says a person then rewritting history and pretending Solksjaer took over a team that was competing for second by the time Mourinho left and dumped it in 7th......
Who was worse - Rangnick or Ole?
- Thread starter PoTMS
- Start date
And we didn’t even finish 7th that year so even more rewriting of history
Agree things looked good under Ole early on, but , for me, it was all smoke and mirrors. He was never the right man and certainly had nothing on his CV to change my mind.Disagree with a few of these points (ignore my username I'm not biased honestly).
Didn't buy a goalscorer: Literally bought the best goalscorer of all time
Never affected games when it wasn't going right: How many comebacks did we have over his first 2 seasons?
Overall I'd say Ole was worse out of the 2, only because Rangnick didn't have long enough to screw it up even more. At least Ole's first 6 months earned him a new contract. Rangnick's first 6 months haven't really changed anything in the slightest
And when I said "goal-scorer" I meant a proper centre forward/No.9 which, as great as Ronnie is (goat if you ask me), he is not one of those. We need someone who regularly scores 20 league goals a season. The sort we alway used to have (often more than one of them at the same time, like Kane and Son).
And if Ole had stayed any longer, I reckon we'd be in an even worse place now. So I'm sticking with my original decision, although can't really disagree that cannot believe RR would not have "got it right" given more time - although it might have helped if he'd been allowed to bring people in during the January window
I recall that being written but it was them and still is now behind a paywall.
If that article by Luckhurst is true, holy shit, take a bow Ole, he couldnt do more harm even if he was a Liverpool fan. Ole assembled snakes and cnuts version of Avengers.
Ole was worse, because he had backing by the club & the toxicity happened under his watch.
Ralf came in to a sh*t show, the coaches left leaving him stranded.
Only thing he really did wrong was listen to the players & not be tough enough on them.
Ralf came in to a sh*t show, the coaches left leaving him stranded.
Only thing he really did wrong was listen to the players & not be tough enough on them.
Leeds.
Hard to compare, as Ole was here for quite a while and should have had some influence on transfers - not sure if this really was the case though.
While I agree that under Ole we at lease were a certain kind of threat he absolutely needed to go as there was 0 progress and improvement. The logical thing would have been to go for Conte, but obviously the idea was another one in the long run.
Being from Austria I believe that Rangnick's strength is not directly beside the pitch, but when it comes to change the set-up backstage into a modern one. I think the idea is that he should improve the whole structure of how Austrian football is working, youth set-up etc. and while he is the official face there will be people doing the actual drills on the pitch.
So to answer the question I would argue both are not very good coaches, but I am glad we got rid of Ole and have now ETH taking over. For the future it also might help that Rangnick got an inside view and laid bare some of the abysmal shortcomings which might speed up the reorganisation process.
While I agree that under Ole we at lease were a certain kind of threat he absolutely needed to go as there was 0 progress and improvement. The logical thing would have been to go for Conte, but obviously the idea was another one in the long run.
Being from Austria I believe that Rangnick's strength is not directly beside the pitch, but when it comes to change the set-up backstage into a modern one. I think the idea is that he should improve the whole structure of how Austrian football is working, youth set-up etc. and while he is the official face there will be people doing the actual drills on the pitch.
So to answer the question I would argue both are not very good coaches, but I am glad we got rid of Ole and have now ETH taking over. For the future it also might help that Rangnick got an inside view and laid bare some of the abysmal shortcomings which might speed up the reorganisation process.
Thats the point and why you can't even compare the two. Of course Rangnick failed, but he's not the reason why everything imploded. Ole had 3 years hundreds of millions of investment, full coaching team around him - and it ended up in grim disaster.
Ralf had zero investment, zero time, none of his chosen coaches and then also failed. But he didn't create this mess he just became another part of it. The Ole regime was a disaster.
