Who had the better invincible season: Arsenal or Leverkusen
- Thread starter Murder on Zidanes Floor
- Start date
If memes were allowed in the football forum then I'd post the cartoon guy sweating in front of two buttons:
"Shit on Arsenal"
or
"Shit on the Bundesliga"
"Shit on Arsenal"
or
"Shit on the Bundesliga"
FC Porto 2011 - League without defeats, Cup, Supercup, Uefa Europa League
Wow that's an interesting take, tell me more.
They lost twice in the UEFA cup at home to Sevilla and away to Villarreal. But that was it. They still wine everything they could.
Both are better than Arsenal’s.
FC Porto won 2011, 2012, 2013 Leagues with only 1 defeat in all 3. The 2013 title was a nail biter, in the second to last game of the season Porto went to top of league because it scored winning goal at 90+2 minutes game against Benfica
I didn't watch enough of Leverkusen to do a comparison, but I always feel the arsenal invincible season gets way too overinflated.
Don't get me wrong, if we did what they did is be bragging about it too, but when it's really scrutinised I feel it gets overblown.
They drew 12, which is a lot. But how would they be remembered if they drew 11 and lost 1?
Well they were a Pires dive away from that happening.
Winning the league, and they way they played. They are the real achievements and what they should be celebrated for.
Don't get me wrong, if we did what they did is be bragging about it too, but when it's really scrutinised I feel it gets overblown.
They drew 12, which is a lot. But how would they be remembered if they drew 11 and lost 1?
Well they were a Pires dive away from that happening.
Winning the league, and they way they played. They are the real achievements and what they should be celebrated for.
Arsenal’s was shit. Only one trophy, and they lost more games in total in all comps than we did in 98/99.
Leverkusen.
I'd say Leverkusen because they were almost imperious in Europe as well.
But there's also no getting away from the strength of the league either. Early-to-mid 2000s Premier League was second only to Spain around that time and part of a clear top 3 with Serie A, whereas the Bundesliga, acknowledging a great season last year, is 4th in the coefficient rankings.
Ajax in 1995 would beat them both for me. They were unbeaten in the league (27 wins, 7 draws, 0 losses) and unbeaten in the Champions League (including 3 wins in 3 games against Milan no less) - winning both competitions. Almost a perfect campaign aside from a domestic cup quarter-final loss to Feyenoord in extra time.
But there's also no getting away from the strength of the league either. Early-to-mid 2000s Premier League was second only to Spain around that time and part of a clear top 3 with Serie A, whereas the Bundesliga, acknowledging a great season last year, is 4th in the coefficient rankings.
Ajax in 1995 would beat them both for me. They were unbeaten in the league (27 wins, 7 draws, 0 losses) and unbeaten in the Champions League (including 3 wins in 3 games against Milan no less) - winning both competitions. Almost a perfect campaign aside from a domestic cup quarter-final loss to Feyenoord in extra time.
(4th if you look at the five year average but 2nd for the 23/24 season.)
I wonder what the general opinion will be in a man utd forum.
That is basically what Chelsea achieved the following season. Well, a better version because it was 8 draws and 1 loss. That Chelsea team is generally considered one of the best teams in PL history, they just don't have the icing on the cake that Arsenal have with going unbeaten.
Arsenal...
Dived and cheated their way to that unbeaten league season and if I remember correctly still lost more games overall than Utd did during the treble winning season.
Juve and Milan both had unbeaten league seasons in Serie A 91/92 & 2011/2012. Nobody would really say they had a better season than Arsenal.
Porto's 2010/11 season was better as were Ajax in 94/95 and Leverkusen as they won more than 1 trophy.
Dived and cheated their way to that unbeaten league season and if I remember correctly still lost more games overall than Utd did during the treble winning season.
Juve and Milan both had unbeaten league seasons in Serie A 91/92 & 2011/2012. Nobody would really say they had a better season than Arsenal.
Porto's 2010/11 season was better as were Ajax in 94/95 and Leverkusen as they won more than 1 trophy.
Arsenal wouldn’t have gone unbeaten if VAR had existed then. If you have to cheat to maintain it does it really count? Well yes. It’s still impressive in the same way a doping 100m runner is still fast, I’ll give them that. Arsenal doesn’t really have a whole lot else to crow about such as European cups so I think their fans need this season to cling to the same way us United fans always cling to our treble. I’ll take ‘99 over an unbeaten season any day.
I know which button I’m mashing. And without a drop of sweat on me.
Leverkusen almost did it in every competition...
Arsenal didn't even get to a final of another competition...
The only slight thing going against Leverkusen for me is how convincingly they were beaten by Atalanta in the EL final.
Arsenal didn't even get to a final of another competition...
The only slight thing going against Leverkusen for me is how convincingly they were beaten by Atalanta in the EL final.
Always found the "invincibles" tag for Arsenal a bit hollow considering they drew around a 3rd of their PL games that season.
