Why did Ibrahimovic never win the CL?

Giggsy13 said:
It’s hard to win when you’re always changing clubs. Moving to Barca from Inter was a poor choice in hindsight but understandable when they were a major force in Europe but he missed out on the Inter treble.
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The Inter treble doesn't happen without his sale
 
Wasting his peak years at PSG was a bad move, he should have gone to Juve or Bayern.
 
Grande said:
Apart from Messi, nobody is the unique factor. Nor in the champions league. If you read the whole post, tje point here is exactly that if you’re going to analyse team results in the CL and pin it on one single player, you certainly have to do it in the legue as well. Or in neither. You can’t do one and not the other, as is the inpression made in the OP of this thread.

If a player is a key player in 13 league championships, he is definitely part of doing something right.
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You can and should do it for the league, but the larger squad and financial inbalances are even more relevant for leagues than CL.
Zlatan is a very good player whose career happened to align really well with moments of domestic domination for certain clubs due to reasons beyond his control (Calciopoli, PSG purchase).
 
His teams just fell short. Only one wins it every year. You need some luck to find yourself on that team.

Maradona, Totti, Matthäus, Cantona, Aguero and many others never won it (or the equivalent) either.
 
Gordon S said:
He was incredible at times in the league campaigns but was for some reason, more often than not, a shadow of his usual self when he played in the knockout stages in the CL. Don`t know if the occasion got to him for some reason.
Was a force of nature for a couple of years in Italy.
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As a contrast to that, he was usually most decisive for the NT in key tournament games.
 
He was never that good in the UCL. His knockout record is poor. He misses so many chances, if anyone remembers Milan beating Arsenal 4-0, the second leg when Zlatan could have put it to bed, he kept constantly scuffing it. Almost as if had a mental block.

His best chance was that Barcelona team. A Bojan disallowed goal in the final minute away from a final.
 
Ekeke said:
1 thing he unquestionably did right was make the right transfers to 90% of the time go to the team that dominates the league he joined. Part of the reason he could do that was reputation and because he'd already won something before.

With his teams wrapping up so many domestic seasons, their lack of success in the champions league is a big stand out. Less weak teams to play against, more teams looking to win matches against the other best sides. His teams came up short.
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Yes. Very perceptive of him to move to Juventus, to Inter and (via Barca) to Milan exactly when the power shifted between them. And equally you could say he had a bad nose for which teams would go on to win the CL, leaving Inter and Barca the season before both won the CL.

With none of his teams being in the absolute top class of CL winners, wrapping up so many league titles with them stands out as well. As most players never win a CL, what stands out most is the combination with winning 13 leagues and 34 trophies (2 deducted). I guess just the latter stands out the most, I don’t know how many players you find with a similar trophy haul in the big leagues?
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
You can and should do it for the league, but the larger squad and financial inbalances are even more relevant for leagues than CL.
Zlatan is a very good player whose career happened to align really well with moments of domestic domination for certain clubs due to reasons beyond his control (Calciopoli, PSG purchase).
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Yea. Not to mention that so many of the clubs who could pick from the highest shelf, all chose Zlatan when looking for a player to build a superstar attack around.

I think it’s fair to say that the main reason some players win more trophies than others is to a very little degree that they haul these clubs to the top by their individual brilliance, but rather that they perform so well in their positions that the richest clubs buy them, pick them and stick to them ahead of most other players in the world in that position.
 
Zlatan didn't win it, Original Ronaldo didn't win it. It happens. Alot of luck involved in winning the CL. Agree with others shouldnt have gone to PSG for all those years.
 
dinostar77 said:
Zlatan didn't win it, Original Ronaldo didn't win it. It happens. Alot of luck involved in winning the CL. Agree with others shouldnt have gone to PSG for all those years.
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Original Ronaldo struggled with injuries and didn't have Zlatan's longevity. I can somewhat understand that.
 
His career choices makes you wonder if he just didn't fancy playing in the very elite environement where the pressure is you have to win the CL. Except his one year at Barcelona, he never played for a club at a time when they were favorites to go all the way in the CL. Of course it could be that he just living in Italy and France.

There are great players that never won the CL like Ronaldo but the thing with Zlatan is he never had those world class moments that have a global audience. That would be international tournaments (of course that's not his fault), big CL games or to an extent playing in the best league in the world at the time like those huge Classicos in the '10s or playing for the one of the great English clubs at the end of the '00s. Not winning the CL could be seen as just bad luck if he managed to stand out somewhere that isn't the relatively weaker Serie A or Ligue 1.
 
