They were aging and weren't going to lead us to glory, but we still dominated games and out shot our opponents. We were the ones taking 20+ shots, not the other way around.
Why did our football peak during lockdown?
- Thread starter Paolo Di Canio
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I was commenting on the initial lockdown really and the first 6 months or so.
2nd season was a different kettle of fish and wasn't peak in any way, shape or form. The warning signs were there for a long time.
Probably because we’re a team of mentality midgets
When are you imagining we tried to play tiki-taka like a Pep side?
Perhaps it was the lack of fans that helped the team to feel less pressure when playing at home. Aside from that I don't think there was anything special, the style wasn't very different from what Mourinho was doing.
Pretty much. The revisionism about that period is hilarious. We scored goals though, which we would be a really nice thing to be able to do these days.
Your never going to please everyone.
The daytrippers want a Ronaldo dribbling past 5 players and scoring a goal from 40 yards and Pogba holding off 3 players in the centre circle for a youtube clip - which is a dumb way to play football. Some people want counter attacking, direct football. Others wont be happy without midfield control and that tiki taka possession football you hate.
I think supporters need to go with the flow a bit. It wont always be to your taste but you have to judge it on its own merits - how well we're executing the various styles, how effective they are at that point in time with the rules and style of teams you'll be playing.
I would have said quick counter was a bit dead around that time because of how the stronger teams used professional fouls with impunity basically. Using it against teams that sat in and left no space was similarly a struggle. I think its well on its way to making a comeback at this point with so many teams going the other way though. We might have missed the boat a bit and are jumping off the counter train just as it makes its comeback.
Better manager and better players.
Baffling how we've spent £600m for the first XI we have now.
Baffling how we've spent £600m for the first XI we have now.
Nah some of our players were very fecking mediocre and Ole is overrated as a manager. He didn’t even win a trophy. It was individual brilliance, like it is now.
Our best football was January - March 2023.
I honestly agree. I’d say that the football we played for the month after the World Cup the season before last is the best we’ve played since Fergie left, and the only period in which we looked like a proper big team. The greater period between October 2022 and February 2023 - including great performances like those in the 2-0 win over Spurs and the the 3-0 win over Leicester - was honestly an apogee, culminating with us beating Barcelona 2-1 at Old Trafford after arguably dominating them in the 2-2 game at Camp Nou.
Ole overrated
Matic, Pogba, Martial and Greenwood were a level above the players we have in the same positions now. Simple as that really.
I mean yeah, they were on fire during that period. It was a perfect storm. And Solskjær did have us in what could be argued to be the closest to a title race since 2013. The periods between March 2019 and January 2020 and between September and November/December 2020, as well as of course the period between September and November 2021, were absolutely horrible. Bruno honestly saved Ole’s job, as we were absolutely horrible in his first full season until he arrived.Ole overrated
Matic, Pogba, Martial and Greenwood were a level above the players we have in the same positions now. Simple as that really.
We were relying on the likes of Dan James, Pereira and Lingard during the period pre Bruno (injuries to Pogba, Martial and Matic). Go check the line ups we were having to put out. And even then stats show we were nowhere near as bad as we are now.
With that logic, one could argue that we were bad under EtH last season because of how many injuries we had - although we did of course do badly even with a largely fit squad because of his tactics. I can definitely understand that nostalgia for Ole, as it was a period in which we a lot better than we were now. However, he needed to go because he was incapable of guiding us to a trophy. We should have sacked him after the 2021 Europa League final, in the same way that we should have sacked Mourinho after the 2018 FA Cup final, as those were their respective ceilings. I thought that EtH would be the one to finally guide us back to glory, but ultimately I was wrong, even though we’ve largely lucked our way to two trophies (which of course provided me with much joy).
The problem is we looked the same regardless of injuries and still do.
Ole had us punching at our weight, a top 4 squad finishing in the top 4. As soon as he no longer had us at that level after spending big money in 2021 (badly) he was (fairly) sacked. Now we're nowhere near that level.
Hmm, running hot that season...
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/elfmeterstatistik/verein/985/plus/0?reldata=&2020
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/elfmeterstatistik/verein/985/plus/0?reldata=&2020
Yeah. We need someone who can take us back to competing with the top. Ten Hag has ultimately been a failure. I had a dream this morning in which de Zerbi was our manager. Honestly Tuchel probably is the best candidate and probably the person with whom I’d like to replace ten Hag the most.
I really think no fans helped the team. With less pressure, they seemed to have performed better. Confidence was higher and they probably weren't afraid of taking more risky passes and plays. With all that, together they played better.
The results were better but I don't think the football was that much more amazing. I do think there was more players performing as opposed to maybe 1 player in a game is performing well now.
On one hand I understand it. On the other hand, players should be able to handle the pressure at United. Expectations are always going to be there.
The results were better but I don't think the football was that much more amazing. I do think there was more players performing as opposed to maybe 1 player in a game is performing well now.
On one hand I understand it. On the other hand, players should be able to handle the pressure at United. Expectations are always going to be there.
But that's what's actually killed us in the long term, being only good at a certain type of football that will rarely ever win you the league (Leicester the obvious exception). Every manager from Jose, Ole, and EtH had initial 'success' with pragmatic, counter attacking football in different variations; despite, what youtube clips might show, it was not always pleasing on the eye at all but it got results in getting top 4. The second we try to advance and become a better team we fail basically and eventually finish sixth place or lower. It's a crushing cycle.
Jose said at the beginning of his third season he wanted to evolve the quality of the football, and he wanted someone who could pass from the back. Ole tried moving the defensive line forward, bringing in a technical player (Sancho) and a finisher with elite mentality in Ronaldo in his third season to try and get us to take the next step, and EtH has committed to this suicide football because he wants us to go toe to toe in being aggressive with the best teams. It just fails everytime sadly.
