Felt plenty of left tits as well, my excuse is that it's -29C outside right now and my heater can't cope so typos are the norm today
Who is England's best player ever? (Forget Bobby Charlton)
- Thread starter SCP
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
What a bizarre comment, you’re not aware of Barnes at all, Barnes was one of the few English players who had B’allon dor level ability, neither Robson Lampard Scholes Gerrard or anyone else you would name reached his peak, what let him down was Liverpool not competing in European cups at a time they probably would have been one of the favourites.
Also his performances for England were patchy to say the least.
Tbh on the times of Lineker, Greaves and Charlton we didn't had a lot of teams like San Marino, Gibraltar, Liechtenstein around in Europe. I say this not only for Kane, it's the same argument measuring CR7 with Eusébio.
Cant say best ever as wasnt aroudn to watch the likes of Bobby Charlton. Also dependant on whether we are talking ENglish player or player for England.
For example somebody mentioned John Barnes who was a wonderful talent.....but 90% of the time he was really poor for England. Could aim that at several players from the early years in this century too.
There are a few I think have been brillian tfor ENgland wont even mention, in my lifetime though the best talent we have produced and also the best for England in his prime has to be Paul Gascoigne. Although he had his moments, his career was never the same after the injury though at the stage he was looking like being one of the worlds best. Tremendous talent
For example somebody mentioned John Barnes who was a wonderful talent.....but 90% of the time he was really poor for England. Could aim that at several players from the early years in this century too.
There are a few I think have been brillian tfor ENgland wont even mention, in my lifetime though the best talent we have produced and also the best for England in his prime has to be Paul Gascoigne. Although he had his moments, his career was never the same after the injury though at the stage he was looking like being one of the worlds best. Tremendous talent
Better way to frame the thread would have been to exclude Bobby Charlton and see who comes up as a top 3.
Moore, Gascoigne and (a) keeper would pad out a top 3 per performances for England, I think, but in terms of best, as in ability/talent, Matthews, Finney and Greaves gatecrash the party as well as Edwards.
Moore, Gascoigne and (a) keeper would pad out a top 3 per performances for England, I think, but in terms of best, as in ability/talent, Matthews, Finney and Greaves gatecrash the party as well as Edwards.
Hoodle could be included in the broader list, too. There are soooo many players who I forgot to mention: Hoddle, Mortensen, Waddle, Lofthouse, Pearce, Bloomer (highest number of First Division top scorer titles after Greaves), Adams, and so on.
In my generation the most talented player was probably Gazza, the best player is Scholes. If England used him properly I’m convinced they’d have won a euros or a WC
Definitely. It was going that way with Rooney when he broke the record, but with Kane it just feels even more soft with even worse teams, and constantly banging pens in. Apart from when it matters. (Had one saved in another tournament but was fortunate the rebound fell well for him).
Agree with this but only if we’re going on England performances, Gazza was more talented than Lampard and (any other English player) for example the other was more accomplished in club football it’s why it’s such a difficult question to answer outside Charlton.
Barnes who for a period of a couple years was up there with the very best, played at a time when English clubs were out of Europe, a couple CLs and his name would be right after Charlton and Moore.
Keegan actually won two ballon d’or s but there were more talented players, Robson is up there as well but comes with some of the same caveats that hampered Barnes, Rooney really should have been in the top 3 based on his talent and prodigy but didn’t quite reach the heights we all thought he would...
Gazza probably the stand out pure talent of our generation. Wouldn't get away with the SHOVE signature move these days though.
It doesn’t matter how England used Scholes they wasn’t winning ahead of B’allon dor level players like Ronaldo Zidane or Ronaldinho, it’s just a lazy statement to say really in the end it’s hard to win these big trophies if you don’t have A Ronaldo(both Ronaldos) Henry Mbappe Messi Ronaldinho level player which England haven’t had since Charlton incidentally.
Gerrard
I always had the sensation discussing football with people from England Hoddle and Waddle are excluded from conversations.Hoodle could be included in the broader list, too. There are soooo many players who I forgot to mention: Hoddle, Mortensen, Waddle, Lofthouse, Pearce, Bloomer (highest number of First Division top scorer titles after Greaves), Adams, and so on.
But that perception for outsiders must be related with the fact they played in Monaco and Marseille and people outside England simply rated more them, particularly Waddle for being part of a Bernard Tapie Marseille who had a couple of interesting players around to watch.
But Gascoigne there was a consensus for his talent, I really underestimated the general consensus in England regarding Bobby Charlton. Deserved honestly.
And this isn't to attack Kane or CR7, even Lewandowski, but it's really not the same measuring the number of goals Messi or Neymar score in the South American Qualifiers and what this guys do in Europe, much easier to break records here.
Barnes was a top player, but seriously he was not as good as Robson who was a world class player and leader for years. The other 3 you mentioned were also arguably at least as good.
I’m not sure but I do know it’s not Gerrard
Just in case this isn't a wind-up... Gerrard barely makes the top 20.
Nice
Barnes was world class too from 86-90.
For your team I liked Balakov
Uff don't make me cry about Krasimir. And for a season under Sousa Cintra (former President) we had the chance to have Balakov, Figo and Paulo Sousa on the same midfield.
But then the stupid idiot decided to sack Bobby Robson and he brought Queiroz to replace him. Fair to say Robson had never been sacked before, and only for revenge he went to Porto and won everything he had to do internally and even reached a Champions League Semi Final in 94 vs Barcelona.