Nole said:
I never understand why Real Madrid didn't attempt to sign him. He was made for Real Madrid.
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No one will trade workaholic and selfless Benzema for egotistical and immobile Zlatan

Him and Ronaldo will have a physical fight on the field
 
dinostar77 said:
Zlatan didn't win it, Original Ronaldo didn't win it. It happens. Alot of luck involved in winning the CL. Agree with others shouldnt have gone to PSG for all those years.
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Original Ronaldo played at a time when 1 team qualified for the CL and he was done by age 26 while Zlatan played for like 15yrs more
 
Right place wrong time. He could have won with Juve and especially Inter and Barca if he stayed/transferred at the right time
 
An Ex United player described Berbatov as a great striker doing things that other strikers couldn't do more than just being an all rounded striker.

I wonder if its the same with Ibrahimovic.

Playing with Ibrahimovic made all the game directly having to go straight to him and was a bit more straightforward to defend against i think especially at the time of inverted forwards & False 9's coming in as the main tactic for alot of teams after Pep's Barcelona team - compare Zlatan at Barcelona vs Messi at Barcelona - Barcelona were a better team with Messi than making them one dimensional with Zlatan.

Now however, tactics seems to have switched and inverted forwards maybe less useful (with inverted fullbacks etc) than using a straight direct forward as shown by Haaland at City.

He had no sign for loyalty at a club too and moved around for money and then never won the UCL.

Why i really admire CR7's achievements is because the closest player to do what CR7 did was Ibrahimovic - showing similair body shape and physicality needed to dominate every league he played in when playing in every top league available. However, CR7 was just a different menace in the CL's for 2 of those clubs on top winning 5CL titles.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
You can and should do it for the league, but the larger squad and financial inbalances are even more relevant for leagues than CL.
Zlatan is a very good player whose career happened to align really well with moments of domestic domination for certain clubs due to reasons beyond his control (Calciopoli, PSG purchase).
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Juventus had finished 3rd several lightyears from Milan when he signed for them. He went tp Inter post-calciopoli with a title basically won in court as it removed all potential rivals in year 1, but years 2 and 3 they won *because* of him. Inter don't win in 08 and 09 without Zlatan. Milan were also lightyears away from Inter when he signed for them, and he promptly won them the league. PSG lost the title in the years immediately before and after him

Zlatan Ibrahimovic was the most dominant force in Serie A seen in 30 years. Better than Pirlo, better than Totti, Vieri, Del Piero, Baggio, Zidane, Kaka, Shevchenko, Batistuta, Nedved, even Ronaldo(though in this case it was corruption and injuries. Ronaldo's 97/98 stands out as the best player in serie A since Maradona, nobody been as good since either, not even Ibra) you have to go back to Marco fecking Van Basten to see something similar in Italy
 
DontBeMeanToBeRuud said:
An Ex United player described Berbatov as a great striker doing things that other strikers couldn't do more than just being an all rounded striker.

I wonder if its the same with Ibrahimovic.

Playing with Ibrahimovic made all the game directly having to go straight to him and was a bit more straightforward to defend against i think especially at the time of inverted forwards & False 9's coming in as the main tactic for alot of teams after Pep's Barcelona team - compare Zlatan at Barcelona vs Messi at Barcelona - Barcelona were a better team with Messi than making them one dimensional with Zlatan.

Now however, tactics seems to have switched and inverted forwards maybe less useful (with inverted fullbacks etc) than using a straight direct forward as shown by Haaland at City.

He had no sign for loyalty at a club too and moved around for money and then never won the UCL.

Why i really admire CR7's achievements is because the closest player to do what CR7 did was Ibrahimovic - showing similair body shape and physicality needed to dominate every league he played in when playing in every top league available. However, CR7 was just a different menace in the CL's for 2 of those clubs on top winning 5CL titles.
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Dominate every league?


When did that happen?


Zlatan never dominated the La Liga or the Premier League. He was a flop transfer for Barcelona and was decent for his age at United while missing loads of chances. His best season in the Prem was 17 goals. Strikers like Danny Ings have had similar/better seasons. How's that dominating?


He only dominated Serie A and a piss poor French League which wasn't even top 5 in Europe at the time. Serie A's pace and style suited him very well.


The excuses and exaggerations made for him is weird.
 
JPRouve said:
His teams weren't bad and he wasn't bad. But there is one thing about him, at his prime he was the kind of player that would cannibalize his own team offense, everything revolved around him and only him which is not a good recipe at the highest level of CL Football, top teams have top defensive players and they can generally neutralize or reduce the efficiency of a single player.

