Where does the future of Manchester United lie?

[RUnited]

I am of an opinion that Manchester United is slowly turning into the likes of Real and Barcelona.

1. We now buy only top notch player available in the market at the most expensive prices.

2. the board and the fans now demand more than just peace and steady growth the club. Trophies are now a must, nothing less is acceptable.

3. The fan base is growing and the tickets to the matches are becoming very expensive. Our stamdium is slowly approaching the size of Nou Camp and Barnebeau (spelling?)

4. The next manager in line for our club can be no one without a proven record. Our fans are expecting Hitzfeld or Capello to take over. Minority of the fans still see the likes of McClaren, O'Neill as possibilities but i have a feeling the board will not go for these unproven managers.

any disagreements? if you agree, please provide some more valid points to add to this list if possible.

 

[spinoza]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>I am of an opinion that Manchester United is slowly turning into the likes of Real and Barcelona.

1. We now buy only top notch player available in the market at the most expensive prices.

2. the board and the fans now demand more than just peace and steady growth the club. Trophies are now a must, nothing less is acceptable.

3. The fan base is growing and the tickets to the matches are becoming very expensive. Our stamdium is slowly approaching the size of Nou Camp and Barnebeau (spelling?)

4. The next manager in line for our club can be no one without a proven record. Our fans are expecting Hitzfeld or Capello to take over. Minority of the fans still see the likes of McClaren, O'Neill as possibilities but i have a feeling the board will not go for these unproven managers.

any disagreements? if you agree, please provide some more valid points to add to this list if possible.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good points. I hope we've got a far more fanatical fan base than REal or barca though.

 

[Julian Denny]

You have to remember that United is first and foremost a business, so whilst we would like to think we can just go out and buy the best in as many quantities as the manager dictates, this will not be the case. Kenyon quickly pulled the plug after the Rio signing when most observers felt that we needed a couple more. Fergie has been hamstrung these last few seasons in being unable to go out and get whoever he wanted whenever he wanted them. I'm not sure about Barca but certainly Real seem to have far less constraints and are quite happy to go into debt knowing that someone will bail them out. Unlike at United that is obviously not a proper business approach. Then again Peter Kenyon would argue that substantial sums have been made available over the last two years. The fact that the manager decided to spend the vast bulk of it on three players is his decision

 

[uranushk1]

Interesting post and some very vaild points. But instead of thinking more points to add to it, I am curious of know what is your conclusion/comment about it? Do you think it is a good thing or bad thing if we really seem to be walking on the same road as Real or Barca?

 

[Wibble]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>I am of an opinion that Manchester United is slowly turning into the likes of Real and Barcelona.

1. We now buy only top notch player available in the market at the most expensive prices.</strong>

We only but the most expensive players now do we? You mean we have finally realised that to get the best you have to pay? How many really expensive players have we bought? Stam but made a profit on an ageing slowing defender. Veron and Rio are the only other two? Hardly the only playrs we have baought and sold are they? And after so many years of fans whinging about the PLC not opening the purse strings we now hear whinging because they have

<strong> the board and the fans now demand more than just peace and steady growth the club. Trophies are now a must, nothing less is acceptable.</strong>

This the unreasonable whinging on here.

<strong>3. The fan base is growing and the tickets to the matches are becoming very expensive. Our stamdium is slowly approaching the size of Nou Camp and Barnebeau (spelling?)</strong>

I think you will find that match tickets aren't bad value in comparison to other PL clubs.

<strong>4. The next manager in line for our club can be no one without a proven record. Our fans are expecting Hitzfeld or Capello to take over. Minority of the fans still see the likes of McClaren, O'Neill as possibilities but i have a feeling the board will not go for these unproven managers.</strong>

I think that you would find that a majority of fans would very much like McClaren of O'Neil instead of some dinosaur.<hr></blockquote>

 

[$ukhjit]

Originally posted by uranushk1:

Interesting post and some very vaild points. But instead of thinking more points to add to it, I am curious of know what is your conclusion/comment about it? Do you think it is a good thing or bad thing if we really seem to be walking on the same road as Real or Barca?

