Which band epitomises best the city of Manchester?

[Gazza]

Thank you for that post. I'll try to inform myself on Tony Wilson then.


To be honest with you, the only thing I know pertaining to New Order is they are the "smaller" sequel of Joy Division, thus I reckoned the presence of the latter encompasses both.


The only New Order song I know is Blue Monday. Which are their classics in your opinion ?

The first two songs New Order recorded (Ceremony and In a Lonely Place) were written by Joy Division, so check those out.

New Order's music isn't like Joy Division's at all, but obviously some of the elements, like Hooky's bass, the combination of guitar and synthesizers, remain constant. Substance is a good compilation to start with, they have quite a large and varied back catalogue so if you like any tracks from that album you'll get an idea which period to look into.

 

[Spoony]

It always surprises me how New Order never really figure into these sort of discussions. They seem to be underrated in British music in general, but I assumed they'd get a fair amount of respect in their own region for what they gave back to the city.

I'm not from Manchester so I won't make any claims, but from what I've seen and heard, Factory and the Hacienda pretty much was the Manchester music scene for a period. I associate Tony Wilson with the image of Manchester as a creative, innovative, resurgent city. To me New Order were the most developed of all the bands mentioned and had that arrogance and mystique. Perhaps the fact that they went on so long and released a lot of mediocre stuff whereas the Roses and Smiths came and went so quickly contributes to that, but for me some of New Order's singles and albums were unique and timeless.

And that's even before you add in what they achieved in Joy Division.

The likes of Joy Division and The Smiths did sum up the 80's. But for me The Roses represented Manchester and the Mancunian spirit. By this I mean, the confident, bittersweet and never say did attitude of Manchester and it's people was personified by Stone Roses. It's fair to say the city has risen like a firebird. . . the leaders have faught tooth and nail for the BBC move and the Metro extension despite many knock backs. Other cities would've wallowed in self pity, but that's never been the case here. Also Keano once said that Manchester United has a fighting Mancunian spirit and it was all down to the local core in the squad. The team shared the same ethos as the city. So basically, like Ian Brown the city has a lot of front and attitude but it's a great place and like Mr Brown it also believes in its own hype!

The Roses were brilliant, though, it has to be said. Bittersweet uplifting music.

 

[nemanja nemagic]

Badly Drawn Boy is from Bolton, so we can rule him out.

From really really recent years, the doves have to be in with a shout

 

[Wibble]

You know I dont think I have ever heard anyone be so critical of them - there must some deep psychological reason for your intense hatred!

Nah. I find their music a bland irrelevance. And I'm pretty sure I walked out of the hacienda in the mid eighties when they were playing because they were so rubbish - painfully so and the concert footage in their height doesn't suggest they got thst much better.

I agree completely and even if you dont like the music, you should still be able to recognise that their fusion of indie and rave was hugely innovative at the time plus they basically invented 'Brit pop'.

I can't stand rave and I don't like Brit Pop that much TBH.

And you are right about the Madchester thing. Far from being innovative I think it marked the end of the brilliant manchester music scene of the 80's and did a great deal to destroy Manchester's musical reputation and musically the city hasn't been special ever since.

 

[Wibble]

His tuneless singing actully sets my teeth on edge. How can one person hit so many bum notes? Even random chance would mean he was in tune occasionally.

 

[Wibble]

Thank you for that post. I'll try to inform myself on Tony Wilson then.


To be honest with you, the only thing I know pertaining to New Order is they are the "smaller" sequel of Joy Division, thus I reckoned the presence of the latter encompasses both.


The only New Order song I know is Blue Monday. Which are their classics in your opinion ?

New Order produced far more and far better quality music than Joy Division. Love them to bits though I do Joy Division were only around a short time and only produced relatively few (highly) memorable tracks. Their production was truly woeful although that may be part of their charm.

 

[Bury Red]

1987 was their first tour Wibbs shortly after they'd released Sally Cinnamon, I saw them in Portsmouth when I was at Uni there and ended up in verbals with Ian Brown at their rehearsal before having a beer with them when he twigged that I was a fellow Manc. They will have played a few gigs around town prior to that including the Hac, but before Sally Cinnamon they were a much more shambolic sounding almost punk outfit not unlike Magazine.

Their gigs were never really about crystal clear performances though but about the whole atmosphere, much as I'd imagine the Pistols or Buzzcocks first performances with Howard DeVoto at the Free Trade Hall were. It's all a generation thing and maybe you're just a couple of years too old for the Roses/Mondays scene Wibbs as in its infancy it drew from exactly the same sort of shambolic energy and vibrancy that the bands you list did.

I saw the Roses a few more times around smaller clubs in Brum before they started with the big stadium gigs, the last one I went to was at Ally Pally where it seemed that the whole thing had grown too big and was in danger of disappearing up its own arsehole.

If I had to pick an artist who epitomises Manchester for me, I'd have to say I Am Kloot clinch it for me at present. Just the accent, humour and lyrics which seem to sum up Manchester for me.

 

[Wibble]

I don't really care and I am just amazed they are so popular and can even be mentioned in the same breath as the Smith. I have been told that the band I walked out on were them in 84/85 but I have no clear memory of who they were other than the utter shitness of them so it could be another band quite easily. I did think they formed in 83/84 mind.

That fecking scene brought the Hacienda down if nothing else

Wilson was both a genius, a fool and an utter cocktard all rolled into one.

