Why didn't Fergie choose Mourinho instead of Moyes?

[JimiboyX]

Wind-up aside, there may be a tiny bit of truth that, unconsciously, he didn't want to propose someone who might equal his latter-day (if not total, which would be impossible to emulate) achievements.

It still sounds farfetched tbh.

I do feel like there is some revisionism and some outcome bias going on in people's assessment that Moyes was an objectively terrible choice back in 2013 and wild speculation about Ferguson having ulterior motives.

Football was actually very different a decade ago. Top clubs weren't reliant on sprawling organisational structures and sporting directors the way they are now. Analytics wasn't at the heart of everything. Managers were still winning trophies playing tumescent defensive football. Moyes had objectively just done very, very well at Everton too without spending anything close to a fortune.

So yes there was maybe a hint of Scottish bias and seeing himself in Moyes that made him seem like a disproportionately good choice, but it wasn't the ridiculous choice at the time that it's now being made out to be. Especially given, as others have said, the relative lack of availability of most of the big names.

 

[JediSith]

I think that if you offering someone a huge job you'll be awfully clear about it.

Was more of a tentative (plausible deniability) inquiry happens a lot in business.

Don’t forget SAF wouldn’t want him retiring to hijack United‘a season and possibly sabotage the title run in. As many said, with hindsight, his reaction to losing the Champions League KO to Real was the sign that it was his last season.

 

[stevoc]

I heard it was the December of the season he retired. I think SAF would have already known he was retiring 4-5 months later. Only reason he’d be inviting Pep for dinner we can only speculate

Nope he didn't, it's in Fergies book he met Pep for lunch in December. Later that month his sister in law died and that prompted his decision to retire.

“I had dinner with Pep Guardiola in New York in 2012, but couldn’t make him any direct proposal because retirement was not on my agenda at that point,” Ferguson said.

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/fergie-guardiola-never-got-back-to-me-about-the-united-job-16283

 

[Acheron]

Anyone would had been a better choice than Moyes, as for Mourinho at the time it seemed like he really wanted the United job and with the group of players Ferguson left I also think he could have gotten a lot more out of them than Moyes did and it would had made more sense (for everyone involved) to appoint Mourinho then rather than after LVG who had quite a different approach and had to scrap everything he did.

Perhaps he could have achieved a title or two if we're being optimistic but other than that eventually United would face the same problems with their lack of infrastructure and poor planning. There wasn't much of a planning ahead after SAF retirement, it would have been a good opportunity for some modernization in all aspects and there is quite a big contrast in what City did in advance to prepare everything for Guardiola to take over. At this point it should be obvious the problem isn't solely appointing the wrong manager but the whole club structure and culture within.

 

[stevoc]

All evidence points towards Moyes being Ferguson's first choice once his decision to retire was made.

 

[Sandikan]

It still sounds farfetched tbh.

I do feel like there is some revisionism and some outcome bias going on in people's assessment that Moyes was an objectively terrible choice back in 2013 and wild speculation about Ferguson having ulterior motives.

Football was actually very different a decade ago. Top clubs weren't reliant on sprawling organisational structures and sporting directors the way they are now. Analytics wasn't at the heart of everything. Managers were still winning trophies playing tumescent defensive football. Moyes had objectively just done very, very well at Everton too without spending anything close to a fortune.

So yes there was maybe a hint of Scottish bias and seeing himself in Moyes that made him seem like a disproportionately good choice, but it wasn't the ridiculous choice at the time that it's now being made out to be. Especially given, as others have said, the relative lack of availability of most of the big names.

A lot of us were worried, and a lot of others had to try and put a brave face on it.

The club had come out with a tick sheer of criteria, such as winning trophies and European success.
Moyes had neither, and had barely managed a tiny handful of games in Europe.

The likely truth was we were caught napping with the succession plan and had to go deep down the list of choices, and tried to brand Moyes as the "chosen" one.

 

[Amir]

Was more of a tentative (plausible deniability) inquiry happens a lot in business.

Fergie mentioned quite a few times how Bobby Charlton talked to him during the 1986 World Cup, when he was still at Aberdeen, and suggested he'd give him a call if he ever wants to manage In England. The media took it as some sort of approach. Fergie said he never saw it as some sort of a job offer (though less than six months later, he got to United...).

