Who should leave this summer?

The Hilton said:
We've just finished a season where the lack of quality depth in our squad has cost us multiple trophies (or at least a proper crack at them), and you're suggesting that half of the first team can go? For me that's an absolutely nutty perspective, the only players that should be going are the ones on wages that are too high for what they offer (some examples being Jones, Lingard, Mata, Matic, basically fringe players and DDG if he becomes second choice).
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No. I'm suggestion half (or more) of the first team players are for sale at the right price.
 
Craig Ward said:
Agree, I think realistically we still have way too much business to do in one window.

We have at least 10 players who need to leave permanently, some more on loan.

We need a starting player for CB/DM/CF as a priority and possibly 1/2 more in to enhance the quality around the squad. We have so much traffic to get the squad to where it needs to be. We are going to have to base what we can bring in by what we can get out realistically
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Would happily join the race for Haaland next summer in regards to a CF if we can get that CB, DM/CM & RW this summer, still cannot decide if we need more of a pure DM who just sits in front of the back four or more of a playmaker who controls the tempo of the play in the middle.
 
MichaelRed said:
So, a penalty shootout is how we're going to judge a keeper over a 50-60 game season? We probably won't have another penalty shootout before the man retires ffs. As for Everton, I assume you mean the 3-3 game? First goal is 100% on the defence, 2nd goal the defence & midfielders & was absolutely unstoppable from a GK perspective & the 3rd goal was our horrific set piece organisation as we've seen all season which is down to the coaches and the captain at the back so no, you're talking out your rear end if you want to blame him for Everton. Leipzig you can only be talking about their 3rd goal and again it's shocking defending but De Gea could have done better, still not exactly a howler but he could have done more for sure. One open play mistake from our only first team player to have won the league with us, record holding 4 time player of the year, still a solid 8 years off retirement goalkeeper. Big deal.
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Keep making excuses for him all you like, he keeps costing us, time and time again.
 
I love threads like these. Utterly delusional fees people expect for the players we want rid of.

We’re (believe it or not) a big club - one of only a handful that don’t get their players bought by bigger teams. To my mind there is only Ronaldo who we sold when we wanted to keep him. And boom, we got a world record fee for him.
 
Jones
Bailly
Dalot
Pereira
Lingard
Matic
Mata
de Gea

It’s quite a lot to get through but I think the first five aren’t good enough and shouldn’t be getting a wage at a club like United

Matic and Mata are both done and de Gea isn’t the keeper he was and should be making way for a new number one
 
Maluco said:
Jones
Bailly
Dalot
Pereira
Lingard
Matic
Mata
de Gea

It’s quite a lot to get through but I think the first five aren’t good enough and shouldn’t be getting a wage at a club like United

Matic and Mata are both done and de Gea isn’t the keeper he was and should be making way for a new number one
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I agree with all of these but you forgot Dan James
 
Maluco said:
Jones
Bailly
Dalot
Pereira
Lingard
Matic
Mata
de Gea

It’s quite a lot to get through but I think the first five aren’t good enough and shouldn’t be getting a wage at a club like United

Matic and Mata are both done and de Gea isn’t the keeper he was and should be making way for a new number one
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agree to an extent. But that’s a lot of players.

let’s be frank, Jones is not going anywhere, as there’s not a single club who would sign him. He’s not played for 18 months.

Bailey has just signed a new contract. I want him gone, but he’s not going anywhere.

Matic/Mata - I think one of them stays. I believe the club will let both go, but Matic in particular seems happy with his role. If Roma do put a bid in for him, we might sell, but I don’t think anyone pays a fee for him. Mata should go, but if he wants to stay, the club will give him another year. Such a great guy, but he really should leave.

Romero/ Grant are almost certain to go.
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
I agree with all of these but you forgot Dan James
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In normal circumstances, I would throw him on there too, but he offers more coming off the bench than Mata, and he has some worth. I would focus on players on big contracts that don’t contribute to start with.

We need to get that wage bill down and ready to bring in quality that will make a difference. None of the above offer anything tangible, bar Lingard and his energy.


ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
agree to an extent. But that’s a lot of players.

let’s be frank, Jones is not going anywhere, as there’s not a single club who would sign him. He’s not played for 18 months.

Bailey has just signed a new contract. I want him gone, but he’s not going anywhere.

Matic/Mata - I think one of them stays. I believe the club will let both go, but Matic in particular seems happy with his role. If Roma do put a bid in for him, we might sell, but I don’t think anyone pays a fee for him. Mata should go, but if he wants to stay, the club will give him another year. Such a great guy, but he really should leave.

Romero/ Grant are almost certain to go.
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I think there is a chance that Bailly can find a buyer and someone willing to take a punt on him. He is unreliable and erratic though and I would prefer to see the back of him. We need reliable options at CB.

Jones, for me, is the biggest example of the malaise and lowering of standards after Ferguson retired. Ferguson would have culled him by now, even though he originally saw potential. Jones staying just says “yeah, you don’t need to do much to play for United anymore”

I think the standards have to return and we should do everything we can to negotiate a payoff and get him out. Unrealistic? Probably, but there should be limits, and his time ran out about 4 seasons ago.

Mata and Matic are the same. I like both of them, but they aren’t good enough to be reliable options week in week out, so they should go and their wage should be used to bring in one player who can make a real difference.

Getting 5 of that list out would be a great summer.
 
Maluco said:
In normal circumstances, I would throw him on there too, but he offers more coming off the bench than Mata, and he has some worth. I would focus on players on big contracts that don’t contribute to start with.

