Who had the better invincible season: Arsenal or Leverkusen

Who had the better invincible season?

  • Arsenal

    Votes: 5 20.8%
  • Leverkusen

    Votes: 19 79.2%

  • Total voters
    24
Arsenal going unbeaten in the Premier League is miles ahead of Porto and Leverkusen.

Leverkusen had the better season though. It would be mad to suggest otherwise.
 
Has to be Leverkusen.

- Domestic double
- EL final (only loss of the season)
- 1 point away from the Bundesliga total points record
- Same amount of points as Arsenal in 4 fewer games
- To put this into perspective: Leverkusen's PPG is the equivalent of a 100 point season in the PL

Even if you think the PL is more competitive you have to remember that neither us nor Chelsea could break 80 points that season. Both teams were in transition/rebuild.
 
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Arsenal's invincibles* season was just an amazing aesthetic. Doesn't even come in the top 5 title winning overall seasons for me.

*beaten by United in the cup and Chelsea in the CL so not so invincible
 
In a Man United forum its difficult to be objective about a direct rival especially considering how intense the prestige fight was, with Arsenal almost toying with the league with their swashbuckling way of playing - a very French way if I might say so.
The swagger and flair that they had in abundance, and also the steel in that team. They could be gritty which shows up in the number of draws that season.

To be honest a teenage me had my Keegan "I'd love it" moment when we beat them and ended that run, I absolutely hated the guts of that team. They dared to challenge us! United! And I'll forever begrudge them of that Invincibles badge. But yeah, even though their peak wasn't as long as it could've been, they were good. They were very very good.


Now two decades older I could watch Leverkusen in a calm and disassociated way, egging them on and laughing in disbelief as they came back late each time from almost certain defeat to somehow, yet again, fight to live another day.

From Neverkusen to Neverlusen, it was a joy to watch how they schooled the big boys of the league and also in the Europa. Its a shame that they didn't turn up in the final. I also really admire Xabi Alonso, even when he was in Liverpool seemed like a class bloke. A fairytale for someone breaking the Bayern strangehold on the BuLi, and in what underdog style!

So, after waffling on for several paragraphs, I think for me Leverkusen just edges it, but only just.
 
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Don’t get me wrong, Arsenal’s Invincibles is an astonishing achievement. Going undefeated would be common place if it wasn’t.

However, they did draw a shit load of games and finished with only 90 points. That tally has been surpassed on several occasions yet Arsenal’s side somehow get compared with some of those other sides when they just aren’t as good. The achievement has become way overinflated, perhaps because it’s a one off and Arsenal historically have very little ease to really laud over other dominant PL clubs - a few PL titles yet a complete footnote on the European scene. Let’s face it, City’s treble is a greater achievement (obviously United’s too).
 
If league strength is to be taken in to account then Arsenal. If not then Leverkusen and TNS both had unbeaten league seasons topped off with domestic cup wins last year and are among 30 odd unbeaten league seasons in European top flights since Arsenal's.
I don't think league strength for the PL in 2003 was anything too mindblowing.
 
Both excellent, apples and oranges. Don't know what's with the obsession with having to measure everything against each other all the time. Social media to blame probably.
 
Both excellent, apples and oranges. Don't know what's with the obsession with having to measure everything against each other all the time. Social media to blame probably.

I think it's fairly standard football discourse to compare teams, players, managers, achievements etc. Always has been.
 
I think it's fairly standard football discourse to compare teams, players, managers, achievements etc. Always has been.

Just sports in general honestly. We had Messi Vs Ronaldo, Basketball has LeBron Vs Jordan. I imagine curling fanatics probably even have their version.
 
Arsenal got a unique golden PL trophy, Leverkusen got a Thank you note. Levels to this.
 
I'd say Leverkusen because they were almost imperious in Europe as well.

But there's also no getting away from the strength of the league either. Early-to-mid 2000s Premier League was second only to Spain around that time and part of a clear top 3 with Serie A, whereas the Bundesliga, acknowledging a great season last year, is 4th in the coefficient rankings.

Ajax in 1995 would beat them both for me. They were unbeaten in the league (27 wins, 7 draws, 0 losses) and unbeaten in the Champions League (including 3 wins in 3 games against Milan no less) - winning both competitions. Almost a perfect campaign aside from a domestic cup quarter-final loss to Feyenoord in extra time.
I'd go as far to say prem was thr best league overall in that time frame, La Liga definitively took over by 2009 however.
 
If you're talking about the season as a whole and not just the league, it's not much a contest in my mind considering how many games Arsenal actually lost that year (compared to Bayer's 1 loss), and the fact they won 2 titles to Arsenal's one. Arsenal's unbeaten season is a bit overrated overall.