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

he was worried someone would come in and carry on winning and show him up for being a middling manager. with moyes, his legacy was sealed.

Mods?!

 

[vangagal]

Not going for Mourinho was fine but choose Moyes instead was a criminal offense. The subsequense media briefing about how Moyes just 5th choice was just embarassing as his appointment as manager.

 

[JeffFromHK]

I think we better ask why we didn't approach Pep. Always think that Pep would have chosen us over City if we made a proper attempt to approach him, and we never did.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

I think we better ask why we didn't approach Pep. Always think that Pep would have chosen us over City if we made a proper attempt to approach him, and we never did.

Even if Pep was on his drunkest mood, you think he'd choose the Glazers and our shambolic football structure over City's structure which was tailor-made for his arrival?

 

[Amir]

Not going for Mourinho was fine but choose Moyes instead was a criminal offense. The subsequense media briefing about how Moyes just 5th choice was just embarassing as his appointment as manager.

I guess we'll never know which was the lie: Portraying him as first choice when he was appointed, or as 5th-6th choice after he was sacked.

I tend to believe he was first choice. Somehow I struggle to believe United and Fergie would have just done the simple thing and try to entice one of the best managers who were around at the time, whether it was Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti...

 

[DuruttiColumn]

Would Queiroz really have done any worse than Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole etc?

I don’t think so

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I think he was hoping Moyes could be another version of him. Same nationality. Coming from a smaller club. He was a believer of giving chances to someone he thought earned it.

This

 

[Sassy Colin]

Think Admin needs to look at some of these threads. Rather odd ones springing up. Maybe football trauma or something....

The quality of the FF is going down big time. Not every question needs a new thread.

These are the correct answers

 

[Rozay]

Steely eyed gaze and working class background.

 

[stevoc]

Not going for Mourinho was fine but choose Moyes instead was a criminal offense. The subsequense media briefing about how Moyes just 5th choice was just embarassing as his appointment as manager.

Was there a media briefing?

I can remember SAF saying this shortly after Moyes was sacked but not before and certainly not around the time Moyes was hired. Because of course Moyes wasn't actually Ferguson's 5th choice.

 

[stevoc]

I think we better ask why we didn't approach Pep. Always think that Pep would have chosen us over City if we made a proper attempt to approach him, and we never did.

Was already going to Bayern by the time SAF decided to retire.

 

[stevoc]

I guess we'll never know which was the lie: Portraying him as first choice when he was appointed, or as 5th-6th choice after he was sacked.

I tend to believe he was first choice. Somehow I struggle to believe United and Fergie would have just done the simple thing and try to entice one of the best managers who were around at the time, whether it was Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti...

Indeed, and I would be genuinely baffled if someone read Feries book or excerpts regarding Moyes and came to any other conclusion.

 

[gajender]

I do think Moyes was first Choice to replace Sir Alex and there is lot of revisionism about that decision when it didn't work out but I don't think it's that far fetched to think he wasn't and when we didn't get others due to xyz reason we opted for Him and consciously made a concerted effort to make it seem like he was the chosen one all along but as soon as it didn't work out everybody tried to distance themselves from that decision .

 

[stevoc]

I do think Moyes was first Choice to replace Sir Alex and there is lot of revisionism about that decision when it didn't work out but I don't think it's that far fetched to think he wasn't and when we didn't get others due to xyz reason we opted for Him and consciously made a concerted effort to make it seem like he was the chosen one all along but as soon as it didn't work out everybody tried to distance themselves from that decision .

Well by the time SAF decided to retire if Pep had been available maybe it would have been different. But other than that Moyes was the first choice, SAF was telling him from early February 2013 not to renew his contract with Everton confirms that, this was before he'd even told Gill or the club he was retiring. He didn't even speak to Ancelotti or Klopp until April 2013, where it's not exactly clear if they were even offered the job.

 

[Skills]

I think the answer is as usual a lot simpler than people want to make out.

Moyes was his mate, he'd done a great job at Everton (in SAFs eyes) and had "earned" the opportunity to manage a club like United. SAF overvalued some of the characteristics he saw in Moyes to the point where he was the best candidate in his eyes.