We need to get that wage bill down and ready to bring in quality that will make a difference. None of the above offer anything tangible, bar Lingard and his energy.




I think there is a chance that Bailly can find a buyer and someone willing to take a punt on him. He is unreliable and erratic though and I would prefer to see the back of him. We need reliable options at CB.

Jones, for me, is the biggest example of the malaise and lowering of standards after Ferguson retired. Ferguson would have culled him by now, even though he originally saw potential. Jones staying just says “yeah, you don’t need to do much to play for United anymore”

I think the standards have to return and we should do everything we can to negotiate a payoff and get him out. Unrealistic? Probably, but there should be limits, and his time ran out about 4 seasons ago.

Mata and Matic are the same. I like both of them, but they aren’t good enough to be reliable options week in week out, so they should go and their wage should be used to bring in one player who can make a real difference.

Getting 5 of that list out would be a great summer.
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ultimately I don’t disagree with your list, and there’s not a compelling argument to keep any of those players when looked at individually (except perhaps DDG) - it’s whether these transfers are feasible.

As you say, if we can move 5 on - that’s a good result.
 
Definitely should leave:

-Matic
-Mata
-Jones
-Pereira


Depending on who arrives should leave
-Tuanzebe (with buy back clause)
-Bailly
-Lingard
-Williams
-Van de Beek
-James


All of those should leave unfortunately we need squad depth so we can ship them out all at once.
 
Mata- nailed on he will go and prob on a free
Lingard- time is right to cash in while his stock is high
Jones- a total disaster
Romero- Good as gone sadly
Dalot- vastly overrated prob get 6mill for him
Periera- see Dalot
Chong- see Dalot

James- would send on loan to premier league team where he will play
Williams- loan premier league
Garner- loan premier league
Shoretire- loan championship

Unless we sign Rice/Tielemaans Matic will stay

I'm all for getting rid of Pogba and Martial too if it means we get Grealish and maybe Kane
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Keep making excuses for him all you like, he keeps costing us, time and time again.
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Time and time again being akin to you've not got a clue what you're talking about and can't name a legitimate time this season? And your solution is to replace him with a skinnier, shorter, less commanding & more error prone Dean Henderson? Niceee.
 
Not including contracts that will run out, and this is what I would do. I don't see much value to getting rid of Martial, need depth and he's fine as a back up LW.

De Gea - Probably a Sanchez situation
Dalot - £12m
Bailly - £10m
Matic - £5m
James - £20m
Lingard - £20m
Pereira - £5m
Chong - £2m
Jones- Free
Pogba (swap for Varane)

= £74m

Probably low on a few valuations, but I'd rather go lower than higher. I like Matic so that's the one I would happily take of the list
 
MichaelRed said:
Time and time again being akin to you've not got a clue what you're talking about and can't name a legitimate time this season? And your solution is to replace him with a skinnier, shorter, less commanding & more error prone Dean Henderson? Niceee.
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I did and you came up with horseshit excuses for why it wasnt calamity daves fault. Are you sure you arent scouse with your blame dodging?
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
I did and you came up with horseshit excuses for why it wasnt calamity daves fault. Are you sure you arent scouse with your blame dodging?
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You're literally blaming him for things that aren't his fault. Just looking at your other posts, it's like the man has personally wronged you with how strong your agenda is against him.
 
MichaelRed said:
You're literally blaming him for things that aren't his fault. Just looking at your other posts, it's like the man has personally wronged you with how strong your agenda is against him.
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No agenda, I just call it as I see it, he was at one point the best shot stopper in the world, never as many claim the best goal keeper in the world. And over the last three seasons he has cost us, at crucial moments, repeatedly. He lacks in an ability to cope with high pressure situations, command of his area, command of his defence and I expect more from our #1. I look forward to him being replaced.
 
I would say the only two who should definitely leave are Juan Mata and Lee Grant.

Syke!
 
The Hilton said:
Is there a way they can be for sale and not go? Anyway semantics aside the idea is ridiculous.
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Yes. If there are no willing buyers or the player is adamant about staying they may not be sold although the club is willing to sell (ie. they are for sale). The club may also decide that they don't want to make too many changes to senior playing squad at the same time and keep a player who would otherwise be for sale after the club has already signed and sold 5-6 senior players.
 
I see arguments that we have failed this last season as our squad depth isn tgood enough and others that our first elven is actually the reason. The simple truth is it is actually both. The other reason is some of our most talented players are really inconsistent. That is the problem on the playing side. Recent reports showing we have £140m to spend this window. If we are to sort problems we simply HAVE to raise money to buy another player or two of top quality on top of that.

Who or how many players we sell is to be seen and has to be feasible. For me though, there are three brackets of players we shoul dbe looking to sell from or release:

Deadwood - Grant, Jones, Dalot, Lingard, Pereira, Chong

Players not really improving the squad due to ability/injuries/age - Bailly, Mata, James, Matic

Marquee Sales or contract problems/inconsistent talents - DeGea, Pogba, VDB, Martial

We may have finished second in the league and reached a european final, but that is a big list of players there are reasons to sell, nearly half our squad. But looking at that list, how many would be regular first eleven players next season, maybe two? How many would be valuable squad members playing a lot of games if we didnt have injury problems even without signings this summer 4/5 and a few of those could be replaced by some of the youngsters we have comign through.