<hr></blockquote>

I depends, if you are talking about Real Madrid then it should lead us to being successful. I know RUnited was talking about off the field characteristics but in terms of success, maybe we might end of wanting to be winners of the European Cup instead of doing well domestically, which I think is devastating. I wouldn't mind having a fan base and being like Madrid but success is important to the fans but I think it will end up being that United do become like Madrid and Barcelona. Barcelona seem to have lost it in the Spanish League and aint as successful as before but they have great talent. United will end up being something used for profit purposes and us fans will find it hard to take, you wait and see.

 

[kf]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>I am of an opinion that Manchester United is slowly turning into the likes of Real and Barcelona.

... been like that for years, "... Barcelona, Real Madrid, they will make a gallant bid..."

1. We now buy only top notch player available in the market at the most expensive prices.

The youth system is very important - this is a key thing in the Fergie succession. The club needs to have a mix of good home grown talent with an emotional attachment to the club and the best international players.

2. the board and the fans now demand more than just peace and steady growth the club. Trophies are now a must, nothing less is acceptable.

This is of course unreasonable but in some quarters true.

3. The fan base is growing and the tickets to the matches are becoming very expensive. Our stamdium is slowly approaching the size of Nou Camp and Barnebeau (spelling?)

To be fair to United, the tickets are amongst the cheapest in the Premiership. The capacity constraints are there for all to see but the number of prawn munchers who get tickets is an issue. Still, we've got to pay Keano's wages somehow!

4. The next manager in line for our club can be no one without a proven record. Our fans are expecting Hitzfeld or Capello to take over. Minority of the fans still see the likes of McClaren, O'Neill as possibilities but i have a feeling the board will not go for these unproven managers.

I'm not sure about this. I would have preferred to have someone working alongside Ferguson by now. Kiddo clearly wasn't up to it but Maclaren might have been. I go back to the need to understand our youth policy. Will someone used to managing Barca or Real understand that when they've been used to going out and buying 2 or 3 big names every close season?

any disagreements? if you agree, please provide some more valid points to add to this list if possible.</strong><hr></blockquote>

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Wibble:
[QB][/QB]<hr></blockquote>

fair comments. so do you think we will become like Real or Barca? or you think we can keep this culture going on for long..

someone else said in here and i agree. that i think United is a business and one day we will have to do thing according to how to make profit and not according to what old generations fans think.

if stam's sale was purely for business purposes, then i think we are looking more like Real and Barca everyday.

i agree about the ticket prices and will take that back. bad research on my behalf.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>Interesting post and some very vaild points. But instead of thinking more points to add to it, I am curious of know what is your conclusion/comment about it? Do you think it is a good thing or bad thing if we really seem to be walking on the same road as Real or Barca?</strong><hr></blockquote>

i'm not sure really.. that's why i posted this post.. i wanted some opinions and what people thought..

the best i can do this:

i think it will be good for the business sake of the club, but probably not for the old generation fans who suffered with the team through the 70's and the 80's.. they will have adapt a lot to get along with the team's objectives for the future - which is to make money and not just play beautiful footie.

 

[blythy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>1. We now buy only top notch player available in the market at the most expensive prices.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ricardo, Steele, Forlan (to a certain extent)...

<strong>

2. the board and the fans now demand more than just peace and steady growth the club. Trophies are now a must, nothing less is acceptable.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure that's true. Only certain sections of our 'fans' 'demand' trophies. The rest just want to see the club do as well as possible.

<strong>

3. The fan base is growing and the tickets to the matches are becoming very expensive. Our stamdium is slowly approaching the size of Nou Camp and Barnebeau (spelling?)
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think there is a problem with the fan-base. If anything, we've lost a few of the glory-boys. Ticket prices, although expensive, are fairly average.