But in general winning the CL isn't a given and it's not easy, you need to have everything going your way.
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This is the key point, he’s a player who dominates the entire set-up due to his ability, there is no room for another, but there were other players who were slightly better at doing this hardest thing of all, and therefore at slightly better teams, who then won the CL. The collective effort of Inter wouldn’t have worked with a Zlatan there either. He’s still been an utterly transformative player at club/league level.
 
giorno said:
Juventus had finished 3rd several lightyears from Milan when he signed for them. He went tp Inter post-calciopoli with a title basically won in court as it removed all potential rivals in year 1, but years 2 and 3 they won *because* of him. Inter don't win in 08 and 09 without Zlatan. Milan were also lightyears away from Inter when he signed for them, and he promptly won them the league. PSG lost the title in the years immediately before and after him
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Inter won the treble the season after he left. PSG has a track record of winning 3-4 titles and then losing the next one, it's unrelated to Zlatan. They didn't win the year before him b/c that was the first year under new ownership; they were still just 3 points away. And then of course there's Barcelona who were winning before and after.

Juve barely counts due to illegality, leaving Milan.
 
Grande said:
With none of his teams being in the absolute top class of CL winners, wrapping up so many league titles with them stands out as well. As most players never win a CL, what stands out most is the combination with winning 13 leagues and 34 trophies (2 deducted). I guess just the latter stands out the most, I don’t know how many players you find with a similar trophy haul in the big leagues?
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Guys who played for Bayern probably.
 
VorZakone said:
Original Ronaldo struggled with injuries and didn't have Zlatan's longevity. I can somewhat understand that.
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He still had 10 years at the top, including 5 years at Real Madrid. You do that nowadays and you’re gonna pick up 2 or 3 medals without even trying!

It is a bit easier in this current era however since what, 4 teams from the better leagues qualify? Back in the 90s R9 was playing in the UEFA cup due to the format of European football.
 
TenonTen said:
Dominate every league?


When did that happen?


Zlatan never dominated the La Liga or the Premier League. He was a flop transfer for Barcelona and was decent for his age at United while missing loads of chances. His best season in the Prem was 17 goals. Strikers like Danny Ings have had similar/better seasons. How's that dominating?


He only dominated Serie A and a piss poor French League which wasn't even top 5 in Europe at the time. Serie A's pace and style suited him very well.


The excuses and exaggerations made for him is weird.
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22 goals & 13 assists in 46 appearences
Barcelona
29 goals & 10 assists in 53 appearences for United
Serie A, Ligue 1 and ajax Stats i cant even bother to talk about.

I wouldnt call him a flop, just a dissapointment in comparison to his ability at some of the other leagues.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Guys who played for Bayern probably.
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Yea. How many league titles does Thomas Müller have? That must be pretty impressive, even if he only has a measly couple of CL trophies to go with his one -1- WC title. :P

Pre-edit: Heck, I’ll check

Müller has 12 league titles to his belt, 34 team trophies in total when including super cups and the like.

Ryan Giggs has 13 leagues. Our man. 35 in total, including 2 CL. But only Müller is Weltkampioen.

Zlatan would have 14 but for Juventus’ fraud (12 deemed legit), 34 in total. I bet he would swap tjose calciopoli buckets with a WC and a CL win if he could …
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Inter won the treble the season after he left. PSG has a track record of winning 3-4 titles and then losing the next one, it's unrelated to Zlatan. They didn't win the year before him b/c that was the first year under new ownership; they were still just 3 points away. And then of course there's Barcelona who were winning before and after
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Inter changed half their team thanks to the money from his sale, and sure PSG with all that money was always going to dominate. It is still a fact that they didn't win before him, signed him, won 4 in a row, he left and they lost again. They won again after signing Neymar and Mbappé

Inter though are a good answer to this thread. Look at the make up of the Inter squads that won with Ibra, then look at the composition of the team that did the treble. Ibra was so dominant in the league his teams(and clubs) ended up sitting on their haunches because "Ibra's gonna take care of everything" anyways. Juventus suffered a bit from this too when they signed Cristiano
 
Because contrary to popular belief, he was a terrible finisher. He missed big chances and he missed boatloads while at Utd too. (Regardless of how little we created)

He flopped at Barca and was one of the most expensive mistakes by Pep. He regularly failed in CL must win games (I remember him missing chances against Arsenal by trying to lob the keeper).

He only enjoyed in a piss poor French league but even there, him and Cavani both missed so many chances - Darwin Nunez would have been more prolific in that PSG team.

The revisionism with Zlatan is hilarious. He has worked very hard on his persona and making himself larger than what he was.
He was a very good player who scored outrageous goals but was nowhere near clinical enough - like Henry or even Etoo.
 
Bizarre question. He was either not on a good enough team, or on a team that didn't perform better than the opposition on the night. There's no larger pattern to be found here. This isn't an individual sport.
 
Today culture is all about numbers and titles count. The greatness of a player talent used to go beyond that. Mágico Gonzalez is seen as an extremely talented player despite never playing for a top club.
 