The inside story of the worst Manchester United season in decades
United never had the character in their dressing room for an interim manager to operate. The United manager's authority eroded in the last months of Jose Mourinho's tenure, Solskjaer felt like a substitute teacher and the professorial Rangnick was more befitting that description.
Rangnick started to cut loose in his press conferences and that was described as the 'filtered version' by a source. The majority of the United players were never having Rangnick's methods and his diagnosis the squad required 'open-heart surgery' went down badly with them. That is now an emergency operation, although you might need to check if some at United have a heart.
Erik ten Hag will have to fumigate the dressing room. The United squad is a toxic mix of backbiting and spitefulness. A player described the mood as 'toxic' and Jesse Lingard was unfussed Paul Scholes publicised his description of the dressing room as a 'disaster' after the Arsenal defeat.
Those close to one player referred to Rangnick as 'specs' behind his back, craven playground bully behaviour that should be rooted out, not rewarded with a new contract. The squad's disillusionment was a source of fascination to Ferguson, who used backchannels to gauge the mood.
One player complained Rangnick 'talked to him like a child' and 'did not give a s---e' about Rangnick's advice. Another player was dubbed a 'teacher's pet'. One senior player spoke disparagingly of any competitor for his position. Some players found Anthony Elanga's playing time mind-boggling.
A player who took umbrage with criticism he received from Solskjaer two months into the season said the Norwegian was 'finished'. A month later, Solskjaer was. Once some contracts have expired, the nest will be sparser but some vipers are still slithering.
The in-fighting actually went public when a player scored and barely celebrated. An enthusiastic teammate encouraged him to smile in front of a nearby camera, which only incensed the player, irritated by his teammate's apparent obsequiousness. This happened with United winning in a game they won.
Come the listless defeat at Goodison Park in early April, a source close to one player said several players had 'mentally checked out'. Everton players were distinctly unimpressed by United in the reverse fixture six months earlier and rued drawing 1-1.
The season was still salvageable when Rangnick was introduced to the press at Old Trafford on the first Friday of December but the rot that had set in under Solskjaer was incurable. Paul Pogba resented his half-time introduction in the 5-0 evisceration by Liverpool with the visitors 4-0 up and he lasted 15 minutes of the second-half until his expulsion. Pogba left the pitch sooner at Anfield.
Ronaldo's gravitas was largely appreciated at United, particularly by the younger players, and he was holding the dressing room together in the final weeks of Solskjaer's tenure. Ronaldo's presence cowed Maguire and some players partially blamed their own downturn in form on Maguire's struggles. One player suggested Maguire got an easier ride than other United centre-backs as far back as the 2-0 home defeat to Burnley in January 2020.
A meeting attended by senior players and Rangnick was held without Maguire in February and caused ructions. Pogba was present and retrospectively apologised to Rangnick as he did not want to appear as though he was undermining the manager. Dressing room sources described a senior player's behaviour in the meeting as a 'hijacking'.
Eric Bailly abhorred Maguire's privileges and questioned how he could continue to start whilst underperforming. Another player claimed Maguire was 'not good enough'. Several teammates agree Bruno Fernandes's wasteful approach is 'a problem'.
A reporter new on the Manchester beat wrote United suspected where the 'unsavoury leaks' had emerged from. Like in Murder on the Orient Express, more than one passenger stuck the knife in.
Towards the end of Solskjaer's tenure, United players were at the end of their tether with Solskjaer. He held a team meeting and asked the players if they still trusted him. A player noticed almost everyone was avoiding eye contact and 'looking at their shoes'.
Player sources believe Solskjaer's legacy has been one of distrust. Several still under contract want to leave as they feel they were sold a pup by the former manager and it has driven a wedge between them and the club.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ll-news/man-united-news-inside-story-23661212
Before voting one must ask did rangnick create this problem ?
Read the fecking article the players had checked out in bloody april and most didn't give a flying feck what rangnick said yet its rangnicks fault. feck off, you're part of the problem. See you next season when you'll be baying for ten hag's blood when the players throw him under the bus.