<strong>

4. The next manager in line for our club can be no one without a proven record. Our fans are expecting Hitzfeld or Capello to take over. Minority of the fans still see the likes of McClaren, O'Neill as possibilities but i have a feeling the board will not go for these unproven managers.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Who knows

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>You have to remember that United is first and foremost a business, so whilst we would like to think we can just go out and buy the best in as many quantities as the manager dictates, this will not be the case. Kenyon quickly pulled the plug after the Rio signing when most observers felt that we needed a couple more. Fergie has been hamstrung these last few seasons in being unable to go out and get whoever he wanted whenever he wanted them. I'm not sure about Barca but certainly Real seem to have far less constraints and are quite happy to go into debt knowing that someone will bail them out. Unlike at United that is obviously not a proper business approach. Then again Peter Kenyon would argue that substantial sums have been made available over the last two years. The fact that the manager decided to spend the vast bulk of it on three players is his decision</strong><hr></blockquote>

we have in fact spend shit load of money in the past couple of seasons.. and in pretty much the same manner as Real.. only they're spending 50m a season and we are spending somewhat 20% lower. we are still looking to add strength in depth and i think as soon as we get this depth we will go back to buying the best at the expensive prices again.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by $ukhjit:
<strong>

I depends, if you are talking about Real Madrid then it should lead us to being successful. I know RUnited was talking about off the field characteristics but in terms of success, maybe we might end of wanting to be winners of the European Cup instead of doing well domestically, which I think is devastating. I wouldn't mind having a fan base and being like Madrid but success is important to the fans but I think it will end up being that United do become like Madrid and Barcelona. Barcelona seem to have lost it in the Spanish League and aint as successful as before but they have great talent. United will end up being something used for profit purposes and us fans will find it hard to take, you wait and see.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i agree with your conclusions.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by kf:
[QB][/QB]<hr></blockquote>

but eventually i feel we won't be relying so much on the youth system.. its importance will eventually be lower at the rate we're going at acquiring foreign talent.. we're looking at Mexes, Shevchenko, Chivu, Duff, and a couple more.. i feel these players will eventually end up at United and so give less chances to the kids.

i apologize for the tickets comments. my bad research.

about the manager.. i know what you mean about Kidd, and O'Neill.. but i certainly don't see Peter Kenyon seeing it this way. IMO he's a business man and whoever he selects it will have to be good business. i think we are becoming like Real and Barcelona in a sense that the board will not trust anyone without a proven record..

i think this will become a very big issue when SAF steps down - whether to hire someone within the UK and continue the traditions and the culture or to bring in some proven manager for the perceived immediate success of the team.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by blythy:


Ricardo, Steele, Forlan (to a certain extent)...


<hr></blockquote>

i did answer to this one to someone else in this thread, but i'll say it again anyway. i think we're lacking in depth that's why we're still buying cheaper players from outside the country. eventually the youth will be used as a backup team and we will go on to concentrate on the star players. all the money will be used to obtain these stars once we have enough depth in the squad.

Real have about 27 first team players in their team, and not all of them are super stars.. but thinking back you'll realize that they have many of these players for years and they never sold anyone.. since they had about 20 first team players they have only bought super stars at ridiculous prices.. i think we're getting there too..

I'm not sure that's true. Only certain sections of our 'fans' 'demand' trophies. The rest just want to see the club do as well as possible

<hr></blockquote>

it will be the PLC that demands it. and once the fans get used to winning, they'll not want to see us lose again.

only the old generation fans do not care about trophies IMO - thanx to the experience of the 70's and the 80's. Real and Barca have always been successful.. so IMO if we go on another decade with a lot of trophies then our new generation fans will turn into somewhat like the Real and Barca fans.. - you understand my point?

 

[Penny]

I only want to comment on the TRANSFER issues ... Well, I think for ManUtd for one we "shouldn't" concentrate in buying EXPENSIVE !! ... well, I have to point out here - EXPENSIVE doesn't mean SUPERSTAR !! <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> The MOST valid example on this is NONE other than Eric's .. got it ?!

I think first and foremost - it should be still the SQUAD first and everything else second ... We see how thin we are this year when injuries plueqed .. 2 big big IF here :
(1) IF we have been a bit patient with certain departing players
(2) IF we have spent the $ better ...

Ok ok ... I am not getting into any Veron debate here ... I am a neutral guy here on Veron ... What I trying to say is - we really look pale when compare to our opposition in terms of transfer lately ... We shouldn't continue doing this - just too big a gamble, physically and phycologically ... Youth should be what we need to look at - give them chances come on !! .. that's how our club has been build on and it should continue to be ... <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />

 

[MancFanFromManc]

We have a very stable platform for Man Utd the business.

