Why did we buy Fred?

12OunceEpilogue said:
I don't think he's being trashed here today, most people want him to do well but are worried about his future here given he's struggling for game time.
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Maybe not trashing on him, but his future. Pretty much what happened in Lindelof thread.

Writing him off so soon before giving him more time to prove himself.
 
So that we can play him in Ultimate team. He is a beast
 
meamth said:
Maybe not trashing on him, but his future. Pretty much what happened in Lindelof thread.

Writing him off so soon before giving him more time to prove himself.
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Yeah I don't suppose the thread title is a ringing endorsement. However most fans I speak to are willing to be patient with Fred, given he's come to a new league under what turned out to be a doomed regime. The difficulty comes if Ole doesn't fancy Fred, the new man has nothing to go off other than pre-season sessions and his football with Shaktar and he's deemed surplus to requirements and worth cashing in on before he even gets a chance in 2019/20.
 
12OunceEpilogue said:
Yeah I don't suppose the thread title is a ringing endorsement. However most fans I speak to are willing to be patient with Fred, given he's come to a new league under what turned out to be a doomed regime. The difficulty comes if Ole doesn't fancy Fred, the new man has nothing to go off other than pre-season sessions and his football with Shaktar and he's deemed surplus to requirements and worth cashing in on before he even gets a chance in 2019/20.
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The thing is with Fred, I can see him succeed here.

He got some flair, a little bit of pace and technique to be a player here. Maybe Ole will work on his fitness to make him a better player suited to the premier league.

He got the ingredients to play for United, I can only wish him the best of luck.
 
Having had time to digest the game since yesterday, I think he'd have been a great sub to bring on in place of Martial. He would have had the fresh legs and engine to man-mark Erikson all over the pitch who's positional change it was that seemed to cause us the biggest problems.
 
I think he can definitely be a good player for us but it is hard to understand where he was supposed to fit in. An upgrade on Herrera/Pogba cover was the idea I guess.
 
Fred was a Mourinho signing and the player was quoted as saying he joined us due to Mourinho wanting him. Mourinho also gave quite a few interviews to Brazilian media where he stated a Brazilian could very well be playing under him soon.

Let's not shit on the club scouts and Woodward in this instance.
 
Lindelof should be a good example of how we need to be patient with players.
The lad has talent. He is slowly adjusting to the country.
 
He will find a spot in the team soon before long. Too good not to.
 
gza the genius said:
I think he can definitely be a good player for us but it is hard to understand where he was supposed to fit in. An upgrade on Herrera/Pogba cover was the idea I guess.
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Yes, I have the same problem working out what his role is supposed to be. Our midfielders presently seem to have quite specific roles - Matic is the defensive midfielder, Herrera the ball winner, Lingard the advanced midfielder, and Pogba the main creative midfielder. As a system it's working quite well, so presumably Fred would need to show he is able to serve as a direct replacement for one or more of the present incumbents.

It would be great if he could replace Matic, who is probably approaching the end of his career at United, but I think his game is more in the vein of Herrera or Lingard.
 
Adnan said:
Fred was a Mourinho signing and the player was quoted as saying he joined us due to Mourinho wanting him. Mourinho also gave quite a few interviews to Brazilian media where he stated a Brazilian could very well be playing under him soon.

Let's not shit on the club scouts and Woodward in this instance.
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What's this quote prove anything ? Basically the same basic stuff any player says when joining a club. It was obvious he was our scouts choice as Mourinho barely played him. Also it was in the same summer Ed vetoed CBs because they were expensive so care to tell us the rational behind him sanctioning this deal if it was Mourinho's choice and an underwhelming one too ?
 
I have absolutely zero belief in an assumption that Fred was bought without having consulted with Jose. I also have zero belief that we spent fifty million quid on a player that was not wanted by the manager.
 
el3mel said:
What's this quote prove anything ? Basically the same basic stuff any player says when joining a club. It was obvious he was our scouts choice as Mourinho barely played him. Also it was in the same summer Ed vetoed CBs because they were expensive so care to tell us the rational behind him sanctioning this deal if it was Mourinho's choice and an underwhelming one too ?
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Why would the club over look Willian in favour of signing a player from the Ukrainian league? And that for a ridiculous fee..

Fred might not have been Mourinho's first choice, But to say Woodward and the scouts were buying players without Mourinho's consent is quite simply bollox. Jason Burt who is a decent Journo also says all the signings made were Mourinho signings.
 
