not necessarily being better coaches overall, and I said that I think de Zerbi is better suited to the PL than ETH (NOT Guardiola… no idea why they put that there….) but isn’t necessarily a better coach than him.

I think Klopp is better suited to the PL than LvG was, but saying ‘Klopp’s a better manager than LvG was’ isn’t a statement I agree with.

I just really don’t think ETH is particularly well suited to the PL, his football hasn’t transitioned (pun not intended) well and he’s now trying to change what he’s doing and isn’t really THAT far from what Ole was doing before the wheels fell off.

I know ETH doesn’t have the best squad, but he’s spent 400m ffs. His signings still have many question marks around them and if Hojlund flops, ETH is gonna find it a very, very long season imo.

I don’t think he’s a bad coach, far from it, I just don’t think his approach to football and his squad use is particularly well suited to the current PL.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
:lol: ffs I’ve literally just seen my tagline change :lol:

It’s weird actually cuz I think the tagline comes from a conversation a few weeks back where I was saying how I think some managers are better suited to specific leagues while not necessarily being better coaches overall, and I said that I think de Zerbi is better suited to the PL than ETH (NOT Guardiola… no idea why they put that there….) but isn’t necessarily a better coach than him.

I think Klopp is better suited to the PL than LvG was, but saying ‘Klopp’s a better manager than LvG was’ isn’t a statement I agree with.

I just really don’t think ETH is particularly well suited to the PL, his football hasn’t transitioned (pun not intended) well and he’s now trying to change what he’s doing and isn’t really THAT far from what Ole was doing before the wheels fell off.

I know ETH doesn’t have the best squad, but he’s spent 400m ffs. His signings still have many question marks around them and if Hojlund flops, ETH is gonna find it a very, very long season imo.

I don’t think he’s a bad coach, far from it, I just don’t think his approach to football and his squad use is particularly well suited to the current PL.
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Why do you think what ETH is trying to do is similar to Ole before the wheels fell off?
 
Isotope said:
This. Even in Fergie's era, we rarely dominated away games against "big teams". Trashing those "smaller teams" were our bread and butter of winning the League, or came close to it.
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Still, there's a massive gulf between dominating big away games and losing every away game against a top half team.

We can and should improve our record without expecting to dominate those games.
 
red.knight said:
We have a terrible away record under Erik Ten hag. Our away record against last season’s top 9 teams read as 8 losses and 1 draw. Some of these loses include a humiliating 7-0 loss to Liverpool, a 6-3 spanking to City and 4-0 defeat at Brentford.

After our first away 2-0 loss against Spurs this season, new questions have to asked about Ten hag’s ability to set-up teams away from home.

Our away record against top 9 teams last season
Brentford 4-0
City 6-3
Villa 3-1
Arsenal 3-2
Liverpool 7-0 :mad:
Newcastle 2-0
Spurs 2-2
Brighton 1-0

That is a goal difference of -20. This is not acceptable but I am wondering how Ten hag can fix this.
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Ten Hag is a tactically naive manager.

How many weeks has it taken Ange Postecoglou to turn Tottenham into an effective machine after losing their best generational talent(Harry Kane).

United players are the laziest bunch in the league. The way Rashford gave up the ball leading to Jesus’ 3rd goal for Arsenal should only be happening in a Sunday league.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Why do you think what ETH is trying to do is similar to Ole before the wheels fell off?
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Inability to build up attacks, maintain any form of shape or plan, no playing style whatsoever beyond counter attacks, vagueries to being the best at something but never implementing anything that might help that, completely reliant on moments rather than cohesive play.
 
matherto said:
Inability to build up attacks, maintain any form of shape or plan, no playing style whatsoever beyond counter attacks, vagueries to being the best at something but never implementing anything that might help that, completely reliant on moments rather than cohesive play.
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The 1st bolded bit is clearly not true and has been debunked numerous times on here with video evidence.

We have an ability to build up attacks. It's far better than it was at any point under Ole. Can it be better? Yes it can. We didn't progress play enough today with vertical passes(something ETH bemoaned in his presser), but towards the end of the half, we did fairly well in controlled possession play and were progressing up the field decently enough.

We've made signings to adhere to ETH's want of being the best transition team in the world. Mount, Onana, Hojlund and Amrabrat will help tremendously in this regard.

And for the last bolded bit, this has also been debunked numerous times. There was literally a clip shared in here about our build-up play vs Forest and how it led to the red card. The equalizer vs Forest was clearly cohesive play and a routine set-piece play.
 
Jackal said:
Ten Hag is a tactically naive manager.

How many weeks has it taken Ange Postecoglou to turn Tottenham into an effective machine after losing their best generational talent(Harry Kane).

United players are the laziest bunch in the league. The way Rashford gave up the ball leading to Jesus’ 3rd goal for Arsenal should only be happening in a Sunday league.
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'Effective machine'

It's been 4 games. We got off to a flying start under Jose in his 2nd season and we all know how that turned out.

Let's see how the table looks 2 months down the road.
 
Revan said:
1 point out of 33 when it comes to away matches against top 10. Is this the worst any EPL manager with 10+ matches has ever done? Genuinely curious.
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Shouldn't you be brushing up on your statistics homework mate?
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
'Effective machine'

It's been 4 games. We got off to a flying start under Jose in his 2nd season and we all know how that turned out.

Let's see how the table looks 2 months down the road.
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Jose finished 2nd - beat all the other 19 teams in the league that season. It was a stellar season and I remember Jose going to the Emirates that season to pump Arsenal 1-3 despite Pogba’s red card.