Fortunately football matters still govern our overall success. All the merchandising in the world in no good without a winning team

Manchester United will always always always be about the following:

Entertaining, attacking football
Competing for every trophy
A couple of pin ups for the ladies
And promising local talent coming thru <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />

 

[kf]

I don't think it's realistic to expect us to compete with Real on a financial basis. United are much touted as the richest club in the world but we have to operate on a commercial basis. Real get their debts effectively written off by eg selling their training ground for zillions more than it's really worth. That's why the youth policy is and will continue to be important. I'm sure the board and Kenyon in particular understands this. Any new manager will need to:

i) understand the traditions of the club in terms of the style of football we play
ii) maintain the youth policy and be capable of working with young players to develop them into the Beckhams & Giggs of the future

 

[MancFanFromManc]

Originally posted by Penny:
<strong>I only want to comment on the TRANSFER issues ... Well, I think for ManUtd for one we "shouldn't" concentrate in buying EXPENSIVE !! ... well, I have to point out here - EXPENSIVE doesn't mean SUPERSTAR !! <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> The MOST valid example on this is NONE other than Eric's .. got it ?!

I think first and foremost - it should be still the SQUAD first and everything else second ... We see how thin we are this year when injuries plueqed .. 2 big big IF here :
(1) IF we have been a bit patient with certain departing players
(2) IF we have spent the $ better ...

Ok ok ... I am not getting into any Veron debate here ... I am a neutral guy here on Veron ... What I trying to say is - we really look pale when compare to our opposition in terms of transfer lately ... We shouldn't continue doing this - just too big a gamble, physically and phycologically ... Youth should be what we need to look at - give them chances come on !! .. that's how our club has been build on and it should continue to be ... <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Penny

Its surely not as simple as that. Had we bought 5 unknowns in the summer (ala the Poo) the fans would have been up in arms. 'We' demanded a big name center half - and thats what we got. We best in the business too IMO.

Whilst I agree that we have to bring thru home grown talent, that's a seperate issue to strengthening our squad. Our challengers are trying to catch up. They can afford to gamble. We are the best, so only the best players can improve our squad.

(end of lecture )

 

[andy27457]

The changes are inevitable, to some degree!
The crop of kids that came through in the'90's was exceptional, and it is unreasonable to expect this to be repeated. So if we want to stay on top, and compete with Real, and Barca, we have to go out & buy quality, which costs.
As well as this, Europe is becoming more important with each season, both financially, and prestige wise. IMO, a European League is inevitable, and is not too far in the future, and we MUST be part of it.
As far as prices are concerned, they are pretty reasonable compared to some far less successful clubs. People will pay to see a successful side!

 

[Julian Denny]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

only the old generation fans do not care about trophies IMO - thanx to the experience of the 70's and the 80's. Real and Barca have always been successful.. so IMO if we go on another decade with a lot of trophies then our new generation fans will turn into somewhat like the Real and Barca fans.. - you understand my point?</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's not correct. Every fanin his or her right mind and of whatever vintage wants the success to continue. The Club is gigantic on a global scale with huge expectations and indeed overheads. On going success in one form or another is synonymous with the future stability and stature of the Club and by extension the fans, shareholders and all other interested parties.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by MancFanFromManc:
<strong>

Our challengers are trying to catch up. They can afford to gamble. We are the best, so only the best players can improve our squad.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

execellent point. i agree with this 100%. there is no room for us to experiment if we want to keep being at number 1.

we will have to acquire the best, keep them playing well and in the mean time develop home grown talents.. i don't see us using home grown talents full (like the becks, scholes generation)for atleast 5-10 more years.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by kf:
<strong>ii) maintain the youth policy and be capable of working with young players to develop them into the Beckhams & Giggs of the future</strong><hr></blockquote>

that is going to get increasing troubling if we want to remain at the top and be the best in Europe.. when we were developing Becks, Scholes, etc. we were not the top in Europe.. it's only when they became stars that we finally made it. so if we want to keep the youth system as priority then i foresee us going into a vicious cycle that will bring us down and become trophyless for a few more seasons. we will come back very strongly in 5 years time.

but do you think that's possible? with the current financial situation and the wages being paid, we cannot afford one more season without a trophy.. that's i why i think we will have to keep buying the best in order to keep the success rolling until we can unveil a new set of youngsters.. by that time we will be flogged with highly paid players who will demand to play 40-50 games a season and our youth will not get so much chance anymore.. am i confusing you?

