Where will the goals come from?

Giggsy13 said:
Could be Hojlund if he got the service he needed from our wingers who seem incapable of putting in a decent pass or cross.
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People will argue that he got service yesterday, yes, like once. The problem is that even the best forwards chance conversion rate is pretty poor, yes even Kane and Haaland's, but they usually get a lot of chances a game so it evens out. We're basically asking this 20 year old kid to carry the burden of winning matches for us on the 1-2 chances created for him a match, if that, and for his chance conversion rate to be unprecedentally high, otherwise he's just another Weghorst according to some on here. Should he have scored that chance yesterday? Yes he should have, but he should also have many more chances in the match to try make up for it, but never did. He also should have had an assist himself.

If you're basing youre entire match and rating of him on one chance early on in the game then you've failed i'm sorry, we should be making way more chances for Hojlund than that
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
A more experienced striker may have been a better option (if available for the price we‘d pay) but I think the issue is we’re not creating much and not playing to Hojlunds strengths.

His pace and movement … we should be playing through balls behind the back line or early crosses. We’ve got selfish and one footed wide players.

As much as I don’t rate Antony, I’d be interested to see him play left (if Garnacho not available).
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We are clearly not playing to Hojlund’s strengths, but a fundamental reason that’s the case is that ETH relies on inverted wingers to create carve out chances for themselves. Antony, who is benched for now but is the manager’s marquee buy, is not a passer of the ball. He fancies himself a finisher, hardly anything more. Rashford is who he is, not a passer and to be honest not an incredible finisher. Rasmus is starved for service because ETH plays wingers who mindset is to look for the shot first, pass second…but their passing range is virtually nonexistent:

I don’t know how to solve this other than restructuring the squad, but all of us agree that restructuring the squad around Rasmus would be risky. The short term answer is that Rasmus needs to learn how to create his own chances, which is in fact what separates the great strikers from the good strikers.
 
lex talionis said:
We are clearly not playing to Hojlund’s strengths, but a fundamental reason that’s the case is that ETH relies on inverted wingers to create carve out chances for themselves. Antony, who is benched for now but is the manager’s marquee buy, is not a passer of the ball. He fancies himself a finisher, hardly anything more. Rashford is who he is, not a passer and to be honest not an incredible finisher. Rasmus is starved for service because ETH plays wingers who mindset is to look for the shot first, pass second…but their passing range is virtually nonexistent:

I don’t know how to solve this other than restructuring the squad, but all of us agree that restructuring the squad around Rasmus would be risky. The short term answer is that Rasmus needs to learn how to create his own chances, which is in fact what separates the great strikers from the good strikers.
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That’s why part of me would like to try Antony left but in a ‘traditional’ 433 with clear instructions on what to do… get down the line and cross. It’s all well and good Ten Hag having a favoured system and if he has the players, ok… but you’ve got to maximise your better players/their attributes?
 
lex talionis said:
We are clearly not playing to Hojlund’s strengths, but a fundamental reason that’s the case is that ETH relies on inverted wingers to create carve out chances for themselves. Antony, who is benched for now but is the manager’s marquee buy, is not a passer of the ball. He fancies himself a finisher, hardly anything more. Rashford is who he is, not a passer and to be honest not an incredible finisher. Rasmus is starved for service because ETH plays wingers who mindset is to look for the shot first, pass second…but their passing range is virtually nonexistent:

I don’t know how to solve this other than restructuring the squad, but all of us agree that restructuring the squad around Rasmus would be risky. The short term answer is that Rasmus needs to learn how to create his own chances, which is in fact what separates the great strikers from the good strikers.
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Very much agree. Look at the type of players City field. Pretty much everyone between the defence and Haaland are hard-working players who always look to play their teammates good. All their attack-minded players have good vision ane passing ability.
 
antsmithmk said:
Big problem with Rashford is he isn't a winger. He's best played as an old fashioned inside left forward.
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I agree. Brings up the old issues that we have dealt with for several years on the imbalance in the squad and a disconnect between what the manager is trying to implement and whether he has the players for it. Jose was the first to identify the issues with our wingers, as it prevented Lukaku from being the focal point. That’s why he was so adamant in selling martial and bringing in Perisic. 6 years later same problem. Hojlund could and should be the focal point of our attack but he can’t get the service from his wingers who don’t fit the traditional mould. It’s a shame that Sancho can’t get out of his own way, he could be the winger that Hojlund needs.
 
Hojlund yes had a couple chances yesterday but he seemed surprised that they were coming to him and it’s understandable when the service is so inconsistent. Our strikers throughout the years knew if for example Beckham got the ball it was one touch and cross if giggsy or Irwin had ball they went to the byline to cross if it was Scholes run the channels they knew when to time their runs. We have had ibrahimovic Cavani ronaldo three of the best strikers in last decade and they never hit the heights they are used too it’s not a coincidence.
 