Do you want to share your opinion? :)

Arsenal's of course. The PL is a much harder league than the BL.

It's funny germany being laughed at on the caf, farmers league and all that, but now because it's arsenal, leverkusen's achievement was better.
 
I would go with Leverkusens season and I don't really have any strong negative feelings towards Arsenal.

Going unbeaten in the Premier league is probably a better achievement than going unbeaten in the bundesliga but if you take all comps into account Leverkusen shades it.

If Leverkusen had have won the Europa league it wouldn't even be up for debate IMO.
 
Arsenal's of course. The PL is a much harder league than the BL.

It's funny germany being laughed at on the caf, farmers league and all that, but now because it's arsenal, leverkusen's achievement was better.
You can only play what you play against. We laugh at the German league because Bayern win it 9/10 times. But this was not Bayern OR Dortmund but a team that were 6th the season before.

If Bayern did it then no conversation, it’s Arsenal. But this is a team that have never won the league previously and only lost one game in the whole campaign. With half the amount of draws.

Also remember that German teams did far better than English teams in Europe this season.

It is objectively a more impressive campaign.
 
You can only play what you play against. We laugh at the German league because Bayern win it 9/10 times. But this was not Bayern OR Dortmund but a team that were 6th the season before.

If Bayern did it then no conversation, it’s Arsenal. But this is a team that have never won the league previously and only lost one game in the whole campaign. With half the amount of draws.

Also remember that German teams did far better than English teams in Europe this season.

It is objectively a more impressive campaign.
Yeah, objectively... :lol:
 
Arsenal got a unique golden PL trophy, Leverkusen got a Thank you note. Levels to this.
They all got some cool looking rings as well, actually
 
You can only play what you play against. We laugh at the German league because Bayern win it 9/10 times. But this was not Bayern OR Dortmund but a team that were 6th the season before.

If Bayern did it then no conversation, it’s Arsenal. But this is a team that have never won the league previously and only lost one game in the whole campaign. With half the amount of draws.

Also remember that German teams did far better than English teams in Europe this season.

It is objectively a more impressive campaign.
The question was also "season", which encompasses all competitions. The fact they won 2 trophies, while losing less games and going to the end of all possible competitions makes it rather straightforward for me.
 
Well Arsenal's invincibles won the Quadruple, can't beat that.
 
Arsenal

They beat Ferguson's United. Leverkusen were helped by the Harry Kane curse.
Weird thing is I don't think Arsenal's Invincible's (03-05) ever beat United in a competitive game, save for a cup final on penalties. Remarkable in a way that over the two seasons the results were:

Arsenal wins: 0 (1 FA cup win on penalties)
United wins 4 (two in the league, one league cup tie, one Fa cup semi final)
Draws 3

Unless i'm forgetting an Arsenal win somewhere that's quite amazing really.
 
You literally said it was overrated.
"Literally", I said "Arsenal's unbeaten season is a bit overrated overall"... which it is! The league accomplishment was great, considering they won it and all, but the season itself, considering their results in the other competitions, less so!
 
Yeah, objectively... :lol:
Apart from ‘the English league is harder’ are there any metrics in which the Arsenal season was objectively better? Won fewer games. Lost more games. Drew more games. Won fewer cups. Were one of the best two teams the previous 6 season (which means they were expected to challenge for the league).

What Arsenal did was arguably the pinnacle of English league football. But so was what Leverkusen did and they actually were far closer to being an invincible team. Neither were though.
 
Comparison is the stealer of joy. Why not just say both achievements are amazing and stop comparing two different teams, in two different eras, playing in two different leagues. Winning ANY league unbeaten is a massive achievement, no matter where it happens.
 
"Literally", I said "Arsenal's unbeaten season is a bit overrated overall"... which it is! The league accomplishment was great, considering they won it and all, but the season itself, considering their results in the other competitions, less so!
Isn't saying something is overrated devaluing it?
 
Apart from ‘the English league is harder’ are there any metrics in which the Arsenal season was objectively better? Won fewer games. Lost more games. Drew more games. Won fewer cups. Were one of the best two teams the previous 6 season (which means they were expected to challenge for the league).

What Arsenal did was arguably the pinnacle of English league football. But so was what Leverkusen did and they actually were far closer to being an invincible team. Neither were though.
Well, I guess apart from the most important factor, no I got nothing.
 
Apart from ‘the English league is harder’ are there any metrics in which the Arsenal season was objectively better? Won fewer games. Lost more games. Drew more games. Won fewer cups. Were one of the best two teams the previous 6 season (which means they were expected to challenge for the league).

Were unbeaten across 38 league games instead of 34. That's objectively more difficult to achieve.

Not Leverkusen's fault that they couldn't do it but it doesn't change that.