There is a good £100m worth of sales I feel if we clear the deadwood and sell the RIGHT players to sell. For me, these would be:

ALL of the deadwood, Mata, James, Matic, Pogba, VDB - that bring in over £100m for 11 players and ideally a £250m summer budget.

Replacement wise, not much needed:

Grant - Heaton
Jones - Mengi
Dalot - Laird
Lingard - Shoetire
Pereira - Hannibal
Mata - Amad
James - Elanga
Matic - Garner

We already have replacements fo rmost within our squad. Only VDB and Pogba would need replacing and personally I dont buy in to either player being right for the double pivot no matter who we were to sign alongside them, so really positionally we are just talking about a left sided player or a number 10 as there best positions combined...where we already have Fernandes and Rashord.....as an example Grealish automatically replaces both positions....he also replaces James/Mata/Pereira/Lingard positionally all in one. The othe roption is selling both buys a top top defensive midfielder that neither of them are.

Of course the reality is from what we are reading is Mata may be given a new contract....wrongly like Bailly. Pogba may get a new contrct or kept to run down his contract, despite his obvious ability....wrongly in my opinion, there are contract talks with Grant, why the hell have we signed Heaton then? I think we will sell JOnes, Dalot, Lingard and maybe one other, rest will be loans, that will raise £30-35m...we buy Sancho for £85m....leaving us £85m, we buy a defender for £50-60m......leaves little and wouldnt surprise me if the other signing is Trippier...again wrongly as we dont need anothe rright back Laird/Williams is fine as back up.......worst fear is that means NO defensive midfielder.

COnsidering that signing SAncho and a quality centre back should be considered a good window, would sitll be a poor one for me as still have many of the same problems......we could have a window for example of Romero, Camavinga, SAncho AND Grealish or anothe rdefensive midfielder if we did everything right this summer.Sickening really, if we had some balls in this window we really could compete next season
 
jesperjaap said:
I see arguments that we have failed this last season as our squad depth isn tgood enough and others that our first elven is actually the reason. The simple truth is it is actually both. The other reason is some of our most talented players are really inconsistent. That is the problem on the playing side. Recent reports showing we have £140m to spend this window. If we are to sort problems we simply HAVE to raise money to buy another player or two of top quality on top of that.

Who or how many players we sell is to be seen and has to be feasible. For me though, there are three brackets of players we shoul dbe looking to sell from or release:

Deadwood - Grant, Jones, Dalot, Lingard, Pereira, Chong

Players not really improving the squad due to ability/injuries/age - Bailly, Mata, James, Matic

Marquee Sales or contract problems/inconsistent talents - DeGea, Pogba, VDB, Martial

We may have finished second in the league and reached a european final, but that is a big list of players there are reasons to sell, nearly half our squad. But looking at that list, how many would be regular first eleven players next season, maybe two? How many would be valuable squad members playing a lot of games if we didnt have injury problems even without signings this summer 4/5 and a few of those could be replaced by some of the youngsters we have comign through.

There is a good £100m worth of sales I feel if we clear the deadwood and sell the RIGHT players to sell. For me, these would be:

ALL of the deadwood, Mata, James, Matic, Pogba, VDB - that bring in over £100m for 11 players and ideally a £250m summer budget.

Replacement wise, not much needed:

Grant - Heaton
Jones - Mengi
Dalot - Laird
Lingard - Shoetire
Pereira - Hannibal
Mata - Amad
James - Elanga
Matic - Garner

We already have replacements fo rmost within our squad. Only VDB and Pogba would need replacing and personally I dont buy in to either player being right for the double pivot no matter who we were to sign alongside them, so really positionally we are just talking about a left sided player or a number 10 as there best positions combined...where we already have Fernandes and Rashord.....as an example Grealish automatically replaces both positions....he also replaces James/Mata/Pereira/Lingard positionally all in one. The othe roption is selling both buys a top top defensive midfielder that neither of them are.

Of course the reality is from what we are reading is Mata may be given a new contract....wrongly like Bailly. Pogba may get a new contrct or kept to run down his contract, despite his obvious ability....wrongly in my opinion, there are contract talks with Grant, why the hell have we signed Heaton then? I think we will sell JOnes, Dalot, Lingard and maybe one other, rest will be loans, that will raise £30-35m...we buy Sancho for £85m....leaving us £85m, we buy a defender for £50-60m......leaves little and wouldnt surprise me if the other signing is Trippier...again wrongly as we dont need anothe rright back Laird/Williams is fine as back up.......worst fear is that means NO defensive midfielder.

COnsidering that signing SAncho and a quality centre back should be considered a good window, would sitll be a poor one for me as still have many of the same problems......we could have a window for example of Romero, Camavinga, SAncho AND Grealish or anothe rdefensive midfielder if we did everything right this summer.Sickening really, if we had some balls in this window we really could compete next season
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I think some of those young players need game time for development and they aren't ready for United just yet. Except Amad and maybe Hannibal.
 
The fantasy prices being put on some of our players are beyond laughable.
Also the complete lack of understanding or appreciation of how current contracts, wages and the state of the market, blow some of these ideas clean out of the water.

Dea Gea - unless he actually wants to leave and is willing to take a big pay cut, who is even going to bid for him?
It’s almost like the Sanchez trap, all over again.

Jones - never fit, never plays and on big money that nobody else will come even close to matching. Why should he want to leave and who is going to pay any transfer fee at all, never mind his wages, for a player with such a poor injury record and hasn’t played, for what seems like years. He wasn’t even a regular for a couple of years before that.
The only way Jones is leaving before his contract runs out, in 2 years time, is if he wants to be released and the club buy him out at an agreed fee.