We need to create more, it's as simple as that. No strikers or forwards score at the conversion rate that would be neccessary to score bucket loads in this team. I honestly don't even think Haaland or Kane would be scoring anywhere close to what would be normal or expected for them. They'd obviously help but not to a rate that would turn us from mediocre into anything more than top 4 challengers. You'd have to do something that statistically is very unlikely in order to propel us to where we thought we might be (a substantial improvement on last season). Then you throw in that we have a striker learning his trade and it starts to make sense.

The likes of Bruno, Rashford, Antony, our midfielders, our fullbacks overlapping - they all need to pull their finger out. The coaching has to get more out of them to allow that to happen as well. I wouldn't be putting too much emphasis on a 20 year old getting the odd chance here and there as the reason for our problems. If we created more for him he'd be getting the benefit of the doubt more often, he'd score some, he'd miss plenty, he'll be inconsistent but he'd have a heck of a better chance then the odd one per game.
 
Wolves, Nottingham and Everton are out scoring us its a disgrace. You can point at the players all you want but there’s something wrong with the tactics.
 
MiracleInMadrid said:
Very much agree. Look at the type of players City field. Pretty much everyone between the defence and Haaland are hard-working players who always look to play their teammates good. All their attack-minded players have good vision ane passing ability.
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The bind that club management have put us in is that the marquee players who are expected to provide the scoring, our wide forwards, just aren't that skilled at that very function. We all acknowledge that Rashford scored 17 goals in the PL last season but that the was outlier, not his norm. And he's not much of a creator. Antony is neither a scorer nor a creator. It's not clear that he's very good at anything other than defending high up the pitch.

In order to move forward as a club which does in fact compete for major trophies we will have to upgrade at the LW and RW positions while Rasmus develops into a top striker, which I have no doubt he is capable of if given the proper environment.
 
Since the start of last season, in the league we've only scored 2 goals in the opening 30 minutes of a game once (vs. Forest at home last season)

In fact we've only scored 2 goals in the first half of a game four times - four times in 50 games! That's shockingly shit.
 
Was looking at the table following the penalty, and something troubling despite us being only 6 points being Arsenal.

As of now (thanks Martial), 10 sides have scored goals than us in the league.

Of all the sides we're competing with for a top 4 place, we've scored 9 less goals than the side with the lowest goals, Tottenham

We are on pace for 47 goals. I'm sure we scored more in every season since coming up from the lower division.

This is not sustainable. Something needs to change or we'll lose too many games to stay in the European spots.
 
adexkola said:
Was looking at the table following the penalty, and something troubling despite us being only 6 points being Arsenal.

As of now (thanks Martial), 10 sides have scored goals than us in the league.

Of all the sides we're competing with for a top 4 place, we've scored 9 less goals than the side with the lowest goals, Tottenham

We are on pace for 47 goals. I'm sure we scored more in every season since coming up from the lower division.

This is not sustainable. Something needs to change or we'll lose too many games to stay in the European spots.
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Well...

We do have a striker that can stick the ball in the back of the net comfortably, on loan in Spain. Failing that, maybe Ivan Toney? Yet another stop gap though.
 
adexkola said:
Was looking at the table following the penalty, and something troubling despite us being only 6 points being Arsenal.

As of now (thanks Martial), 10 sides have scored goals than us in the league.

Of all the sides we're competing with for a top 4 place, we've scored 9 less goals than the side with the lowest goals, Tottenham

We are on pace for 47 goals. I'm sure we scored more in every season since coming up from the lower division.

This is not sustainable. Something needs to change or we'll lose too many games to stay in the European spots.
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You've just noticed? It's what will ultimately be our downfall despite the defensive injuries. We don't create anything.
 
Assuming we don't concede a couple late on... this would be our first league win of the season with more than a one-goal margin.
 
Suv666 said:
Wolves, Nottingham and Everton are out scoring us its a disgrace. You can point at the players all you want but there’s something wrong with the tactics.
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Totally agree we don’t spend enough time on the training fields setting attacking patterns from all areas of the pitch!

We are far too predictable with overlapping wingers we have very few runs from midfield and our strikers generally are inept, they need 4 or 5 chances to score and as a team we barely create 7-8 ?
 
Is it true we're the top scorers in the CL this season? That's crazy.
 
tentan said:
Is it true we're the top scorers in the CL this season? That's crazy.
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In Europe, United's attacking play has been compared to the allies relentless assault.

At home it's Dad's Army.

We've nearly scored as many in 5 CL games as we have in 13 league games :lol:
 
tentan said:
Is it true we're the top scorers in the CL this season? That's crazy.
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No, we are 5th. Not bad but its impressive we are in last place with 12 goals. Its Probably the first time in history
 
It seems like we win or struggle to win games if we score 3 goals.

