Why are we technically so poor?

[AltiUn]

Ugarte is a runner and ball winner, Rashford was developed and played because of his speed, De Ligt was signed because of more legs than Maguire, Dalot was signed as a youngster because he was making suporting runs from fullback as a young player not because he's a technical player

Mount was signed for workrate and running, Hojlund was a young striker who scored a few goals and has pace and a bit of power

Who did we sign for their close control and technique first at foremost? There are very few. We valued pace and running over that

You actually have no idea about any of that though, it's just pure speculation on your part.

 

[Carl]

You actually have no idea about any of that though, it's just pure speculation on your part.

Which bit is wrong?

If any of those listed were signed for their technical ability on the ball then we have pretty large failings in scouting.

Not dissing the players btw. But it's not what any of them are known for.

 

[TheReligion]

We have quite a few good, technical players.

Mainoo, Mazraoui, Martinez, Amad, Shaw spring to mind immediately. Our under 18s and youth set up is also full of them.

The issue is fitting the players together collectively as a team.

 

[Hammondo]

So if I say Amad is good technically that means my standards for technical ability is low, ok got it

He's one of our most technical players, but you listed a lot of players, most very average technically.

 

[Hammondo]

That's not really true.

If you watch back games under SAF, the one thing that always stands out to me is how every player is comfortable playing 1, 2 & 3 touch football. He didn't keep players who couldn't do the basics to a high standard consistently.

This Utd squad is just littered with players who just can't do the simple things consistently to a high standard. Every player can control and pass a ball, but it's down to bad habits and them getting away with it for too long. First touch is the wrong way, loose first time passes, poorly weighted passing, over hit crosses, passes behind players, too many touches etc.
As a group they just seem to accept this stuff, that's why I was happy to see Ruben say he was ok with the players arguing over passes after the game.

"comfortable playing 1, 2 & 3 touch football" really doesn't mean much.

 

[Oranges038]

"comfortable playing 1, 2 & 3 touch football" really doesn't mean much.

It does when it's being done at pace, which is what those Utd teams did. They could switch between fast play, quick counters and controlled tempo, but all the time were still able to nail the basics or passing and control. Watch Wenger's Arsenal or Pep's teams (maybe not right now), every player pass & control is bang on, passes played to the right side with the right weight etc. All makes it easier to play 1&2 touches.

How many in this current squad can do it and maintain those levels when they need to up the tempo?

 

[Hammondo]

We have quite a few good, technical players.

Mainoo, Mazraoui, Martinez, Amad, Shaw spring to mind immediately. Our under 18s and youth set up is also full of them.

The issue is fitting the players together collectively as a team.

Shaw and Martinez are decent, they should be the minimum.

 

[Hammondo]

It does when it's being done at pace, which is what those Utd teams did. They could switch between fast play, quick counters and controlled tempo, but all the time were still able to nail the basics or passing and control. Watch Wenger's Arsenal or Pep's teams (maybe not right now), every player pass & control is bang on, passes played to the right side with the right weight etc. All makes it easier to play 1&2 touches.

How many in this current squad can do it and maintain those levels when they need to up the tempo?

Quite a few. For us that is very high technique, and obviously we were good technically, but its not amazing.

 

[noodlehair]

This comes up fairly regularly but when I watch other teams the passing or technical side really isn't much better.

I think it's just the way football has gone where attributes like speed, fitness and physicality have become more prominent (all things we are noticeably worse at that other teams), so you don't always get time to be technical on the ball unless you're exceptionally good.

You only really see teams technically dominate when an opponent sits back or has already been worn down.

 

[Hammondo]

This comes up fairly regularly but when I watch other teams the passing or technical side really isn't much better.

I think it's just the way football has gone where attributes like speed, fitness and physicality have become more prominent (all things we are noticeably worse at that other teams), so you don't always get time to be technical on the ball unless you're exceptionally good.

You only really see teams technically dominate when an opponent sits back or has already been worn down.

So what teams in the PL would you compare us to?

 

[noodlehair]

So what teams in the PL would you compare us to?

Honestly I think we're about where we belong in the table. Take your pick of anyone between us and about 6th.

I think we have better technical players than a lot of the mid table teams in that bracket, but our midfield and forwards are far less aggressive/strong and we also can't match the energy levels of almost every opponent we play. When we do we we're completely knackered by the hour mark.