Adnan said:
Why would the club over look Willian in favour of signing a player from the Ukrainian league? And that for a ridiculous fee..

Fred might not have been Mourinho's first choice, But to say Woodward and the scouts were buying players without Mourinho's consent is quite simply bollox. Jason Burt who is a decent Journo also says all the signings made were Mourinho signings.
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Umm scouts ? And being scouted by City previously too ? He wasn't unknown.

It wasn't without Mourinho's consent, but it's obvious it wasn't his choice also. The most logical situation is that scouts suggested Fred on us and Mourinho said "ok, go for it". Not that he himself wanted him or not but it was a scouts suggestion and he agreed on it.

Again that was the same summer Ed vetoed Cbs and wasn't blindly following Mourinho so if he took the decision on vetoing CBs and is getting applauded for it so give me one reason to not criticize him for sanctioning such terrible business in same summer ? Or is he getting applauded when he gets it right while throw the wrong deed on someone else ?

If Ed is that great and read it right with the CBs, Willian and Perisic why didn't he veto this deal as well ? Give me one reason.
 
If Ole gets the job I'd predict he will be gone during the summer, clearly doesn't trust him.
 
I honestly don't think he's as bad as he looks at first blush.

His passing range is brilliant, his touch is very good at times and his dribbling is equally impressive when he gets it right. The massive caveat to all of this is that he lacks the strength to do those things consistently well under physical pressure.

You could have laser guided passing and a touch like a magnet. But if you get knocked off balance easily, none of those things matter. That's where Fred needs to improve or he'll never be able to show his underlying quality in a big league.

Some core work is what he's crying out for. Get him on a deadlift program for a few months and then see what he can do with it on the pitch.
 
As infrequently as he plays, it's impossible to have a good sense of what type of player he can be and will be. Look at Lindelof flourishing the past month or two, almost 18 months after he arrived, despite looking like a flop prior. He has to get a consistent run in the team and adjust to the league/country before we'll know what he's capable of. Unfortunately for him, there's really no way into the side at the moment.
 
el3mel said:
Umm scouts ? And being scouted by City previously too ? He wasn't unknown.

It wasn't without Mourinho's consent, but it's obvious it wasn't his choice also. The most logical situation is that scouts suggested Fred on us and Mourinho said "ok, go for it". Not that he himself wanted him or not but it was a scouts suggestion and he agreed on it.

Again that was the same summer Ed vetoed Cbs and wasn't blindly following Mourinho so if he took the decision on vetoing CBs and is getting applauded for it so give me one reason to not criticize him for sanctioning such terrible business in same summer ? Or is he getting applauded when he gets it right while throw the wrong deed on someone else ?

If Ed is that great and read it right with the CBs, Willian and Perisic why didn't he veto this deal as well ? Give me one reason.
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Ed didn't veto the Perisic deal, he actually made bids which were knocked back by Inter. He also never vetoed the Willian deal because Chelsea wouldn't sell. Neither to us or Barcelona..
 
Adnan said:
Ed didn't veto the Perisic deal, he actually made bids which were knocked back by Inter. He also never vetoed the Willian deal because Chelsea wouldn't sell. Neither to us or Barcelona..
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He did made a decision that those players weren't worth the value asked for them and decided to not pay, similar to Toby to.

Ed proved several times he wasn't just following Mourinho blindly and decided when the player wasn't worth the price to back off.

So when we paid such ridiculous fee for Fred you can't but say Ed himself liked the signing and thought it was worth it so sanctioned the deal. It only works this way. He wasn't forced to follow Mourinho (if we assumed it was his target, I'm going on you with that despite thinking it was obvious scouts choices).

So logically enough if Ed is praised for not paying over odds for Perisic, Willian and Toby, he should be getting criticizing for sanctioning Fred's deal ? That's the only logical and reasonable thing I believe.
 
el3mel said:
He did made a decision that those players weren't worth the value asked for them and decided to not pay, similar to Toby to.

Ed proved several times he wasn't just following Mourinho blindly and decided when the player wasn't worth the price to back off.

So when we paid such ridiculous fee for Fred you can't but say Ed himself liked the signing and thought it was worth it so sanctioned the deal. It only works this way. He wasn't forced to follow Mourinho (if we assumed it was his target, I'm going on you with that despite thinking it was obvious scouts choices).

So logically enough if Ed is praised for not paying over odds for Perisic, Willian and Toby, he should be getting criticizing for sanctioning Fred's deal ? That's the only logical and reasonable thing I believe.
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A very reputable Journo like Jason Burt says all the signings made were Mourinho signings. Is he lying?
 