We can't score a lot of goals without letting as many or more in. Cant be aggressive without being defensively weak.


The best wins will be those exciting 1-0 wins.
 
Only five teams in the league have scored fewer goals than us, and three of those are in the relegation spots.

We aren’t scoring enough goals to justify being so open in games. The forwards just don’t score enough goals.
 
It's not been only this season problem, it's been happening since LVG we just don't score enough. It's the players, it's the manager, it's the tactics, its bad luck I don't know but we simply don't score enough, even against weak opposition. We finish with a very poor goal difference season after season with teams lower in the table having a significantly better goal difference.
 
Just did a shot number comparison of central strikers in all our league games where both sides went with 1 up top. Tried to include subs and player position changes too where applicable. We're not creating chances for Hojlund, Martial or whoever.

Obviously everyone can see that, but I like numbers! A lot of it is on the player who plays there, a lot down to the system or coaching. Maybe this is acceptable to Ten Hag as a trade off for how he wants his #9 to play but I think we need to be doing better.

Solanke outshot Martial/Hojlund 5/2
Jackson outshot Hojlund/Rashford 2/1
Isak outshot Martial/Hojlund 3/1
Calvert Lewin outshot Martial/Rashford 5/1
Morris was outshot by Martial 2/3
Muniz/Vinicius outshot Hojlund/Martial 2/1
Haaland outshot Hojlund/Martial 4/1
Mateta outshot Hojlund 3/0
Amdouni/Rodriguez outshot Hojlund 3/2
Nketiah/Jesus had as many shots as Martial/Hojlund 2/2
Awoniyi/Wood outshot Martial/Sancho 3/1
Richarlison/Son were outshot by Rashford/Martial 0/3

12 matches where both side have gone with a 1 up top formation. Opponent's #9 outshot ours in 9 of them, 1 tie.

Total shot count from #9's in these matches = Us 18, Opponents 34.

Maybe xG would be better? Might do that next.
 
The concept of "creating chances for a striker" is somewhat of an illusion. Yes of course a striker does require a proper diet of passes that lead to chances, but the great strikers make their own chances through individual brilliance, anticipation and bullying of defenders to loose balls. Very few strikers at the age of 20 have perfected the art of creating something out of nothing and it's a criminal indictment of United management that we have on the roster a striker who can't be bothered (Martial) and another striker who was at least 1 and probably more like 2 seasons away from being a 15 PL striker.

So where will the goals come from? They won't.
 
Haaland has 50 shots with 14 goals in the league
Hojlund has 12 shots with 0 goals in the league

He's getting nowhere near the amount of service that other forwards get. Hojlund has that amount of shots for us, or plays for City, and he would have goals, but he's never got the ball in advantagous shooting positions because our players would rather shoot themselves, like Dalot did today, or try stupid hollywood passes and such that never come off.
 
16 games, 18 goals.

McTominay 5
Bruno 3
Rashford 2
Eight players with 1.

Our strikers:
Martial 1
Hojlund 0
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
We don't great enough for our central forward. Instead all key passes tend to go to trigger happy wide forwards who are as accurate as a blind archer in an archery tournament. No wonder our goal rate is pathetic
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100%
We could have Van Nistelrooy Aguero or Haaland up front and struggle to get goals. The crosses or passes rarely come and when they do the runs haven’t been made cause they aren’t expected due to service being so erratic.

shows how good Ronaldo actually is to get 24 goals in his last season.
 
At the beginning of the season I said we needed to sign 2 strikers. To make things worse we prioritised signing players other positions when we only had Martial as a CF.

To spend £70m on a young CF when we had no experienced forward is terrible planning. To waste £55m on a luxury signing like Mount, which we didn’t need, was plain stupid. To spend £50m on a goalkeeper that was available on a free the previous summer is insanity. People making these decisions need to be sacked because they’re bankrupting the club at the same time.
 
The club should be doing everything in they're power to offload the rotten trio of Rashford, Sancho and Martial. Then bring in a brand new front 3 (selected by an experienced sporting director, not Ten Hag)

But without that, I don't see us making 50 league goals this season. Our attack is horrid
 
frostbite said:
16 games, 18 goals.

McTominay 5
Bruno 3
Rashford 2
Eight players with 1.

Our strikers:
Martial 1
Hojlund 0
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We are three games away from half the season and the next game is Liverpool so nothing is likely to increase. So in an illogical prediction we could finish the season with something like:

McTominay 10
Bruno 6
Rashford 4
Few players with 2
Few players with 1
 
You lose Rashford’s 30 goals from the previous season + your big money summer CF signing hasn’t scored a league goal by mid December + you are still starting a non goal scoring CF threat 5 years past his sell by date = the current decrepit state of MUFC goals/attempts in the league.
 
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