Why do we have an awful away record under Erik Ten hag?

red.knight

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We have a terrible away record under Erik Ten hag. Our away record against last season’s top 9 teams read as 8 losses and 1 draw. Some of these loses include a humiliating 7-0 loss to Liverpool, a 6-3 spanking to City and 4-0 defeat at Brentford.

After our first away 2-0 loss against Spurs this season, new questions have to asked about Ten hag’s ability to set-up teams away from home.

Our away record against top 9 teams last season
Brentford 4-0
City 6-3
Villa 3-1
Arsenal 3-2
Liverpool 7-0 :mad:
Newcastle 2-0
Spurs 2-2
Brighton 1-0

That is a goal difference of -20. This is not acceptable but I am wondering how Ten hag can fix this.
 
Tactical set up has been very naive in a lot of them.

In some of these big away games it feels like once we go a goal or two down we’re totally dejected and even basic footballing mechanisms fly out the window too
 
Most of the time the other team scores more than us. Needs rectifying imo.
 
I think if we go to a midfield 3 of Amrabat Casemiro and Bruno/Mount in the away games against good opposition we'd win a lot more points away. If we can keep our home form the same and improve our away form we'll have a very good season.
 
We're a very fragile team in the sense that-.

A) Some of our players are mentally weak and easily rattled and/or dejected.

B) We're doing something that is very new to our players and it hasn't yet become second-nature/muscle memory. We also haven't worked out what to do in-game when teams make tweaks to counter our tactics. Again, this comes with time.

The result of this is that in away games in particular, we tend to absolutely crumble and make compounding errors when we encounter adversity. See numerous examples including City, Liverpool, Brentford, Villa and Sevilla.

The Spurs away game this season is another good example because we absolutely dominated that game and played superbly for 40-mins. As soon as Bruno made that horror-miss and we conceded one chance at the other end, it all completely and utterly fell apart.

There's two ways to rectify this.

1) Remove the players with weak mentalities, which I believe is slowly happening (still too many Rashford's/Martial's).

2) Continue coaching the new system/tactics until the players know it inside out and backwards. That way, it shouldn't all fall apart so easily with every minor setback. We can then also coach "if/then" scenarios into the team. So IF the opposition switch to a back 3, we do X. IF they invert their fullbacks, we do Y.

The above is also why it makes me laugh when people talk about a manager having had "time" in football. Fans talk as if 6-months or a season is 'enough time', which is laughable. You need two/three seasons with largely the same group to get a new system/tactic to really tick.
 
That amazing away record is actually something that can get him sacked. Not that it's entirely his fault but yeah.
 
Just remember though that the push to get him over Poch was poch’s supposed poor record away to the big six.
Never trust the cafe with managers, honestly they’re clueless as feck.
 
We don’t really. We have an awful away record against teams we are not better than.
 
Our DNA has become to just concede control to teams and let them play football while we hope for a counter attack goal.
 
Ludens the Red said:
Just remember though that the push to get him over Poch was poch’s supposed poor record away to the big six.
Never trust the cafe with managers, honestly they’re clueless as feck.
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Oh bore off with your Poch nonsense. The man has less points than us.
 
hopefully ETH will learn sometimes you consolidate the point away against top 6/7 teams, he’s had over 12 months i’m seeing 1 step forward 2 steps backwards, I’m a huge fan but I’m not enamoured with most of his signings, assuming he’s now spent £400m, I would expect a team that’s hard to beat, we’ve already lost both away games by 2 goals to Top 7 opponents, and we have no cutting edge upfront.

Same 4 Prem leagues Matches from last year we had 7 points, this year 6 he needs a huge improvement in our attacking play , becoming more ruthless otherwise he could genuinely lose his job. I was expecting at least 2.3 of all transfers from South America and the J League not Mason Mounts and Antony for 1/3 of that transfer spend ?
 
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We never go out on our front foot. Were happing to defend on our own box and are ultimately punished either by a great goal or a stupid mistake.
 
This is not the game to discuss this. Deserved the win, or at least a draw.
 
I think the biggest reason is a mental fragility that still exists within this bunch.

You can get into the tactical side with maybe Casemiro having to do too much, not enough work-rate from the front from the likes of Rashford and Martial making our press ineffective, players that give away the ball for fun and put us under pressure in away matches where the crowd play a role.

But a game like today highlights the biggest side of it - mental fragiility and individual errors. The former leading to the latter. We lack composure and decision making in these away games and it has probably become self-perpetuating in the sense they're probably aware of how crap this record is and they're already fearing the worst. There was absolutely no need to lose today. Arsenal didn't play that well, we nearly win the game on the counter then proceed to throw it all away. We score the first goal, and immediately throw it away within seconds. If that's not mental fragility I don't know what is.