 

[kf]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

execellent point. i agree with this 100%. there is no room for us to experiment if we want to keep being at number 1.

we will have to acquire the best, keep them playing well and in the mean time develop home grown talents.. i don't see us using home grown talents full (like the becks, scholes generation)for atleast 5-10 more years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
We can't buy the whole squad, it isn't viable and what's more in United's experience it doesn't work. In the 70's and 80's successive managers at OT tried and failed to buy success in the league. We won the FA Cup a few times but never really got close to the Championship. Meanwhile, Liverpool were dominating with an essentially Scouse side added to by one big name signing a year (Dalglish was a good example). The only club in my experience which has been successful without paying attention to developing its own players is the current Arsenal side, and they aren't as successful as we have been.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>

That's not correct. Every fanin his or her right mind and of whatever vintage wants the success to continue. The Club is gigantic on a global scale with huge expectations and indeed overheads. On going success in one form or another is synonymous with the future stability and stature of the Club and by extension the fans, shareholders and all other interested parties.</strong><hr></blockquote>

my point was that our older generation fans can always look back to the 70's and 80's and calm themselves down. Barca and Real fans have nothing to look back on because they always been very successful.. there may have been some dark periods, but were all too short to be remembered by fans who have become accustomed the winning.

same goes with us. i'm a fan of 11 years and all i have seen since i started to support the team is success.. i didn't start of supporting this team because it was winning - i started when the Arse won the league. but i only have that 1 particular year to look back on - when SAF was almost fired. since then we have won about 20 trophies and i'm very much used to it. i think a lot of fans my age would say the same thing. it doesn't make us gloryhunters or prawn sandwiches munchers.. but the fact that SAF has built such a successful team we sort of expect it to continue.. and i think the PLC will concur with too.

 

[Julian Denny]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

execellent point. i agree with this 100%. there is no room for us to experiment if we want to keep being at number 1.

we will have to acquire the best, keep them playing well and in the mean time develop home grown talents.. i don't see us using home grown talents full (like the becks, scholes generation)for atleast 5-10 more years.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The praticalities from a business point of view will dictate. We could not afford Zidane or Rivaldo when Fergie wanted to buy them. The money available will be limited but then again apart from a Club such as Real who seem to have any amount of gratuitous cash available, the day may be fast approaching, indeed may well have arrived, when Clubs will not be able to afford the current transfer fees and wages any longer. This may open the door for us, as a very viable business, to obtain the best as and when needed within our own financial constraints.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by kf:
<strong>
We can't buy the whole squad, it isn't viable and what's more in United's experience it doesn't work. In the 70's and 80's successive managers at OT tried and failed to buy success in the league. We won the FA Cup a few times but never really got close to the Championship. Meanwhile, Liverpool were dominating with an essentially Scouse side added to by one big name signing a year (Dalglish was a good example). The only club in my experience which has been successful without paying attention to developing its own players is the current Arsenal side, and they aren't as successful as we have been.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i take your point and agree about Arsenal also.. along the road i see Arsenal suffering because of lack of youth development too.

but like i said, we will turn into Real and Barca because we will eventually be signing ONE big name a year at over-paid prices. this will happen as soon as our squad become big enough that we will not need 3-4 players a year. this will also happen when we don't offload players like we do now.. SAF likes to offload unwanted players, but truth is, we can keep them for rotation purposes like Real does. and i see this happening under the new manager too.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>

The praticalities from a business point of view will dictate. We could not afford Zidane or Rivaldo when Fergie wanted to buy them. The money available will be limited but then again apart from a Club such as Real who seem to have any amount of gratuitous cash available, the day may be fast approaching, indeed may well have arrived, when Clubs will not be able to afford the current transfer fees and wages any longer. This may open the door for us, as a very viable business, to obtain the best as and when needed within our own financial constraints.</strong><hr></blockquote>

IMO our money men are geniuses.. i think we are probably a club with the most solid financial plans for the future. i think we will become like Real eventually but only with better backing financially where we do not have to depend on 'gratuitous cash'.