André Dominguez said:
Today culture is all about numbers and titles count. The greatness of a player talent used to go beyond that. Mágico Gonzalez is seen as an extremely talented player despite never playing for a top club.
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I think Ibrahimovic is generally well-regarded and seen as a very talented player.

To the extent there is an issue it's because of the incredibly lame "Chuck Norris facts" stuff he's been doing for the last decade.
 
Mixture of bad luck and failure to create your own luck.

The times where the opportunity was there, he failed to rise above the rest to make a difference. I don't think he was necessarily poor (except for barca against Inter where he was massively disappointing), just not exceptional either and his teammates were looking to him to make the difference.
 
Two reasons:
1. His era was during the same era as Messi and CRonaldo.
2. He never turned up during the big CL games, or when it really mattered during the CL run.
 
statpadder said:
Because contrary to popular belief, he was a terrible finisher. He missed big chances and he missed boatloads while at Utd too. (Regardless of how little we created)

He flopped at Barca and was one of the most expensive mistakes by Pep. He regularly failed in CL must win games (I remember him missing chances against Arsenal by trying to lob the keeper).
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Calling a player with over 550 career goals a "Terrible finisher" doesn't really deserve an answer.

You are the one doing the revisionism... He scored 2 goals at the Emirates as Barcelona basically wrapped up the qualification there in the first leg.... When Barcelona met Arsenal again a year later (this time without him) they lost the game at the Emirates and needed a vert favorable referring to turn it around in the second leg (RvP send off for not hearing a false offside whistle). He scored and created goals in most of those important games. He did for PSG against Barcelona in 2013, but Barcelona qualified on away goals... I remember Zlatan back in 2005 creating the open goal for Trezeguet, helping Juventus Knock Real Madrid out.

But of course he had his bad days as well...
 
A very good player who made a legend of being better than he really was.

He didn’t win it because of his bad choices, impatience and bad luck.

His top years were 2008-2014. While at Inter, he had a good team but was not ready to go for CL. He then changed to Barça and Inter won. He blamed everything on Guardiola and although the baldy is not a saint of my devotion, I think Guardiola made the right call by letting him go because Zlatan would never adapt to his style.

Then the next year he goes to Milan when Serie A was downhill, it was obvious he was never gonna get a chance there. While at PSG, maybe he could have a chance, but it was a squad still developing.Then goes to United and the rest of his career he would not get any other chance.

I think the guy was great, but the character got the best of him. Maybe had he had a better temper and wait either at Barca or Inter, he would at least won it once.
 
During his time at Juventus, he was still young and not fully developed both physically and mentally, including his finishing skills. Capello taught him many things, helping him grow in every aspect. The Juventus team under Capello was more suited to playing in the league system rather than in Europe—they were hard to beat and tough, but lacked creativity on the European stage.

At Inter, I can confidently say that he was the hero and the key figure in helping Inter win the league. Although Inter was strong at that time, there were even stronger teams like Ferguson's United or Barcelona. Additionally, during his time at Inter, I think he missed many easy tap-in opportunities.

At Barcelona, as we all know, he wanted to be the centerpiece of the attacking unit but couldn’t because Messi was there. He had to adapt to Messi and Pep's plan. He did it, but not well enough, leading to the legendary clash with Pep.

At Milan, he was truly the center of the attack, but his supporting cast wasn’t at a level to compete for the Champions League( at least in the semis anymore). Many players were declining due to age—everyone knows who they are. In the 2010/2011 Serie A season, Ibra played a pivotal role for AC Milan, contributing significantly to their success in clinching the league title.

From 2012 to 2016 at Paris, there were many strong teams like Bayern, Juventus, Barcelona, and Madrid. But he almost did it in 2016; if they hadn’t lost to City, I think he might have achieved it.

Ibra's main drawback is that he needs to be the focal point of the attack to bring out the best in him. He can be marked out of the game by truly great defenders and often fails to perform in crucial matches, especially in the UCL. The media and many others have criticized him for this. Additionally, his finishing in many games often misses easy chances.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I think Ibrahimovic is generally well-regarded and seen as a very talented player.

To the extent there is an issue it's because of the incredibly lame "Chuck Norris facts" stuff he's been doing for the last decade.
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I think the Chuck Norris facts started on the MLS. His interviews became quite iconic there. Pretty sure some MLS team would still offer him a wage per game contract type if he wanted.
 
I think he's a good example of the diminishing returns of being a big unit of a man as an attacker and creative player. He was uncommonly agile for size, especially during the Ajax/Juventus years, which was part of what made him great to watch, yet the still relative slowness and lack of short-distance speed/acceleration clearly held him back from being even better, and often resulted in him becoming a "moments" player with not much margin for error to comfortably execute in the toughest games.
 
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