Read the fecking article the players had checked out in bloody april and most didn't give a flying feck what rangnick said yet its rangnicks fault. feck off, you're part of the problem. See you next season when you'll be baying for ten hag's blood when the players throw him under the bus.
It's crazy RR is actually leading this poll. He did a very bad job, true, and it's now clear that, with this group of players, it was a terrible idea to appoint an interim manager that was so explicitly just an interim manager, but it was an impossible job, as he inherited a fecking mess, had 0 backing from the club, got 0 consideration and 0 professionality from the players... basically was never given a chance; OGS on the other hand did so much damage (as a manager, I'm in no way detracting from his status as a player) that we'll see how United get out of this without a major overhaul of the squad, the training methods and the playing style. I really hope the rot is not as deep as it seems to be, otherwise ETH is going to struggle badly, as would any manager in the world.
I don't blame Rangnick, he came into a club where the inmates had been running the asylum, had not been coached properly since Van Gaal left, the squad was an imbalanced mess and the fitness levels appalling. He tried to make them work and improve things and it was obvious to everyone and there mums that the squad just downed tools.
I have no idea if Rangnick is a good coach or not, but certainly don't blame him for the mess he walked into
I have no idea if Rangnick is a good coach or not, but certainly don't blame him for the mess he walked into
Ole is jolly sitting on lolly while wan-bissaka and Maguire are bane.
They were both utter failures.
With the squad we have, the results have been pathetic.
I just finished (and am now depressed!) looking back at our results for the season:
Finished 2nd, brought in world class Varane, world class potential in Sancho, GOAT contender Ronaldo and end up with out WORST ever season.
With the squad we have, the results have been pathetic.
I just finished (and am now depressed!) looking back at our results for the season:
- We did not win 3 games in a row at any stage
- We won 2 games in a row on just 4 occassions.
Finished 2nd, brought in world class Varane, world class potential in Sancho, GOAT contender Ronaldo and end up with out WORST ever season.
This. Was going to say the same.
Whys it funny? Ole took over a squad that was being sabotaged by Mou. He came in and gave them all the freedom they wanted so it was a pretty easy job lifting the morale of the players until it came to the stage where he had to coach them and was found wanting. Ralf came in to a completely different scenario where he had to instill discipline because Ole basically let the players do whatever they wanted during his time with us which is why we're in the situation we're in at the moment.
I'm 100% positive that if ETH had of came in instead of Ralf he wouldn't of fared much better due to the cancer running through the club. Once again why's it funny when ETH shows that things aren't as bad? How can you compare the 2 when ETH has the opportunity to cut the cancer out and bring in his own players and have a full pre season to prepare his ideas? Don't you think that gives him a distinct advantage?
Ole couldn't see our biggest problem was in midfield and han time to correct this.
Rangnick was not allowed bring in a midfielder and a striker in January. So I would say Ole was worse. Out of his depth.
Rangnick was not allowed bring in a midfielder and a striker in January. So I would say Ole was worse. Out of his depth.
Ole is easily the worst coach we've had post Ferguson. Moyes was tough to beat but at least he had some credentials. We are only now seeing how bad Ole was and the rot he allowed to set in and accelerate in the club.
Ragnick has been poor on the pitch but he inherited an impossible task, and what he has done brilliantly is expose the rotten apples in the squad and highlight where the changes need to be made. For that he can be applauded.
Ragnick has been poor on the pitch but he inherited an impossible task, and what he has done brilliantly is expose the rotten apples in the squad and highlight where the changes need to be made. For that he can be applauded.
Ole. Ralf was here for no time at all and brought good ideas. Unfortunately he just wasn't backed in January, and the players had already given up.
There's an argument to be had for there being a better short-term option than Ralf, but I don't think he was worse than Ole. Not in his tactics or what he did for the club. Ole was a waste of years of time we could have spent retooling.