Zidane and Rivaldo were on sale ridiculous prices IMO. only Real were capable of taking them. i didn't see anyone else being able to afford them at the price either. we were probably the closest rivals.

 

[kf]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

SAF likes to offload unwanted players, but truth is, we can keep them for rotation purposes like Real does. and i see this happening under the new manager too.</strong><hr></blockquote>
We have to accept when players want to leave and try to replace them. Two key players who would be very useful to us at the moment are Teddy and Andy Cole. Someone (I doubt it was SAF) didn't want to offer Teddy a two year deal so he went to Spurs. I think SAF made an emotional decision with Andy Cole and let him go 'cos Andy thought he could make the World Cup and SAF didn't want to stand in his way, on this I think he was wrong but I understand why he did it. Yorkie had one fab season and then turned into a liability so he had to go, he wasn't working hard enough.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by kf:
<strong>
We have to accept when players want to leave and try to replace them. Two key players who would be very useful to us at the moment are Teddy and Andy Cole. Someone (I doubt it was SAF) didn't want to offer Teddy a two year deal so he went to Spurs. I think SAF made an emotional decision with Andy Cole and let him go 'cos Andy thought he could make the World Cup and SAF didn't want to stand in his way, on this I think he was wrong but I understand why he did it. Yorkie had one fab season and then turned into a liability so he had to go, he wasn't working hard enough.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i understand your points and that's why i said i don't think we have enough depth.. but the moment we do, we will be signing one over-paid player a year..

about sheringham, i thought it was ridiculous we didn't offer him a new contract, even if it was for two years.. he was more than happy to sit on the bench.. and oh how much he would be providing now.. (he would have been in his second year of the new contract right?)

he's doing wonders at Spurs again and doesn't seem to mind being taken off after 70-75 minutes either.. i think he would have been worth every penny on his wages..

that's why i am all for Di Canio.. even at 80,000 a week for 2 years.. at that price and with that experience.. i think it will be worth it. we won't be breaking the wage structuce either.. because he will only be here two years.. so we can certainly make an exception IMO.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

about sheringham, i thought it was ridiculous we didn't offer him a new contract, even if it was for two years.. he was more than happy to sit on the bench.. and oh how much he would be providing now.. (he would have been in his second year of the new contract right?)

he's doing wonders at Spurs again and doesn't seem to mind being taken off after 70-75 minutes either.. i think he would have been worth every penny on his wages..

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think Teddy is doing quite as well this year, but I still think he would have been a good squad member.

Two years wasn't a lot to ask - especially as Fergie had the 4-4-1-1 formation in mind, and already had the player here to fulfil it.

 

[kf]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

about sheringham, ...
he's doing wonders at Spurs again and doesn't seem to mind being taken off after 70-75 minutes either.. i think he would have been worth every penny on his wages..

that's why i am all for Di Canio.. even at 80,000 a week for 2 years.. at that price and with that experience.. i think it will be worth it. we won't be breaking the wage structuce either.. because he will only be here two years.. so we can certainly make an exception IMO.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree about Teddy although there were a few Spurs fans on 5Live at the weekend saying he's not cutting it anymore. Getting a bit of the thread but I would be happy with Di Canio although I don't think he would solve the real problem we've got, he wouldn't be a replacement for Ruud when he's injured. IMO we need someone who can hold the ball and link the play when under pressure from meaty centre backs (ie Ruudy's twin or something! Do you think we can get Andy Cole back??) It was so good to see him back on Saturday, obviously not fully match fit but he made such a difference to our play.

 

[MancFanFromManc]

Nah, PDC isnt the answer. Lets invest in some 20ish year old hotshot. Its a 4th striker we need remember. Someone who can be blooded gentley.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by kf:
<strong>

I agree about Teddy although there were a few Spurs fans on 5Live at the weekend saying he's not cutting it anymore. Getting a bit of the thread but I would be happy with Di Canio although I don't think he would solve the real problem we've got, he wouldn't be a replacement for Ruud when he's injured. IMO we need someone who can hold the ball and link the play when under pressure from meaty centre backs (ie Ruudy's twin or something! Do you think we can get Andy Cole back??) It was so good to see him back on Saturday, obviously not fully match fit but he made such a difference to our play.</strong><hr></blockquote>

ruud started the excellent 'up, back, and through' play superbly (is that what it's called? the first play that launched Phil to get the score) so i think his come back has made a big impact.

