Fred/10
Where should Fred be rated on a world scale in his primary role of midfield runner/harasser?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
It's stereotyping, but I feel he will be one of those ageless energizer bunny Brazilians in the mould of Cafu and Serginho
He is exceptionally good at getting his foot in and harassing opposition players
He is exceptionally good at getting his foot in and harassing opposition players
Close to the top. Very close to the top.
He is one of a kind. Can't think of many midfielders like him
Mob mentality is almost inevitable. One person gets shat on and everyone else feels some compulsion to join in.
Nights like tonight are why city were also after him and why he starts for Brazil over Fabinho. It’s not his fault he was held back and then used all wrong at the start of his time here. He’s been one of the only players to really give a shit over the bad years. A tonic to watching Pogba faff about
I love to see him do well. He’s been great far more often than he’s been bad.
I love to see him do well. He’s been great far more often than he’s been bad.
After today's performance I hope you're taking that back
I think there must be someone out there who is more consistent at being Fred than he is.
On his day a great workhorse who runs around and competes for the ball with the occasional goal this season. The problem is that day doesnt come around often enough. And its obviously really stupid to try and rate him without the parts that he tends to be weak and let down his performances. Which is he is usually like jelly when pressed. Today was one of the good days and he wasnt wobbly when pressed so more performances like that going forward please
He had a brilliant second half. But two weeks ago against Leeds at Old Trafford was possibly one of the worst midfield performances by any united player in decades. How hes been rated in world top 10 here is mind boggling. Credit to the guy tonight, but not getting carried away.
Because nobody as far as I'm aware is compiling a depth of stats about losing the ball from pressing, not tracking back their runner who gets a shot at goal, poorly executed passes going straight to the opposition 35 yards from their own goal etc
Its just kind of assumed that you're watching the players and see which ones are error prone and messing up a lot, like Fred has. While Kante has never been known for that
Absolute workhorse, he was phenomenal today. I love him
Should be made to go to Llandudno Pier and say it to his face
I get your point but Kante does make errors as well it’s just Fred’s get highlighted way more.
Issue with Fred is when he gets under pressure or plays out of position he can make some really, really weird errors that a footballer his level shouldn’t be making but social media just takes that to another level.
Same happened with Fellaini. He was an alright squad player who even won us games but got ridiculed to no end
I don't how to rate Fred as a midfield harasser, but what I can say is that he is an important player in the squad, the kind of footballer every club which aspires to lift major trophies must have.
Fred has to play high up the pitch, he is by no means a ball carrier. Watching him play higher up the pitch reminds me of his shaktar days.
Depends which Fred turns up.
I've seen some of the very worst, and very best, midfield performances from him.
I've seen some of the very worst, and very best, midfield performances from him.
Maybe it's just impossible to keep doing what Fred does perfectly well every time. He's not Busquets kind of player, that gets everything right because of positioning, perfect first touch etc. He just does everything at ultra speed so there will be situations it doesn't come off.
Genuinely such a confusing player. Mediocrity to Socrates in the space of 20 minutes
Glad we have him though, his overall level is certainly decent and he's got fire in him
Glad we have him though, his overall level is certainly decent and he's got fire in him
Unsurprisingly that was one of the only games this season where he played as the deepest midfielder again. So isn't really relevant to the topic in this thread.
Since being moved into the more aggressive role that he's always been most suited for, Fred was probably our best player in the second half of last season and (other than a poor first month) has been good most of this season. Before that he was almost always being played out of position as our deepest midfielder.
THIS is what we should aim for from a "squad player".
So many throw the term around for absolute shite players that try hard and just say "ah well he can do a job as a squad player" but Fred is a genuinely elite squad player in that he can add dynamics in certain matches that other players can't. He's not good enough to start every week in an elite midfield, but he's certainly good enough to be an important player in a great squad.
So many throw the term around for absolute shite players that try hard and just say "ah well he can do a job as a squad player" but Fred is a genuinely elite squad player in that he can add dynamics in certain matches that other players can't. He's not good enough to start every week in an elite midfield, but he's certainly good enough to be an important player in a great squad.
Honestly that's more because we didn't have a single option in midfield besides him and Sabitzer, not because ETH thinks he's actually a DM.
Yep. ETH seemed to see that mistake and fixed it for future use, as in the following two matches that the two of them played together Sabitzer was the one who tended to drop a bit deeper.