If Mata doesn’t accept the offer of a contract extension, or if the reports are rubbish, then he’s free to leave sometime over the next few weeks. No transfer fee possible.

Matic - What length of contract will he be offered elsewhere, at his age and stage of his career? Would he really fetch more than a few million, or even less?

James - I can’t see he’s done enough for us to get back what we paid for him, but there’s some value there.

Pereira and Chong - beer money at best.

Pogba - he and Raiola will be demanding big wages at any new club, in addition to big signing on and agents fees.
After all, this will be Pogba’s and Raiola’s last big payday for brand Pogba.
Straight away that limits the number of potential buyers.
With only the final year of his contract left, nobody is going to pay a big transfer fee, or anything like what Utd are supposed to value him at, when he’ll be available for free this time next year.
So, unless we accept a much smaller fee (we could be talking about £20 m or so) the options are...he runs his contract down and walks for free next summer, to sign on elsewhere, ....or we arrange an exchange deal that suits all four parties ( Pogba, Utd, the other club and the other player coming in). Alternatively, the club are stupid enough to offer him completely unjustifiable, OTT wages to sign another deal.
The ball is entirely in their court and Utd hold no cards in this particular game.

DVB - I’m not sure we should even be talking about sell him yet. Sure he’s not made any impact yet, but then he hasn’t been given anything more than very limited opportunities. If there is going to be a midfield clear out, that gives Utd a chance to see where he could fit in.
Next season will be the time to judge if he’s worth keeping.
If he wants to leave due to disappointment and frustration, then we’ll almost certainly take a loss on the deal.

Setting aside De Gea and DVB, we could be looking at well below £50m for that lot. Much less if Pogba stays..
More importantly for those players, is getting them off the wage bill.



.
 
Banana Republic said:
The fantasy prices being put on some of our players are beyond laughable.
Also the complete lack of understanding or appreciation of how current contracts, wages and the state of the market, blow some of these ideas clean out of the water.

Dea Gea - unless he actually wants to leave and is willing to take a big pay cut, who is even going to bid for him?
It’s almost like the Sanchez trap, all over again.

Jones - never fit, never plays and on big money that nobody else will come even close to matching. Why should he want to leave and who is going to pay any transfer fee at all, never mind his wages, for a player with such a poor injury record and hasn’t played, for what seems like years. He wasn’t even a regular for a couple of years before that.
The only way Jones is leaving before his contract runs out, in 2 years time, is if he wants to be released and the club buy him out at an agreed fee.

If Mata doesn’t accept the offer of a contract extension, or if the reports are rubbish, then he’s free to leave sometime over the next few weeks. No transfer fee possible.

Matic - What length of contract will he be offered elsewhere, at his age and stage of his career? Would he really fetch more than a few million, or even less?

James - I can’t see he’s done enough for us to get back what we paid for him, but there’s some value there.

Pereira and Chong - beer money at best.

Pogba - he and Raiola will be demanding big wages at any new club, in addition to big signing on and agents fees.
After all, this will be Pogba’s and Raiola’s last big payday for brand Pogba.
Straight away that limits the number of potential buyers.
With only the final year of his contract left, nobody is going to pay a big transfer fee, or anything like what Utd are supposed to value him at, when he’ll be available for free this time next year.
So, unless we accept a much smaller fee (we could be talking about £20 m or so) the options are...he runs his contract down and walks for free next summer, to sign on elsewhere, ....or we arrange an exchange deal that suits all four parties ( Pogba, Utd, the other club and the other player coming in). Alternatively, the club are stupid enough to offer him completely unjustifiable, OTT wages to sign another deal.
The ball is entirely in their court and Utd hold no cards in this particular game.

DVB - I’m not sure we should even be talking about sell him yet. Sure he’s not made any impact yet, but then he hasn’t been given anything more than very limited opportunities. If there is going to be a midfield clear out, that gives Utd a chance to see where he could fit in.
Next season will be the time to judge if he’s worth keeping.
If he wants to leave due to disappointment and frustration, then we’ll almost certainly take a loss on the deal.

Setting aside De Gea and DVB, we could be looking at well below £50m for that lot. Much less if Pogba stays..
More importantly for those players, is getting them off the wage bill.



.
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Yeah at least with a swap deal for Pogba then the club might actually see the need to sign a DM and use Donny as the CM next to him but whether they actually look for some value outside of Rice I very much have my doubts on, in regards to DDG completely agree that he will be very hard to shift on such enormous wages and we are left with a Sanchez situation again. Keep hoping that we could do some kind of deal with Atletico and Oblak going the other way but that's never gonna happen.
 
Banana Republic said:
The fantasy prices being put on some of our players are beyond laughable.
Also the complete lack of understanding or appreciation of how current contracts, wages and the state of the market, blow some of these ideas clean out of the water.

Dea Gea - unless he actually wants to leave and is willing to take a big pay cut, who is even going to bid for him?
It’s almost like the Sanchez trap, all over again.

Jones - never fit, never plays and on big money that nobody else will come even close to matching. Why should he want to leave and who is going to pay any transfer fee at all, never mind his wages, for a player with such a poor injury record and hasn’t played, for what seems like years. He wasn’t even a regular for a couple of years before that.
The only way Jones is leaving before his contract runs out, in 2 years time, is if he wants to be released and the club buy him out at an agreed fee.