There's an argument to be had for there being a better short-term option than Ralf, but I don't think he was worse than Ole. Not in his tactics or what he did for the club. Ole was a waste of years of time we could have spent retooling.
CAF logic... Ole left behind a squad that Ralf couldn't get top four with so that is oles fault ! Ignore the fact that he got second and 3rd with the same / a worse squad.
Ole lost it in the end, totally lost it. But this thread is a joke. It isn't oles fault Ralf didn't worse than ole, it just makes no sense. Ole built the squad for himself, not for whatever random manager we appointed after him. Think about it
Ole lost it in the end, totally lost it. But this thread is a joke. It isn't oles fault Ralf didn't worse than ole, it just makes no sense. Ole built the squad for himself, not for whatever random manager we appointed after him. Think about it
Ole, no doubt. The tinkering with the squad, buying players/not selling players and not giving them any minutes, the lack of tactics, free flow football and so on... worst-coach-ever!! Ralf never stood a chance.
I don't really think either of them claiming to be better than the other is much praise to be honest. Both haven't been close to good enough for a number of reasons.
Are you asking who was worse simply in the context of this season?
That's like saying we only saw how bad fergie was when Moyes came 7th with the players and the rot fergie had let set in. Ralf is responsible for his own results
Thats why he's more to blame. He spunked half a billion ffs and rangnick is getting blamed even though he didn't spunk even a quid.
What's your role within the club seeing as you seemingly know what's going on? I mean I assume you have substance to what you're saying rather than just what you've read on Twitter
Is fergie to blame for Moyes 7th place. Seems like same situation. Did fergie leave a rot that it was impossible for Moyes to operate under. Or is Moyes responsible for results that took a squad that was better than 7th to 7th.
Ole, it's not even close.
It is indeed crazy, but it is modern fan mentality, short term memory, watch only stats and numbers, ignore context. Modern football fan. They will be on Ten Hags back in no time too.
I suppose any loss ETH has will be oles fault for telling the players not to try ( or only to try for him where they were prob the best side in world football at comebacks )
Ole was poor but with Ralf there was no new manager bounce, if he is such a wise sage he should have insisted on a MF in January before joining and he looked well out if his depth. He didn't blood many youngsters, nor drop Bruno (I think he subbed him off once?).
What the actual feck
Substance comes from common sense which it seems a lot of people are lacking in on here. It's actually cringe worthy watching people destroy Ralf to try and justify the terrible state that the previous manager left behind. Ralf wasn't good enough for whatever reasons but the damage done by the previous regime is a lot more long term than anything Ralf ever done. That's not even debatable unless it's agenda driven.
Yes. Insane. But the same logic people use to say ole is more responsible than Ralf for ralfs results
Yes, if Ferguson left us in 7th, which is what Ole did.
Thats not even a part of discussion, what.
Regarding previous part, yea its insane even attempting to compare RR failed stint with Moyes taking over from SAF.
The whole premise to this thread is dumb. Did Ralf do a worse job at managing Ole’s squad (minus Mason Greenwood) than Ole did? Can’t be arsed doing the maths but his PPG from this season must be (slightly) worse so that answers that question. Not that it was any kind of mystery.
Was Ralf a worse manager than Ole? We have absolutely no idea. Because Ralf wasn’t allowed sign a single player, never mind build a team.
Was Ralf a worse manager than Ole? We have absolutely no idea. Because Ralf wasn’t allowed sign a single player, never mind build a team.
Full-time manager vs interim. It doesn't sound like a fair fight.
I'll go for the overall impact by ole.
Rangnick doesn't seem able to bring motivation to the players but he did well in exposing how toxic the dressing room.
Tbf, I always felt rangnick reign is irrelevant result wise.
I'll go for the overall impact by ole.
Rangnick doesn't seem able to bring motivation to the players but he did well in exposing how toxic the dressing room.
Tbf, I always felt rangnick reign is irrelevant result wise.