I am pretty sure that was the last time United won a league game at the Emirates. Man Utd are currently 6 points behind the league leaders with only 4 games played. If this doesn’t give you any concern, you should find interests in another sport.
 
Jackal said:
Jose finished 2nd - beat all the other 19 teams in the league that season. It was a stellar season and I remember Jose going to the Emirates that season to pump Arsenal 1-3 despite Pogba’s red card.

I am pretty sure that was the last time United won a league game at the Emirates. Man Utd are currently 6 points behind the league leaders with only 4 games played. If this doesn’t give you any concern, you should find interests in another sport.
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One can easily refute this point by saying you would have been ludicrous thinking City will run away with the title during the 2017-2018 season considering our amazing start. It's only 4 games. If we continue this roller-coaster 1-2 months down the road, then I'll worry. But I am pretty sure we will start racking up wins after the break.

Jose finished 2nd, but our 2nd half of that season was brutal(far from a stellar season considering our UCL exit and the toxicity that was beginning to set in).The fact you cited that 3-1 win at the Emirates as a plus to Jose says it all. We got destroyed that game and only won because De Gea had one of the best shot-stopping performances of all-time. Anyone dubbing it a Jose masterclass is deluded.

We played much better today than we did that game. Anyone who thinks otherwise should go find interest in another sport to use your words.
 
Abraxas said:
I think the biggest reason is a mental fragility that still exists within this bunch.

You can get into the tactical side with maybe Casemiro having to do too much, not enough work-rate from the front from the likes of Rashford and Martial making our press ineffective, players that give away the ball for fun and put us under pressure in away matches where the crowd play a role.

But a game like today highlights the biggest side of it - mental fragiility and individual errors. The former leading to the latter. We lack composure and decision making in these away games and it has probably become self-perpetuating in the sense they're probably aware of how crap this record is and they're already fearing the worst. There was absolutely no need to lose today. Arsenal didn't play that well, we nearly win the game on the counter then proceed to throw it all away. We score the first goal, and immediately throw it away within seconds. If that's not mental fragility I don't know what is.

Ultimately it comes back to the manager, he's the one that has to galvanise the group and toughen them up. He needs to find answers to it.
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Yeah until they snap this streak of away losses then what happened today will be a regular occurrence. There is serious mental fragility there when they are trying to defend a lead or hold on for a point. Having said that people who say we don't go on the front foot enough are absolutely spot on as well.
 
flappyjay said:
We have no interest in controlling the game. We play to the other teams beat, then we seat back and hope to hit them on the counter.
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You are absolutely spot on because for some reason Erik doesn't value possession enough
 
croadyman said:
You are absolutely spot on because for some reason Erik doesn't value possession enough
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Yep, and nothing really changes when everyone is fit. The standard of premier league is improving every year, we cant control the ball but also not defensively solid, so will never beat the big clubs.
 
We don't instinctively recognise our own kits because of colour? Woah, I thought you were playing for the other side bro and didn't pass.
 
Have we actually won an away game under ETH as underdogs? We've won at Fulham, we "won" at Sociedad when it was essentially a loss and we won at Betis, but that's it really?

We just don't seem to give ourselves a chance against anyone half decent away. We're so open.
 
red.knight said:
We have a terrible away record under Erik Ten hag. Our away record against last season’s top 9 teams read as 8 losses and 1 draw. Some of these loses include a humiliating 7-0 loss to Liverpool, a 6-3 spanking to City and 4-0 defeat at Brentford.

After our first away 2-0 loss against Spurs this season, new questions have to asked about Ten hag’s ability to set-up teams away from home.

Our away record against top 9 teams last season
Brentford 4-0
City 6-3
Villa 3-1
Arsenal 3-2
Liverpool 7-0 :mad:
Newcastle 2-0
Spurs 2-2
Brighton 1-0

That is a goal difference of -20. This is not acceptable but I am wondering how Ten hag can fix this.
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We had the opposite problem with Ole. I remember at one point we had the best away record in the league but weren’t doing well at home. Maybe we should bring back Ole as an assistant manager instead of Mcclaren :wenger:
 
DiMaria said:
We had the opposite problem with Ole. I remember at one point we had the best away record in the league but weren’t doing well at home. Maybe we should bring back Ole as an assistant manager instead of Mcclaren :wenger:
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That was during empty stadiums though, so the distinction between "home" and "away" goes out the door.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
That was during empty stadiums though, so the distinction between "home" and "away" goes out the door.
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Maybe our players then are suited for that training ground atmosphere without any fans . But I actually think part of it was the type of football we played back then, it was a counter attacking brand that worked well “away” from home when even without fans the home team played more attacking and we were compact and quick on the counter.
 
Because of Erik ten Hag.

We're a team that sets up to get punched in the mouth. Other top teams have ways they mitigate this, Erik has none. I've lost count of how often the space between our midfield and fullbacks gets cut through so easily, especially on the left hand side where he loves to play Eriksen.

His solution to this was to by Mount to push up higher and leave even more space between the CM and fullbacks. You really can't make it up, he is the primary culprit for the poor away form.
 
TMDaines said:
Have we actually won an away game under ETH as underdogs? We've won at Fulham, we "won" at Sociedad when it was essentially a loss and we won at Betis, but that's it really?

We just don't seem to give ourselves a chance against anyone half decent away. We're so open.
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Zero wins away from home vs a good team.

Amazing to be honest.
 
Ever since Brighton away last year, our loss margin was very slim. We pretty much lost all the matches in the dying minutes of the game. Brighton, Arsenal away this year, Bayern, etc.
 
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