I think we're just massively stuck in the past as a club. We rarely get technically played off the park. Usually we're pressed into submission and start panicking on the ball, or the opposition have a couple of quick/strong players who just bulldoze through us. So even poor technical sides can look like they're hammering us at times.

Doesn't help that tactical discipline basically died a death under ETH but that is one area Anorim could potentially improve in the short term (and I think has already started to)

 

[Oranges038]

Quite a few. For us that is very high technique, and obviously we were good technically, but its not amazing.

Which players is this squad can do it and keep their passing and control levels high when the speed of play is upped and requires fast 1 & 2 touch play?

 

[Hammondo]

Which players is this squad can do it and keep their passing and control levels high when the speed of play is upped and requires fast 1 & 2 touch play?

I can think of 2, mainoo and amad. Maybe Shaw (who is always injured).

 

[Hammondo]

Honestly I think we're about where we belong in the table. Take your pick of anyone between us and about 6th.

I think we have better technical players than a lot of the mid table teams in that bracket, but our midfield and forwards are far less aggressive/strong and we also can't match the energy levels of almost every opponent we play. When we do we we're completely knackered by the hour mark.

I think we're just massively stuck in the past as a club. We rarely get technically played off the park. Usually we're pressed into submission and start panicking on the ball, or the opposition have a couple of quick/strong players who just bulldoze through us. So even poor technical sides can look like they're hammering us at times.

Doesn't help that tactical discipline basically died a death under ETH but that is one area Anorim could potentially improve in the short term (and I think has already started to)

I would argue this. I agree that our most technical players are better than players in teams below the top 6, but I would say we have players who are weaker in technical ability than you see in some of those teams. We have players who ruin our play consistently, that simply wouldn't get into some of these teams due to their technical ability.

 

[Oranges038]

I can think of 2, mainoo and amad. Maybe Shaw (who is always injured).

2 out of the whole squad isn't much.

 

[noodlehair]

I would argue this. I agree that our most technical players are better than players in teams below the top 6, but I would say we have players who are weaker in technical ability than you see in some of those teams. We have players who ruin our play consistently, that simply wouldn't get into some of these teams due to their technical ability.

I think you're talking about the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool then sure.

Most of the rest I think have players who can be equally frustrating. It's just not as noticeable when you aren't personally infuriated every time they lose the ball.

Although tbf I don't completely disagree. I think we have weak links who we persist with where other teams would replace them or sign someone else. I'm just not sure it's purely an issue of technical ability.

E.g. I'd have Dalot near top of that list and I think he's technically fine, just very easy to bully and (on the pitch at least) dumb as a bag of spanners. He is very capable of controlling an awkward ball, working his way out if a tight spot, and playing an accurate 50 yard pass...it's just that he'll do that midway in the opposition half then play the pass 50 yards back to a centreback who has an opposition forward standing 2 yards from them.

 

[Ekeke]

You might have a point only for the fact that we don't have a lot of running or pace in the squad either! So we've somehow managed to recruit a bunch of players, at an astronomical cost, who are poor both athletically and technically!

Our recruitment policy is going to be studied for decades to come.

For the transfered players -
You're basing it on what happened after the transfers.

My point is that before they came this is what we targetted them for. They did it at their previous clubs which is why we wanted them but now, in our team which is setup differently the same players arent doing what they once did... For some anyway. I feel like Ugarte is doing it but havent seen any stats one way or the other about running stats, but I will point out that a month or so ago Mainoo had our highest distance covered stat while people on here complain about his running.

For Rashford who was developed... I mean its obvious that pace, running and goalscoring were what was concentrated on. It certainly wasnt tiki taka

 

[Hammondo]

2 out of the whole squad isn't much.

It is terrible, we are poor technically and we have held onto players lacking in technical ability.

 

[Hammondo]

I think you're talking about the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool then sure.

Most of the rest I think have players who can be equally frustrating. It's just not as noticeable when you aren't personally infuriated every time they lose the ball.

Although tbf I don't completely disagree. I think we have weak links who we persist with where other teams would replace them or sign someone else. I'm just not sure it's purely an issue of technical ability.

E.g. I'd have Dalot near top of that list and I think he's technically fine, just very easy to bully and (on the pitch at least) dumb as a bag of spanners. He is very capable of controlling an awkward ball, working his way out if a tight spot, and playing an accurate 50 yard pass...it's just that he'll do that midway in the opposition half then play the pass 50 yards back to a centreback who has an opposition forward standing 2 yards from them.

I am talking about most of the league.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

He's one of our most technical players, but you listed a lot of players, most very average technically.