There's been loads of backpedaling since about Guardiola/Klopp etc but the choice all along was Moyes. The rumours were flying around for a while before SAF retired anyway.

He made a mistake. It shouldn't have been a big deal. We made it a big deal by giving him a 6 year contract. We made it worse by keeping him around even when it was obvious he was miles out of his depth. It was a bad experiment that should have been binned off in November. But we kept him around to the point where the recovery became a lot more difficult than it needed to be.

Top top: if you see a fire in your kitchen, put it out asap. You might just need to refurb the kitchen. Don't let it burn your entire fecking house down.

 

[Amir]

He made a mistake. It shouldn't have been a big deal. We made it a big deal by giving him a 6 year contract. We made it worse by keeping him around even when it was obvious he was miles out of his depth. It was a bad experiment that should have been binned off in November. But we kept him around to the point where the recovery became a lot more difficult than it needed to be.

I don'r think giving him most of the season made a difference. What would sacking him in November have achieved? As a club we lost all football knowledge starting the summer of 2013. If we sacked Moyes early, we'd have just started the managerial go around earlier, and who knows with what manager.

 

[golden_blunder]

I think we better ask why we didn't approach Pep. Always think that Pep would have chosen us over City if we made a proper attempt to approach him, and we never did.

SAF did have a chat with him about the job at a dinner in NYC. Pep jokes that he couldn’t understand him. The truth is that the wheels were already in motion to being pep to city with his DoF team already being hired 2 years prior to get the structure in place for his arrival. Pep was never really an option for anyone else

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Not going for Mourinho was fine but choose Moyes instead was a criminal offense. The subsequense media briefing about how Moyes just 5th choice was just embarassing as his appointment as manager.

A lot of that didn't even come from United. For example, Carlo Ancelotti said that SAF approached him about the United job and they had a meeting but Ancelotti turned it down because he was already close to joining Madrid.

 

[Red the Bear]

We wouldn't have had that last great season had he chosen to retire at the end of 2011/12 season but one has to wonder whether the timing would have been more beneficial in terms of landing a top manager, Ancelotti still hadn't gone to Madrid and even pep could have potentially been a candidate.

 

[horsechoker]

We wouldn't have had that last great season had he chosen to retire at the end of 2011/12 season but one has to wonder whether the timing would have been more beneficial in terms of landing a top manager, Ancelotti still hadn't gone to Madrid and even pep could have potentially been a candidate.

Losing the title to City in the last minute then Fergie retiring? That would've been brutal

 

[galwayfa]

Crazy picking Moyes, Mourinho at the time was the pick but not going for Klopp when we did go for Mourinho was also a joke

 

[stevoc]

Crazy picking Moyes, Mourinho at the time was the pick but not going for Klopp when we did go for Mourinho was also a joke

Apparently Klopp was Eds first choice but he turned it down.

 

[Red the Bear]

Losing the title to City in the last minute then Fergie retiring? That would've been brutal

He probably couldn't put up with that either, and there's probably an alternative reality where we do end up outgunned city to the title and Fergie retires there and then(although not perfect either seeing how close that would have been).

Still with hindsight included would you have taken him retiring then had we been guaranteed to land a better manager than moyes?

 

[redIndianDevil]

We would have been better off if he hadn’t chosen anyone. The Glazers might have stumbled on to someone better

 

[Amir]

Still with hindsight included would you have taken him retiring then had we been guaranteed to land a better manager than moyes?

I wouldn't. It would be unfathomable for Fergie to finish like that. And, honestly, I don't think a better manager would have made a huge difference in the medium-long term.

Would a better manager than Moyes have achieved better results in 2013/14? Yes, but ultimately we would have needed to freshen the squad up in order to compete and the lack of structure that still damages us now would have done it back then as well, whether it was 2013 ot 2014;

 

[Amir]

SAF did have a chat with him about the job at a dinner in NYC. Pep jokes that he couldn’t understand him. The truth is that the wheels were already in motion to being pep to city with his DoF team already being hired 2 years prior to get the structure in place for his arrival. Pep was never really an option for anyone else

While City may have made moves in hope Pep will join them eventually, it wouldn't have been a deal done three and half year prior.