It's obviously an achievement but there's a lot of seasons where the 90 points they amassed wouldn't have won them the PL.
It's obviously an achievement but there's a lot of seasons where the 90 points they amassed wouldn't have won them the PL.
Yes but they aren't exactly a stalwart of success in that league, so the co-efficient doesn't really mean anything here.
Leverkusen.
Leverkusen by a mile. They were one game away from a treble. Arsenal had 12 draws in the league alone and won nothing else.
To be fair, if VAR existed you probably wouldn't have stopped the run at 49 undefeated either, but that a different subject for a different day.
????90 points would bag you a league title in almost 90 percent of the seasons. Not sure what youre on about
I believe it was Evra who said, after United went unbeaten for a very long time but with plenty of draws, that he would rather lose one so they could get rid of that ghost and start winning more. There is an element of truth to that.
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Leverkusen.
Nothing wrong with 90 points, they deserved the league that year. Just isn’t as good as Leverkusen’s season.
Arsenal really should have gone on and won the UCL that season. They'd have beaten the remaining teams
Chelsea also conceded only 15 goals that season. That’s about a goal every 2.5 games.
Arsenal had a lot of defeats for an undefeated season and then drew a third of their league games. 12 in total.
For context, most PL winning teams around the same era were drawing 5-6 games. You have to go all the way to 2011 to find a team even close to 12, which was United with 11, who got criticised all season for drawing too many games. Chelsea won the league the season after Arsenal with 8 draws and 1 defeat, so Arsenal would technically have finished 2nd. Unitted won more league games a few years later whilst also winning a champions league.
The whole invincibles thing with Arsenal is the most over celebrated achievement in football. I also wouldn't overlook that one of the main things that Arsenal team were pioneers of was the constant throwing themselves on the floor and feigning injury on every challenge or opportunity which is now common place in the PL. Jose would have brought that all with him anyway but Arsenal were ahead of the curve.
For context, most PL winning teams around the same era were drawing 5-6 games. You have to go all the way to 2011 to find a team even close to 12, which was United with 11, who got criticised all season for drawing too many games. Chelsea won the league the season after Arsenal with 8 draws and 1 defeat, so Arsenal would technically have finished 2nd. Unitted won more league games a few years later whilst also winning a champions league.
The whole invincibles thing with Arsenal is the most over celebrated achievement in football. I also wouldn't overlook that one of the main things that Arsenal team were pioneers of was the constant throwing themselves on the floor and feigning injury on every challenge or opportunity which is now common place in the PL. Jose would have brought that all with him anyway but Arsenal were ahead of the curve.
Leverkusen
Leverkusen
Thierry Henry Made Arsenal so watchable and likeable, he was the Only reason I wanted to watch them, he was that good, So for that I'll say Arsenal.
There was nothing likeable about the 2004 Arsenal mould of Martin Keown, whereas Henry proved himself duplicitous.
Despite such, between Arsenal and Leverkusen, I'm going with Perugia.
Tough one. Leverkusen's achievement is really impressive considering the size of the club and Bayern's dominance.
Arsenal's achievement was fantastic but I always find their claim to be one of the greatest sides of all time to be quite silly, especially the idea they were the best league side ever seen. Did nothing in Europe, didn't retain their title, one league trophy and then an FA cup the season after- it's hardly equal to United's Treble or 08 side, the recent City teams or Jose's monstrous first Chelsea team. Heck even Arsenal 98 have a claim to be better being so close to a double double.
Arsenal's achievement was fantastic but I always find their claim to be one of the greatest sides of all time to be quite silly, especially the idea they were the best league side ever seen. Did nothing in Europe, didn't retain their title, one league trophy and then an FA cup the season after- it's hardly equal to United's Treble or 08 side, the recent City teams or Jose's monstrous first Chelsea team. Heck even Arsenal 98 have a claim to be better being so close to a double double.
If league strength is to be taken in to account then Arsenal. If not then Leverkusen and TNS both had unbeaten league seasons topped off with domestic cup wins last year and are among 30 odd unbeaten league seasons in European top flights since Arsenal's.
On paper with the squad Arsenal had, it would be them, but realistically, Leverkusen did well in all competitions compared to Arsenal.
Arsenal
They beat Ferguson's United. Leverkusen were helped by the Harry Kane curse.
They beat Ferguson's United. Leverkusen were helped by the Harry Kane curse.
If you're talking about the season as a whole and not just the league, it's not much a contest in my mind considering how many games Arsenal actually lost that year (compared to Bayer's 1 loss), and the fact they won 2 titles to Arsenal's one. Arsenal's unbeaten season is a bit overrated overall.
Do you want to share your opinion?
To be fair, if VAR existed you probably wouldn't have stopped the run at 49 undefeated either, but that a different subject for a different day.
Wouldn’t VAR would have prevented you getting as far as 49? Was the infamous Pires dive not part of that undefeated run?