Average is not bad though is it?

I said they are not elite, they range from very good (Amad, Maz, Mainoo, Martinez, Bruno) to good (Zirkzee, Mount, Cas, Ugarte) to average (Dalot, De Ligt, etc...), and I admit we have poor ones like Rashford or Hojlund (Hojlund can score goals but he needs to improve his general play massively), but most of the squad are either average to above average to very good.

Stringing passes together and executing patterns of play doesn't require elite level, it requires averge to good level of technical ability on the ball and you don't need to have an Xavi or an Iniesta or a KdB to do all that, and as many posters alluded to, the issue they lack work rate, focus and determination, oppo mid table teams outplay us not because they are superior technically but because they perform better as a team.

 

[Hammondo]

Zirkzee, Mount, Cas, Ugarte are not good technically. Martinez, Bruno and not very good technically.

Average is poor for a team who wants to win big trophies.

 

[Lentwood]

We're not technically poor, but we're not at the level required to break down low blocks.

The more a team can play on the counter / in a low block, the less they have to worry about technical qualities and the more they can focus on physical qualities.

A team who come against opponents who are happy to take a point, sit deep and counter must be superb at handling the ball and moving it quickly...and we are not

 

[AltiUn]

Which bit is wrong?

If any of those listed were signed for their technical ability on the ball then we have pretty large failings in scouting.

Not dissing the players btw. But it's not what any of them are known for.

Because he's just guessed, none of us have a clue why any of them were signed or why they were promoted.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

I would say confidence and fitness. We’ve seen all of these players, even Antony, pull of moments of technical skill. It’s doing it consistently that they struggle.

They lack confidence to play the risky pass at times, and are then not sharp enough with the simple passes. Amorim alluded to this in a recent press conference I believe too. Improving fitness levels should help sharpness which in turn should help improve confidence.

Obviously some players are more developed than others in certain techniques, first touch, dribbling and pass variety and success rate but I’d say we have players who have these attributes when on form.

 

[Strachan8]

I watch a lot of Premier League games, as we all do and I've noticed we are so poor technically in comparison to most teams.

Many of our players cannot lay the ball off correctly, never make a pass with the right weight and just lack football intelligence.

Is this all down to recruiting poor quality players or is there more to it than this?

Indeed. Somehow we have all too many technically poor players who also lack the necessary athleticism and/or physicality. Notable how much physical contact the referee allowed in the Forest v Villa match today. Not good for Utd’s current squad if this is to be the norm.

 

[Jesper Olsen’s hair]

Amad is not technically poor !

He’s a class act that boy

 

[Bebe]

Doesn't help that tactical discipline basically died a death under ETH but that is one area Anorim could potentially improve in the short term (and I think has already started to)

I think today evidenced some of that improvement in tactical discipline.

 

[jellyfrost]

I watch a lot of Premier League games, as we all do and I've noticed we are so poor technically in comparison to most teams.

Many of our players cannot lay the ball off correctly, never make a pass with the right weight and just lack football intelligence.

Is this all down to recruiting poor quality players or is there more to it than this?

Tonight who cares! Not only did we beat em fair n square but we did PSG a favour,their preparing peps contract as we speak for when he walks like he.did at barca and bayern,.going gets tough he goes to whoever got the biggest transfer budget,we all know utd short comings but most importantly Ruben does,and the way he dealt with rashford n garnacho today shows that.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Looked pretty good today technically I'd say.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Looked pretty good today technically I'd say.

Yup.

In an individual level, the players technical ability ranges from excellent like Amad or Maz or Martinez or Mainoo and even Bruno, to very good like Zirkzee, Mount, Ugarte, Onana, Cas, Maguire and De Ligt, to average like Dalot or Antony, guys like Eriksen or Evans are actually excellent technically they just don't have the legs to hack it in PL games, our worst offenders are Hojlund, Garna and Rashford.

Our main problem is that the teams is poor collectively and I said that in an earlier exchange with another poster, especially under Ten Hag this season and last season, the team was so poor in many areas and very low on confidence that they made so many mistakes and did everything poorly, poor workerate, poor movements, poor positioning, no fight or desire, all that made them struggle to keep hold of the ball and they regularly messed up simple passes.

Under Amorim now, I do see a better setup but also slight improvements in work rate, movements and they are trying harder, last night performance wasn't top tier, but it's far better than how they played this season under the previous regime, with better and solid basics, the technical quality shows