Where does the future of Manchester United lie?

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

fair comments. so do you think we will become like Real or Barca? or you think we can keep this culture going on for long..

someone else said in here and i agree. that i think United is a business and one day we will have to do thing according to how to make profit and not according to what old generations fans think.

if stam's sale was purely for business purposes, then i think we are looking more like Real and Barca everyday.

i agree about the ticket prices and will take that back. bad research on my behalf.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Again, the perception you have of Madrid and Barcelona is way off.

First, both clubs operate at a loss. They're run by powerful presidents that behave despotically (Florentino Perez is not the norm btw), and have been able to put in money from dubious sources.

Secondly, we're years light ahead of them in marketing. Remember, Barca doesn't even have a sponsor in their shirt, Real just put one this year.

Thirdly, the majority of our players is British based and not Latin/Dutch.

Fourthly, Fergie would have been already been sacked in Spain. Our policy is (or at least has been) more long-term thinking, and less influenced by internal squabblings/politics inside the club.

I think ManUtd are the model that is being copied over, not the other way around.
 
Secondly, we're years light ahead of them in marketing. Remember, Barca doesn't even have a sponsor in their shirt, Real just put one this year.

<hr></blockquote>

I agree with your first point there, we are light years ahead of ANYONE in marketing terms. However, Barca don't have a sponsor, not through lack of marketing awareness, but becuase they fell their shirts are "too sacred" to be cheapened by a sponsor. Real went without a sponsor last year because it was the centenary year and they had a retro kit. They did advertise their website on the kits at one point though.

Just thought i'd clear that up. :)
 
I am of an opinion that Manchester United is slowly turning into the likes of Real and Barcelona.
1. We now buy only top notch player available in the market at the most expensive prices.


Not true. Big money transfers are not a new thing at United. We have broken the British transfer record and/or the club transfer record many times in the past 40 years to buy players such as Tommy Taylor, Harry Gregg (then a world record fee for a gk),Denis Law, Martin Buchan, Bryan Robson, Gary Birtles, Gary Pallister, Roy Keane, and Paul Ince.

In terms of getting in the big names, the important thing is value for money. Yes, Rio cost £15m more than he should have, but he's been brilliant for us, so money well spent. Same goes for RVN. The only player who hasn't given us value for money so far is Veron, but if we win the CL this season with Veron playing a pivotal part, then he too will have been money well spent.

As far as big-money buys versus youth is concerned, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. When we played with kids during the early/mid 90s and offloaded some big names, we were slammed for it. Now we get in big names in favour of youth, we are slammed for that! Can't win.

2. the board and the fans now demand more than just peace and steady growth the club. Trophies are now a must, nothing less is acceptable.

Again, not true. Frank O'Farrell, Dave Sexton and Ron Atkinson were all sacked because they couldn't deliver the success (or more specifically the League championship) that United had always craved. United fans have always wanted to win trohpies but - and I don't think I am generalising here - they have always wanted the team to win them in style.

3. The fan base is growing and the tickets to the matches are becoming very expensive. Our stamdium is slowly approaching the size of Nou Camp and Barnebeau (spelling?)

The United fan base has always been huge. In terms of ground capacity, at Old Trafford as at all league grounds, it went down greatly during the 90s due to all-seater requirements, although most clubs have been trying to increase this over the years by either re-building or moving to new stadia. Our capacity is still nowhere near what it used to be pre-90s.

Current ticket prices for members to attend a league match are £23.00-£27.00 and an LMTB is approx. £380-400 (I think).

4. The next manager in line for our club can be no one without a proven record. Our fans are expecting Hitzfeld or Capello to take over. Minority of the fans still see the likes of McClaren, O'Neill as possibilities but i have a feeling the board will not go for these unproven managers.

I believe the reason why the Board are nervous about appointing a young and/or inexperienced/unproven manager has to do with what happened in 1969. They appointed one of Busby's young coaches, Wilf McGuiness and it turned out to be a disaster. I have always thought that was why they did not want McClaren to take over when SAF was due originally to retire in 2002. It would have been exactly the same scenario - one of SAF's young coaches taking over from a legendary manager. Of course, there is every possibility that McClaren would have coped far better than his predecessor, but you can't really blame the Board for not wanting to tempt fate! That is why, I think, the Board want someone with experience initially, so they can cope with the inevitable turmoil of succeding SAF.
 
Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>
I am of an opinion that Manchester United is slowly turning into the likes of Real and Barcelona.
1. We now buy only top notch player available in the market at the most expensive prices.