If Mata doesn’t accept the offer of a contract extension, or if the reports are rubbish, then he’s free to leave sometime over the next few weeks. No transfer fee possible.

Matic - What length of contract will he be offered elsewhere, at his age and stage of his career? Would he really fetch more than a few million, or even less?

James - I can’t see he’s done enough for us to get back what we paid for him, but there’s some value there.

Pereira and Chong - beer money at best.

Pogba - he and Raiola will be demanding big wages at any new club, in addition to big signing on and agents fees.
After all, this will be Pogba’s and Raiola’s last big payday for brand Pogba.
Straight away that limits the number of potential buyers.
With only the final year of his contract left, nobody is going to pay a big transfer fee, or anything like what Utd are supposed to value him at, when he’ll be available for free this time next year.
So, unless we accept a much smaller fee (we could be talking about £20 m or so) the options are...he runs his contract down and walks for free next summer, to sign on elsewhere, ....or we arrange an exchange deal that suits all four parties ( Pogba, Utd, the other club and the other player coming in). Alternatively, the club are stupid enough to offer him completely unjustifiable, OTT wages to sign another deal.
The ball is entirely in their court and Utd hold no cards in this particular game.

DVB - I’m not sure we should even be talking about sell him yet. Sure he’s not made any impact yet, but then he hasn’t been given anything more than very limited opportunities. If there is going to be a midfield clear out, that gives Utd a chance to see where he could fit in.
Next season will be the time to judge if he’s worth keeping.
If he wants to leave due to disappointment and frustration, then we’ll almost certainly take a loss on the deal.

Setting aside De Gea and DVB, we could be looking at well below £50m for that lot. Much less if Pogba stays..
More importantly for those players, is getting them off the wage bill.



.
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I get what you are saying but sans Pogba - Williams, James, Lingard and Dalot can easily get us £50m. With DE Gea the options could be limited due to his huge contract but I can't see him settling for a bit part role here, he will take a paycut and move to Spain or PSG might see something in him and sign him!

If we bring in a starting CB then one of Bailly/Axel is out of the door, that gives us another £20m, whilst Jones will have to go out on loan to restart his career. Then a player like Matic and Pereira could be used as a make-weights in a deal for a DM.
 
jackal&hyde said:
I think some of those young players need game time for development and they aren't ready for United just yet. Except Amad and maybe Hannibal.
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I agree with you with some of them yes, but outside of James and Matic, how much game time have the players they would be replacing had for us, virtually none. So stsying to develop here or going on loan....still the same as the players they are replacing. The mjproty of the squad isnt weakened

GK: DeGea - Henderson
RB: Bissaka - Laird/Williams
CB: Maguire - Lindelof - Bailly - Tuanzabe
LB: Shaw - Telles
DM - Fred - Mctominay - Garner
AM - Fernandes - Hannibal
LW - Rashford - Elanga
RW - Greenwood - AMad
CF - Cavani - Martial

In the case of James and Matic, you would hope these are two areas we are looking to strengthen regardless this summer. As mentioned, add a Grealish to that side and the LW and AM and even to a lesser degree RW is immediately strengthened squad and first team wise for me with both a unique and better option than 3 or 4 of those sold. Or simply adding a SAncho for example....Greenwood is two footed so could also play on the left. Of course that defensive midfield looks weak....but then again it does to me with Pogba or VDB too, and Matic is only a 10 game a season player or last 20/30mins probably now, which maybe is worth keeping but Garner either deserves that chance....or sell him. Really, bar Pogba, that side looks little different to it is now. Raising those funds to add 4 quality players to the squad rathr than a couple which is what happens if we only sell a couple of deadwoods players, is a far better outcome for me if we buy well
 
Banana Republic said:
The fantasy prices being put on some of our players are beyond laughable.
Also the complete lack of understanding or appreciation of how current contracts, wages and the state of the market, blow some of these ideas clean out of the water.

Dea Gea - unless he actually wants to leave and is willing to take a big pay cut, who is even going to bid for him?
It’s almost like the Sanchez trap, all over again.

Jones - never fit, never plays and on big money that nobody else will come even close to matching. Why should he want to leave and who is going to pay any transfer fee at all, never mind his wages, for a player with such a poor injury record and hasn’t played, for what seems like years. He wasn’t even a regular for a couple of years before that.
The only way Jones is leaving before his contract runs out, in 2 years time, is if he wants to be released and the club buy him out at an agreed fee.

If Mata doesn’t accept the offer of a contract extension, or if the reports are rubbish, then he’s free to leave sometime over the next few weeks. No transfer fee possible.

Matic - What length of contract will he be offered elsewhere, at his age and stage of his career? Would he really fetch more than a few million, or even less?

James - I can’t see he’s done enough for us to get back what we paid for him, but there’s some value there.

Pereira and Chong - beer money at best.

Pogba - he and Raiola will be demanding big wages at any new club, in addition to big signing on and agents fees.
After all, this will be Pogba’s and Raiola’s last big payday for brand Pogba.
Straight away that limits the number of potential buyers.
With only the final year of his contract left, nobody is going to pay a big transfer fee, or anything like what Utd are supposed to value him at, when he’ll be available for free this time next year.
So, unless we accept a much smaller fee (we could be talking about £20 m or so) the options are...he runs his contract down and walks for free next summer, to sign on elsewhere, ....or we arrange an exchange deal that suits all four parties ( Pogba, Utd, the other club and the other player coming in). Alternatively, the club are stupid enough to offer him completely unjustifiable, OTT wages to sign another deal.
The ball is entirely in their court and Utd hold no cards in this particular game.