 

[Wibble]

removed because it looked like I was laughing at what you said which I wasn't *

* any more than usual

 

[Bury Red]

That was the beauty of Anthony H, even when he was right he was a cnut and was never ashamed to admit it.

It wasn't the Roses that brought the Hac down though, even if you can loosely tie them into it with their fusion of house and rock and the drugs scene that begun to flourish at the Hac. It was the hardore house nights with the likes of Mike Pickering DJing that were surrounded by trouble and they certainly weren't playing any Roses or Mondays on those nights sticking mainly to Italian piano driven house and the likes. I'm sure the likes of the Roses and the Modays were in there on those nights but they weren't the ones brandishing uzis outside.

 

[Wibble]

Italian piano driven house?

Kinell

Shame they couldn't have used the Uzi's on the Happy Mondays.

 

[Bury Red]

Italian piano driven house?

Kinell

Shame they couldn't have used the Uzi's on the Happy Mondays.

Mike Pickering at the time was an insufferable music snob, weird considering his eclectic musical roots, but at the time the Hac went down the pan Italo House from the likes of Capella dominated what he was playing and influenced the likes of Black Box and his own creation M People. To be fair some of the high energy piano stuff was pretty good when they steered clear of the screamed vocals or gibberish lyrics. The only decent night at the Hac in its final years was Thursdays when Dave Haslam played a much more varied mix which encompassed house right through the Roses and Mondays and into the Pixies, Spiritualized etc. It was that scene that put the place back on the map but the trouble around the house nights was already ingrained.

 

[jdmufc]

Mike Pickering at the time was an insufferable music snob, weird considering his eclectic musical roots, but at the time the Hac went down the pan Italo House from the likes of Capella dominated what he was playing and influenced the likes of Black Box and his own creation M People. To be fair some of the high energy piano stuff was pretty good when they steered clear of the screamed vocals or gibberish lyrics. The only decent night at the Hac in its final years was Thursdays when Dave Haslam played a much more varied mix which encompassed house right through the Roses and Mondays and into the Pixies, Spiritualized etc. It was that scene that put the place back on the map but the trouble around the house nights was already ingrained.

oh,i dont know.....some of graeme parks nights were amazing!!

 

[Rood]

I can't stand rave and I don't like Brit Pop that much TBH.

And you are right about the Madchester thing. Far from being innovative I think it marked the end of the brilliant manchester music scene of the 80's and did a great deal to destroy Manchester's musical reputation and musically the city hasn't been special ever since.

Well that explains a lot - you were a big fan of the what came before the Madchester era and wasnt happy when the scene changed to the new innovative sound. Those pesky kids eh?

Musically, Manchester will always be special!

 

[Rood]

Wilson was both a genius, a fool and an utter cocktard all rolled into one.

It's funny because it's true - a Manchester legend either way!

 

[Wibble]

Well that explains a lot - you were a big fan of the what came before the Madchester era and wasnt happy when the scene changed to the new innovative sound. Those pesky kids eh?

Musically, Manchester will always be special!

I like lots of music that has come since as well but that particular section was dire.

 

[Bury Red]

I like lots of music that has come since as well but that particular section was dire.

Aye but that scene came around the point you hit your mid life crisis didn't it Wibbs? I suspect that explains your dislike and then as you've mellowed your old age and your hearings begun failing it means you now think you appreciate all these new young bands again

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Whenever I think of the Roses I immediately equate them with Manchester. Think it may have a lot to do with Ian Brown and Mani but the music itself just makes me think of Manchester.

However personally I've always had a preference for Joy Division, Closer is one of my favorite albums.

 

[Wibble]

Aye but that scene came around the point you hit your mid life crisis didn't it Wibbs? I suspect that explains your dislike and then as you've mellowed your old age and your hearings begun failing it means you now think you appreciate all these new young bands again

How fecking old do you think I am?

Don't answer that.

 

[Man Utd Mrs]

Thank you for that post. I'll try to inform myself on Tony Wilson then.


To be honest with you, the only thing I know pertaining to New Order is they are the "smaller" sequel of Joy Division, thus I reckoned the presence of the latter encompasses both.


The only New Order song I know is Blue Monday. Which are their classics in your opinion ?

I like "Vanishing Point" , "Thieves like us", "True Faith" , "Ceremony" and "Procession" personally.

 

[Nani Nana]

I like "Vanishing Point" , "Thieves like us", "True Faith" , "Ceremony" and "Procession" personally.

They are great, especially Ceremony.


It is a bit psychedelic like the Stone Roses. Guess that settles the matter as to which music imparts the spirit of Manchester.

 

[Rood]

Eventhough i voted for them, Im actually quite suprised at how much the Roses won this by - perhaps Wibble galvanised everyone to vote

 

[Wibble]

I thank you *

* I actually fiddled the vote to make you all feel good. The Smith actually won by a landslide**
** possibly not true

 

[mexos]

I don't like 10CC













.. I love 'em

 

[Rood]

These mods and their shamless vote rigging is getting a bit out of hand now - a serious abuse of power !

 

[Nani Nana]

It ruins the poll indeed but the thread was quite neglected anyway.

 

[Wibble]

Don't worry. I remembered what I added.

I'm not going to change it back mind.

 

[Legend16]

Elbow or Doves not make it into the poll? Both formed in Manchester weren't they?

for my money Elbow. intelligent lyrics delivered in a deadpan style

but I grew up with the Smiths and then the roses. love the smiths. roses had the greatest debut album of all time.

guess it has to be the roses