if you want to draw back to the topic then i can say that i think we need another big signing up front who can partner Ruud.. at the end of the season i'm predicting that Ronaldinho or Duff will grace Old Trafford.. and i think they will both cost atleast 15-20m.. there goes another big signing slot for next season

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by MancFanFromManc:
<strong>Nah, PDC isnt the answer. Lets invest in some 20ish year old hotshot. Its a 4th striker we need remember. Someone who can be blooded gentley.</strong><hr></blockquote>

exactly my point.. we will keep buying superstars or superpotential at ridiculous prices.. when talkin about a hotshot 20 yr old.. Cisse comes to mind and he's going to cost a fortune!

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

I don't think Teddy is doing quite as well this year, but I still think he would have been a good squad member.

Two years wasn't a lot to ask - especially as Fergie had the 4-4-1-1 formation in mind, and already had the player here to fulfil it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

exactly.. this is what's causing our depth to become so thin these days.. we offload whenever we can to cut the wages down.. when it shouldn't be the case.. we're suffering so much because of it..

i think the board will have to realize this soon and starting keeping the depth at an acceptable level before deciding to offload one more person.

 

[Wibble]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

fair comments. so do you think we will become like Real or Barca? or you think we can keep this culture going on for long..

someone else said in here and i agree. that i think United is a business and one day we will have to do thing according to how to make profit and not according to what old generations fans think.

if stam's sale was purely for business purposes, then i think we are looking more like Real and Barca everyday.

i agree about the ticket prices and will take that back. bad research on my behalf.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think we will ever flash out as much cash as Real because we are a PLC. The shareholders want success and profit.

Although we could never have afforded Veron or Rio without the PLC who seem to be doing a great job in most areas these days.

I don't think Stam was JUST business. I think that Fergie recognised that he was a spent force or at least not a patch on the player he used to be. The book (or even the drugs issue) and the silly offer from Lazio probably swung the deal. We have sold better players than Stam for good money and particulalry if they were being disruptive - Ince and Kanchelskis (McGrath and Whiteside??) spring to mind

 

[Wibble]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

I don't think Teddy is doing quite as well this year, but I still think he would have been a good squad member.

Two years wasn't a lot to ask - especially as Fergie had the 4-4-1-1 formation in mind, and already had the player here to fulfil it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I got the impression that it was a close call. But with 5 seemingly great strikers on the books it didn't seem much of a risk at the time. In retrospect it seems like a mistake.

 

[kf]

Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>

I got the impression that it was a close call. But with 5 seemingly great strikers on the books it didn't seem much of a risk at the time. In retrospect it seems like a mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think letting Cole go was a mistake albeit for the right sort of reasons. Andy was desperate to get to the World Cup. And what about Yorkie, suddenly discovered how to run again at Blackburn, still at least he scored against the Arse!

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by kf:
<strong>

I think letting Cole go was a mistake albeit for the right sort of reasons. Andy was desperate to get to the World Cup. And what about Yorkie, suddenly discovered how to run again at Blackburn, still at least he scored against the Arse!</strong><hr></blockquote>

i think both Yorke and Cole knew they weren't going to be first team players anymore.. in light of Fergie's announced 4-4-1-1 plan and the introduction of RVN. Cole, Yorke, Ole, and RVN could not possibly be used to in just 1 slot.. no matter how many times to rotate around you'll find yourself hurting 2-3 players.

IMO we adapted to 4-4-1-1 too suddenly and we made sales that were needed at the time, but now we realized it was a mistake.

SAF doesn't like whingners i think this was why he sold those players.. he couldn't live with cole begging for a place and certainly couldn't live with Yorke.. and then there was stam.. and ince.. and whiteside?

clubs like Real and Barca tend not to care much about plaeyers feelings and concentrate on getting the job done rather than messing about in the transfer market.. they make solid buys every year and have a solid looking team every year. i think we should atleast approach this in our style of management..

 

[Suedesi]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>I am of an opinion that Manchester United is slowly turning into the likes of Real and Barcelona.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why the likes of Madrid/Barcelona and not Bayern, Juventus or Milan???