Ultimately it comes back to the manager, he's the one that has to galvanise the group and toughen them up. He needs to find answers to it.
 
Part of it is I think the team still seems pretty weak mentally. Against Liverpool and Brentford especially they just packed it in.
 
Casemiro and Eriksen for the most part.

Two lightweight players who are easy to play through. They can't keep up with the pace of game. They can't play in tight spaces. They can't keep the ball under pressure. They don't value having possession in the final third in terms of keeping the pressure on the opposition team - they have to go for the Hollywood ball ASAP which usually results in the opposition regaining possession.

You cannot compete with the better teams when the centre of your team is this bad. Bruno isn't that much better either.
 
Losing can become a bad habit.

You can just feel it when the Garnacho’s goal got overturned, the players were spent and even their mental energy got sapped, they didn’t believe they could get a result anymore and played timidly for the closing minutes.

Leaving the tactics aside, many of our players carry mental scars from all the drubbings and last minutes losses, and they resurfaced from time to time.
 
The Brentford freak game closely followed by City has made us crushed mentally. You could see when that goal was disallowed that we would go on to lose. Mentality midgets.

ETH won’t make us challenge until he’s not having to wheel out Evans and Maguire though so it’s not all on him.
 
Could be worse this season if we have to see out many 8-12 mins of extra time each match.

We just don't have the fitness, mental strength, it's game 4 and we have Maguire and Evans back there.
 
Because we drop so deep with midfielders who can't/ won't track midfield runners.
 
Personally think the home records a bit of a fluke as well. When it corrects itself, it'll be like getting hit by a double decker
 
Were naive and the players sometimes don't show enough urgency when defending dangerous moves from the opposition.
 
We can't manage games. I'm always expecting us to concede late. We're also just not very good, so any decent side will always be the favourite when playing us away from OT.
 
One things for sure, it isn’t a coincidence. This team for the most part is so slow, weak and unathletic so the intensity of tough games is just too much for our players to handle. Even when we start well we look dead on our feet to end the game.

So many players here lack the physicality to compete with their counterparts. Compare how Casemiro ended to the game to Rice, now think of another 5 or 6 players where that gap exists.
 
Tactical set up is too negative and unambitious, quality of our players (especially midfielders) is not good enough, and EtH has simply been tactically outplayed quite a few times.

The team seems mentally weak as well, and away games are probably coming a bit of a complex.
 
Having geriatric and incompetent defenders isn’t helpful.

I just cannot anymore with this team. The mental fragility with these guys is unreal. I don’t see it with any other team other than United.

it’s so exhausting supporting this team under this regime. Nothing changes. It’s just constant shit.
 
Can look at individual circumstances and claim bad luck for certain things for a lot of them tbh but ultimately results simply have to change. I'm sure they will. Bayern and then Newcastle in December, we'll see how those go.

It's a really funny and weird split though the home vs away, as I don't think the performance levels are drastically different so it's more mental in those defining moments or just luck, but yeah.
 
the_cliff said:
I think if we go to a midfield 3 of Amrabat Casemiro and Bruno/Mount in the away games against good opposition we'd win a lot more points away. If we can keep our home form the same and improve our away form we'll have a very good season.
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We’ve lost 2 away games already
We have scored 5 goals and conceded 7 I’d love to share your optimism but this united side will do well coming 5th and hopefully, the English teams do well in Europe for Champions League.


To be clear here 85% of the situation the club is in is fault of the The Glazers and the Board, but make no mistake ETH has 15% culpability. He picks the team, makes the subs advises who the club should spend their money on and as many decisions has he’s got right, he’s got a lot wrong too!
 
Yagami said:
Casemiro and Eriksen for the most part.

Two lightweight players who are easy to play through. They can't keep up with the pace of game. They can't play in tight spaces. They can't keep the ball under pressure. They don't value having possession in the final third in terms of keeping the pressure on the opposition team - they have to go for the Hollywood ball ASAP which usually results in the opposition regaining possession.

You cannot compete with the better teams when the centre of your team is this bad. Bruno isn't that much better either.
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Then why not prioritise a midfielder who helps solve that issue. We all knew it from last season, instead we went for Mount who runs more than Eriksen but falls short in every other area when compared to Eriksen. Someone like Amrabat or better should have been through the door 1st.
 
Are away from is fine for the level of club we are. I think too many United fans are living in the past. We are so far from being a top team. It's why I say time and time again I would prefer us to focus on winning trophies we have a chance in, Europa League for example. And I loved our Carabao run.

We are fighting for 4-7th positions as that is our level. Learn to accept that and you will enjoy the football more and be less stressed.
 
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