I bet a really dull manager could easily get this squad at the moment to top 4 with football that Jose and Ole played. It won't win titles in the long run though.
I'd have chosen either of them two. Sounds like INEOS would have too but something changed.
Not sure I buy that myself. I think the team Solskjaer built just happened to peak during covid lockdowns.
Ronaldo happened.
Martial was healthy and happy. It's a shame many don't think he was ever good. A unique blend of speed, skill, strength and ability to link up.
Unfortunately he went the route of Saha who was even more talented.
Unfortunately he went the route of Saha who was even more talented.
No pressure from the fans.
If there was no fans right now United would be top of the league.
If there was no fans right now United would be top of the league.
Bingo.
The Sevilla EL Semi Final and 3-1 loss to Chelsea in the FA Cup Semi Final proved this.
We were flying in the league and EL scoring loads of goals and getting by off pure attacking vibes in empty stadiums. Once the pressure was on for the players and Ole actually needed a tactical setup, both players and manager got exposed.
The following season I also believe we had one of the best away records and that was so obviously due to no fans/lower capacity stadiums.
The football we played during lockdowns was brilliant but it was clearly due to the circumstances in my opinion.
Funnily, I think that Ole gameplay would have even challenged for the league if he had Ugarte added. Ugarte was exactly what Ole needed.
Martial was the focal point.
Even last season’s most dominant performance (versus Palace at Old Trafford) had Martial as CF.
They're nervous and don't like being watched live.
The last time we were enjoyable to watch was under Ole, whether it was down to the players he had (Greenwood, Martial, Rashford, Cavani, Pogba) or him releasing the shackles, or less pressure during the lockdown.
We have only seen a few months of good style of play under Ten Hag. The quality of our central midfield and attack has waned somehow, even if we have quite a few stars in the making for the future
We have only seen a few months of good style of play under Ten Hag. The quality of our central midfield and attack has waned somehow, even if we have quite a few stars in the making for the future
an Ugarte instead of Ronaldo would have been very interesting
Quite simple. The players seems to have a mentality problem when playing for this club. No fans means less pressure. They can make mistakes without anyone getting on their backs.
This is nonsense. Pogba played for years and apart from the odd moment was rubbish. Martial never ever reached his potential. Matic had one good season for us.Ole overrated
Matic, Pogba, Martial and Greenwood were a level above the players we have in the same positions now. Simple as that really.
One of the reasons we did well during covid was because all the teams played like training matches. This would have suited Pogba and co.. effort was never his strongpoint.
Anthony gets a lot of stick but I’d argue Pogba was our worst signing ever. Payed a world record fee for someone we let go for nothing and he probably had 5 good games where he justified his fee.
I don't remember the lack of fans working too brilliantly for us in that 6-1 home defeat v spurs of all people.
When you look back at the last 5 years, it's worrying how many thrashings we've taken.
When you look back at the last 5 years, it's worrying how many thrashings we've taken.
That's nonsense. Pogba had quite a lot of good moments and performances over his long time here. Not matching the expectations but the huge transfers often don't.
Antony has come in for a fee not a lot lower and has barely done anything here. He now can't get in over 2 promising kids and a mysteriously terrible Rashy.
He's by far the worst money pro rata we've ever had, even against huge competition.
It wasn't really.
It just felt better because we had something else to be more bitter and miserable about and football was the only thing to look forward to.
It just felt better because we had something else to be more bitter and miserable about and football was the only thing to look forward to.
We probably had the best squad we’ve had post Fergie during that feeling. Then the window happened, Greenwood happened, Martial and Pogba fell apart and all the hope of that period evaporated.
Absolute nonsense.
I reckon it was almost entirely down to player quality coalescing in certain positions enabling a certain type of football, rather than any psychological/pressure factor.
That is an interesting topic.
I think we had a really nice balanced team back there, we've been front-heavy (Martial, Rashford, Greenwood + Bruno) and there was so much talent between those 4 that even without some sophisticated coaching, we were able to score goals. Because of that front 4 Ole set up conservative midfield focused on doing the monkey work (McFred) and just keeping it simple on the ball. That didn't look nice but was the right thing to do, and was also the reason it never really worked with Pogba, this setup was demanding too much off the ball dyscipline and effort from him (and Matic). The defence was probably our weakest point but we did alright overall.
Front 4 was heavy but nicely balanced and that was mostly down to Martial, he was great for a short period of time when fit and bothered. Such a shame this one also didn't work out.
I do think we peaked against Barca in Europa League, and up to the Carabao Cup final. We played Casemiro-Fred midfield, we had Martinez/Shaw to progress the ball, and Rashford up front. Unfortunately, ETH didn't like having actual midfielders in there and went for 1 man midfield in his second season and things felt apart.
I think we had a really nice balanced team back there, we've been front-heavy (Martial, Rashford, Greenwood + Bruno) and there was so much talent between those 4 that even without some sophisticated coaching, we were able to score goals. Because of that front 4 Ole set up conservative midfield focused on doing the monkey work (McFred) and just keeping it simple on the ball. That didn't look nice but was the right thing to do, and was also the reason it never really worked with Pogba, this setup was demanding too much off the ball dyscipline and effort from him (and Matic). The defence was probably our weakest point but we did alright overall.
Front 4 was heavy but nicely balanced and that was mostly down to Martial, he was great for a short period of time when fit and bothered. Such a shame this one also didn't work out.
I do think we peaked against Barca in Europa League, and up to the Carabao Cup final. We played Casemiro-Fred midfield, we had Martinez/Shaw to progress the ball, and Rashford up front. Unfortunately, ETH didn't like having actual midfielders in there and went for 1 man midfield in his second season and things felt apart.