 

[Baxquux]

While City may have made moves in hope Pep will join them eventually, it wouldn't have been a deal done three and half year prior.

They were thinking long-term. Something which the Glazers may be simply unable to do, at least as a 'corporate consciousness' , with short-term profit and mixed motivations on the line, plus SAF being in post 2013 meaning that footballing operations inevitably skewed towards an old-school model anyway.

Clubs like Brighton think about the manage to replace their newly recruited manager, and 4-5 year cycles (we know this from interviews/features), and likewise City would have been thinking about how to emulate and build upon then arguably the most successful 'modern' system in terms of sustainable player recruitment and development, -La Masia and the Barca mode, since all profit-making was only in the service of brand-building, including the flourishing of the footballing side, and fulfilling any future rules around FFP rather than about short-term gains.

 

[Acheron]

I think we better ask why we didn't approach Pep. Always think that Pep would have chosen us over City if we made a proper attempt to approach him, and we never did.

He wouldn't he's very smart when picking jobs and he made the right call going to Bayern Munich and then Manchester City.

 

[Coleyoscar]

I think he was hoping Moyes could be another version of him. Same nationality. Coming from a smaller club. He was a believer of giving chances to someone he thought earned it.

Precisely.

People on recruitment interview boards are often warned against unintentional bias. One of the potential risks is sometimes labelled "Just like me". There's a natural inclination to favour someone who comes from your hometown, went to the same school or university as you, worked in the same area as you, etc., etc. You have to guard against this partiality and treat every candidate purely on their merits.

I suspect Sir Alex fell prey to this inclination and, as DJ_21 rightly says he hoped "Moyes could be another version of him". It's hard to see any other reason.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I think he was hoping Moyes could be another version of him. Same nationality. Coming from a smaller club. He was a believer of giving chances to someone he thought earned it.

Exactly this.

I always thought it’s actually a very revealing facet of SAF’s own humbleness that he genuinely thought Moyes could do what he did. It’s so ridiculous to us looking in, but to the great man, he actually believed that.

The one that I regret is not getting Klopp… he’s really the guy that could’ve succeeded under the Glazers imo and suited Utd’s ethos and attitude to a tee. He really could’ve been SAF’s replacement imo.

 

[Chicharo]

The issue wasn't just about finding a successor to Fergie, but also the fact that the club was entirely unprepared for the necessary transition. With an aging squad, several seasons went by without the acquisition of a quality central midfielder (Sneijder saga, Scholes coming back from retirement). It was evident at that time that the team was lacking players in other positions as well, such as RB... It's like everyone was expecting SAF would be around forever

 

[lon ball2]

The single most important thing that was needed to step into Sir Alex’s shoes was self-belief, and Jose still had that in spades. He would have suited that squad too, who may have been limited, but they were all “Mourinho material” to a tee.
But I’d argue, post Jose, we might have still ended up in a mess…

Then perhaps you think about maybe LVG deserved at least another season, that foundations would’ve been laid for someone young and dynamic to build upon (eg imagine ETH following LVG). But then the brain remembers at the time Giggs was being groomed. Planning like that is just bonkers, and we’ve been suffering from it for over ten years now. We’re actually lucky we’re not in an even bigger mess.

The rot had already set in with the whole “no value in the market” malarkey. But Ferguson’s sheer force of will and ability saw us through

 

[lon ball2]

They were thinking long-term. Something which the Glazers may be simply unable to do, at least as a 'corporate consciousness' , with short-term profit and mixed motivations on the line, plus SAF being in post 2013 meaning that footballing operations inevitably skewed towards an old-school model anyway.

Clubs like Brighton think about the manage to replace their newly recruited manager, and 4-5 year cycles (we know this from interviews/features), and likewise City would have been thinking about how to emulate and build upon then arguably the most successful 'modern' system in terms of sustainable player recruitment and development, -La Masia and the Barca mode, since all profit-making was only in the service of brand-building, including the flourishing of the footballing side, and fulfilling any future rules around FFP rather than about short-term gains.

I agree, I bet Brighton have a shortlist of managers they are monitoring if Di Zebri is poached. So why shouldn’t we if ETH is dismissed? You just know we don’t, hence bouncing from one style of football to another, one aim of recruitment to another. The club is, and always will be reactionary under the Glazers