DVB - I’m not sure we should even be talking about sell him yet. Sure he’s not made any impact yet, but then he hasn’t been given anything more than very limited opportunities. If there is going to be a midfield clear out, that gives Utd a chance to see where he could fit in.
Next season will be the time to judge if he’s worth keeping.
If he wants to leave due to disappointment and frustration, then we’ll almost certainly take a loss on the deal.

Setting aside De Gea and DVB, we could be looking at well below £50m for that lot. Much less if Pogba stays..
More importantly for those players, is getting them off the wage bill.



.
Click to expand...

Yes the biggest problem for us selling players is the contracts they are on. This is why it astounds me we have a history of keeping on renewing them for players we shouldnt be Baill, Jones, Mata, Young, Matic are all recent examples of this.

I do agree with you there. Same token I do also think we totally under value players values with us rather than over value them.

Lingard last summer for example when I was mentioning £10-15m....the general response was he wasnt worth a fee at all. Jones has an injury history and big contract, but to a lesser degree like Lingard, this is a player who has played for his country, is still at a decent age and (injury permitting) would be very valuable to several mid table premiership sides for example.

IF (personally wouldnt sell him at the moment anyway) DeGea was told he is now the number two here, I wouldnt think he would be someone who would want to stay and sit on the bench at this stage in his career for an extra £100k or so a week when he can play at othe rbig clubs and surely still wants to represent his country.

Most of the rest you mention I agree with and its a case of getting them off the books, though 50-50 on whether Matic hold more value within the squad even at his age than a £5-10m fee max

I think with Pogba, regardless of the contract situation, very few clubs coulf afford the transfer fee before thatm and very few the wages, especially with the cotnract situation. I think a successful Euros may well bring in £40/50m though and would expect a £30-40m fee as a minimum anyway, but who knows. Regardless of that fee, a contract of £100m for Pogba based solely on how well he has performed consistently for us over 5years forgetting anything else isnt justified....with everything else it would be utter madness, even for £20m....personally I would sell him rather than a contact running down last season or a stupid new contract
 
Dalot
Perreira
Lingard
Matic (if we sign Rice)
Mata
James (if we sign a world class RW)
Jones (sigh)

Would be great if we can get upwards of 50m for the whole lot.
 
Banana Republic said:
The fantasy prices being put on some of our players are beyond laughable.
Also the complete lack of understanding or appreciation of how current contracts, wages and the state of the market, blow some of these ideas clean out of the water.

Dea Gea - unless he actually wants to leave and is willing to take a big pay cut, who is even going to bid for him?
It’s almost like the Sanchez trap, all over again.

Jones - never fit, never plays and on big money that nobody else will come even close to matching. Why should he want to leave and who is going to pay any transfer fee at all, never mind his wages, for a player with such a poor injury record and hasn’t played, for what seems like years. He wasn’t even a regular for a couple of years before that.
The only way Jones is leaving before his contract runs out, in 2 years time, is if he wants to be released and the club buy him out at an agreed fee.

If Mata doesn’t accept the offer of a contract extension, or if the reports are rubbish, then he’s free to leave sometime over the next few weeks. No transfer fee possible.

Matic - What length of contract will he be offered elsewhere, at his age and stage of his career? Would he really fetch more than a few million, or even less?

James - I can’t see he’s done enough for us to get back what we paid for him, but there’s some value there.

Pereira and Chong - beer money at best.

Pogba - he and Raiola will be demanding big wages at any new club, in addition to big signing on and agents fees.
After all, this will be Pogba’s and Raiola’s last big payday for brand Pogba.
Straight away that limits the number of potential buyers.
With only the final year of his contract left, nobody is going to pay a big transfer fee, or anything like what Utd are supposed to value him at, when he’ll be available for free this time next year.
So, unless we accept a much smaller fee (we could be talking about £20 m or so) the options are...he runs his contract down and walks for free next summer, to sign on elsewhere, ....or we arrange an exchange deal that suits all four parties ( Pogba, Utd, the other club and the other player coming in). Alternatively, the club are stupid enough to offer him completely unjustifiable, OTT wages to sign another deal.
The ball is entirely in their court and Utd hold no cards in this particular game.

DVB - I’m not sure we should even be talking about sell him yet. Sure he’s not made any impact yet, but then he hasn’t been given anything more than very limited opportunities. If there is going to be a midfield clear out, that gives Utd a chance to see where he could fit in.
Next season will be the time to judge if he’s worth keeping.
If he wants to leave due to disappointment and frustration, then we’ll almost certainly take a loss on the deal.

Setting aside De Gea and DVB, we could be looking at well below £50m for that lot. Much less if Pogba stays..
More importantly for those players, is getting them off the wage bill.



.
Click to expand...

Oh and you do raise a very good point on a Pogba swap deal. I actually think though these deals rarely happen, we have started seeing more of them and with the pandemic, they do make more sense too. I do think that is an avenue of transfer deals this summer that could help us get rid of players and pick up others for more reasonable fees, not just with Pogba. I even wonder if this could be negotiated to ease the wages our players are on....Say JOnes goes for £8m in exchange and £2m of that fee is reimbursed to the club or taken off the fee to cover wages shortfall to a degree?

Dalot for Romagnoli
Lingard for Rice

Thats two obvious ones where the players are already on loan at the clubs.