Pre Bosman rulling there was funny stuff and players to watch in Europe, Netherlands and Belgium also. Fair to say Balakov and Figo loved Robson, and Balakov hated Queiroz, reason why he left for Stuttgart (obviously not only that).
I'd back Scholes. I haven't seen 100s, but for me, Scholes was class.
You’ve had some lovely players over the years. Always been a fan!
That midfield would have been delicious mate
He never gets the credit he should. He was unplayable during that time.
Bobby Charlton
Bobby Moore
Then probably a lot of players similar or difficult to judge, for example Matthews but played in a weak era. Keegan with two Ballon d’Ors but not obviously better than the likes of Rooney. Kane/Shearer/Greaves all great scorers of their eras. Banks and Shilton two great keepers.
Bobby Moore
Then probably a lot of players similar or difficult to judge, for example Matthews but played in a weak era. Keegan with two Ballon d’Ors but not obviously better than the likes of Rooney. Kane/Shearer/Greaves all great scorers of their eras. Banks and Shilton two great keepers.
David Batty.
Charlton for me.
Matthews was before my time but when younger I worked with many people from both Blackpool and Preston and they had pretty much settled their arguments and arrived at a consensus, that Matthew was the better dribbler, but Tom Finney was the better all-round player. Also even his fans said Matthews was a massively lazy git, which probably explained why he was still playing at a ridiculous age.
Matthews was before my time but when younger I worked with many people from both Blackpool and Preston and they had pretty much settled their arguments and arrived at a consensus, that Matthew was the better dribbler, but Tom Finney was the better all-round player. Also even his fans said Matthews was a massively lazy git, which probably explained why he was still playing at a ridiculous age.
93/94 was Balakov season, 94/95 was Figo season. The Paulo Sousa stuff (he left for Juventus at the end of the season) actually Sousa Cintra "robbed" him from Benfica and later he was forced to pay by FIFA. Worse than that is the game who decided the League was this one.You’ve had some lovely players over the years. Always been a fan!
That midfield would have been delicious mate
And this João Pinto wasn't well known as Figo, Rui Costa, Paulo Sousa, Fernando Couto at International level but he had the game of his life. He made us suffer.
Fair to say Robson at the start of the season wanted us to sign Yekini, the guy who scored the first goal for Nigeria in the 94 WC, he was at Vitoria Setubal then.
Here you can see a duel between Balakov and Yekini in 93 (Robson still was our coach).
Bala goal, how much would this cost this days? Here a compilation of his goals for us.
Porto also had a great player for that 94 Bulgaria team, Kostadinov. But ok, going to stop here because this is about England players, but everytime I remember Balakov brings me good football memories, not for the titles but really for the class the man had.
The best player in the history of England is easily Bobby Charlton. He had everything that a top footballer should like consistency, longevity, skills, and personal accolades. He's also the only English player who participates in every list in the rankings of the top 20. During 1966-1968, Charlton was selected to the top 3 Ballon d'Or 'for 3 consecutive years ( being 1st place in 1966, and second place in 1967 and 1968).
The runner would be Bobby Moore, who is a candidate in the goat defender. Moore is one of the few defenders who finish in the top 3 of the Ballon d'Or. The others would be Stanley Matthews who is known for the oldest Ballon d'Or, Tom Finney, Gordon Banks, Kevin Keegan, Jimmy Graves, Wayne Rooney, Eddy Hapgood, Steven Gerrard, Paul Scholes, Frank Lampard, Jimmy Graves, Bryan Robson, Shilton, Beckham, Gascoigne, Harry Kane, Shearer, John Barnes, Franklin, Cliff Bastin, John Terry, Lofthouse, Billy Walker, Rio Ferdinand, Tommy Lawton, Owen, etc( after Finney, I'm not arranging in order.).
The runner would be Bobby Moore, who is a candidate in the goat defender. Moore is one of the few defenders who finish in the top 3 of the Ballon d'Or. The others would be Stanley Matthews who is known for the oldest Ballon d'Or, Tom Finney, Gordon Banks, Kevin Keegan, Jimmy Graves, Wayne Rooney, Eddy Hapgood, Steven Gerrard, Paul Scholes, Frank Lampard, Jimmy Graves, Bryan Robson, Shilton, Beckham, Gascoigne, Harry Kane, Shearer, John Barnes, Franklin, Cliff Bastin, John Terry, Lofthouse, Billy Walker, Rio Ferdinand, Tommy Lawton, Owen, etc( after Finney, I'm not arranging in order.).
pretty sure the Gerrard shout was a WUM guys
No English players I’d put in contention for all time top 20-30 other than Charlton. We discussed it in another thread, there’s surprisingly little of English world class players around. Few of my mates would say Keegan and Shearer deserve it too.
Never did anything with England, never won a league title. Best English player ever, Gerrard. Jesus!!
Not to disrespect Neville because I thought he was a very good right back, not world class but the tier below.. but surely England have had a world class right back in their history?
Also, Keegan won the Ballon D’or, how good was he compared to the forwards in that list?
You know him better than anyone Kevin, quickly, will he score....
slight pause... YESSS
arghhhh
Epic 15 seconds of audio.
For me, not even close . . . Wayne Rooney is heads and shoulders above any English footballer. Incredible the lack of respect and appreciation for this man.
In terms of trophies, ability and international recognitiong its Charlton. In terms of god tier talent it is and has always been Gazza. Wazza is in the top 3 or 5
In my lifetime it’s Gazza - The italia 90 team was brilliant and Gazza brought that bit of genius. Same again in Euro 96.