Not true. Big money transfers are not a new thing at United. We have broken the British transfer record and/or the club transfer record many times in the past 40 years to buy players such as Tommy Taylor, Harry Gregg (then a world record fee for a gk),Denis Law, Martin Buchan, Bryan Robson, Gary Birtles, Gary Pallister, Roy Keane, and Paul Ince.

In terms of getting in the big names, the important thing is value for money. Yes, Rio cost £15m more than he should have, but he's been brilliant for us, so money well spent. Same goes for RVN. The only player who hasn't given us value for money so far is Veron, but if we win the CL this season with Veron playing a pivotal part, then he too will have been money well spent.

As far as big-money buys versus youth is concerned, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. When we played with kids during the early/mid 90s and offloaded some big names, we were slammed for it. Now we get in big names in favour of youth, we are slammed for that! Can't win.

2. the board and the fans now demand more than just peace and steady growth the club. Trophies are now a must, nothing less is acceptable.

Again, not true. Frank O'Farrell, Dave Sexton and Ron Atkinson were all sacked because they couldn't deliver the success (or more specifically the League championship) that United had always craved. United fans have always wanted to win trohpies but - and I don't think I am generalising here - they have always wanted the team to win them in style.

3. The fan base is growing and the tickets to the matches are becoming very expensive. Our stamdium is slowly approaching the size of Nou Camp and Barnebeau (spelling?)

The United fan base has always been huge. In terms of ground capacity, at Old Trafford as at all league grounds, it went down greatly during the 90s due to all-seater requirements, although most clubs have been trying to increase this over the years by either re-building or moving to new stadia. Our capacity is still nowhere near what it used to be pre-90s.

Current ticket prices for members to attend a league match are £23.00-£27.00 and an LMTB is approx. £380-400 (I think).

4. The next manager in line for our club can be no one without a proven record. Our fans are expecting Hitzfeld or Capello to take over. Minority of the fans still see the likes of McClaren, O'Neill as possibilities but i have a feeling the board will not go for these unproven managers.

I believe the reason why the Board are nervous about appointing a young and/or inexperienced/unproven manager has to do with what happened in 1969. They appointed one of Busby's young coaches, Wilf McGuiness and it turned out to be a disaster. I have always thought that was why they did not want McClaren to take over when SAF was due originally to retire in 2002. It would have been exactly the same scenario - one of SAF's young coaches taking over from a legendary manager. Of course, there is every possibility that McClaren would have coped far better than his predecessor, but you can't really blame the Board for not wanting to tempt fate! That is why, I think, the Board want someone with experience initially, so they can cope with the inevitable turmoil of succeding SAF.</strong><hr></blockquote>
All good points. However capacity at OT is now in excess of what was considered safe in the 1970's, standing capacity was 60,000 if I remember rightly, I remember standing in the Stretford Paddock [not far from where I sit now!] in electric crowds of 58-60K in those days. LMTB's are just the members ticket price multiplied by 19 matches, no discount sadly! But still good value compared to eg. Chelsea!!!!

I think as I've said above we need to continue the traditions of football with style and mixing youth with experience. Busby's methods still work and really that's what the true fans want more than anything. Sexton who you mention was sacked after winning seven straight games with some of the most boring football ever seen at OT, playing Steve Coppell effectively as a full back, so yeah we have to win and win with style.

Don't want much do we!!!
 
Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
only the old generation fans do not care about trophies IMO - thanx to the experience of the 70's and the 80's. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree. I think the older generation cared about trophies very much - more than the glory boys - it's just many older supporters pretend otherwise nowadays because they mistakenly believe it gives them some kind of 'real fan' kudos bullshit. They have been spoiled by success as much as anyone.

I think us older fans cared because going so many years without winning anything was horrible and depressing. Watching the scousers dominate was painful. Witness the agony of going so close, the joy when we won the Premiership for the first time, the love we all have for Cantona who made it all possible. And the respect we all have for Fergie who painfully put it all together.
 
Originally posted by nickm:
<strong>

I disagree. I think the older generation cared about trophies very much - more than the glory boys - it's just many older supporters pretend otherwise nowadays because they mistakenly believe it gives them some kind of 'real fan' kudos bullshit. They have been spoiled by success as much as anyone.

I think us older fans cared because going so many years without winning anything was horrible and depressing. Watching the scousers dominate was painful. Witness the agony of going so close, the joy when we won the Premiership for the first time, the love we all have for Cantona who made it all possible. And the respect we all have for Fergie who painfully put it all together.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, who said we don't care about trophies!!! We just care about the club more! It's a love thang. We love the club win, lose or draw. But we love it best when we win

:D
 
originally posted by kf:
However capacity at OT is now in excess of what was considered safe in the 1970's, standing capacity was 60,000 if I remember rightly, I remember standing in the Stretford Paddock [not far from where I sit now!] in electric crowds of 58-60K in those days.<hr></blockquote>

Of course, you are absolutely right. I think what I was trying to say - badly! - was that there is an impression that our capacity has been getting bigger and bigger, but all the rebuilding and the addition of the third tier has been to bring our capacity back to the level it used to be, although, as you say, we have now exceeded it. Would that be correct?