The simple truth is though, no big clubs are going to have players with huge values they want to sell unless they have financial issues as ther eis a reason the player hol dhuge value. We do however have a big squad where a good third of that squad probably should be moved on, even with small fees that should bring in reasonable money especially if a couple of bigger players are added to it....but we wont do that and that is why we will probably only see two big signings this summer and still have half the problems we do currently next summer and be having similar conversations as we have had every summer for the last 7/8 years as enough isnt done numbers wise either way, let alone the quality of the signings made which of course makes the problem go on and on as always players not good enough two years later or the right signings....VDB and James current examples for me and thats £50-60m of transfer fees shelled out there
 
jesperjaap said:
I agree with you with some of them yes, but outside of James and Matic, how much game time have the players they would be replacing had for us, virtually none. So stsying to develop here or going on loan....still the same as the players they are replacing. The mjproty of the squad isnt weakened

GK: DeGea - Henderson
RB: Bissaka - Laird/Williams
CB: Maguire - Lindelof - Bailly - Tuanzabe
LB: Shaw - Telles
DM - Fred - Mctominay - Garner
AM - Fernandes - Hannibal
LW - Rashford - Elanga
RW - Greenwood - AMad
CF - Cavani - Martial

In the case of James and Matic, you would hope these are two areas we are looking to strengthen regardless this summer. As mentioned, add a Grealish to that side and the LW and AM and even to a lesser degree RW is immediately strengthened squad and first team wise for me with both a unique and better option than 3 or 4 of those sold. Or simply adding a SAncho for example....Greenwood is two footed so could also play on the left. Of course that defensive midfield looks weak....but then again it does to me with Pogba or VDB too, and Matic is only a 10 game a season player or last 20/30mins probably now, which maybe is worth keeping but Garner either deserves that chance....or sell him. Really, bar Pogba, that side looks little different to it is now. Raising those funds to add 4 quality players to the squad rathr than a couple which is what happens if we only sell a couple of deadwoods players, is a far better outcome for me if we buy well
Click to expand...
I think it's interesting but it doesn't work. You can't expect successful rotation (getting results) with players that have less then half a season of pro football like Garner and Laird and a handful of games like Amad, Elanga and Hannibal. I admire all of them but putting that level of burden on them at this stage is unfair on them. Remember that much more experienced players like Evra, Vidic and now Fred and DVB found it super difficult to adapt to the pressure of Man Utd.

The best thing for Laird and Garner is another loan to play. Amad and Hannibal look like they are in the super special talent bracket and we will look to find game time for them at United.

It is exceptionally rare that a young player is just unfazed by the step up, your Rooneys and Greenwoods. The vast majority, no matter the talent, need time. I myself am in my mid 30s and after half a decade of working in the health care industry am now moving to the nuclear power plant industry and I'm doing brinks from my bottom from the anxiety this change makes. Moving up to much higher levels is very difficult for anyone, let alone kids with the World judging their every move and word.

Having said that, I do suspect Hannibal might be in the Greenwood category as far as both talent and just not feeling pressure or even enjoying it. I'm glad he signed or else he could have done a Pogba imo.
 
jackal&hyde said:
I think it's interesting but it doesn't work. You can't expect successful rotation (getting results) with players that have less then half a season of pro football like Garner and Laird and a handful of games like Amad, Elanga and Hannibal. I admire all of them but putting that level of burden on them at this stage is unfair on them. Remember that much more experienced players like Evra, Vidic and now Fred and DVB found it super difficult to adapt to the pressure of Man Utd.

The best thing for Laird and Garner is another loan to play. Amad and Hannibal look like they are in the super special talent bracket and we will look to find game time for them at United.

It is exceptionally rare that a young player is just unfazed by the step up, your Rooneys and Greenwoods. The vast majority, no matter the talent, need time. I myself am in my mid 30s and after half a decade of working in the health care industry am now moving to the nuclear power plant industry and I'm doing brinks from my bottom from the anxiety this change makes. Moving up to much higher levels is very difficult for anyone, let alone kids with the World judging their every move and word.

Having said that, I do suspect Hannibal might be in the Greenwood category as far as both talent and just not feeling pressure or even enjoying it. I'm glad he signed or else he could have done a Pogba imo.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with what you are saying....but the deadwood they are replacing were not playing games. My point really is half of those being replaced, dont actually even need replacing. Laird could go on loan, he is replacing Dalot....who was on loan, or he could stay and get a very small sample of games like say Elanga did this season.

The likes of Amad and Elanga have already had a handful of games, not sure they are quite ready but they can get a handful more. If we signed Sancho for example, him and Greenwood are available for the right and left along with Rashford, we dont NEED to rotate the likes of Amad, just develop and bring him in and as we see fit.

If by selling some of these players it allows us to buy 4/5 quality sigings into the remainder of the squad, there is no burden for them. I think we have a really big squad that needs trimming anyway, it is the quality of the first eleven needs improving, doing that relagates some of the current eleven to the bench....that is also improving the squad.

I think with those sales and the right signings, only attacking midfield if Fernandes was injured would we need to be looking at bringing a youngster in as all the other positions would be covered. If we signed the right player such as a Grealish that position would be well covered too.
 
jesperjaap said:
I totally agree with what you are saying....but the deadwood they are replacing were not playing games. My point really is half of those being replaced, dont actually even need replacing. Laird could go on loan, he is replacing Dalot....who was on loan, or he could stay and get a very small sample of games like say Elanga did this season.

The likes of Amad and Elanga have already had a handful of games, not sure they are quite ready but they can get a handful more. If we signed Sancho for example, him and Greenwood are available for the right and left along with Rashford, we dont NEED to rotate the likes of Amad, just develop and bring him in and as we see fit.