Whenever the ball comes to Fred, the gods flip a coin. 
6. doesn’t possess composure, vision and passing to be first XI. I.e. can’t replace Eriksen.
Strange player. Capable of anything, from the terrible to the sublime
I accept that a deep lying role isnt suited to him But he had a 67% passing accuracy that game. Thats nothing to do with the position you play in. No world class midfielder has stats like that
He was abysmal in that game. I agree that we shouldn’t make weak excuses. That was an unacceptable display.
Last night Fred was ridiculously good. As a midfield harrier he has always been exceptional but at a big club you can’t live on that alone - see Awb and his brilliant one on one defending. But against Barcelona he displayed his complete skill set and was excellent on the ball too.
It’s weird because he does have everything in his locker. He had go on a dribble, he can score, he can pass it well - he just can’t do it consistently and hence oscillates between poor to brilliant presumably because he lacks composure or something
He is a Lingard upgrade.
He is better at Lingarding than Lingard was, but is not very good at Eriksening
He is better at Lingarding than Lingard was, but is not very good at Eriksening
He was brilliant last night, he got my man of match vote. But that cant gloss over some absolutely shocking performances. I hope he kicks on from this, hes a likeable lad and his effort is unquestionable. My original point was about him being considered top 10 in the world in this thread. Hes not.
Problem is, you've ignored the premise of the thread to state what we already know; can you name the 10 players you have over Fred as high-press and pressurising runners/disruptors?
Honest question too because I don't know who is out there pulling up trees in the role since not really following the broader strokes of the game anymore.
I doubt there are that many better than him. But like I said playing that role doesn’t just mean performing that one task. I don’t think there are 5 let alone 10 better one on one defenders than AwB but that doesn’t mean he’s good enough for us.
Fred is good enough as a squad player as in terms of talent he actually has got a lot of tools. He just doesn’t use them consistently well or lacks the composure to.
Either way he was brilliant yesterday and has shown a lot of improvement over the course of the season.
You’d be shocked at how frequently Casemiro has had stats like that, this very season.
We cannot replace him. We cannot
Yeah, the enigma that is Fred's inconsistency as an actual footballer is an issue, but a separate one, I think - deployed right up on the opposition and doing his 'thing', Fred is one of the first names on the teamsheet and I think what he does has more weight and impact than AWB at base ends.
Terrorising really top/highly rated players is truly worth its weight in gold and an asset we'll deploy in every big game; it's not a marginalising quality that exists in a bubble like AWB being only halfway capable as a defender (great one on one, poor at other aspects of defending); what Fred does is pretty consummate; he shuts players of repute down.
Called this in the thread and got pelters, he is not a 6-8, he is a utility 10 who turns over the ball high up the pitch.
He’s still unreliable as an automatic starter. For every performance like last night there’s a god awful one to go with it.
It’s fun to watch when he’s on song though
It’s fun to watch when he’s on song though
The time has come where he needs to be acknowledged as an excellent player.
This notion that Fred blows hot and cold is ridiculous as it's not like he has long spells of bad form. He can have a poor game between decent and excellent games but he's always on song in a big game. This "shit one half and great second half" thing is because Fred never drops his head and can turn it around unlike many.
The keyword with Fred is when used in his correct position which haven't always happened because we've lacked midfielders and he has to play in a double pivot which is not his position.
He has always performed well when he has been given a run and shown his worth as a proper 90 minutes player. How does a "squad player" always start a big game and be a man of the match candidate every time?
This notion that Fred blows hot and cold is ridiculous as it's not like he has long spells of bad form. He can have a poor game between decent and excellent games but he's always on song in a big game. This "shit one half and great second half" thing is because Fred never drops his head and can turn it around unlike many.
The keyword with Fred is when used in his correct position which haven't always happened because we've lacked midfielders and he has to play in a double pivot which is not his position.
He has always performed well when he has been given a run and shown his worth as a proper 90 minutes player. How does a "squad player" always start a big game and be a man of the match candidate every time?
Even in the same game that is true. First half poor imo, second half immense. I do wander if with more training for the system, more automatic patterns and tactical discipline from all, in general some of his issues will be lessened.He’s still unreliable as an automatic starter. For every performance like last night there’s a god awful one to go with it.
It’s fun to watch when he’s on song though