LMTB's are just the members ticket price multiplied by 19 matches, no discount sadly! <hr></blockquote>

Do you have an LMTB or have you progressed to an ST?!

Sexton who you mention was sacked after winning seven straight games with some of the most boring football ever seen at OT, playing Steve Coppell effectively as a full back, so yeah we have to win and win with style.<hr></blockquote>

Yes, he committed the dual sin - not only did fail to deliver the Holy Grail but he was soooo boring about it! Mind you Atko's teams were quite interesting - though mostly for their off the field antics!

Don't want much do we!!!<hr></blockquote>

Na, unlike the bindippers, we just have a low boredom threshold!!! :)
 
Originally posted by Suedesi:
<strong>

Why the likes of Madrid/Barcelona and not Bayern, Juventus or Milan???</strong><hr></blockquote>

for the reasons i mentioned.. those are valid for Barca and Real.. not Bayern, Juventus or Milan.. go read my post again.. you will find that they do not reflect the other three teams you mentioned.. or any other team.. and my question was whether any of us thought we will turn into Real or Barca.. i surely wouldn't mind if you started a thread asking if we would turn into any other team :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>

I believe the reason why the Board are nervous about appointing a young and/or inexperienced/unproven manager has to do with what happened in 1969. They appointed one of Busby's young coaches, Wilf McGuiness and it turned out to be a disaster. I have always thought that was why they did not want McClaren to take over when SAF was due originally to retire in 2002. It would have been exactly the same scenario - one of SAF's young coaches taking over from a legendary manager. Of course, there is every possibility that McClaren would have coped far better than his predecessor, but you can't really blame the Board for not wanting to tempt fate! That is why, I think, the Board want someone with experience initially, so they can cope with the inevitable turmoil of succeding SAF.</strong><hr></blockquote>

thanx again for being able to slam me on every points. seems like a usual thing for you! anyway, i appreciate the comments.. i don't think i have anything to counter so i'll leave it at that. :p
 
Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>

Do you have an LMTB or have you progressed to an ST?!

</strong><hr></blockquote>
Got lucky when they put the new stands up at either end they sold some of the tickets as LMTB's. They invited members who had been to some of the less popular games over the preceding 5 seasons (eg League Cup, CL qualifiers etc) to apply. I applied for me & 3 kids in the family stand as that's the only place they offered concessions for the kids thinking I wouldn't stand an earthly. Got a shock (both pleasant and unpleasant) when the credit card bill arrived and Utd had taken their wedge! Did have a LMTB in Sexton's last season but I had to let it go as I moved to London to work and couldn't get to the matches (I'm gonna get slated by some Cockney Reds now!)

:)
 
Originally posted by kf:
<strong>
Got lucky when they put the new stands up at either end they sold some of the tickets as LMTB's. They invited members who had been to some of the less popular games over the preceding 5 seasons (eg League Cup, CL qualifiers etc) to apply. I applied for me & 3 kids in the family stand as that's the only place they offered concessions for the kids thinking I wouldn't stand an earthly. Got a shock (both pleasant and unpleasant) when the credit card bill arrived and Utd had taken their wedge! Did have a LMTB in Sexton's last season but I had to let it go as I moved to London to work and couldn't get to the matches (I'm gonna get slated by some Cockney Reds now!)

:) </strong><hr></blockquote>

what's an LMTB? what's an ST? and what's wedge? and oh.. what's Cockney Reds?
 
LMTB = League Match Ticket Book, a sort of poor mans ST (Season Ticket) for which you have to pay a sizeable amount of hard earned cash (a wedge). Cockney Red, affectionate term for United supporters who come from what they imagine is the capital of England.
:D
 
Originally posted by RUnited:
thanx again for being able to slam me on every points. seems like a usual thing for you! anyway, i appreciate the comments.. i don't think i have anything to counter so i'll leave it at that. <hr></blockquote>

Sorry, I wasn't slamming you, just contradicting you. :)
 
Originally posted by kf:
<strong>LMTB = League Match Ticket Book, a sort of poor mans ST (Season Ticket) for which you have to pay a sizeable amount of hard earned cash (a wedge). Cockney Red, affectionate term for United supporters who come from what they imagine is the capital of England.
:D </strong><hr></blockquote>

didn't make your post become more understandable to me in anyway.. but thanks for the definitions anyhow!