If by selling some of these players it allows us to buy 4/5 quality sigings into the remainder of the squad, there is no burden for them. I think we have a really big squad that needs trimming anyway, it is the quality of the first eleven needs improving, doing that relagates some of the current eleven to the bench....that is also improving the squad.

I think with those sales and the right signings, only attacking midfield if Fernandes was injured would we need to be looking at bringing a youngster in as all the other positions would be covered. If we signed the right player such as a Grealish that position would be well covered too.
Click to expand...
I agree completely. No point in having squad players if they are not good enough and don't play anyway. The problem of the quality of our depth is essential imo. We need to do a combination of bringing new players in and promoting youth to take the place of the deadwood.
 
jackal&hyde said:
I agree completely. No point in having squad players if they are not good enough and don't play anyway. The problem of the quality of our depth is essential imo. We need to do a combination of bringing new players in and promoting youth to take the place of the deadwood.
Click to expand...

Yes and I think the main thought that people dont consider is bringing in quality players where we need them. It means the likes of Lindelof and Fred for example are not starting every game where they for me are not good enough. But on the bench as squad options, they are good options and then some of these youngsters can be just behind them to potentially take there place over time without huge pressure or burden.
 
If we sign Sancho then it makes zero sense why should we keep both James & Mata. In common sense, they will be replaced by Sancho & Amad. Unless if Martial is the one who is leaving, I can understand why Ole wants to keep James or Mata but I doubt Martial leaves this summer. VDB also should ask Ole about his situation, he isn’t being used enough so why should we keep him, Pogba & Sancho can play as a no 10 to cover for Bruno.
 
Out:​
£(m)​
​
De Gea​
20​
Not worth his wages. Sell for £30m. Give De Gea £10m to pay off his contract with us. Net £20m​
James​
20​
Heart is willing but top 4 quality isn't there.​
Chong​
4​
Missing MUQ factor.​
Andreas​
8​
Needs to kick his career on.​
Lingard​
25​
Sell now while stock is high​
Bailly​
12​
Fitness question; and I assume United will buy Varane this summer.​
Jones​
0​
Ditto³​
Matic​
6​
Only if we can bring in an inexpensive CDM like Zakaria​
Mata​
0​
If he rejects new contract on reduced wages​
Romero​
0​
Should’ve sold him last summer​
Grant​
0​
Retiring?​
Dalot​
12​
If we can get Trippier for < £20m​
Total :​
107​
​
​
​
​
In:​
​
​
Sancho​
82​
Would normally be the entire transfer budget​
Trippier​
20​
New EU player rules means he now takes up a foreign player slot at Atletico, so he should be available​
Zakaria​
25​
Discount price. Current contract ends in 2022.​
Varane​
40​
Discount price. Current contract ends in 2022.​
Heaton​
0​
35 years old. His current contract with Villa just expired.​
Total :​
167​
​

United can get up. to £107m for players sold. Allowing 3 players in plus Sancho. De Gea should leave because he's not worth his wages and United need to free up the wage bill for Sancho's and Varane's massive wagers. With young forwards like Amad, Elanga, Hannibal, Pellestri, Shoretire; plus Sancho arriving, United don't need to keep James, Chong, Andreas or Lingard; not even Mata. 167m (in) - 107m (out) still leaves some money for strategic buys (like Amad & Pellestri last season).
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Out:​
£(m)​
​
De Gea​
20​
Not worth his wages. Sell for £30m. Give De Gea £10m to pay off his contract with us. Net £20m​
James​
20​
Heart is willing but top 4 quality isn't there.​
Chong​
4​
Missing MUQ factor.​
Andreas​
8​
Needs to kick his career on.​
Lingard​
25​
Sell now while stock is high​
Bailly​
12​
Fitness question; and I assume United will buy Varane this summer.​
Jones​
0​
Ditto³​
Matic​
6​
Only if we can bring in an inexpensive CDM like Zakaria​
Mata​
0​
If he rejects new contract on reduced wages​
Romero​
0​
Should’ve sold him last summer​
Grant​
0​
Retiring?​
Dalot​
12​
If we can get Trippier for < £20m​
Total :​
107​
​
​
​
​
In:​
​
​
Sancho​
82​
Would normally be the entire transfer budget​
Trippier​
20​
New EU player rules means he now takes up a foreign player slot at Atletico, so he should be available​
Zakaria​
25​
Discount price. Current contract ends in 2022.​
Varane​
40​
Discount price. Current contract ends in 2022.​
Heaton​
0​
35 years old. His current contract with Villa just expired.​
Total :​
167​
​

United can get up. to £107m for players sold. Allowing 3 players in plus Sancho. De Gea should leave because he's not worth his wages and United need to free up the wage bill for Sancho's and Varane's massive wagers. With young forwards like Amad, Elanga, Hannibal, Pellestri, Shoretire; plus Sancho arriving, United don't need to keep James, Chong, Andreas or Lingard; not even Mata. 167m (in) - 107m (out) still leaves some money for strategic buys (like Amad & Pellestri last season).
Click to expand...

i think there’s always far less ‘churn’ than we think/ hope will happen.

I can’t argue with any individual sales - but can’t see being able to move that number on.

now, what was interesting is your comment around Trippier. Does this apply to every non EU country? So British, Norwegian, Switzerland national all count as ‘foreigners’? How many are they allowed, is it 3 from memory?
 
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