Adnan said:
A very reputable Journo like Jason Burt says all the signings made were Mourinho signings. Is he lying?
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Whether Mourinho chose him or not, Ed wasn't forced to pay for him and he proved that 3 times with Perisic, Willian and Toby that he wasn't following Mourinho blindly and decided when to pack off when he thought the targeted players weren't worth the value of money, so when he goes and accepts to pay 50m for Fred it means he himself also liked the signing and thought he was worth the value mentioned so sanctioned the deal, otherwise why didn't he do what he did with Perisic, Willian and Toby and decided to not pay over the odds because they weren't worth it ?
 
It really isn't unusual for a signing to have a forgettable first season then look much better in the second season, so I don't know what everyone's writing him off so early for.
 
Isotope said:
Ole preferred a 19 y.o. Dalot and 22 y.o. McTominay to kill off the game against Spurs. The message is as clear as watching on OLED Tv.
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He didn't travel to Dubai as his wife was expecting, so I wouldn't read much into Ole's decision not to involve Fred in this match.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
What makes him so good in your eyes? Personally i don't see it.
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Because the fundamentals of his game are really good. Skilful, creative and direct. very important assets in a big team especially when playing small teams.
 
el3mel said:
Whether Mourinho chose him or not, Ed wasn't forced to pay for him and he proved that 3 times with Perisic, Willian and Toby that he wasn't following Mourinho blindly and decided when to pack off when he thought the targeted players weren't worth the value of money, so when he goes and accepts to pay 50m for Fred it means he himself also liked the signing and thought he was worth the value mentioned so sanctioned the deal, otherwise why didn't he do what he did with Perisic, Willian and Toby and decided to not pay over the odds because they weren't worth it ?
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Woodward bought Fred because he was a Mourinho target. Confirmed by Ducker and Burt. Woodward backed him to the tune of £400m? And he failed miserably, our players didn't have the intensity he said..
 
Adnan said:
Woodward bought Fred because he was a Mourinho target. Confirmed by Ducker and Burt. Woodward backed him to the tune of £400m? And he failed miserably, our players didn't have the intensity he said..
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You're escaping from the question and main point, which I guess proves that you're out of ideas here. Fair enough then.
 
Wheato said:
Because we needed someone to Rhyme with "Manc born and bred"
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He's shit but he's already immortalised in song! Like Kleberson sneaking into the Anderson chant for the sake of a rhyming couplet.
 
Mourinho has no scouting network in Ukraine. There are only two signings scouted by Mourinho and they are Dalot and Lindelof because he has links in Portugal. Matic and Zlatan were former players and so didn't need scouting.

It seems a lot of people in a bid to deflect from the lack of scouting for the 1st team they pin it all on the manager. LVG saying he wants Muller does not mean it was his fault we didn't get him, he's a manager and will go with what he knows. If you want good recruitment you get your manager to identify qualities and your scouts to identify players.
 
el3mel said:
You're escaping from the question and main point, which I guess proves that you're out of ideas here. Fair enough then.
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I'm not avoiding anything. The bottom line is, that very reputable Journos are saying Mourinho wanted all the players that were signed. Unless you can provide something that contradicts the Journos in question, I will trust the information at hand.
 
Adnan said:
I'm not avoiding anything. The bottom line is, that very reputable Journos are saying Mourinho wanted all the players that were signed. Unless you can provide something that contradicts the Journos in question, I will trust the information at hand.
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Again that's not the main point. The main point Mourinho wanted them or not Ed wasn't forced to follow him blindly and he proved that on 3 occasions already so agreeing on this deal is on him then.

If Ed got him because he was a Mourinho target and paid a ridiculous fee for him why didn't he accept to pay 70m of Toby or Maguire or 50m for Perisic ?

Reason is he thought they weren't worh the value of money asked.

So when he goes on and pays 50m for Fred in the same period then that proves he also thought he was worth the value asked. Otherwise could he have done what he did with Perisic, Willian and Toby and decided he wasn't worth the value asked and pack off from the deal.

If he's going to be praised for not sanctioning Perisic and Toby deals because they were over the odds then he deserved to be criticized for sanctioning Fred's deal for over the odds price, otherwise it'll be a double standard.

Are you going to give a reasonable reason for this contradiction or you're going to repeat the 'Mouinho's target, 400m' thing again ?
 
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